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*** Send Everywhere! *** An Inconvenient Question! We’ve all seen the emails about Obama’s citizenship. This Is A New Twist!

AN INCONVENIENT QUESTION!

*** SEND EVERYWHERE! ***

We’ve all seen the emails about Obama’s citizenship. This is a new twist WE hadn’t known, or yet considered:

More questions, and this time some good questions.

While I've little interest in getting in the middle of the Obama birth issue, Paul Hollrah over at FSM did so yesterday and believes the issue can be resolved by Obama answering one si mple question: What passport did he use when he was shuttling between New York, Jakarta, and Karachi?

So how did a young man who arrived in New York in early June 1981, without the price of a hotel room in his pocket, suddenly come up with the price of a round-the-world trip just a month later? And once he was on a plane, shuttling between New York , Jakarta , and Karachi , what passport was he offering when he passed through Customs and Immigration? The American people not only deserve to have answers to these questions, they must have answers.

It makes the debate over Obama's citizenship a rather short and simple one.

Q: Did he travel to Pakistan in 1981 (at age 20)?
A: Yes, by his own admission.

Q: What passport did he travel under?
A: There are only three possibilities. 1. He traveled with a U.S. Passport, 2) He traveled with a British passport, or 3) He traveled with an Indonesia passport.

Q: Is it possible that Obama traveled with a U.S. Passport in 1981?
A: No. It is not possible. Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department's "no travel" list in 1981.

Conclusion: When Obama went to Pakistan in 1981 he was traveling either with a British passport or an Indonesian passport.

If he was traveling with a British passport that would provide creditable evidence or proof that he was born in Kenya on August 4, 1961, not in Hawaii as he claims. And if he was traveling with an Indonesian passport that would tend to prove that he relinquished whatever previous citizenship he held, British or American, prior to being adopted by his Indonesian step-father in 1967.

Whatever the truth of the matter the American people need to know how he managed to become a "natural born" American citizen between 1981 and 2008.. Given the destructive nature of his plans for America, as illustrated by his speech before Congress and the "unsustainable" spending plan he has presented, the soonr we learn the truth of all this, the better.

Count me in as one of those inquiring minds who'd at least like to know the answers to these easily answered questions [or maybe HILLARY over at the State Department could just check the records established] !

What is proved by the record ought not to be denied {Quod per recordum probatum, non debet esse negatum};

Records are vestiges of antiquity and truth {Recorda sunt vestigia vetustatis et veritatis};

We still try the record, and not the case. Report of the American Bar Association, Vol. 29, part 1, page 413 (ABA 1906);

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AKA German sleeper agent

AKA German sleeper agent and secret son of Malcolm X

http://octaman.com/comments/MalcolmO.html

http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/?page_id=284

cque

The problem with your theory is that

Americans could fly to Pakistan and enter with a US Passport in 1981. I did, and again in 1986.

Free and Brave
or Cradle to Grave
You can't have both

Free and Brave
or Cradle to Grave
You can't have both

The point is...

There are a number of ways Obama could not be eligible, any one of them sounds plausible if you read up on the claims. All of them put together raises some serious doubt and will cloud Obama's administration for years to come. You can argue the details till you're blue in the face, but this needs to be resolved in a way that satisfies everyone, soon!

HA HA HA HA

IT ALWAYS FREAKS ME OUT HOW MANY DPRS THINK THE LAW WILL SAVE THEM,
im mean.......really ........you guys, really, you think the mans gonna save you from the man??????

..............i mean thats like asking the man for a new
911 investiga.......oh wait?!

WE ARE ALL 9/11 Lessons From Star Trek-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CyjD6Ulf6s&feature=channel_page

'9/11 Conspiracy Theories Ridiculous' - Al Qaeda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_OIXfkXEj0&feature=dir
B.R.O * M.I.K.E.

9/11 Lessons From Star Trek-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CyjD6Ulf6s&feature=channel_page

'9/11 Conspiracy Theories Ridiculous' - Al Qaeda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_OIXfkXEj0&feature=dir
B.R.O * M.I.K.E.

"So how did a young man who arrived in New York in early June

1981, without the price of a hotel room in his pocket, suddenly come up with the price of a round-the-world trip just a month later?"

It's called a round-the-world ticket and would fit the itinerary you have given. They aren't much more expensive than your standard long-haul return flight and are often used by students and backpackers.

US-Pakistan Relations:

"In the mid-1970s, new strains arose over Pakistan’s efforts to respond to India’s 1974 underground nuclear test by seeking its own nuclear weapons capability. U.S. aid was suspended by President Jimmy Carter in 1979 in response to Pakistan’s covert construction of a uranium enrichment facility. However, following the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan later that year, Pakistan again was viewed as a frontline ally in the effort to block Soviet expansionism. In 1981, the Reagan Administration pledged for Islamabad a five-year, $3.2 billion aid package. Pakistan became a key transit country for arms supplies to the Afghan resistance, as well as home for millions of Afghan refugees, many of whom have yet to return." www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33498.pdf

No mention of travel restrictions. By late 1979, the US and Pakistan were allies and there wouldn't have been any problems for a US citizen to travel there.

