Got a collection call today! Anyone else dealing with something like this?
This stems from a dispute with my phone company. Couldn't get phone service (voice mail ceased to work) from T-Mobile. Since this was a business phone, it was killing me! I spent hours on the phone with their tech support.... a maddening, repetitive process that always ended with me calling back again. This went on for a week. I told them that if it continued, I would have to move to a different cell provider.
After a week of not being able to retrieve my messages (or customers not being able to leave a message) I asked if I was still under contract. I was told no. I asked at least four different people at T-Mobile and was told no each time. I finally moved my three phones over to Verizon.
Low and behold, a month later I get a $400 bill in the mail claiming I owe them money because I broke my contract with them. I called and explained the situation to no avail. I wrote a letter disputing the bill. Also ignored. I finally told them that they would be playing hockey in hell before they saw a dime out of me.
Now, six months later I get contacted by Pinnacle - a collections company out in Minnesota. He says I now owe $460. I laughed and told him I didn't. He said that I had great credit and it would be a shame to ruin it.
I told him I already had my house, my vehicles, my credit cards... so go ahead.
He was dumbfounded! I further told him that a small blip like this on a credit report was nothing anyway and that I had no intention of paying him just like I had no intention of paying T-Mobile.
So, let's get a skull session DPer's... what is a good strategy when dealing with collection agencies? I already know they have no power to 'collect' anything. They only collect if I choose to pay. I've hear that taking them to small claims court is a way to get them off your back but I'm not sure how I would take a Minnesota company to small claims court in NJ.
I think this would be a worthwhile thread since a lot of folks are probably dealing with this on a daily basis by now. Let's put out heads together and kick these guys asses!
Not paying is always best.
You don't need a good credit rating. You shouldn't use credit, anyway, asides from necessities like a mortgage.
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Thanks for all the great info
I had a Target account. Paid it off every month. About two years ago, after the payoff, we received a $20 charge for a late fee. We did not pay late. I argued the charge to no avail, and now they are in it for over $300, and I refuse to pay. BS. It is in collections and I just ignore every call and letter now. Target has not only lost my credit business, but I will not go in to pay cash either. I will use some of the info below to minimize and even negate the debt they call.
Colchester, New London County, Connecticut
Try this
Send a letter, registered mail..to TMobile, the AG, and the collection agency bugging you...Address the letter to TMobile at the bottom
put C/C AG, Name of Collection Agency.
Tell them the day the trouble started...go over all the call/dates if you can, that you made..and the fact you ask 4 times about breaking the contract.
Now..inform them if they do not clear up this matter, you are willing to take them to court. Remind them THEY CHANGED THE CONTRACT when they said you could break it. Going against that is in itself Breach of Contract.
Freedom is another way to God...A corrupt government is a straight way to hell.
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Spindale-Rutherford County-North Carolina
I work for
t-mobile. What probably happened is you had more than one account or more than one line that had a contract. It's based on the line not the account. If you have 5 lines all five could have contracts. It's pretty cut and dry. If you didn't have a contract and actually asked they could easily tell you yes or no. It's not something that gets confused so not sure why yours was. T-mobile ties contracts with phones so all those phones you got for free were attached to a contract. pay full retail no contract. They are a great company take very good care of their customers. If you reinstate with them within 90 days all those ETF's go away. There is always more to this story having worked there. Did you allow them to actually troubleshoot your issue? I've never run across a customer who's issue wasn't resolved as long as they gave the company the chance to make it right including credits and free minutes to make you happy. Lets hear the rest of the story?
"I've never run across a customer who's issue wasn't resolved"
Well, now you have.
I had three lines with T-Mobile. No, I didn't ask if each and every one of the phones was still under contract. I simply asked if I was under contract. I was told no. Any one of the people I spoke to could have said "well, your contract has expired but I see that the other two lines have such-and-such amount of time left..." but they didn't.
As for trouble shooting, I can give you all the buss words... I went through tier one, tier two, tier three and tier four. Each time I arrived at a new tier I had to explain the entire problem to them again. They couldn't read the notes (or chose not to) so I was required to repeat it over and over and over.
Then when they couldn't resolve it, and I had to call back the next day - guess what? Yup, I had to start at tier on again and explain the entire problem again. They absolutely would not simply send me back to tier four tech support. I had to go through each God-forsaken tier of useless support restating the same story again and again and again.
Are you getting sick of this yet? Well, I was. If that is what you consider tech support at T-Mobile, I'm glad I left. I went a full week with these knuckleheads trying to fix a voice mail problem. And yes, it effected all three phones. I had told them my intentions to move if they were unable to correct it. That is when I began asking if I was still under contract. I asked at each level of tech support. Each time I was told that I was no longer under contract.
