If it's supposed to be "government by, for, and of the people"...then why can't we directly govern ourselves?
Submitted by atrickpay on Fri, 06/19/2009 - 18:16
Why do need to "vote" and "elect" (by awful majoritian principles) and turn over our governance to 3rd party agents? What about the idea of self-governance?
It seems to me that that idea has never really been understood in this country, even though lip service is routinely paid to it.
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Because
real self-governance is not a system that is as profitable for commercial interests as the one we have. Just sayin'.
A Free Society can not exist.....
....When it is supplanted, corralled and controlled by a centralized private industrial BANK.
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/reserve.htm
A free society has never existed where such things, are reality..
This country is a constitutional republic. Of States. Not England's private piggy bank of tyranny called "deMOCKracy".
Snake Oil
Is for snakes. There is no such thing as a "constitutional republic". You can't have both. A republic is ran by the people for the people. We had it once BEFORE the CONstitution. A "constitutional republic" is ran by a centralized group pretending to dictate it's powers from the people.
Let's all live in pretend land. Buy your snake oil....It's good for you.
You don't know what the constitution even says..
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I know that it doesn't have my name in it anywhere
And that I never agreed to it's terms. For actual legal agreements, that's enough for it not to apply to me.
We will govern ourselves once you start working on exposing
the lie.
Very simple.
Watch Money masters.
Get everyone you know to watch it. It was written by scholars..not youtube filmmaker wannabes.
Once enough people know the truth....we will govern ourselves.
Stay away from the media....they just keep telling you you can't .
Unify
Maybe you just need some group experience where there isn't
any 'organization' and see what happens! ha ha ha
Atrickpay, the Founders....
considered our constitutional republic to BE self rule:
"A popular Government without popular information, or the means of acquiring, it is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy, or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance: And a people who mean to be their own Governors, must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives. ~James Madison, Letter to W.T. Barry (1822-08-04)
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"I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion." ~Thomas Jefferson, Letter to William Charles Jarvis (September 28, 1820)
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"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question." ~Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address (4 March 1801)
I imagine that what you mean by self government is no organized government at all.
The reason that anarchy won't work is the same reason that our constitutional republic isn't working very well.
It's a little bit like trying to start a choir and not enough people show up who can sing well. What are you going to do? Cancel the choir altogether? Hold auditions and throw out everybody else? Just have a sorry choir? Or teach them all how to sing?
We could improve our situation a thousand fold if we would but teach everyone how to be a good citizen in a constitutional republic. I'm not talking about getting the government to teach them, mind you, but about us doing it ourselves.
Jack Pelham
Rule of Law Revolution
www.ruleoflawrevolution.com
Jack Pelham
www.jackpelham.com
www.ruleoflawrestoration.com
good wittle citizens
Be a good wittle citizen and stop advocating the initiation of violence against others who don't subscribe to your rule of law scenario.
Points well made,I would
Points well made,I would also add that allowing everyone to vote has lead to this bastardized republic.Just as carrying a gun or driving a car,one must know how to use them at the least,and in my opinion the most,voting should be looked at the same way,because if the voter is not well informed then you have government with no bounds to which they operate.
I favor a amendment in all state constitutions requiring voters to take a test to determine if they are competent in participating in elections.This would serve the people better and not exclude anyone on sex,race or prior servitude...
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"All human constitutions are subject to corruption and must perish unless they are timely renewed and reduced to their first principles.'" --Thomas Jefferson
"A government of reason is better than one of force." --Thomas Jefferson to Richard Rush, 1820
Jeff, I think it was already bastardized.
This had already happened before the voting amendments were ratified:
1868. 14th Amendment. The 14th provided an incentive for allowing all males 21 or older the right to vote. (If your state didn't allow it, you lost seats in the US House.)
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1870. 15th Amendment. "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."
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1913. 17th Amendment. The public gets to vote directly for US Senators where they had no such power before.
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1920. 19th Amendment. "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. " This recognized the right of women to vote, of course.
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1964. 24th Amendment. Prohibited keeping people from voting for failure to pay a poll tax. Such poll taxes had been implemented to keep poorer people (and especially blacks) from voting.
