A Soldiers Plea
Submitted by airborne373 on Wed, 11/28/2007 - 10:03RonPaulForums 260 DailyPaul "0"
I have reposted this from a couple of days ago. I am thinking the subject line I used before did not get any attention since no one from dailypaul responded.
This same request received $260.00 in donations from RonPaulForum.com members in one day. Please help this is very real and urgent. Here is you chance to really, "support the troops" for some it is not just a slogan!
Hello my name is Douglas Hostetler and I live in Indianapolis, Indiana where I sell real estate. Selling real estate is a tough business nowadays but not nearly as tough as living and working in the combat zone called Iraq. You see I wasn’t always a realtor in my younger days during the cold war I felt a need to join the U.S. Armed Forces so I talked to some recruiters, The Air Force, The Navy, My dad was a Marine in Vietnam so I skipped that recruiter (no offense “leathernecks”) and finally ended up signing with the Army. They offered me a chance to go to Airborne School after basic training and AIT and maybe become a paratrooper. Well as a 19 year old kid how could I pass? So off to FT. Knox I go to be trained as an armor crewman.
About five months later it’s time to go to FT. Benning, Georgia. I could write pages on that three week experience. It was a fantastic time and I was honored to join the Brotherhood of the Airborne. After graduating jump school the DOD sends me orders to report to the 82nd Airborne Division at FT. Bragg, North Carolina. Ok if you have been paying attention I was trained to operate tanks, so why am I going to a unit that jumps out of perfectly good airplanes?
Ft. Bragg was the home of the free world’s only Airborne Armor Unit, the 3rd Airborne BN, 73rd Armor Regiment. This is basically a forward recon unit with really big guns. Our unit would l.a.p.e.s. 17 ton Sheridan tanks from C-130’s ten feet from the dz at over 130 mph. In case you are curious no one was in the tank at the time. But this is a deadly serious business even in peace time. There is a video on my YT channel about the unit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ji5Y6b_lIs (This was one of my first vids so production quality is a little loose.)
As a paratrooper in this type of unit your entire life is about the unit and the mission.
The people you serve with become your best friends and family. These are the people you trust with your life and they each work very hard to earn that respect. I still value those relationships eighteen years later.
Last June the 3rd Squadron, 73rd Cavalry, the same unit but without the tanks, (Graham Rudman Act) deployed to Iraq. The Command Sergeant Major of this unit is my former platoon buddy from eighteen years ago. His name is Tim Davis and if you have never been in the military he is the mother and father of these young paratroopers. He is the one responsible for their lives. For the past few months I have been sending care packages of beef jerky, candy, DVD’s etc. My personal commitment was one 25lbs box per month these items are for the entire unit so it does not go far but they really appreciate this type of genuine support. So much so CSM Tim Davis called me from Iraq to tell me how much it boosts the moral of these young troopers to know people back home have not forgotten them.
Recently however I have not been able to keep up with the costs. So I have sent nothing for the last 60 days. I thought it would be easy to get help to send care packages to the troops, right! Not so. I thought I could keep my personal feelings about the war to myself and ask pro-war civilians for donations and they would jump at the chance to do something so personal. I was wrong, apparently “supporting the troops” for these people extends only to putting magnetic stickers on their SUV’s.
So I am asking Ron Paul supporters to please donate. Please give what you can at the Chip In I have set up at:
http://ronpaulsupportsourtroops.chipin.com/ron-paul-supports...
This is a great out reach to our combat troops to let them know Ron Paul believes in them.
I will be posting videos about this project at my YT channel if you would like to follow this effort please subscribe.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=airborne373
Thank you for reading.
Airborne, All The Way!

















TreatsforTroops.com
Support the troops...they would really appreciate it! And hopefully, with our support...and Ron Paul as president...they'll be home soon.
Mike
Ron Paul is my HERO!!!
"Fire Team for Freedom" on RonPaulRadio.com
Mondays and Wednesdays 10pm EST
or visit mikeandjake.com
Mike
"Fire Team for Freedom"
visit www.mikeandjake.com
Everybody please SUPPORT this cause
There are infiltrators in here who would do anything to undermine Dr. Paul's campaign even suggesting that our soldiers are a significant part of the problem and cause of the catastrophy in Iraq.
To suggest they are is simply ignorant and deceptive. Shame on you and go back to your Hitlery or Ghouliani forums and post over there.
We don't need that over here.