You do indeed sound like a T-Mobile employee because as soon as I announced that I was leaving for a better company, the demeanor changed. then they started trying to twist words and make it look like I was being unreasonable...I didn't give tech support enough time to correct the problem... my voice mail actually did work, I just wasn't patient enough...
So your last sentence "Lets hear the rest of the story?", where you imply that I am somehow withholding information or otherwise being deceitful sounds remarkably like the latter conversations I had with your company.
Right down to when one of your supervisors hung up on me.
Nice try. Take one for the company.
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
Go back and cover your ass!
Find the original contract you signed with T-mobile and see if you were still in contract. Also, you can pull out old statements from them, I am assuming that since they were for your business you would still have all that information. Then make a copy of the first statement that shows you entering into the contract and note the date. Most of these companies set up contracts for 2 years. If the contract has expired then just make copies of all your supporting documents and mail them registered mail. That will give you documentation that they did receive the letter.
On the otherhand, if you were still in contract, you may be screwed.
This sounds very familiar.
About ten years ago, I cancelled a London gym membership half-way through the contract. There was a clause in the contract that allowed me to do this. Basically, if I moved out of London and gave them a months notice I was allowed to end the contract.
A month after I moved out of London and cancelled my membership - without any correspondence from the gym - I received a standard letter from a debt collection agency. Other than the name on the letter, it wasn't personalised at all.
I wrote back to the debt collection agency telling that I didn't owe the gym a penny with a clear explanation of why. I said that if they disagreed with this assessment that I would see them in court.
Over the course of the next three weeks, I received three more threatening standard letters that all said the same thing with a slightly different wording. These went straight in the bin.
About a month after that, I received a really fake-looking County Court Summons. In Britain, County Court deals with civil actions over £500.
As the summons looked as if it had been put together with the help of a Xerox machine, I phoned the local County Court and spoke to a very friendly clerk.
She described what a real County Court Summons would look like. It didn't look anything like the document I had received!
I ignored the fake summons and a month later I received the same three standard letters at weekly intervals.
Legally, the only way you can owe this company any money is if you say you do!
I know this sounds weird, but if you owe any money to anyone - which it seems you don't - you owe it to T-Mobile. Not this third party debt collector.
T-Mobile has "washed its hands" of your fake "debt" and sold it!
If this firm gets your landline number - change it and go unlisted. Ignore their correspondence.
As far as your credit being affected, my credit certainly wasn't affected by this gym membership fiasco.
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
the collection agency has no right to bother you.
they are a 3rd party interloper with no contract rights to you. pull your credit report.dispute the charge. they have 30 days to prove its valid or they remove it from the report.
me thinks you should pay
me thinks you should pay your bills, dispute after the fact, you're in collections and should protect your credit first, then debate charges, good luck
Hmmm.
What does the contract say? Is there a clause specificlly allowing the contract/debt to be assigned? If so, this explanation holds no water.
**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **
"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece
This is easy
Since you wrote a letter disputing the bill, it's was against the law for them to send it to collections. When next you are contacted by the collection agency, you simply tell them that this bill has been formally disputed in writing and that the phone company illegally sent it to collections, and now that they have been told that it is illegally in collections, they would also be in violation if they contact you again. Be sure to keep track of every contact with them. When I did this, I never had collections contact me again, nor did I ever have anything show up on my credit.
It seems you dont haver to pay
Check out this thread and make you own judgement
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/93059
The waking up manual: http://www.dailypaul.com/168937/the-waking-up-manual-how-to-...
Not quite true. Here in CT,
Not quite true about debt agencies not going to court for $400. Here in CT, Tommy's Video was notorious for dragging customers to court to collect late fees, sometimes just for a few tenners.
Tommy was in small claims court every single day of the week. He had it down to a science and said the three hours a day was just part of running the business. No lawyer needed!
He finally left the video rental biz to do tanning salons. If anyone tries to gip him on some tanning fees, they'll be sorry!
"Cowards & idiots can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back seat!"
Be careful with some of this "advice"...
"...they are what's known as a third party interloper. You have no contractual agreement with them, therefore no financial obligation exists."
This is very misleading. It all depends on the contract signed, and even then, it can be morphed by the Court. Most commercial contracts contain a clause allowing the debt instrument (contract), created by the signor's actions (debtor), to be assigned to another (assignee) at the discretion of the originator (seller).
All debts that are adjudicated and reduced to judgment, become "negotiable instruments" upon final judgment. This is true even in the case wherein the original contract made no provisions for assignment. All of this can occur without any input of the debtor, as long as service of process is affected within the statute of limitations...typically 3-5 years from the date of default. Why? Because you traded an asset (your signitory establishment of a debt instrument) for an asset (the service or goods you received). The value of those assets was certain at the time of the signing and they both retain value...generally value that can be sold to another.
