Should We Dissolve Our Political Bands?
What a careful--what a *judicious* writer he was, he who wrote his “humble application to his imperial throne to obtain…some redress of…injured rights…” He meticulously laid out his Majesty’s “encroachments and usurpations” of their rights, each one cited by the name of the ruler and the year of the reign, all spelled out for George III to redress.
All he wanted was to be treated like the sovereign British citizen he believed himself to be. He wanted George III to rule according to the English Constitution when dealing with his American subjects.
Though he writes of tyranny, he writes cautiously, assuring the King that “it is neither our will, nor our interest, to separate from her [Britain].”
Only two years later, the author of “A Summary View of the Rights of British America” declared it “necessary to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another.” What happened in this scant space that so changed the mind of Thomas Jefferson?
What will it take to change our minds? I see a government grown too powerful, too disrespectful of individual liberty, too eager to assert her own interests throughout the world. All we ask is for her to follow the Constitution. This should not be a hard goal. Ron Paul has been fighting this fight for a long time, but the simplest goals are in fact the hardest to implement, for implementing the Constitution would create massive change in the way our government operates today. What if, for example, the Congress had to “ specify the source of authority under the United States Constitution for the enactment of laws,” as the authors of H.R. 450 would require? What would then remain for the legislators to legislate?
There are many here who dismiss the possibility of anything but a peaceful Revolution, and I largely agree with them. But if we do not accomplish the change we seek, do we shrug our shoulders and hope that our children will be the ones to see it? When is it time to start afresh? When do we decide--if ever-- it is time to “dissolve the political bands”?
Callin All the Clans Together
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmr-tFPUx9M
Bump
"Let It Come."
http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin523.htm
Bump for more discussion
I don't know what to say anymore. I'm probably projecting my own feelings onto my state but at one time I felt that SC would really get on fire for liberty and make an impact on the country. That was about 2 years ago. Now I'm fairly convinced our state is "extra-fluoridated".
When people can no longer get their prozac, lortabs and methadone due to lack of distribution or "healthcare restriction", that's when people will really go nuts. It appears that nowadays people love their meds more than food even.
I think it's going to take some major pain before the American people affect significant change.
***
Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer
Freedom is not: doing everything you want to.
Freedom is: not having to do what you don't want to do.
~ Joyce Meyer
I'll second that...
Assert Your Authority
Assert Your Authority
A few extra points...
Before this thread completely goes into oblivion, I have two other small points to make.
I have argued repeatedly and vehemently that revolution can only be effected at the extreme ends of speech, and that censorship should be resisted for this reason. I also believe we should zealously guard the right of anonymous speech. The most radical, revolutionary writings of our founders were published anonymously, Paine, Jefferson, and Franklin among them. The author of "A Summary View of the Rights of British America" was simply declared to be "By a Native, and Member of the House of Burgesses." As cautious and fairminded as he tried to be, Jefferson must have had full awareness of the extraordinary requests he was making of George III--so he chose not to identify himself.
The right of anonymous speech is by no means a given today. Many of us hide behind blog names and make statements on the Internet we might not make if we had to reveal our true identities. The British High Court has recently ruled that "blogging is essentially a public rather than a private activity," and allowed the identity of a Lancashire police detective, who blogged under the name Nightjack, to be revealed by the Times of London. At one time Nightjack's blog had half a million readers, and presumably for no other reason than selling newspapers, a Times reporter used clues from the Internet to find Nightjack's identity.
This issue has also been examined by Maryland's highest court in a case of a group of bloggers who wrote unflattering and possibly libellous comments about an Eastern Shore businessman on a local newspaper website. The Court of Appeals ultimately upheld the right of anonymity of the bloggers, but also outlined the standards the Court would use in the future when deciding to unmask a blogger. Again, I submit that this is an issue that bears watching in the future, as it potentially affects us all and our rights of free speech and dissent.
And another, unrelated, note: I write that Jefferson wanted to hold Britain to her own constitution. This was a point of dispute between my husband (an attorney) and me. He was very insistent that England has no constitution, so how could I make a statement such as this? I reread "Summary View" to make sure Jefferson used this term; I reread Paine's Common Sense and found reference to a constitution; I also read some of Cato's Letters (a radical Whig from the 1720s, alluded to by many of our founders) and also found reference to a British constitution. So, Mr. Husband, I checked my sources, and I allowed the term to stand. Oh yeah, and didn't Jefferson study law one year longer than you did?
Almost forgot the link for more on Nightjack and the Independent Newspapers v. Zebulon Brodie case...
http://periculosae.blogspot.com/2009/06/tale-of-two-bloggers...
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. ("I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude"). Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 30 January 1787.