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1971. 26th Amendment. "The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age."
All these amendments occurred AFTER the Civil War period, during which more violations of the Constitution occurred than at any other time in the nation's history (with the possible exception of this present decade).
Thus, I submit that it was not the spreading of the right to vote that caused such problems, but rather, that those voting were either corrupt or ill-educated. We are no worse off for having 200 million bad voters than we were when we had only two million----or if we are, it's not by much.
I think that either way, the solution is to create the mother of all educational campaigns and to keep it forever switched on. Give me a million volunteers and a $10 Million budget and we'll make a big splash really fast.
Jack Pelham
Rule of Law Revolution
www.ruleoflawrevolution.com
Jack Pelham
www.jackpelham.com
www.ruleoflawrestoration.com
Self rule is all about following other's rules, right Jack?
It's truly pathetic to think that you're serious in your attempt to equate the rule of government by force with the ruling of one's own self.
Because it gets in the way...
of the moneychangers profits! www.takeourworldback.com
My karma ran over your dogma~
My karma ran over your dogma~
Electing "Leaders" is the biggest Shell Game
it's worse because we do it to ourselves; rather than self-help it's self-shell, hahaha.
It's simple.
You hire a "Leader" who has a 1/435th vote for $150,000 per year and a 1,000,000 per year budget -- who then promises you to fight for your "self-rule" (liberty)?
You hire them -- meaning "getting your liberty" is how they get paid; then you expect them to fall on their sword? They are "getting your liberty" meaning its a process that when it lasts longer they get paid more and you expect them to fight quickly? Riiiiiiiiigggghhhht.
Are you the folks who give the knowing smile at Einsteins definition of isanity; as if it doesn't apply to you?
Appreciate Ron Paul (he is the exception that was/is here without The Revolution's Help -- End the fantasy that you will find other's like him. Stop hiring "more" leaders to give you back self-abdicated liberty.
How would we behave in a free-society?
1) Would we pay taxes?
2) Would we be sub-contractors or employees (do the latter even exist in a free-society)?
3) Would we buy products from corporatist or buy from consumer-dependent-owners?
Maybe we need to start acting this way now.
1) Work more and more under-the-table
2) Hire people under-the-table
3) Get rid of all big ticket assets (prices are going to fall anyway) -- rent for the next few years -- thus; eliminating "leverage."
4) Buy local services and Buy local organic food (as much as possible)
5) Start a Housing Association and develop alternative power sources -- you can get more done as a group given un-sound money values.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
When was the last time
When was the last time someone was elected to give us more liberty besides Paul/Ventura etc? People are elected to give out grab bags full of services and candy, especially Democrats. The Republicans you could say are more insidious as they are voted in to promote limited government, although its not hard to blame the ignorance of the voting public for the caliber of candidate in the GOP these days.
AS far as your 8 points:
1.I would. Its either taxes to the state for protection or taxes to the defense corporation and private contract system for protection and legislation/law enforcement. You might even pay HIGHER taxes in the private system, because the Constitution acts as a floor on how much protection the state can give you thanks to the bill of rights.
2.lol, does Mcdonalds exist in a free society?
3.Corporatist because their goods are cheaper. Think about how many socialist-minded americans shop at Wal Mart even though they hate the big corporations. Now imagine the anarcho-capitalist or even minarchist free society, which would require that people from the get go understand the market or they would revolt. Therefore, they would always pursue the best deal.
4.Illegal
5.Illegal
6.Real Estate is so low though, AND it could jump if we have inflation.
7.Good idea
8.Good idea
Ventura 2012
Bmore: I'm not always sure when you are joking
I will assume your questions aren't retorical sarcasm, hahaha.
- No there's no McDonalds in a free-market (no factory farm beef-pork-chicke, no corn subsidies, no potato subsidies)
- No, private defense is always cheaper -- becase we only defend against "real world" threats not imaginary ones -- Also, as wealth is dispursed (owing to how wealthy seek profits in free-markets) there are no high value assets in one location. All Guns are Concealed. Gun Culture.
