Constitutional Republic = Slavery :-)
If anarchy is, in the opinion of others, communism then I see no reason for me to not share with you that any government or constitutional republic enslaves every person it claims dominion over.
Face it; the federal government declares what rules it will impose upon you whether you like it or not. They declare how much of your property they will take, how much of your labor is theirs, and what punishment you will face if you resist them. You are not free.
For those of you still suffering from the delusion that the government of the 'founding fathers' was any better, I'd encourage you to read up on the times immediately following the signing the US Constitution when those men were in office. See how those men used the power that they created. See who they took property from. See what lengths they went to to take what wasn't theirs.
If you're calling for a Constitutional Republic, then you want to continue slavery. Am I your slave?
***One of the individuals with moderation abilities keeps adding a ? to my title. I find it cute. Would you care to identify yourself, mystery moderator? And would you care to reveal why you keep doing it?
You bring up important
You bring up important issues, but again, it seems that all you want to do is throw away the baby with the bath water. I've read through your post and comments, but all I seem to get is some abstract idea about your concept of anarchy.
Nothing about how it is acheived.
Limited government is possible and perhaps even to the point of anarchy, per the pure definition of no rulers, with the Constitution. What it requires is that like minded individuals become active, run for political office, from the top position for president all the way down to the lowest local political position. Then with the authority given to them by the Constitution they can pull the government off the backs of the people.
They can even voluteer if the are true to their word.
grant
I have a plan that will work!
If everyone said to themselves "I won't steal from my neighbors or force them to do things against their will, and I'll only use force to defend myself and my property from aggression" and stuck to it, things would be just fine. How's that for a plan?
The only problem with your plan is that *everyone* has to do it.
Any plan that requires the complete co-operation of all human beings on the planet at all times looks like a non-starter to me.
If a few bad guys get organised, what happens next?
"I believe the true significance of the Gold Commission is that the politicians and central bankers were so alarmed at such a thing that they made sure it was packed by an array of Keynesians and monetarists." (Ron Paul 1985)
I will take my chances
You are being obstinate, now. If someone does me harm, I go to them and attempt to set things straight. If the two of us cannot work it out, we ask a neighbor to mediate.
If a group of bad guys gets together, a bigger group of good guys would have to get together and take care of it. Or, you could call 9-1-1 and wait for the policemen to come, take your statement, tazer you and drag you to jail for "resisting arrest." You say YOU were the one who called to be protected? Wow, bad day in the world of "law and order" I guess.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
You really don't understand the concept of cooperating...
...voluntarilly with people, do you?
Tell you what. Those hypothetical bad guys would have some issues when dealing with my hypothetical security contractor and the other organizations that my hypothetical security contractor made agreements with. Not to mention the fact that I'd probably have come to some kind of voluntary agreement with my neighbors for our mutual defense.
I don't need to threaten and steal from people to make my system work. Do you need to threaten and steal from people to make your work?
Actually, history offers a
Actually, history offers a perfect example of anarchy, that was after the breakdown of the "holy" Roman Empire. It was not the most desirable time in which to live, but there was no government, there was anarchy to be sure.
Eventually, there arose a system of lords and vassals which set the stage for a fully developed feudal system that lasted for centuries. Divisions within society developed, based on certain types of cooperation and the need for protection. Class structures also developed that stratified society to the extreme.
http://www.1776solution.blogspot.com
“There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.”-Adams
http://militantjeffersonian.com
"Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The People like those best who fool them most, by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles" Raphael Semmes
"If a few bad guys get organised, what happens next?"
They open a bank?
Explore Orthodox Christianity
You're way ahead of me.
That's a few steps down the road.
"I believe the true significance of the Gold Commission is that the politicians and central bankers were so alarmed at such a thing that they made sure it was packed by an array of Keynesians and monetarists." (Ron Paul 1985)
That would work for a Constitutional Republic as well
You do not need to have an absence of collective individual agreement on objective law and legal/political institutions in order to have a free society. The argument comes down to whether the most effective defense of individuals against aggressive force and fraud is by creating a single entity or allowing competing entities, but seriously, either way an education in the non-aggression principle and the laws of creation is heavily needed for either to be successful. Let's work together on that as opposed to infighting over hair splitting as compared to the current epic car crash.
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Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
Sounds great, in a perfect
Sounds great, in a perfect world, but you would never be able to leave you property un-guarded, because there will always be someone that envies the property of others. Society would have to splinter into millions of family clans for protection.
--------------------------------------
Repeal the 17th Amendment!
http://www.meetup.com/The-National-17th-Amendment-Group/
Moderators
Since moderators chose to edit the title to include a question mark (a more valid title and more in line with the site as a whole) (twice) and the individual who posted the thread decided to change it back (twice), I think the question mark should be re-added and the contents of the post itself (including title) SHOULD BE LOCKED.
Folks going rogue with rage, without having proven a thing, and in contrast to the stated aim of the site, should not be able to tread all over the private property here.
None, please respect the moderators of this privately-owned site. Or do you go in people's homes and start readjusting their furniture in your image without their permission?
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Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
Speech is only free for those who agree I guess.