Support them! it is not there fault. Blame the politicians in Washington.
Few politicians have dropped a bomb or
fired a shot. 'Following orders' was not accepted as a defense in the Nuremberg Trials, and is certainly not acceptable to the dead and injured. They will rightly blame everyone who had a hand in what happened to them. That is the reality. To pretend otherwise is to deny the very humanity of the victims and the idea of right and wrong. Support doesn't mean condone, it doesn't mean excuse, and it shouldn't mean enable. Infiltrators can see, say, and think whatever they'd like. This is the internet after all.
So what is your answer..starve our soldiers?
Put them in jail? I don't get where your going? If someone is going to steal your car...or theatens your life...do you just let them? Where does that reasoning end?
These soldiers..or most at least, serve in the military with the idea they are protecting our country, the people in it and the ideals we hold dear. Is that wrong too?
Mike
Ron Paul is my HERO!!!
"Fire Team for Freedom" on RonPaulRadio.com
Mondays and Wednesdays 10pm EST
or visit mikeandjake.com
Mike
"Fire Team for Freedom"
visit www.mikeandjake.com
No, that is not my answer.
I don't necessarily have an answer. Total pacifism is clearly problematic, as that doesn't even allow you to punish common criminals or defend yourself against them. If no means is ever justified by -any- ends, then life itself is impossible. This seems close to the doctrine of 'Original Sin'. Still, just because I don't always do right, and just because the right thing is the unpopular or uncomfortable thing, doesn't mean that I'm going to pretend I don't know what the right thing is or that there is one.
You're missing the point
No, a person is going to threaten you or steal your property, they have aggressed against you. We did not go to Iraq to defend ourselves. No one is saying that we need to jail our soldiers. We just need to bring them home, stop this war, and stop calling them heroes. Being a dupe does not make you a hero, even if you feel righteous doing it.
I could not disagree with you more...
I get the impression that you were never a soldier, were you?
If you are in the military, you do not have the option to say "no." to orders. Even though it is implied in the books...you follow orders, or you are court martialed. That is why we do not see very much resistance from our troops (at least not overtly) to this invasion. We see it covertly, however...ex: the support for Ron Paul.
Now, obviously, there are a handful of the troops who have no problem committing atrocities, but that is the minority of those serving in Iraq. It is the 1% of jackasses that ruin everyone's image of the other, honorable 99% of troops.
Further, the men and women in Iraq never get any of the good press that they should (peace does not sell newspapers or garner audiences for the MSM). On the other hand, in many cases our troops take these "care packages" we send them and many times use the contents as "ice breakers" with the Iraqi people. This is especially true with Iraqi children.
You want to see a hero? Watch a soldier use a piece of "beef jerky" or a bag of M&M's s/he received in a care package and give them to an Iraqi child. Watch a soldier reach out to an invaded country with a hand of peace, even though his government sent him to commit war, without cause. It is even more heroic, when they do this selflessly and without hubris or self righteousness.
A soldier's being a hero does not stand or fall on whether they were "duped" into being a part of bad policy. A soldiers being a hero comes from their actions at the moment they deploy.
Respectfully yours -
Chaplain Steve
PS. If you are not already involved with a care package process, somewhere, be a light to our troops and let them know that we are working overtime to bring them home...in the meantime, we can send little pieces of home to them!
Until the Election is Won!
Chaplain Steve
Ron Paul - Lion of the Constitution
No, I was never a soldier...
...and I don't know the penalty for refusing to fight. I am not saying, even, that soldiers should risk being shot or thrown in prison, though if their penalty will only be a "dishonorable" discharge, I think they are obligated to accept that, in return for not being TRULY dishonorable by continuing to fight when they know it's wrong.
Nor is the argument based on atrocities by troops, nor even "collateral damage", the unintended death of civilians. If this war was won in minutes, if not one single civilian was killed, and our soldiers were the utmost gentlemen in every respect besides the brutality of war, their fighting would STILL be unjust, and they would be agents of injustice for participating.
A hero is a person that stands up and fights for what is right. A person who stands up and fights for what is wrong is not a hero, even if he thinks he's doing right. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the terrorists think they do right. Many Nazis likely thought they did right. Some thought they did right in Vietnam. Few risk their lives for things they know to be wrong. Yet how many men have fought as parts of murderous evil regimes?
