Moderation: The Importance of Avoiding "Tin Foil Land"
Submitted by JackParkman on Wed, 06/10/2009 - 04:00[Disclaimer: This is a long post. If you lack the patience to get through it, I won't hold it against you. But if you're hell-bent on chiming in, at least have the decency to read the whole thing before jumping to conclusions. If that's too much for you, be prepared for me to insult your lack of reading comprehension.]
A lot of discussion has taken place lately regarding which direction the DailyPaul should take. Should it be a free-for-all forum where everything and anything is discussed, a tightly-controlled space where only matters directly related to Ron Paul are discussed, or something in the middle?
We must be mindful of a few things. First, we have to accept the (arguably unfortunate) reality that a public figure's (or movement's) supporters behavior is reflected to the figure and back to the group as a whole. Heck, not all big-time Jimmy Buffett fans ("Parrot Heads") wear Hawaiian shirts and smoke pot. Not everyone who likes "Rocky Horror Picture Show" dresses up in character and re-enacts the film. Not all Cincinatians eat at Skyline Chili and not all Wisconsinites love bratwurst. But those are stereotypes that have been cultivated.
Second, DailyPaul is a major hub for those interested in Ron Paul and the greater freedom movement. Don't believe me? Google "Ron Paul" and see where DailyPaul comes up (7th, for me). Google "Ron Paul Revolution" and it's even higher. And none of the sites above it are interactive. DailyPaul has truly become the "water cooler" of the movement. The hot topics of conversation at the DailyPaul are going to be perceived as issues that matter to Ron Paul supporters and freedom lovers everywhere.
Understanding that, we have to balance everyone's natural, intellectual desire to engage in unfettered discussion with the two realities I just mentioned. Those who decry "censorship" (the term is misapplied, but I use it here just for brevity's sake) frequently throw out straw man arguments to mischaracterize their opponents. They claim that those who don't want discussions of "fringe topics" (moon landing, chemtrails, 9/11 truth, etc.): lack the critical thinking abilities to discuss these topics, buy the "government story," and even that they're unlibertarian.
The reality, for most of us, is much simpler. The reason we don't want discussions of chemtrails isn't because we're taking a "side." It's not because we oppose people's God-given right to question the government. And it's certainly not because we're dimwitted. Indeed, we're looking at an aspect of these issues that the original posters are blind to (or at least don't care about): we're concerned about how these issues are perceived by the mainstream public that we're trying to bring into the movement. Maybe these folks don't understand how the average person perceives a chemtrail conspiracist. Maybe they don't care. Maybe they don't take into account that it's harder to sell that same average person on the merits of auditing the Fed, legalizing industrial hemp, or reforming foreign policy when you've already lost all credibility in their eyes.
The biggest thing these people overlook, intentionally or otherwise, is the damage they do to the reputations of their allies. 9/11 Truthers can find plenty of like-minded people to chat with at websites and forums dedicated to 9/11 Truth. But when they proselytize at unrelated websites like DailyPaul, they reflect on Ron Paul supporters generally. Bit by bit, those who raise off-topic "fringe issues" within the context of the freedom movement continue to influence the public perception of all those in the movement. Everyone with a Ron Paul yard sign or bumper sticker is seen to be a little more of a truther, chemtrailer, or Flat Earther. They didn't ask to be associated with those views. But they're stuck with the reputations of all those around them. I created the satirical "Demand Freedom: Gay Midget Porn!" thread a while back to illustrate this very point. They say people with bad body odor often can't detect that they're stinking up the joint, and people who believe passionately in a fringe cause apparently can't detect that others will find their beliefs loopy.
What we have here is a movement that no one "owns." It's a public park. Some people want to smoke up a storm. And some would like the smokers to stand a few feet away so that they can breathe fresh air. "Politeness" should kick in even when "rights" don't. After all, how would the smokers feel if the nonsmokers suddenly put on "NAMBLA" t-shirts? The polite thing to do would be for both sides to accommodate each other (there's no need for one group of people to unnecessarily damage the lungs, or reputations, of another).
With all this in mind, my position is this:any site (or for that matter, any publication, group, etc.) like DailyPaul that aims to be a hub for the movement needs to restrict content (including discussions) that will needlessly scare off newcomers or endanger the image of its readership/contributors. Whether it's through a formal policy or even just exercising the "moderator's prerogative" of the site's owner, the DailyPaul (and the movement) are better off with topics such as chemtrails, the moon landing, and 9/11 truth being discussed elsewhere.