The logical inconsistencies abound.
Tell me constitutionalists. Why the censorship and 3rd party editing? I thought you all believed in free speech. I guess not when it's on 'your property' huh? Looks like you want to have it both ways. Either you allow free speech or you don't. Which is it? Either the constitution rules and I can speak my mind wherever and whenever I choose as I choose, or you have the right to censor me on or prohibit me from accessing your property.
Do you want liberty, or just for the rulers you want and the rules you dictate to be followed?
Another point
If someone came in and posted a topic entitled "F_ck you all" would it be righteous for the moderators to alter this topic? Or would that be an abridgment of someone's free speech "rights" in this privately-owned forum?
Your lack of awareness on this topic, combine with your zeal to "promote" your perspective, come across as rather trollish.
What's your point Vanessa?
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Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
Question
Do I have a "right" to come into your home and start screaming at your family?
Is that protected free speech?
With all your push for anarchism and respect for others' property rights, it would seem you have an intense fail when it comes to understanding how private property rights work.
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Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
So you do believe in property rights after all
I don't tout my home or my property as a location where people are encouraged to 'restore' a document that pruports to have the magical power to restrain a bunch of self empowered sociopaths from abridging my speech though, do I?
How can you not see the logical inconsistency in your argument?
He is doing that
to bother you... Damn I posted again on this forum.
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Well
That simply proves his character.
_________________________________
Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
Oh he's already admitted to
actively trolling.. He's not being moderated. So in all reality I should be able to say (edited) and not have to worry about being kicked off this site.
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title edited-mod
Of epic proportions. Could this (edited) be backing the mods? Are the mods (edited) this guy?
Or is this guy a (edited)
Strange times indeed. I feel that the rogue mod is still on the (edited)
WTF?
WTF!!!
I get your point...
But it is purely philosophical. Anarchy is short-lived in the real world. Someone will use the power vacuum it creates to impose some kind of government. Happens every time. The trick is to come up with a way of keeping inevitable government from going insane. The Constitution is the best real world implementation of that.
What's your solution? How would you bring about anarchy in a nation of 300 million non-anarchists? Perhaps Antarctica is ripe for that.
This site is about Ron Paul. He's not an anarchist. Neither are we for the most part. We are here because we want to help and promote Dr. Paul's agenda, which moves strongly in your direction from the present catastrophe. Are you here to help?
Sam Marsh
Musician
http://www.myspace.com/screwthebastards
Sam Marsh
Musician
http://www.myspace.com/screwthebastards
Ron Paul supports anarchy
Ron Paul was asked in this video at 3:55:
"What do you say to people who advocate self-government, rather than a return to the Constitution?"
Ron Paul: "Fine, I think that's really what my goal is."
I'm curious...
The world is a big place. I'm assuming you are an American citizen. If so, why are you still here? There are no armed guards at patrol towers who will force you to stay a US citizen.
Want to live free of government? Buy a boat and live on the seas. Be a fisherman, or develop some sort of profession that lets you live out of a suitcase with a modem.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Do you have any idea how much more of my property I'd loose?
First off, I own my property, thanks. And I like my property. Who are you to suggest I leave?
As for expatriating, you seem completely unaware of the fact that the federal government demands and extracts an even larger amount of property from those who elect to leave than they do from the captives who stay. 'Free' to leave isn't free. Look it up.
I'd beg to differ.
Look on your mortgage contract and see where you signed, I bet the word on there is TENANT not landowner.
Owning land (landowner) and owning real estate are two completely different things. If you OWN something you don't pay taxes on it. Think about it.
Here is a topic I started at teamlaw. The admin was kind enough to provide a very intriguing answer.
http://www.teamlawproductions.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=...
I reserve the right to govern myself.
I reserve the right to govern myself.
I'm an expat.
I know what you are alluding to and you seem to have some misconceptions. Either that, or you are using them as a convenient excuse.
"you seem completely unaware of the fact that the federal government demands and extracts an even larger amount of property from those who elect to leave than they do from the captives who stay."
That isn't true. If you can't get you and yours out of the country with all your property then you must be trying VERY hard to get noticed by the government.
Ron Paul "Sign Wave Across the USA" -- November 5th!
Who are you to suggest I
I am curious, as I said. You are not required to stay here.
As for tax technicalities...I thought you were an anarchist? Are we all supposed to take care of you? Or are you the master of your own life? You don't even own your own life enough to thumb your nose at tax regulations from a country you don't want to be a part of?
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Tell me what happens to those who disobey the government
Assume I resist every effort of theirs to collect, up to and including me attempting to defend myself from being kidnapped by them. What happens then?
Choose what's most important to you, then.
You own your life. I don't blame you for detesting the US government one bit. It is detestable.
However, they have not yet sealed the borders to keep people in. Some of us, like myself, choose to stay here and pay taxes and obey all the stupid laws.
You are free to leave. Make your decisions about what you will do with your money and property accordingly. Why stay in a country with a government you hate? I would think the first step to being an anarchist would be a sense of self-ownership.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Well you might want to start explaining
who you are and where you are. Because at this point you're all talk and not gaining much of a following.
Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/
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