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Libertarians should be reaching out to the gay and lesbian community! Edit2

With Obama and the rest of the Dems spitting in the face of the gay and lesbian community every chance they get now that the election is over, we have a chance to expand our numbers and we don't have to compromise any of our beliefs! This is an opportunity that libertarian groups should be actively trying to take advantage of.


As RP has said, the government should not be involved in the marriage issue. However they have actively shoved their noses into it every chance they got. There are many rights given by the government to couples that get married. However the government has decided they get to decide which religious ceremonies are valid and which are not. This is as blatant as a violation of the separation between church and state as you will get! Either the government should recognize all religious ceremonies or none at all.

Look, if the government shouldn't be able to selectively give different rights to the couples based on whether the government approves of that couple or not. Libertarians should take the view that either the government doesn't give special rights to people who are married or it gives the right to all couples, regardless of the governments feeling on that couple. I say we push for marriage no longer be mentioned in any government documents, only civil unions (we don't want marriage and civil unions - our govt has tried 'separate but equal' before) and that legally binding coupling is open to anyone as long as they are of age and do so willingly, and leave marriage up to individual religious organizations.

And I haven't even touched Don't Ask Don't Tell yet. This is a policy by the federal government stating that you can only serve in a government organization (the armed forces) as long as you hide a fact about yourself that we don't like, even though it has no effect on your ability to do your job as a solder. Think about that! The govt telling you you have to hide your personality even though it has nothing to do with the job you're doing for the govt. This should be bullet point one when we point out that the govt has needlessly involved itself in what should be a private matter!

Look, I understand some people might not agree with the gay or lesbian lifestyle and I understand the 'icky' factor. But this is a logical extension of what we believe. I'm talking about reaching out and expanding our base to a vocal and active group of people who strongly believe in having the personal freedom to live life as you choose. If you'll excuse the pun, this is a marriage made in heaven!

EDIT: I'm seeing a lot of talk in the comments about going to gay and gay friendly websites and inviting them to join us. That's good. But we can't forget that it's not enough to ask them to join us, WE HAVE TO JOIN THEM. When we talk about govt intrusion in our lives, DADT should be at the top of the list. Libertarian speakers/mailing/everything need to go out of their way to mention their cause. The fact is most of us are former Republicans. Republicans have a bad rap of saying they're for small govt and less spending, but then doing the opposite. That's why most of us left that party. We have to show them that we're not like that, and that we will fight for their cause even if they don't join us for ours. That's how we will gain their respect and hopefully support. And even if they don't leave the Dems, we still do fight for them because it's the right thing to do.

EDIT 2: Alright, some people seem to be misunderstanding (in some cases purposely) what I am saying there. So to clarify, I am not claiming we should fight for extra rights for gays. I am not saying the govt should help gays push their believes on others. I am certainly not saying that pastors should not be allowed to preach about certain passages in the Bible.

What I am pointing out is that there is a large, active, vocal, and disproportionately voting group of people who are likely to feel betrayed by the people they voted for. I am willing to bet that many of these people would be particularly respective to the idea of limited govt right about now. Not all of them. Some of them do want extra rights and want the govt to fight on their behalf against people who have the right to think that what they are doing is wrong. But all many of them want is the govt not to care who they are sleeping with as long as it's consensual. And I think most of don't want the govt to care who we are sleeping with as long as it's consensual. So we have a point of common interest - we don't want the govt in our bedrooms. So all we have to do to get many of them to join us is make sure they know we don't want the govt in anyone's bedroom. That's right, all we have to do to increase our numbers is to say we don't want the govt in our bedrooms. Seems like a good idea to me then to publicly mention that fact.

As far as people saying that if they believe what we believe they've already likely to join us, if we take that view we are screwed. Royally and totally screwed. If everyone out there already knows our message and if they agree with it have already joined us, and we didn't do any better last election, we must as well close shop. It's over. But I don't think anyone here believes that. Many people haven't heard of us, or at least don't clearly understand what we stand for. Some do and agree with us, but just need a little push, an invite, a welcome mat, something to let them know that we are indeed the biggest tent in politics. To increase our numbers we need to let them know why a limited govt is the best possible govt for them. To the pot smokers, we tell them that a limited govt doesn't tell them what to put in their bodies. To people concerned about money issues, we tell them that ending the Fed keeps the dollar strong and keeps them from paying the inflation tax. To gays, we tell them that a limited govt doesn't care who they love.


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Sarge likes [edited] (it seems)

I think it is not the mere fact that you do not agree with the concept of equality for all relative to the government (which would include gays) which makes your behavior suspect. Rather it's your violent reaction to the topic which might lead one to believe that their is an inner war for your mind.

This is a war on morals

This is also a battle for your mind. Its a pys-ops attack.

If you don't conform to their group think then you yourself must be a gay for not agreeing with them. Its doublethink.

If I don't agree with them then that makes me gay? See. Double think.

Hell, they eat there own. If a gay male and partner joined our movement they would be cast out of the gay community. Thrown to the wolves as it where. They are losing supporters and seeing our numbers rise.

Thus we have devise thread like this one on here.