At the end of the day, it's not about censorship. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with certain controversial ideas, or having the intellectual ability to discuss them with a level head. Defenders of liberty overcome those obstacles all the time. We advocate foreign and domestic policies that are radically different from the status quo, and do so on both moral and practical grounds. It's about choosing our battles, protecting the public perception of our movement, putting forth a message that is palatable to newcomers, and respecting people's desire not to be thought of as "kooks" simply because a vocal minority of us puts the need to constantly discuss their pet issues ahead of the reputations of their allies.
Yours in freedom,
JP

















It's A New Day
Salve Veritate
- 'Saving The Truth' -
It’s been suggested ...
... that grappling with government conspiracies, even if it involves analysis of unfounded claims of government, or further that reasoned attempts to get a handle on Truth, have no place on a conspicuous forum devoted to Liberty in general, and the teachings of Ron Paul’s Freedom Philosophy, in particular.
The proffered rational is that if we put a good face on our collective opinions our adversaries will not have ammunition to disparage our champion, Dr. Paul. Additionally, it is urged that we conduct ourselves in accord with a uniform code conforming to the least common denominator marking only well troddened pathways for strolling towards consensus with the hoi polloi and their imperial handlers so as not to embarrass the most tentative among us.
To those holding the short end sticks( stinking‘in the mud’) in the pending straw poll, who may rush to prop up this straw man with the thin stuffing in their hand, let me say – I grant you that we each should do better at soft sell, and other diplomatic techniques of persuasion such as courtesy, avoidance of fallacy, polished presentation and appearance. [ If it is control you want -- it is not beyond your own reach ... and you don't even need to violate freedom principles to achieve it.] I have no fundamental disagreement with you on the score of hygiene and comportment unless your dress and grooming code calls for the donning of uniformity. [ Sense, certainly(that’s what debate and reason is for); Sensitivity, absolutely (that’s what, discussion and discernment is for); Sensibility, not your call ( that’s a value judgement and moral issue that one ought not ever defer to others, that’s what freedom and personal responsibility is about) ].
My objection is to content based efforts to suppress substance, not stylistic recommendations as to form and manners in presentation. I object not just on policy grounds though I believe it will be counterproductive in growing our numbers, and it will prove ineffective to avoid stigmatization. [ You overlook the overt and covert designs that prove They will invent or otherwise contrive reasons to subvert wet dreams of media sanctioned popularity– recall the racist smear They concocted just before They blacked out our hero, the well funded, statistical frontrunner Republican Conservative].
Please understand I welcome your efforts and energies and input in this r’Evolution [as I see it], and I hope to enjoy your company as we each go forward, but I am very thankful you are only able to offer your view in dissent by way of minority report because I am convinced your view is fundamentally wrong as to method, direction, and priority in our fight to advance liberty. In fact, as I see it, if you succeeded in your goals of enforced constraints upon free inquiry and debate here, I would see you as not merely the loyal opposition, but as part of the opposition indeed, not just accidentally in it's service.
You see, I believe you are WRONG in principle... at the core of our effort ... not on the fringe. This isn’t about a peripheral sidetrack. It’s fundamental:
Obsta principiis
-‘ Resist the beginnings’ –
I believe you are wrong in principle. Michael is right -- We need to PRACTICE what we preach. Not just by way of example and philosophical honesty and consistency, but because we need the PRACTICE. This is our drill ! Yes, ‘... what we have here is, failure to communicate.’ ........................ We need to ‘... git our mind riiiigggghhhht’.
***
“It is also important for the State to inculcate in its subjects an aversion to any outcropping of what is now called 'a conspiracy theory of history.' For a search for 'conspiracies,' as misguided as the results often are, means a search for motives, and an attribution of individual responsibility for the historical misdeeds of ruling elites. If, however, any tyranny or venality, or aggressive war imposed by the State was brought about not by particular State rulers but by mysterious and arcane 'social forces,' or by the imperfect state of the world -- or if, in some way, everyone was guilty -- then there is no point in anyone's becoming indignant or rising up against such misdeeds. Furthermore, a discrediting of 'conspiracy theories' will make the subjects more likely to believe the 'general welfare' reasons that are invariably put forth by the modern State for engaging in aggressive actions.”
-- Murray N. Rothbard
***
Discouragement in the exercise of open minded critical thinking skills, or obstructing the search and dissemination of truth, is precisely the problem which should animate each of us.
In my opinion .... GETTING TO THE TRUTH .............. In the fullest sense and sensibility of this meaning IS the r’Evolution !!!
Let us each carry on our own mission, together, if possible, ............ but undaunted.
