Regarding Third Parties:
Submitted by OregonWendy on Sun, 06/07/2009 - 08:19
I was talking with a friend from New Zealand who suggested that the 3rd largest political party in NZ has the most power. He explained that in order to get a majority, the 2 larger parties need the support of the 3rd party, therefore the third party always gets it's way.
This may be an oversimplification, or completely wrong, but I was hoping to get some comments from you all, especially those living where there are more than 2 viable political parties.
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Independent Voter:
Independent Voter: One who asserts his right to vote for Tweedle Dee or Tweedle Dum, regardless of party affiliation.
Political parties are still part of the collectivism problem
I would like to see independent voters come together as "Politically Unaffiliated Americans".
Independents for Independence can still unite without being collectivists.
We have a "winner take all" system,
So unless you can put up a credible winner, you are pretty much out of luck. NZ has a proportional representative system, so minor parties can play big roles as king makers while forming coalitions.. Indeed, a small party can jerk around the large parties just by refusing to be part of the ruling majority.
That being said, third parties here bleed off voters from the two major parties, so it behooves the Repubs and Dems to watch for growing voting blocks that they can co-opt. That's why third parties can only get so big before one of the majors adopts just enough of their positions to win over those voters before the other party can.
So a third party in the U.S. will probably never win over a major party, but the major party is forced to become more like the third party if they are to remain dominant.
As long as you have no illusions about winning, by all means push for a third party. You WILL have an indirect impact eventually.
Why I think you're not correct
When Nader ran in 1996, Democrats said Nader was a spoiler. Nader has never been a member of any party, so he really wasn't a spoiler, but since Nader was a consumer advocate and not a corporate advocate, and MSM is corporate, most people have no clue about Nader.. Nader got into the race because he claimed Ross Perot BOUGHT his ticket in and Nader wanted to see what Perot got for his money. What Nader got, what all of us got was an incredible education as to how corrupt things are... remember McCain, Feingold campaign reform? Oh they saw the Indy movement coming. They actually hide the registration for Decline to state party, which is now up to 40 in my county and it's going to grow as Obama's terms take their corporate course.
In Y2K, Nader claimed there was no difference between parties, and beside awkward moments, Nader was not on TV yet, he was blamed for Bush being selected president.. still Nader recieved more law suits from the major parties to lame his election than percent of votes, but it wasn't votes anymore, it was the opportunity to fight the corruption. Matters not to me who wins, the corruption has to stop, so I work with Nader as an Indepedent, who has the right to be on the ballot... and while we here on the right are looking for real leadership coming from hte C4L, the left is forming an Indy platform... NeoIndy... they know, as a co=alation of Indy's, not party, but indy of party, we the indy will control the election. We will not be contributing to any party members.
THE PARTY IS OVER.
It's a coalation of the willing civilan to take the country back for INDEPENDENCE from this corruption, that should be held accountable with atrrests of house members who wrote acts and bills that got us into wars, and hte execs of corporations who proffited off it,
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
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That's kind of what I was thinking
Since both parties have the same goal, one will simply change it's talking points enough to draw in the people from the emerging movement and win the next election. Then it's business as usual. I think you would need a large number of elected reps in the 3rd party to carry the weight my friend described. And we can't get enough people to agree on the basic principles - with so many spliter subjects to distract.
I appologize for igniting the same, 3rd party or no, argument. My question was really about how it works in other countries, and how it could work in congress rather than presidential races. Thanks for everyone's input.
Dr. Paul Will Not Run 3rd Party...
"Why does not the Constitution Party and Libertarian Party join forces, and re-take the Republican Party?
According to the Pew Research Center, residents (like that term?) are:
- 39% Independent
- 33% Democrat
- 22% Republican
We all know that the Constitution Party, Libertarian Party, Green Party, JBS, and the Republican Party would have voted for Dr. Paul, if he were the nominee. Now add the Independents...
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Regarding Palin: I believe we are watching in real time the rise of the third party, which will be controlled by the powers that be from its' inception.
Next Scam: "Cash For Cash"
http://www.RonPaul2012.com
98% of the 'independent' voters
will cast their votes for Democrats or Republicans at election time. That is the extent of their independence.
We have to have a viable Third Party, and the time is ripe.
We have to capture the White House. It will be all but impossible to do that through the existing Two (ONE) Party system.
I will support Ron Paul 100% if and when he runs GOP for President; however I do not have any illusions about his chances of making a Republican end run around the mainstream media, the military-industrial complex, and the CFR. The party is not that desperate to recapture its lost power. The party is corrupt, absolutely and completely, and its voter base is deluded. I expect the GOP nominee in 2012 to be Jeb Bush.
Nothing else Third Party will work if we want to elect a President, and without an elected President, we cannot stop the existing authoritarian infrastructure. We should either create a Third Party, or take over one of the two existing ones that can be shaped to our message. Taking over the Libertarian or Constitution Parties could be done in a year. Taking over the Republican Party in a presidential context is, in my opinion, a pipe dream.
We need a viable Third Party.
Or we can sit here for four more years, and talk about atheism, Glenn Beck, and chemtrails, while a new political movement rises in our place and takes our place in the libertarian groundswell that is developing.
Because someone is going to rise up and develop a Third Party. Why can't it be us?
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Totally Agree
the time is now!