"And if he was traveling with an Indonesian passport that would tend to prove that he relinquished whatever previous citizenship he held, British or American, prior to being adopted by his Indonesian step-father in 1967."

Show me the Indonesian law that says little Obama couldn't keep his US citizenship upon adoption. Show me the document from the US stripping Barackie of his American citizenship way back when.

A president needs to be native born but, I would think, could renounce a citizenship granted to him through, say, the marriage of his mother to a foreign national or adoption. He would simply need to renounce that citizenship prior to taking office.

Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!

TO be Pres.means AMERICAN breed, born ,raised & natural

There you go using the TERM; native born , WRONG... The TERM is NATURAL born... Please get your fact straight on this important subject..
you-no

here is your word for today

LIKE the word, natural = taken for granted, undisputable, unequiviical, positivly , no question of aliegence .
you-no

Why?

Why are people making the claim that Maya, Obama's sister, had a Hawaiian certificate of live birth too.

Does anyone have any proof to back this claim up?

northstar's picture

Interesting blog post

Joe the farmer who wrote this is probably kicking himself for associating his name with Joe the plumber lol

1. Under Hawaiian law, it is possible (both legally and illegally) for a person to have been born out of state, yet have a birth certificate on file in the Department of Health.

A. From Hawaii's official Department of Health, Vital Records webpage: "Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country" (applies to adopted children).

B. A parent may register an in-state birth in lieu of certification by a hospital of birth under HRS 338-5.

C. Hawaiian law expressly provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8. A foreign birth presumably would have been recorded by the American consular of the country of birth, and presumably that would be reflected on the Hawaiian birth certificate.

D. Hawaiian law, however, expressly acknowledges that its system is subject to error. See, for example, HRS 338-17.

E. Hawaiian law expressly provides for verification in lieu of certified copy of a birth certificate under HRS 338-14.3.

F. Even the Hawaii Department of Home Lands does not accept a certified copy of a birth certificate as conclusive evidence for its homestead program. From its web site: "In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL."

Much more at: http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/11/why_the_barack_obama_...

Real eyes realize real lies

We want our country back

Every year is a year for Ron Paul!

You should be building a network for the coming collapse

How long do you think the US is going to be able to carry the debt of all of the states and all of the banks and businesses?

We have dropout rates over 70% in many cities across this crap-hole country.

Those people are going to become nothing but criminals or enforcers (state sanctioned criminals).

We've fallen down the hole to Hell and fire is getting brighter.

Politics is just a show to distract you from the real world.

Might as well be wasting your time following a sports team or watching American Idol.

It's the Rs VS the Ds and darkhorse 3rd party (Ron Paul/libertarian/etc) thrown in for fun.

============================

Glen Beck -- An Exposed Enemy:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/90198
Glenn Beck Supports NAFTA and taking your job:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/86643

============================

Glen Beck -- An Exposed Enemy:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/90198
Glenn Beck Supports NAFTA and taking your job:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/86643

You got that right

Hard to face, but so true. Politics is a game just like football. It is played to keep us occupied while the real mess goes on without our knowledge. Even naming the real mess gets denials and ridicule from most people today.

"No Travel List"???

Where can we find info on Pakistan being on the "no fly list"? As far as I know, this has never been true.

What about passport requirements? Sure, Pakistan requires a passport for Americans to enter now... But what about in 1981? When you are issued a passport it's not specific but general for travels to anywhere...So he could have had a passport for several years prior.

I think our Brain trust

Is confusing passports with visa's

let's see it

I want to see Obama's sisters certificate of live birth from Hawaii.

I'm a skeptic but show me...

aka: German sleeper agent

aka: German sleeper agent and the secret son of malcolm x
see links below

http://octaman.com/comments/MalcolmO.html

http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/?page_id=284

cque

question

Can anyone verify that Obama's sister was not born in the U.S. AND that she has a certificate of live birth like Barack?

I've seen this claim but can anyone back it up?

Also:

This liberal blogger attacking Ron Paul for supporting military tribunals.

If anyone is capable of rebuking please post.

The quickest one... himself.

According to sources cited in Wikipedia, as well as Obama's memoir, Dreams of My Father, Maya Soetoro is Obama's half sister who was born in Indonesia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_Soetoro-Ng

~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~

Several independent studies say

that it is Maya's certification of live birth in Hawaii which was used as a template for Obama's forged one. See:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2056802/posts

Also, you might want to view
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHwxk7ljJBE&feature=related

It only gets more and more curious...and I think the American people deserve a valid president and the truth.

no

No one has seen her birth certificate anywhere so these are just wild rumors flying around.

I want to see her birth certificate if these claims are true.

Um...