If the judgment is sold and "assigned" to a third party, the assignment can be filed in the Court of original jurisdiction and the case can then be further prosecuted (with post-judgment remedies like garnishment and asset seizure) with the assignee taking over the plaintiff's position and rights under the judgment. All "costs" of enforcement of the judgment are assessed on the defendant and added to the judgment itself. Judgments typically earn 10% simple interest per year, last for 10-12 years and can be renewed for about $10.00 for another 10-12 year term...indefinity (although it is not common practice - 24 years seems to be enough)!
I wouldn't ignore any debt that I knew was valid. It can truly get quite expensive with the opposing attorney's fees often coming out of your pocket...especially if the contract allows for it, which many often do. If there is a question of validity of the origination or balance due on the debt, then I would take the time to ascertain your EXACT obligations under the contract. Measure this against what specific performance you have provided and be SURE you understand what the contract deems "allowable" as remedies by the seller/provider. Just because they screw up and shit stops working for awhile doesn't necessarily allow you to breach the contract...again....even if they suck. It may be grounds for you to adjudicate a release via suit, but be very careful if you think you can walk away..."just because".
If it ends up in the hands of a collections attorney, don't think $400.00 is too little. Often they take pools of debt that they run through their mill with little care for the amount...it depends on the attorney. He's going to be in court that day, with a whole pile of case files anyway...
Many Plaintiff's will chase small amounts as they are pissed and simply want to "stick it to 'em" in return for what they perceived they received. In the case of small business owners, this is often the case. They just want to spread a little pain in return for the buggering they think they got from the contract breacher.
**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **
"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece
Collections
You are getting a lot of good information. Beware of phony collection agencies, and definitely don't pay a collection company a dime.
We actually had a collection company trying to collect on a debt that we paid! When we asked the doctor about it. He said he had never heard of the collection company before. So you need to be careful.
dont ignore it, send them
dont ignore it, send them something along the lines of
"Cease and desist collections of this account until such time you can;
provide me a notarized copy of any contract between Pinnacle and (your name)
Failure to provide me with this contract within 10 days will be deemed a dishonor and all attempts to collect this alleged debt shall forever be estopped.
Attempts to defraud me without a contract betwenn pinnacle and myself, is illegal. Any further attempts to collect without said contract may result in my filing a complaint with the proper authorities for, among other things, mail fraud. A UCC-1 lien may also be filed to satisfy my fees for dealing with this matter"
Ignore it
Just ignore it. It'll go away. No one is going to pay an attorney's fee of easily a minimum $1500 to collect $400.
Tell Pinnacle...
that according to the fair credit reporting act, they have 30 days to prove this is a legitimate debt, or they MUST take it off of your credit report and cease collections.
You start talking about laws and your rights, and their tone can change.
But most debt collectors, it seems, do not have any brain function. So you can ignore them and let it fall off after 7 years.
I have a credit score of 0. I don't borrow money anymore, and that has changed my life.
www.ilovegenerationx.com
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Yes ask for proof...
They will provide something immediately. I would ignore it. Ignore everything. Save all correspondence, but ignore all of it. They'll harrass you off and on for 2 years probably by switching collection agencies, but its $400 dollars. Its no skin off their back, so they wont make a bigger issue out of it. For sums of that amount, they'll try to scare you a little to see if your a wimp and pay up, but show them you are not.
By asking for proof and receiving it, they'll think they have you "psychologically" convinced you owe. When you dont pay up, and dont respond back, they'll think you have some sort of secret means to fight it, like your a bigshot or have gobs of cake to spend on high-class attorneys or something and back down...
we had the same problem with
we had the same problem with t mobile.. we told them to F-OFF.. and to sue us.. we only get collectors calling every once in a while.. they aren toothless this has been going on for years..
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
“A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.” (Prov. 22:3; 27:12 KJV)
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I've been getting calls from '877' numbers...
.that show up as 'unknown' on caller ID. I just never answer them. My daughter picked up the phone and handed it to me yesterday - THANKS SWEETIE!
He threatened to move forward with the collection... whatever that means.
Since he can't garnish wages or actually collect anything, there's not a lot of substance behind his saber rattling.
And like I told him....I already have my home....my vehicles...my credit cards... so take your best shot! Ha!
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
Thanks everyone.... some very useful info here...
I think I shall contact them and demand to see what contract I have with them that would force me to pay $460 to them.
Then I will demand that they cease all communication, until such time as I receive said agreement.
Then I will promise, not threaten, to file suit against Pinnacle and the person in particular, if any damage befalls my credit rating.