(a huge merger)
Actually what we need to do is...
convince the present Constitutional and Libertarian parties to lay down their pride and come together forming a powerful third party. We then spend months educating and developing a philosophical base. During this time we continue our present "Ron Paul" educational and recruiting efforts bringing in those from both the Democrat and Republican parties. Once we feel we are all pretty much on the same page we create a unified party which brings everyone together on basic issues such as end the war, stop economic fascism, end government encroachment, support freedom, constitution, etc...
impressive eh?
Its not pride
both are controlled by the GOP just as the Greens and Peace and Freedom are controlled by the Democratic party, who VETS candidates in third parties. Obama was vetted in the New Party.. who knew of a New Party? Eh? There are 36 third parties the major partiers vet candiates.
It used to be the third parties would remain third becasue they would lose their leaders, like RP to the GOP... but now, the GOP installs the likes of Bob Barr (GOP) and hard working Libertariana like Steve Kubby are wiped off the map.. I see the same crap on the left and right.
It's why I'm registered Decline to State Party, and vote Indy.
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
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dang...
so even the illusion of third party is an illusion... "I feel sullied and unusual..."
so we're back to throwing our support behind whatever candidate stands up for the Constitution and the people while we remain "transpartisan" and hard to define...
I like it...
I do too.
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Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips
What's next after End the Fed? Repeal the XVI and XVII Amendments!
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
And the third party's name is.....
how about the "Tea Party" slogan; Libertarian,conservatives constitutional,etc... let's get together for a Tea Party
Heres an example
Back in 1996 Nader was nominated by the Green Party for president.
Today, all those corporations who "Hate" Nader are dressing in GREEN.
One might have thought Nader won, eh?
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
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3rd minor becomes a major
The term Green is synonomous with too much BS today...While nader is a good campaigner he does not appeal to enough of a base..He would be a good camp manager...I get asked for money all the time and I will no longer support ether major party, they are the same, moderates & DEMS are in bed together .That leaves the true conservatives ripe for the picking ..NOW is the time to form a viable third especially since the REPs are all but slaughterd by the DEMs ..They got no one ..And out of true opposition because moderation accepts anything ,to get elected..
you-no
and after all..
isn't that the real objective?
Look at all Ron Paul has accomplished. The political landscape has completely changed due to his work alone. Many are now more educated in matters of economics, foreign policy and legal process simply as a result of his relentlesss determination... truly heroic.
We have debated this issue repeatedly...
The first problem we have is that our candidates of choice are running on the Republican ticket... we will not be able to change that.
The fact of the matter is that "we" the people are not running for office, so therefore we do not need to align ourselves with a party. We do, however, feel the need to organize, to identify. I was all for taking over the Republican party as Schiff suggested because it is in disarray and I believe the majority of conservatives agree with us or could easily be persuaded. However, during a heated debate, it became clear that many former Democrats do not want to come under a "Republican" umbrella, which is understandable.
Another point to consider it this: the more we collectivize ourselves, the easier we are to identify and the easier to manipulate, demonize, coerce and corral we become. We have an advantage by spanning all political parties and operating in a sort of "stealth" mode. We know who we are and those who join us know who they are. We simply need to support whatever candidate stands up for the issues of freedom and supports the Constitution. I still want to take over the Republican party, but we cannot risk alienating those from the liberal left who are becomming more and more disillusioned and begin to "wake up."
And the fact Indy registration is above GOP
And the fact that an Indy candiate, with an Indy co-alation, can beat the system by NOT joining a party.
Talk about FREEDOM, and yet, so many here claim to be freedom lovers and yet insist on the GOP being their nanny party.
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
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Other than Ron Paul we don't have any candidates of choice.
We can't run Rand or Schiff for president before they become Senators. And whatever candidates we choose need to start running for President within the next year.
Other than Ron Paul, Rand, or Peter Schiff, I don't see any other choices. The closest thing to a runner-up would be Jesse Ventura, who would never run Republican.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
and I really don't see
Ventura being able to beat Obama... As much as I love to hear him speak, he does not have the polish or finesse required to be able to bring over those who are still straddling the fence.
What about Judge Napolitano? The best case scenario would be for Ron Paul to run, take the election and have a strong VP candidate to back him up...
I think he does
And I think if Ventura had made a Indy run he would have messed with the rEVOLution because the rEVOLution was brilliant in propeganda.. it was a collection of third party issues designed to unite those activists who both major parties have marginlized in rendering irrelevant,
Ventura is worth backing, like Ron Paul, because the message is really important.
In 1992 I was the inspector of a precinct of 10K for the registars office in LA County. The two top yard signs in my precinct was Jerry Brown and Ross Perot. After the polls closed, with a precinct worker, I drove the locked ballot to the county ballot drop. being Nov. it was dark and there was a long line of headlights behind me of precinct inspectors making their drops. I was listening to the election results and Clinton was announced president.
Not one ballot in LA had been counted, and I guess that would go for OR, AZ, HI, WA... CA has 156 electoral votes.. how did Bill Clinton win?
That's how I came to meet Nader, and worked with Nader on ballot access for three elections, sans the last because I joined the rEVOLution. Many people believe the Y2K election was "stolen", adn Kerry conceeded in less than two hours not counting ONE voting machine. So me thinks the elections are merely dog and pony shows by the major parties and MSM, but there is a loop hole... and it's in the Indy registration...
By blaming both corporate parties for this mess, Jesse was a successful Governor, he is fearless in a time where people are very afraid... I think he would resonate with allot of people and get the message out. If he was to run with Jeremy Skahill for example, or Lynn Woosley, one of the first dems to co sign 1207..
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
___.---.___
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