This goes out to all the freedom loving gays who see bi government and don't want them in their bedroom. We know your out there and we welcome you.

We don't attack those who say "I gay. I just don't like the straight life style." As long as you are here for liberty and freedom you will have a place in the revolution. This poster...sunburn...has a divide an dissolve thing going. Along with his partner.

We are the freedom movement. We don't care if your GLBT. We care about freedom. If your with us then more power to you.

Please, don't hate the straight.

This topic affects my family.

The topic of gay marriage or unions is not too big of an issue in my family. When the topic is discussed I will always pose the question as to why recognition is being asked from an entity that has no business in the spiritual union of marrige or its equivalent. The topic always comes back to why the government, state or federal, doesn't extend the same recognition to same sex couples. I tend to feel for the LBGT community in this regard. Doesn't extend the conversation too much, just thought I would share.

Think for yourself. Question authority.

This is the true point of it all

Watch it..And see for yourself
First They Came

Freedom is another way to God...A corrupt government is a straight way to hell.

I believe in Hope & Change..I Hope the government will Change
Spindale-Rutherford County-North Carolina


"Better to be flexible like bamboo than rigid like oak, for when the storm comes bamboo will bend and survive, where as oak will crack and die."

"The world is a dynamic mess of jiggling things, if you look at it right." - Richard Feynman

i saw this on the rachel maddow show last night


it's about doma and how the obama administration is defending it using the same absolutely disgusting arguments as the bush administration.

it's too bad bob barr authored this nonsense during his time in congress.

Thanks For Sharing That

It was an interesting discussion of the politics and polititians ( and their methods) at issue.

i thought so too.

don't care much for what howard dean does, but this discussion was a good one, and it's great she calls out the oDoma abministration.

photoshopwiz's picture

decent exchange

and good on rachel for calling out the-administration-that-will-eventually-break-your-heart

send this to rachel ... from my earlier post ...

I had heard this interview nearly two years ago and was highly impressed with Ron Paul's decency and compassion ... and absolute refusal to be baited by the smarmy evangelical interviewer with his leading questions.

Ron Paul on Homosexuality

Thanks For The Reprise

What a contrast from the standard pandering and blowing of smoke inherent in the political class.

I'm outta here

If gays had no rights, this would never have occurred

Nice shorts.

Who said they have no rights, my only point is the government is not treating gay people and straight people equally. Something none of you will debate me on.

In what way are they treated differently by government?

I have seen you list nothing that government has any control over currently. I'll debate you tomorrow night if you want, but give me examples of GOVERNMENT discrimination.

Here's Two

There are two clear examples of government discrimination against the LGBT community.

The first is Don't Ask, Don't Tell, which prevents gays and lesbians from serving openly. 65% of America, even a majority of conservatives, feel this policy is wrong. Military service should depend on performance, not sexual identity. Most problems with sexual harassment in the military are male on female.

The second is the Defense of Marriage Act. Right now I can legally be married to my partner of 10 years in 6 states. But that marriage will not be recognized by the federal government, this in spite of the fact that 65% of America supports either gay marriage or civil unions.

Because I am gay, I am a second class citizen in my own country. If we are going to preach about liberty, then we first need to secure equality under the law for all Americans.


I think we both agree government should not be in marriage but it is and it uses that institution to grant extra privileges to straight people.

Military service, Gay people are and have always been in the military, but should you be known to be gay, your right to that employment is ended.

Adoption and guardian assignments.

Ill post some more tomorrow

Aren't marriage licenses

issued by the government?

The County government, yes.

But they're meaningless really. Has anyone ever asked to see your marriage license?

yes. if you rest in monasteries,

dharamsalas or ashrams, you'll be asked for your marriage license if you plan on sleeping in the same room with your partner until a new system of identifying your marriage is accepted.


I didn't know you meant federal discrimination versus local discrimination. And yes, I was asked for my marriage license when I changed my last name.

Not unless

I was willing to pay a lot of money!

freedom ain't free


I would never

have paid a dime to take my husband's last name! I loved my maiden name.

The whole marriage license concept is discriminatory

It's a scam orginally construed to keep blacks from marrying whites, now it's used to keep gays from marrying each other. I don't know why people need masta's approval so badly.

I agree

I would like marriage to be in the hands of the churches instead of the government. Unfortunately, we're not living in an ideal world and currently the government has it's paws in it, and some people would argue that's a good thing because it helps prevent polygamy and underage marriages, so it's not likely to change anytime soon.

It may be real, but it's still meaningless

None of my dogs have ever had a license, they were no less dogs. Besides the "official document", how else does the government discriminate? I don't see it.

It becomes an issue

when couples separate, either through divorce or death. Imagine sharing your life with a partner for decades, only to lose everything you shared to your partner's unaccepting family, because you have no legal rights to your "spouse's" property because you were never legally married.

thats a good point

This actually happens allot, family who haven’t talked to their brother for 30 years will take away everything. The partner may not even know these people exist.

Couldn't they write a will?

I agree that's not fair, but it seems unusual. Does the government cause that or does an intolerant family cause it?