Obama said she was born in Indonesia. Do you not believe him now? Your reasoning here is a little circular...lol

~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~

well

so let's see her certificate of live birth then saying she was born in Hawaii.

I guess you could ask...

just email her then? Be certain to ask for her driver's licence as well.. maybe a credit card number?

You're missing the point.. you can certainly be born somewhere else and get a Hawaii certificate of live birth.

BTW, the Dept. of Hawaiian Homelands does NOT accept the "Certification of Live Birth" as documentation. This is the same document that Obama is showing the world as proof of his Hawaiian birth and American "natural born citizen" status.

If you submit the "Certification of Live Birth" to the DHHL, they will make phone calls and written inquiries (to have a paper trail) to the office of Vital Statistics, to confirm information that WOULD BE on the "Birth Certificate," that is NOT present on the "Certification of Live Birth."

Why do they do that? Simply because they know that a COLB does not prove your birthplace.

Because of this....

Amended certifications of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country.

This is straight from the Hawaii Department Of Health Website... I guess you could email them as well and argue with them too... ~shrug~.

Link here... http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html

The point being, Certification of Live Birth is not a Birth Certificate. Obama's sister Maya was born in Jakarta, Indonesia, but Anna Dunham registered her as "born in Honolulu" shortly after her birth. Maya has a State of Hawaii Certification of Live Birth, just like Obama -- proves nothing.

~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~

No

You said Maya had one so why did you say that if she doesn't?

~sigh~

Because she was born in Indonesia but her mother registered her shortly after birth as being born in Honolulu. So her place of birth, as a matter of public record, is Honolulu. As evidenced by her saying that her birthplace is Honolulu but she was actually birthed in Indonesia. Because her brother and mother said that she was. I'm sorry... can I make the words somewhat smaller for you? We seem to have a problem communicating here. I suppose you could ask her to have her COLB scanned and sent to you, since you seem to not believe her, her parents, or her brother. That's not really common practice, I would think, but I guess you believe you have the right.

What you should be asking is to see Barak Obama's birth certificate.. but then you couldn't derail the thread now, could you?

~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~

Obama

We have already seen Obama's birth certificate, and having the certificate still keeps the possibility that he was born in Hawaii open.

We have not seen Maya's. Your words don't mean anything because I have to see it or I don't believe.

Lies.

You have not seen Obama's birth certificate. You have seen a Certificate of Live Birth. There is a difference, if you had bothered to read any of the other posts on here.

Let me try this one more time, really slowly.

A Certificate Of Live Birth is NOT a birth certificate.

Do you ~get~ that?

They are two different things.

One is a certificate of live birth.

The other is a birth certificate.

Obama's birth certificate is currently residing in Hawaii... it would list his PLACE OF BIRTH.

The only one who can ask for a copy of his BIRTH CERTIFICATE is Obama himself.

Obama WILL NOT produce a copy to show the American public.

You do realize that the ~certificate of live birth~ was not even produced by Obama?

It showed up one day at the Daily Kos.

Maybe you should go back there.

~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~

Hawaii

Does Hawaii issue birth certificates?

No, they issue certificates of live birth instead. It's their laws and they get to choose. The enforcement mechanism for determining where Obama was born is under Hawaiian control, and they gave him a certificate of live birth so that's all you can really ask for.

Don't get too offended. I'm just playing devil's advocate, but from my experience most conspiracy theories are bogus. I'll continue to glance this over from time to time, but I have my doubts.

Lies.

A "Certification of Live Birth" is a short form birth certificate. The information included in the document may differ from state to state. A "Certification of Live Birth" from Hawaii will include the name and sex of the person, date of birth, hour of birth, island of birth, county of birth, mother's maiden name, mother's race, father's name, father's race, date accepted by registrar, a certificate number and seal. The seal may be different depending on the year it was printed.

A Birth Certificate, or "Certificate of Live Birth," is the long form birth certificate and contains more detailed information, including signatures of doctor(s), witnesses, vital statistics (length and weight), etc.

The Hawai'i State Department does not make clear whether the Certification is equal proof of birth of birth but according to the Department of Hawaiian Homelands:

"In order to process your application (to verify that you are a genuine native Hawaiian), DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL."

So, a long form Certificate (which requires less verification) is irrefutable and is never rejected when applying for jobs, passports, Hawaiian land, etc. and the Certification would require more extensive verification.

http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html

I'm sorry there.. I'ma give up on you. It appears that although you can read, you just are not capable of comprehending it.

~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~

You still haven't answered the main question

My main point was questioning what you said when you said this:

"The point being, Certification of Live Birth is not a Birth Certificate. Obama's sister Maya was born in Jakarta, Indonesia, but Anna Dunham registered her as "born in Honolulu" shortly after her birth. Maya has a State of Hawaii Certification of Live Birth, just like Obama -- proves nothing."

On what basis do you make the claim that Maya has a Certification of live birth.

You said it not me.

Why did you say it if there is no proof of it?