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First Comment
Long time viewer, first comment. I agree whole-heartedly that torture should not used as a means of getting answers and that water boarding is considered torture. However, I'm not sure I can agree with Ron Paul's stance that we are less safe with the current administration than we were with the last one. Although I respect Ron Paul's gratitude and devotion to principle and the Constitution, he is a politician and I feel like he is siding with the Republicans a bit too much on this one (sort of like how he would not put down Sarah Palin at all because she made a nice comment about him stating that he's 'cool'). Ron Paul even seemed a little positively surprised at Hillary Clinton's remarks about changing foreign policy for the better- at least it's a first step with the new administration. With Bush, he was the one who got us into Iraq and Afghanistan and pushed for confrontation with Iran resulting in a diminished relationship. Just my two cents
I think you misunderstand...
...and perhaps Ron Paul was inarticulate.
He's NOT siding with mainstream Republicans. I think he means that it becomes more and more dangerous to continue the same foreign policy while giving lip service to change. He didn't say it that way exactly, but I think that's what he meant.
There was nothing in this video that Republican leaders could take as leaning their way unless they just wanted to take the one statement that he made completely out of context. That won't happen. I spent enough time on RedState.com last year to know that "they" dislike Ron Paul far more than they dislike Barack Obama.
In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock.
-- Thomas Jefferson
It Really Is So Simple
adopt a Non Interventionist foreign policy (obeying rule of law)
Save Lives - Save Money
(but, war is a racket)
and Republicrats like their wars -
Something's got to give!
2012 .... we vote in a Non-Interventionist philosophy candidate
if he's so big on stopping
if he's so big on stopping torture, why isn't he calling for a ban on barbra streisand?
The info is bad
You'll confess to anything as long as they stop. You have the sensation that you are being murdered. The thing is, one will say anything to keep from being murdered. It doesn't work.
Love you, Ron .. partially
Love you, Ron .. partially disagree. We should not torture anyone and everyone who might be a suspected terrorist or who might have information.
We should, however, resort to any methods necessary to extract information from those who definitely have information and are definitely withholding it.
It basically comes down to prioritizing natural law and civil liberties. If we torture those who might, then that is a violation of natural law and their civil liberties and so hence an immoral act. If we torture those who do, then it becomes a matter of just self-preservation, which has a higher priority. Theres nothing honorable about sticking to your principals, if they get you or other innocent people killed.
And I think thats the battle. Its the reason why most Republicans are taking the line of reason of it being "not torture" so they can continue to use whenever and wherever they want, and I agree .. they should not do that.
If someone definitely felt that a suspect was holding vital information to the safety of this nation and innocent civilians, no law, would stop someone from using whatever means they felt necessary. And they would be morally justified in taking those actions.
I definitely feel that you have information
The boys will be over soon to extract it from you. See how dangerous this slope is? What if I got elected to congress--think it would be ok for me to "feel strongly"?
Waking up is a slow process, I guarantee in 6 months you'll laugh when you recall how naive you once were. Guarantee it.
Explore Orthodox Christianity
No, Lawson .. you're wrong.
No, Lawson .. you're wrong. We aren't talking about opinion here, we are talking about facts. The kicker is if you decide to do whatever it takes, you better be right. We arent talking about gestapo shit where people can just make up reasons because they feel like torturing a suspect. I'm saying when there is credible evidence that someone is withholding vital information, it is justified .. but that person better produce results, and by that I mean actionable evidence, not just "confessions".
>>Waking up is a slow process, I guarantee in 6 months you'll laugh when you recall how naive you once were. Guarantee it.<<
86 the condescending tone. I've got your daughter held hostage in a private room with a bomb strapped to her. Its set to go off in 2 hours, you either have the ability to do something directly for me or to provide me with information that will cause the deaths of 10,000 other American citizens. I don't want your money. I don't want your witness protection programs. I want you to do, what I tell you to do. Or else she goes "boom"
Being objective is being able to make decisions like that, when there isnt a personal interest at stake. Could you do it for innocent people you don't know? Or would your hands be washed of the consequences because you wouldnt be immoral?
Call Batman and ask him to rescue her?
We are talking about the powers of government, not your daughter held hostage with a fictitious time bomb in a room.
There are two issues that are relevant to discussion of official torture: (a) the powers of government should be restrained; (b) America ought to stand for something.
Official torture is an interrogation tool of dictatorships.
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Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Um...
I'm saying when there is credible evidence that someone is withholding vital information, it is justified ..
It is never justified. Period. I don't care what scenario you are going to spin to justify torture.
Because once it is, then you can't get that genii back into the bottle. And the next thing that will happen soon is that ~gestapo~ crap you were talking about. If it hasn't happened already... our Gitmo prisoners know so much that they can't even be allowed on the continental US, for fear that we as citizens will learn something.
So nice try, but justifying torture to extract information lies well within the realm of an inhuman act. If you want to be part of that crowd, great. I'd rather be a decent human.
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
That's right, and it's illegal!! That's what the good
doctor said. It violates U.S. and international laws.
Debbie
You don't get credible
Results from torture. It is a given that under torture people will tell you what you want to hear, just to make it stop! Even if they are innocent. You would have better results with truth serum.
Should post the original video!
As much as I am a fan of melioped
original: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skeom9K8fww
Musician, Blimpographer...Hear my music: www.myspace.com/americanpirates
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Activism Training.
Thanks for posting.
Straight talk.
RP, a true supporter of the
troops. Just bring them home!