Outstanding!
The only possibility for real change rests with the states. They have the constitutional power to reform D.C. or even abolish it. Will they act?
Very good thread. KA-BUMP
Very good thread. KA-BUMP
FRONT PAGE PLEASE!!!
I think MAYBE 1% of Americans have read the Declaration of Independence.
A document every bit as important as the Constitution.
Remember, The Declaration of Independence was the PROMISE....
The Constitution was the FULFILLMENT.
"We have allowed our nation to be over-taxed, over-regulated, and overrun by bureaucrats. The founders would be ashamed of us for what we are putting up with."
-Ron Paul
The poor forgotten...
Articles of Confederation...Assert Your Authority
Assert Your Authority
Front page please!
I haven't seen writing like that for ages! Nice article amica!
FRONT PAGE!! Sheesh... how many have to ask?
Amica is an excellent writer and I had the pleasure of meeting her and family in person this week!! She is a lovely, intelligent, talented woman ...and this post is definitely VERY front page!!! I want us to be thankful to have her here to share her wonderful thoughts and talent for expressive, knowledgeable, sincere, thought provoking, honest writing !!
**
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
Daily Paul
"What will it take to change our minds? I see a government grown too powerful, too disrespectful of individual liberty, too eager to assert her own interests throughout the world. All we ask is for her to follow the Constitution."
Daily Paul - Dedicated to Restoring Constitutional Government to the United States of America
What possible reason could there be that this fine article...an article that demands deep thought and reflection on what we are willing to do to retain our liberty... has not made it to the front page? The front page on Daily Paul is an honor we all aspire to. I can't think of a better article yet today that deserves that honor.
Can this thread go...
on the front page? It strikes at the heart of the DP, and at the heart of Ron Paul's run for president. If this thread is not an example of the influence we can spread, and of the influence Ron Paul has already spread, then I cannot discover what that heart might be.
Assert Your Authority
Assert Your Authority
I second that emotion!! Front page material!
Several others have also asked for this! This post is truly thought provoking and deserves a chance to be read and contemplated by many!
*****
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
Our ancestors have allowed us to be sacrificed
What I mean is, if we were to have a shooting revolution, think about what we would be up against. The population has been disarmed, sure they say we have the right to bear arms, but look at the difference between the people and the government.
In principle we should have dissolved the bonds 150 years ago, ( some tried they were occupied and "reconstructed"). But, in practicality I think of what they will do to us. It would be a massacre.
Then I think of my son, and I would much rather take it on, than to pass it on to him.
"What was taken from the boomers, it ain't there, what was taken from the X'ers it ain't there, what is being taken from their great, great, great squared grandchildren it ain't there. Some generation just has to have the guts to quit passing it on." Me
*May the only ones to touch your junk, be the ones you want to touch your junk.*
But will civil violence be a well armed army against citizens?
I don't think civil war or revolution will be a well equipped army against an under equipped citizenry fighting large battles.
One possibility is that the nation splits apart (maybe three parts) like the civil war in 1861 and the fighting takes place between the well equipped armies of each territory.
Another possibility is that the nation remains one, but citizens who wish to change the government engage in guerrilla tactics like assassinations of government officials and supporters, bombings, sabotage, and small scale raids. Think Viet Nam, not American Revolution of 1776. It would be rural against urban, and blue vs red, but no big battlefield engagements until very late in the revolution, and then only if the rebels reached a strength to exceed that of those in power.
If you want to understand how people would kill one another you might read about life in southern Missouri during the civil war of 1861 and what the small gangs of Bushwhackers (the likes of Jesse James, Coleman Younger, Sam Hildebrand, and William Quantrill) did to those sympathetic to the Union.
You might also want to read "Civil War Two" by Thomas Chittum. His view is that the US will break up into three nations based on ethnicity and that ethnic cleansing of minorities in each of these new territories will follow.
http://www.timebomb2000.com/misc/CWII.pdf
My own view is that the violence between people with opposing views will be particularly ferocious because of the very nature of the economic conditions. When there is not enough to go around to keep everyone (or even most of us) alive, then the incentive to use force to obtain what is needed increases significantly, and who better to direct that force against than "those on the other side".
"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence." Thomas H. Huxley
I love the quote you
I love the quote you included. It is especially profound today. But do we have to resort to shooting? I strongly believe in a peaceful revolution. I already believe a revolution may have started in 2007 with Ron Paul's presidential candidacy. And we have the added advantage, at least for now, of the internet. So we need to take advantage of that quickly.
