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General Question: Any "left-libertarians" frequent this board?
Submitted by JohnGalt300 on Tue, 06/23/2009 - 05:13
Anybody, you know, not in love with capitalism, but not quite as anti-heirarchy/leftist as most anarchists? » |
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There are way more than you think.
You judge a tree by its fruit. Just look at some of the fruit.
I'll Go There
I'm anti-war, pro gay marriage and gun rights. I'm more worried about corporate welfare then I am about helping the poor, although my final goal would be the elimination of all government not specifically called for in the Constitution.
I'm considered a left libertarian
The difference is those on the left are not believers in God. That is what split the LP. Nothing else. I didn't join the LP to become a Xtian and that's the way it was going back in the 80s when I abandoned the ship... I registered Decline to State party and began working with Nader on campaign and election issues... the elections were rigged and that's why Nader ran... that puts me, Justin Raimondo, Alex Cockburn, many of us Liberal Libertarians... and don't forget, Nader is a capitalist.. he never worked for the govt. The govt has ripped him off for his ideas and then silenced him.
WE ARE GOING TO WIN!
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I consider myself a pedestrian.
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Live like you mean it ..... Your life is your own !
http://www.randpaul2010.com
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Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
I was thinking about this
Fortune Favors the Bold
As far as anarchist movements, if you take a look at infoshop.com, they will describe themselves as "left-libertarian."
Personally, I don't feel comfortable with lot of the anti-hierarchy rhetoric and some other aspects of their message.
However, I do tend to agree with their distinction between "capitalism" and the "free market" of the individual anarchists. (Basically, having to do with property rights that accrue not from labor but rather from some other convolution that warps the constraints of "voluntary association")
Fortune Favors the Bold
I'd call myself a Left-Libertarian...
...but I wouldn't use your example. I love capitalism, but hate crony capitalism. I don't believe we should eliminate government, but it does need to get a whole lot smaller.
I'd call the "Left" part of me the part that believes a citizen can make thier own decisions about thier body (and whatever might be growing inside of it, be it tumor or embryo), where two citizens can enter into a marriage contract regardless of what their gender is and that society exists to provide benefit to it's members - otherwise, what's the point of society?
The "Right" part of me thinks we spend more money than we have and that needs to stop RIGHT NOW, that owning guns is a constitutionally protected right of every citizen, that markets make better decisions than people and that people should provide for themselves and not try to take from thier neighbor via government force.
I think all of the above is "Libertarian". YMMV.
- Mixer
100% in agreement.
I dont think that makes us left leaning, we just align with the left's view on this particuliar instance. Just like Dr. Paul is sometimes found in the lefts backyard on instances like civil liberties, I find myself jumping the fence often, although sometimes I just want my wiffleball back.
True, it depends on who you stand next to
In the RP world, I'd be considered a Left-Libertarian because I would fight to keep abortion legal and available. In the Kucinich world, I'd probably be considered a Right-Libertarian because I would fight to keep guns legal and available.
I'm a pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, vegetarian, athiest, gun-owning, cigarette-smoking, Austrian, who strongly believes in individual liberty and property rights. Pick your label.
wiffleball =
wiffleball = fun
:-)
************
Are you a person?
Do you really control your own affairs?
What he said!
http://www.tragedyandhope.com
http://www.im2moro.com
I agree with all of that
Fortune Favors the Bold
But here's a hypothetical question for you. Let's say someone inherits a large degree of land from his father. Whereas his father used the land to farm, this individual lets the land lie fallow.
Some other people in town say, well, if you aren't going to do anything with this land, we are going to farm it.
The owner says, well, it's my land and i don't want it used, and if you come on my land I will shoot you.
In this case, does the owner have the "right" to keep people off his property? If so, where is that right derived from? Why does he have more of a right to said land then someone else who has utility for it?
Fortune Favors the Bold
Absolutely
the owner of the land has the right to keep people off of his property, and that right is derived from the 4th Amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
It certainly would be a shame to let the land lie fallow, but it's the owners decision, not the community. If, however, that land bred carrion that infested the town, they would be within *thier* rights to require all land be maintained to the point where the infestation would stop.
As for utility - well, if you have any money just sitting there in a bank account not being used, I could utilize that money better than you currently are. Do I have a greater right to your money than you just because I could utilize it better?
I'd consider myself a
I'd consider myself a left-libertarian, or well centrist-libertarian. I very much believe in capitalism, personal freedom and limited government.
The one thing I differ on from everyone else here would be that I happen to believe access to health care is a right, not a privilege, so I think it is something the government can provide or help with (people will hate me for this). But if you think of it on the lines as a national service inside the country, just like the armed forces. It's protection of the people's freedoms, i.e. right to life. I don't think your level of health-care should be dictated by how well your socio-economic status, or that of your parents, is. I also don't think the quality of health care should be dictated by a for-profit company. I believe health care/insurance companies should be non-profit or member based.
Expose all of the
Expose all of the infringements on the most important private property we have (our bodies) via the cancer/AIDS/heart disease/ADD/PTSD/etc markets which are created by the pharmaceutical/industrial/agricultural/chemical complex that funds them and profits from them, and we will be 99% of the way toward taking care of the "health care" problem.
************
Are you a person?
Do you really control your own affairs?
What he said!
http://www.tragedyandhope.com
http://www.im2moro.com
Yea, I don't get the
Yea, I don't get the question. It seems to infer that anarchists might not be in love with capitalism, which is complete bs, but then again some anarchists really dont know what anarchism really is, they just think it means they get to do whatever they want to.
In answer to your question, there is no such thing as a "left-libertarian". A libertarian is a social liberal but a fiscal conservative. A liberal is liberal on both spectrums.
Fortune Favors the Bold "It
Fortune Favors the Bold
"It seems to infer that anarchists might not be in love with capitalism, which is complete bs, but then again some anarchists really dont know what anarchism really is, they just think it means they get to do whatever they want to"
many self-described anarchists don't like capitalism. And there are self desrcibed left libertarians. You may disagree with their politics, but they still use these terms as references, like it or not.
Fortune Favors the Bold
Only neo-cons frequent this board according to this
http://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/political-spectrum-quiz.html
That "left-right" thing si kind of played around here. Putting "anarchy" on the "left" is your personal quirk. Most people put anarchy just to the right of libertarians.
Truth exists, and it deserves to be cherished.
again
Fortune Favors the Bold
there is a divide over this. I personally don't agree with the "left" anarchists, or the "right" anarchists.
Fortune Favors the Bold
Cue sound of crickets............
>>>>
"This nation will remain the land of the free only so long as it is the home of the brave."