Are all these men evil? No, not all of us have the luxury of being fully informed. Few have thought enough about these things in the youth when they are recruited. The enticements are tempting, the rhetoric, grandiose. Is that they are in this war their fault? Not necessarily. Is rectifying the situation as soon as possible their responsibility. Absolutely. We are all responsible for our actions, and if we do wrong unknowingly, we must do what we can to rectify the situation.
I do not claim do be a hero. I don't want your care baskets. Neither are the soldiers in Iraq heroes. They deserve neither your praise nor condemnation, penalty nor gift. Let them come home and make peace with their own conscience as they need, but throw them no parade. They have done nothing but furthered the goals of corrupt institutions, killed those we had no business killing, and wasted their own lives and our precious resources, whatever their intent.
The chaplain is right just admit it!
You have no right to judge these men and women's honor.
Like I said before...unless your going to stop eating food...that is produced by forced labor...filling your car up with gasoline that supports evil regimes... buying nearly every product on the shelves in Walmart...nearly all produced in China or other third world countries by what amounts to slave labor...you can't say your any better than the soldier.
Your an oppressor! Face it!
Mike
Ron Paul is my HERO!!!
"Fire Team for Freedom" on RonPaulRadio.com
Mondays and Wednesdays 10pm EST
or visit mikeandjake.com
Mike
"Fire Team for Freedom"
visit www.mikeandjake.com
We judge every day...
This article, in fact, asks us to judge them... as worthy of gifts and sacrifice. My own moral failings do not mean that I am incapable of seeing the situation as it is. A shame, that you do not seem capable of it.
I am no troll...
...but clearly, I have struck at the sacred cow here. Ever since burnt-out hippies in the 60s abused and reviled soldiers, many of whom were drafted, or joined under the threat of draft, people have been scared scheissless to criticize soldiers, even those acting as agents of evil agendas. Well, since we're slinging mud, let me say that you are intellectual cowards. We are all responsible for our actions, whoever's "fault" it is. I am not saying that soldiers should let themselves be killed. I don't know what to do for them. Their situation is horrible and untenable. All I know, is that they are not heroes, and that if I support them, I support their actions.
By your standards then were all evil..
Have you been in a Walmart lately? Most of the goods are being made by slave labor?
Have you used gasoline? It's being used to support numerous dictatorships.
Do you breath air? That could be used by a whale or a tree.
Again the argument stinks!
People can only do the best they can. I don't want to see Americans profiting from slavery, I don't want to see Americans soldiers killing people but it happens. I believe Ghandi, Martin Luther King and others...life is a struggle and we do the best we can...all we can do is be truthful to ourselves and our convictions and try and be an example to others. Hatred is not useful, and I would suggest that if you took a good look at yourself you may find the culprit that makes you so angry at others.
Mike
Ron Paul is my HERO!!!
"Fire Team for Freedom" on RonPaulRadio.com
Mondays and Wednesdays 10pm EST
or visit mikeandjake.com
Mike
"Fire Team for Freedom"
visit www.mikeandjake.com
Not one of us...
...has not done some evil. I will acknowledge that. Most of the things I buy, though, I buy to survive, or at most gain some modicum of comfort. I have never taken arms against another human being. Have I made some ill-informed or immoral purchasing decisions? No doubt. But then, I'm not asking for people to send me care packages either.
I am no innocent. But I am not saying we should hang the soldiers. We just shouldn't help them. And they're not heroes. They're minions.
And so are you!
Mike
Ron Paul is my HERO!!!
"Fire Team for Freedom" on RonPaulRadio.com
Mondays and Wednesdays 10pm EST
or visit mikeandjake.com
Mike
"Fire Team for Freedom"
visit www.mikeandjake.com
Support for Airborne 3rd Squadron, 73rd Cavalry
This sound like a great cause which will directly provide a bit of a break to some very deserving troops. I'm confused by this second post. I gave $50 to the chip-in almost immediately after this was posted yesterday and wrote a comment.
Sorry about the second post
I reposted to change the title. I could not find a way to edit the title on original post.
Join PyraBang the peoples search engine.
Troops Should Be Lauded, Not Ignored ...
...or bickered with as on this site.
I can't imagine signing up to serve and being sent to God-knows-where and asked to do God-knows-what.
Let's not forget, the FREEDOM we all desire - THE TROOPS are the ones actually being asked (for the moment) to lay down their lives to protect this thing called FREEDOM.
We want to elect Ron Paul to protect the freedoms that these brave soldiers have fought and died for - freedoms that the status quo are quickly ripping away right before our very eyes.