'cura te ipsum'
***
A tactic for the strategy of resisting the beginnings:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/96072#comment-1056085
[ If this makes sense to you, more than sliding, clogging and disinformation -- debate or endorse in reply ... let's not track mud into Jack's parlor. ;-) ... It pisses him off. ............ Besides, Michael will be home soon, let's straighten the place up ... especially, those of us who don't want swat team babysitters next time he goes away on vacation.]
FIRE!
http://mises.org/multimedia/mp3/audiobooks/block/Undefendabl...
Notice: You have been invited to yet another meeting.
This forum has assumed the culture of the typical corporate meeting: no consistent agenda that everyone can articulate to a guest ; no enforcement of topic boundaries; facts, opinions and unsupported ramblings given equal hearing; folks talking over each other to get their unrelated agendas advertised, smirking and disparaging comments thrown at will, sarcasm offered as proof of intelligence, and no plan of action or decision reached at the end. The only measurable outcome of such a meeting is the guarantee that the meeting will spawn even more fruitless meetings.
Folks, don't be surprised that your future invitations of others to the DP meeting are increasingly declined with a continual "out of office" response. Your meeting will become known throughout the “Freedom Company” as the "calendar-filler and become increasingly insignificant to the freedom movement.
True Freedom demands maturity, license requires only adolescence.
say what?
What an idiotic idea - suppress the freedom of speech to promote the freedom movement?
END the FED before it ENDS US
END the FED before it ENDS US
DPBots
Don’t take my word for it – you can read between the lines; you can read the lines, you can observe the pattern, or the result, or you can track ( it’s not a complicated history to decipher the likes of Furlough, Danorino, jab2ur, kentmur, baubaublacksheep and other hit and runners).
But I do urge each of you ( Real DP'rs) to discern. But once you have, may I suggest you adopt a strategy that doesn’t play into Theirs.
Here’s a suggestion: If you must respond, tag them clearly; avoid escalating ( or devolving) tit for silly tat, one ‘gives it the gas’ when one wishes to defy gravity, not when is out to prove the theory. [Think about that slowly for more than a flash].
How ‘bout we try this:
Disable your standard tag so as not to unnecessarily extend the circumference of the circular jerk’n back and forth (which was Their tactical objective), then simply tag them with a short antagonizing phrase, for example:
‘ Your cover’s blown’ ( leave off the off color ba’dump, bump such a reference might evoke ... let’s just leave it implied for this experiment); or
‘We’re onto you’
‘U R B’ing 2 conspicuous’
‘This is going into your performance review’
‘May I speak with your supervisor’
... whatever short, pithy phrase occurs to you. Make it a minimalist exercise.
Don’t abuse. Self-discipline ?
Don’t lose sight of your objective.
And don’t become self-indulgent ... save the most fun for the battle you pick... on your terms.
whoops
My fault on that, I thought it was a woman. Thats not polite.
I cannot believe you have
I cannot believe you have the audacity to bring up the flat earth thing... I mean have you never heard all the photos of the globe that look round, and kind of greenish-blue from satellites are not real, it is a conspiracy. The fact that all planets are fairly round is a conspiracy too... All planets are flat, like layer upon layer of sheets on a nice Sealy postrupedic support mattress that you picked up at Rent-a-Center to impress the girl that you met at the supermarket and asked out and now you don't want to look like a total flunky, poor, ass schlub so you decked you apartment nice, got some incense, and you feel pretty good about your chances with this one...
I'm gonna break my rusty cage and run.
Steppin' out on the FLAT EARTH SUPERHIGHWAY
I would point out additionally that perspective plays a greater role in this matter than it is given credit for. For instance, when you are standing on the earth, it clearly appears flat. But when you stand far enough back from it, it just as clearly appears round. However, if you stand even further back it looks flat again. At some point, it is only a speck. You can hardly see it at all!
Changing the perspective also affects our experience of time. As you are stepping backward you will notice also that at some point it appears that Canada, Mexico and the U.S. have ALREADY merged into one continent as if ex-President George Bush and the Texas Department of Transportation have already achieved their evil schemes.
Okay who put this on the front page ?
I took it back off .
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Live like you mean it ..... Your life is your own !
http://www.randpaul2010.com
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
Thank you
For taking this blatantly divisive, ignorant, superficial, simpering, idiotic drivel off of the front page.
Whew.....glad my "friends" didn't see any of that...lol
★★★★★★
"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." --Albert Einstein
http://www.ronpaulbrochure.com/
http://www.dailypaul.com/donate
Clearly worthy of front page discussion
Please post back to the front page and allow it to naturally find its way off.