- Corporatist Goods are more expensive because of "hidden costs (taxes)"
Octobox
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
Again with the utopian belief in the right people having power
When are you going to really look at your argument,
that we need to select a few of those mean nasty people and give those same mean nasty people power over us by making them part of the government.
That is what you are saying, that by taking an oath to uphold the law, and then 99 per cent of them turn around and disobey the law with the next breath, that somehow they have become better than the rest of us, they will never be corrupted by power.
Come on
blame game, check it at the door
Because men & people fail you , you condemn the PROCCESS ??
you-no
Again all we need is wise beneficient Rulers
Yeah right, the majority of sociopaths are attracted to the immunities for bad behavior to the state.
So you want to believe that maybe sometime we will get the philosopher kings of legend if we keep trying the same thing over and over again.
because people are mean and
because people are mean and nasty and like to hurt each other. Even you an-caps have a convuluted scheme full of socially binding contracts.
Ventura 2012
For a very good answer....
see today's commentary by Frank S Rosenbloom @ wnd.com--Obama vs. the founders
www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=102536
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Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make..
Libera me......from this dark dream, to the life-stream! --Leslie Phillips
What's next after End the Fed? Repeal the XVI and XVII Amendments!
But that man should play the tyrant over God, and find Him a better man than himself, is astonishing drama indeed!~~D. Sayers
There is no difference between an authoritarian government from the right or the left...F. A.Schaeffer
"Please Mr Government Man, can I govern myself?"
That crap has NEVER worked. It never will.
If you want to know what can work - for a while at least - study the American revolution.
"I believe the true significance of the Gold Commission is that the politicians and central bankers were so alarmed at such a thing that they made sure it was packed by an array of Keynesians and monetarists." (Ron Paul 1985)
First off...
look who made the comment. Lincoln was no believer in small government or the 10th amendment. Unfortunately society then, as now, did not uphold the high ideals of all men (and women) being free to pursue their own life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. The lasting outcome of Mr. Lincoln's war was the 14th amendment and slavery for all, not just a select few. He should have put it clearer and just let everyone know that "slavery" was now equally a burden applied to all.
Assert Your Authority
Assert Your Authority
Central Government is a protection racket
Call it what you want, communism, socialism, democracy, a republic, monarchy, whatever, abide willingly or be forced to, because you will be assimilated, or die.
Ask the 200 million people that were killed in the 20th Century by their own governments.
There's a reason why the 2nd Amendment comes after the 1st!
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"The consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of the ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded it."
- Robert E. Lee, 1866
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RON PAUL 2012
A centralized government is the creation of a centralized bank..
And it all comes back to the bank doesn't it.......
The Federal Reserve centralized all our institutions under one umbrella of tyranny.....Technically, it shouldn't have existed.
You want the people who
You want the people who elected Obama to have the power of self-governance? At least now there's a congress and a court system to slow down the idiocy (even if its just a little). Can you imagine the MSM inspiring the sheeple to vote for new laws to protect them from all kinds of dangers? Ours isn't a perfect system but it beats the hell out of the sheeple being able to self-govern.
They already have it, Bob.
They already have it, Bob. Voting IS self governance. And this right has been squandered for nearly 220 years---in increasing measure, ever since the Constitution was ratified. Many people have voted quite foolishly since their right to vote was first recognized. As most men are poor leaders, they tend to follow whatever they see around them. If ever there was a time when wise and courageous leaders were needed, it is now.
Jack Pelham
Rule of Law Revolution
www.ruleoflawrevolution.com
Jack Pelham
www.jackpelham.com
www.ruleoflawrestoration.com
You TROLL
Either your a troll or you're delusional! Which is it? Let's see if I understand this correctly... Your telling me that voting is self governance? WTF? Yeah sure. After I am forced to pay extortion monies, ie TAXATION, I get to vote!!! YIPPPPPEEEEEE. IM'S FREE NAHW MASSAH.
F-ing troll.
Amen. People dont realize
Amen. People dont realize what a valuable tool our Constitution is for forcing the sheeple majority to respect our rights.
Ventura 2012
Logically inconsistent Bob
If people can't be trusted to govern themselves how can you trust any of those people to govern everyone else?