In my mind, short of assaulting me or hurting me or others in some definitive way, troops should be granted the freedom of speech that they went and fought for. They are all heroes in my mind and I say "thank you."
________________________
*** God bless Ron Paul ***
* Ron Paul For President *
______________________
*** God bless Ron Paul ***
* Ron Paul For President *
Lauded, I think not!
Lauded, for being agents of evil? We should have sympathy for them, inasmuch as they were deceived, but praise is utterly inappropriate. Further, you state that they are asked to lay down their lives for FREEDOM. Stuff and nonsense! They are asked to help install a government more amicable to our hegemony, to perpetuate our domination of the region. Saddam Hussein was no threat to us, not to our lives, not to our freedom. He was a "threat" because he wouldn't accept our interference. We prop up despots all over the world, so long as they are amicable to our corporate interests. Our politicians have sold out, and our troops are mere tools of their reckless hubris.
Hold on Now...
Allot of our men and women...have few choices. Many serve because they believe in defending our country. Many go because they have no other economic solution to their problems. Some go for the benefits of college. Once they sign the contract they have no say in where they go. At that point they are at the will of our President.
They honor their committment! And they follow their orders. And if they disobey they can be put in the brig!
Have you ever been in a situation where you are the target? Where any where you go or anything you do could put you in a life or death struggle? I know our soldiers have guns...but it isn't their intention to kill people for no reason. People do get hurt and killed for illogical reasons... not understanding the language, simply moving to fast or being in the wrong place at the wrong time... When you fear for your life sometimes the best decision isn't always the most apparent....This is why we should bring our troops home.
It isn't their fault!
Mike
Ron Paul is my HERO!!!
"Fire Team for Freedom" on RonPaulRadio.com
Mondays and Wednesdays 10pm EST
or visit mikeandjake.com
Mike
"Fire Team for Freedom"
visit www.mikeandjake.com
Lockstep Military
Our servicemen and women have to remember that just because their commanders might give them orders, there is the rule of law to contend with. So many times in history, soldiers simply went along with what they were ordered to do and THAT is how atrocities occur.
If, and when the time comes for American military personnel to be sent into U.S. cities and ordered to fire on felow citizens because we oppose some tyrant who was legally elected by an apathetic, narcistic electorate, the act will be just as evil as Hitlers stormtroopers who were "just following orders".
The tension here is between intention
and actions. An evil act is still an evil act, even if you believe you're doing good. Intention is a mitigating factor for the perpetrator, and generally moot for the victim. Motives do not equal justification. This is pretty much the role-reversed argument about 9-11. Atta had orders, Atta had motives, Atta thought he was doing right. He is still responsible for what he did, and the victims are still dead and maimed.
Unfortunately...
...the situations are not exactly parallel. Atta actually came from an oppressed people and region, where this country was actually responsible for some of that oppression. We were constantly bombing Iraq, we had taken sides with Israel, we have bases in their holy lands. We have manipulated their governments and propped up petty dictators (including Saddam) for decades. The last hundred years is a story of Western disregard for the peoples of the Middle East.
Contrarily, Saddam had no bases on our soil. His pathetic and broken military was not much of a threat even to his neighbors when we last invaded, much less us. He had no real links to Al Quaeda. Most of the individuals in the towers were not the ones responsible for their oppression, at least not directly, and the terrorists indeed meant to strike them. But it is easy for the mightiest military power on earth to say we should strike only at military targets. We will always win against an actual military, unless our generals really bungle things. The terrorists, people whose nations will not stand up to the United States, and whose forces would fail even if they did, have the choice of being meaninglessly crushed by attacking our strength, or making an impact by attacking our weakness.
I didn't mean to suggest that the situations were
exactly parallel. I was simply trying to point out the (I would think) uncontroversial ideas that 1) Killed people experience loss regardless of their killers' motives, and 2) The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
OUR BOYS
I dont see how supporting these boys and girls by showing them that the people of the USA are thinking of them and thier safe return home is a bad thing? We could enclose articles and dvds for them to watch on Ron Paul and also things happening here they are not seeing. This would also have a positive affect on the campaign we would be supporting them!. Remember they were fed the same lies as the rest of us. They are still being fed those lies. They still think they are liberating a country! This could be a way to get the message to them. They stood up when they thought it was the right thing to do, lets not turn our back on them. Thank You.
Boy, am I gonna get flamed...