I beg your pardon?
A moderator felt it was appropriate to put this on the front page, and you overrule that person without even knowing who it is?
Talk about bias. Talk about cahones. Talk about Michael making a HUGE mistake in giving a fringer mod powers. Were you the one who put the 9/11 Truther on Fox post on the front page?
The disparagement you suffer...
causes me the greatest heartache. It is condemnable that you would be excluded from such high honor. This action besmirches your reputation, and concomitantly mine, since as you have so eloquently argued above, we are all joined at the hip. I take umbrage that your passionate electronic elocution would fall to the vagaries of another's impression, but then again, one cannot mistake the outrageous turn of fortune, the prime irony of this demotion. For, while you have argued that those not like you in passion and stance should suffer moderaton and censorshp in their topics of discussion, it is your very work that has suffered the greatest. I would remind you of the essence of a insight appropriate for just such occasion, "be careful what you wish for, for it just might come true". In the great scheme of things your very plea has returned to the lap of its maker. In the end crow is not so bad as long as you can keep your head up, remit your ways and progress with your new found knowledge and attitude. I wish you good luck.
(this reads best if you put on a deep southern accent, specifically one that mimics the regal sound of someone from Charleston, SC)
Assert Your Authority
Assert Your Authority
A "fringer"?
The vast majority of people on this site agree with him.
That moderator does not know the rules so yes I overruled it.
No I did not put that thread on the front page . I would assume since no others have claimed responsibility for it I would have to assume Michael himself did it. You do realize that he is in the same boat as over 50 percent of Americans who want a new investigation right ? I'm sure the numbers are much higher than the polls show. I do know for a fact that just in Canada it's almost 70 percent who have taken the polls and in Europe almost 80 %.
Take a good hard look at the reality of this and realize you are one of the few who are left with doubts of what reality is. Turn off your TV man !
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Live like you mean it ..... Your life is your own !
http://www.randpaul2010.com
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
?
Someone put this collectivist rant on the front page? Thanks for taking it off.
Rogue Mod?
That really needs checked into, after the zenpiper or whomever thing last week...
We are on the ~fight~ part of the Ghandi speech... let's take the gloves off.
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
No we are on the Fight part of the Ghandi Stage
You guys are clearly the majority here.
Thanks for pointing that out dude!
It's the first useful thing you've done since I've known you.. Kudos for that!
~Live life to its fullest, with an open heart, open arms and most important... an open mind~
MY BET IS ZENPIPER.
ve haf a mole in ze daily paul.
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
I still don't think or haven't heard that Zenpiper is a mod ?
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Live like you mean it ..... Your life is your own !
http://www.randpaul2010.com
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
oh he admitted it
then erased what he wrote. Supposedly.
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion911.com/
well we have a list and Zen's not on it unless someone added
to it ?
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Live like you mean it ..... Your life is your own !
http://www.randpaul2010.com
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
Too late.
This site has already been taken over by Alex Jones followers. What you're suggesting should have been done a long time ago. If they're excluded now, there will be no one left to use the site. Most of the sane people left this site a long time ago.
"Bankers are putting poison in our food and water." - Psychotic dirtbag conspiracy theorist fake-libertarian, exploiter of Dr. Paul, Alex Jones
shouldn't you be bumping...
your own divisive thread? But since you're here, instead of complaining, can you dish out some wisdom that Ron Paul might be proud of? Just humor me, give me a few original thoughts about current world events - yes this is a test to see if you have any other talent than spike driving. GO!
Assert Your Authority
Assert Your Authority
Yep!
Divide and Conquer!
Wonder who is so afraid of us?
-----------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is always the freedom of dissenters"
Rosa Luxemburg
Who is afraid of us...
those whose greed has been enslaving us.
Assert Your Authority
Assert Your Authority
don't need to read the whole post
Not worth my time. Attempts to "sanitize" the topics of discussion on DP will fail. Topics such as 911 truth are valid and important freedom issues. You can wear your own tin foil hat if you wish - with your own DHS sticker on the side - while you believe everything that you are told regardless of evidence to the contrary.
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You can pretty much understand Congress when you think of the Democrats as the Genoveses and the Republicans as the Gambinos. - Michael Ruppert (paraphrase)
Offensive, ignorant, and incendiary
You didn't read the post, but you're telling me how I feel?
Pfft.
Told you Jack...
quit telling us what to say and we'll quit telling you how you feel.
The wheel goes round and round.
Assert Your Authority
Assert Your Authority