See, this sort of thing CAN be fun!
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
Dealing with credit card and other debtors
Jimr3778
About seven years ago I had PERFECT credit. I was 798 on the 800 scale. I had credit cards with 20,000 limits that I had 200 bucks charged on. I worked for a financial company and had a very good salary, but wanted more. To make a long story short, I quit, and opened an upscale eatery in a pricey section of town. It was going to be great. Took out a bank loan for the place, and soon found that income was not meeting outgo. Started using credit cards to make up the difference,and then a line of credit on the house. In the end I lost the business, my house, and pretty much everything. My fault, but I did what I could. Anyway, through this I had PLENTY of experience with credit card companies calling me. They go through three phases:
1: Mr Brown, just a reminder that you are late on your payment with xyz. When can we expect a payment and we will note it on your account?
2.Mr. Brown, you are now 60 days late on your payment. I need $XX by this and that a date or you will be in default. Be aware that this bank intends to use ALL means neccesary to collect this debt. NO, Mr Brown, that amount is NOT acceptable, I need $XX or we are going to have you castrated!
3. Mr. Brown, I am from the mitigation of loss department. We want to work with people in trouble, and it seems you are. If I could reduce your debt by 40% do you think you could pay it? What minimum payment COULD you afford?
Anyway, if you are hurting, wait till phase 3!
Jim Rogers
Dealing with credit card and other debtors
Jimr3778
About seven years ago I had PERFECT credit. I was 798 on the 800 scale. I had credit cards with 20,000 limits that I had 200 bucks charged on. I worked for a financial company and had a very good salary, but wanted more. To make a long story short, I quit, and opened an upscale eatery in a pricey section of town. It was going to be great. Took out a bank loan for the place, and soon found that income was not meeting outgo. Started using credit cards to make up the difference,and then a line of credit on the house. In the end I lost the business, my house, and pretty much everything. My fault, but I did what I could. Anyway, through this I had PLENTY of experience with credit card companies calling me. They go through three phases:
1: Mr Brown, just a reminder that you are late on your payment with xyz. When can we expect a payment and we will note it on your account?
2.Mr. Brown, you are now 60 days late on your payment. I need $XX by this and that a date or you will be in default. Be aware that this bank intends to use ALL means neccesary to collect this debt. NO, Mr Brown, that amount is NOT acceptable, I need $XX or we are going to have you castrated!
3. Mr. Brown, I am from the mitigation of loss department. We want to work with people in trouble, and it seems you are. If I could reduce your debt by 40% do you think you could pay it? What minimum payment COULD you afford?
Anyway, if you are hurting, wait till phase 3!
Jim Rogers
Seems to me that phase 2
Seems to me that phase 2 would be the time to hurt. You know, all that castration stuff.
My father went through exactly the same thing for the same reasons. His credit rating was slashed. Nobody wanted to talk to him. But then he married again. And got his name on his wife's mortgage. How quickly things changed! Suddenly he was sporting gold cards with his own name on them. And TWO new cars! Its as though the previous five years of default, bankruptcy, and insolvent debt had melted away once his dirty name was attached to someone else's golden credit...!
"Cowards & idiots can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back seat!"
!
"If the people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines they take,
their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state
as are the souls of those who live under tyranny."
Thomas Jefferson
Make the collection company prove the debt..1st.
T-Mobile and cell phone companies are different than a "debt". This isn't a "real" debt. It is goons enforcing a contract that they first broke. T-mobile sucks hard.
Usurists! Its a legal
Usurists! adam1mc's fight with the brutal Capital One is typical. Its a legal crimewave that's stolen more money and ruined more peoples' lives than the mafia could ever hope to achieve. I've heard how the Godfather Obama's credit card act has caused a spree of new fee structures to mushroom all over the place as the loan-sharking usurists are forced to reduce balance percentages.
"Cowards & idiots can come along for the ride but they gotta sit in the back seat!"
Well...
Everyone who posted here seems to have good info and mine won't be that much different. When my wife was being harassed about a doctors premium that we never recieved the bill for I did a lot of research online and there is a Bill of Rights for dealing with collection agencies but I forget the name. Long story short what I did (and it worked) was ask them to provide proof of the debt/contract (which they can almost never do) and to stop contacting me or I would take further legal action. Never heard from them again. I also cited the sections of the act that were pertinent. If you tell them to stop calling you and they don't... that's illegal. After that their only recourse it to take you to court and not only would they probably not win but in most cases the debt isn't high enough for court to be cost effective for them. Hope this helps...
Document everything!
Make sure you get names of folks you spoke with and get direct quotes if possible. Facts are usually a good strategy.
www.ZigiMe.com
In truth,