Look, I have sympathy for those in the armed forces... to a degree. On the other hand, they signed up to be deployed at the whim of scumbag politicians, and if in Iraq are now participating in an unjustified war. In that they are unjustified being there, every person they kill is a murder. Is it their murder? Not totally. But frankly, I'm am ill-disposed to sacrificing in any way to send care packages to agents of the hubris-addled goons that constitute our government. In as much as they are strengthened, in their bodies or their resolve, I would be helping to unjustly kill people.
I won't stand for it.
Our Son joined the National Guard in 1999. He hoped to benefit from some GI benefits. We watched him go through basic training and watched him become a fine soldier. As it was pre 9-11 we never guessed that he would be going to Afghanistan in 2003 for 1 year and leaving a new wife and a 2 month old daughter behind. Thank God he came home alive and uninjured.
I am deeply offended when people say " well he enlisted." Absolutely no compassion for what his family or what our Son experienced that year.
Now our Son always says he is just doing his job and doesn't expect any praise. But as his parents I'll be darned if we'll will sit back and let anyone demean his service to his country. Like Ron Paul says, I won't stand for it.
What's 'won't stand for it' mean?
While your son is halfway around the world, in ANOTHER soverign nation, supposedly defending the United States?, you say you will not tolerate another citizen opposing this action? Excuse me, but that sounds pretty facist. We sat back and allowed our own government to waste over 57,000 young, good Americans in Vietnam. As noble as the intentions might have been by patriotic Americans like you, back then, WE WERE USED. And you might not believe it, but we really love and care about the troops. We do not want them to die and kill for a cause that has absolutely nothing to do with the defense of our lands. If and when the time comes to fight for our homeland, I and most of the opposition to this conflict wil take up arms to stop any invaders. But the only winners of the Iraq boondoggle, just as Vietnam was, are the power elite who are using and abusing your son. I am sorry, and will say a prayer for you and him tonight.
Hum...
I do have extra sympathy in your case, since really, no one in the National Guard should ever be sent to fight in a foreign land. Their duty is to this soil, no one else, and I'm very sorry he was truly lied to in this way.
ignorant
spoken like a true asshole.
Obviously you have never served in the military.
People dont sign up to "be deployed at the whim of scumbag politicians". I dont recall that being part of the oath that we took. We signed up to protect OUR country from enemies, foreign and domestic.
Unfortunately, many with good intentions who do sign up get dragged into conflict by crocked polititions. Most get lied to by their recruiter. Reservists, many who traditionally would be back-filling active-duty jobs here in the states for those deployed; instead end up getting deployed to Iraq, into positions outside of their area of expertese. These reservists often experience a substancial reduction in pay from their normal earnings in their civilian career. Their families suffer, they can lose their homes. The politicians put in "stop loss" programs to force those who have completed their service requirements, and thus should be eligable to get out, to re-enlist, regardless of if they want out..
Many in the military are forced to kill. They dont want to be killed. They dont want to be in a position of killing others. Some are unfortunately uneducated, some unfortunately are bad people. You will have rapist, and robers, and murders. That is a part of society and there is a small percentage of those who make it into the service. But this is war! War IS hell on earth. The only ones fighting by rules, are the majority of our soldiers. The enemy has no constraints, so we are forced to fight with a hand tied behind our backs...
There arent many jobs where there is a high likelyhood of being killed every day. Usually those jobs, in a free market would earn a higher income. Troops arent making very much at all, certainly less then most white collar jobs. They arent getting rich fighting for this country.
Whatever you position on the war might be, the last person to be going after are those individuals who choose to serve. They keep people like you from geting drafted. You might consider being a little more kind when you talk about them.
Assholes like you probably either did, or would have, spat on my father when he returned from his tour in Vietnam.
They knew...
...when they signed up, that they would be expected to follow orders without question. They trusted their lives and their actions to THE GOVERNMENT. They were not wicked in this, but they WERE fools, and now they are made to do wickedness. Your arguments could support the troops of any imperialist, belligerent power... as we have become. No one forced them to enter. Laziness of thought, laziness of investigation, buying into the propoganda, these are all things they are guilty of. At the same time, I do not propose we condemn them by any trial, nor that we spit on them as they come home. But they need to come home. They are not innocents in this, and we should not be so cowardly as to be unwilling to point out the moral wrongness of their actions. Nor should we do ANYTHING to support them in doing wrong, whether at this point it is by choice or not.