The American people are uneasy. I believe even the uninformed will go along with civil disobedience if they know about it. There are pockets of civil disobedience to Big Brother in evidence right now. Already, many farmers are refusing to get their animals chipped. http://www.mariettaregister.com/index.php?option=com_content... In my state, smoking in restaurants and bars has recently become illegal. Some towns here are disobeying this new law, despite the government having a number where you can call to turn in violators.
Some other ideas might be:
Refusing to fill out the census except for the enumeration portion that Rep. Bachmann suggests. And refusing the Real Id. We just need to get the information out there. We want the entire nation of people to decide, enough is enough, and refuse to be stepped on any longer.
And what better way than here on DP, the most free site on the web? I now send everyone here. Sooner or later, someone will read something here that will ignite a spark of freedom within them and they will feel compelled to read more. That's what happened to me.
These are just some initial thought of mine. I know if we put our minds to it, we can come up with a revolutionary plan, other than waiting for when the SHTF.
Yes, people
are uneasy and are looking for answers. My cousin and a gentleman he does business with were talking the other day. Eventually the discussion turned to politics, and the guy started expressing his disgust for the goings on in DC. My cousin took the opportunity to tell him about the liberty movement. Brush fire lit. He was going to try and get the people he knows organized and start getting active. There a lot of people out there who just don't know that they can make a difference.
To me this is the most
To me this is the most important post currently on the forum topic page. This is DP stepping up. This is liberty lovers willing to discuss the disintegration of our country right before our eyes and what we intend to do about it.
All of our current urgent actions are important and should continue, if only to say we tried. But in the end, more is needed. Congressional leaders have shown their arrogance over and over, and in the end, they have stolen our liberties, labeled us terrorists, robbed us of our treasures, killed and maimed our sons and daughters, and have mortgaged our children's future.
We have to put some deep thought into this. No one else will or even wants to. Like the Larken Rose article below says, "the spirit of resistance has been trained out of the American people." It is all up to us. Don't let this thread die.
Agreed! Sticky to front page please!!!
"Don't let this thread die."
Hear! Hear!
*****
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
Front Page Please!! Excellent post!
Amica, these are the questions that keep me up at night as I am sure it is likewise for most of us from reading the responses below. My personal gut reaction response is "yes" as an individual. Some may see that as flight and some may view it as fight! I realize I cannot answer for "we" as a group.
* You are blessed with a great talent for writing...please continue to share your thoughts!
*****
"I truly wish that real life would no longer surpass the worst excesses of my nightmarish imaginings... Arthur Silber **
"I think we are living in a world of lies: lies that don't even know they are lies, because they are the children and grandchildren of lies." ~ Chris Floyd
EGGS
IT will come when it gets here no need to hurry.
yes ???
No need to hurry...
but essential to prepare. Survivalism is a pillar of soveerignty. Preperations are requisite for survival. Better to blow the dust off of readied plans than to scramble to generate them.
So, we need to prepare the chicken coop for the coming foul and eggs. Mike Lawson should know all about this...
Assert Your Authority
Assert Your Authority
Good thread - I've just had this conversation with a co-worker!
Frustrating for sure, but we must carry on as we know we must. Thank you everyone for your comments (they have echoed my thoughts)!
In Liberty.
If Pelosi refuses to hold
If Pelosi refuses to hold debate on HR 1207, a bill with broad support, wouldn't that be considered treasonous to ignore the will of the people and the rest of the elected officials?
If Pelosi refuses, I believe this could be the figurative "Shot Heard Around the World," and the dissolving of our political bands.
good point.
good point, many people didn't even know what the Fed was until reciently, and now to find out that the government has more insight into Federal Express than it does the Federal Reserve has them very concerned. For our elected officials to ignore this would proof that their protection of the Fed is nothing more that taxation without representation.
Why would they need
To give you representation in system of force? Why would they need to represent you when they take it all by force anyway! Taxation IS without representation!
Weren't you the one who told
Weren't you the one who told me that the American Revolution merely resulted in a change of oppressors? I have some dim recollection of a disagreement we had on this issue.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. ("I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude"). Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 30 January 1787.
You are exactly right. But
You are exactly right. But the sheer amount of contempt that Congress, especially the congressional leaders, has for the voters in how they continually thumb their noses at WE THE PEOPLE, is driving me to distraction. Auditing the Federal Reserve has become a rallying symbol for dissolving our political bands...to me at least.
Guns, Gold, Secession
I wonder if the American people will ever again be able to break the political bands. The dreams of our Fathers may have been lost forever. Perhaps like the colonists once did, and Like Mike Lawson suggests, it is time for the freedom lovers to flee from the King's oppression, to our own land and start anew. But is there anywhere out there left that has not been tainted? To me it seems the only realistic answer is secession. Thoughts on "Dissolving the Political Bands" from two of my favorite articles:
~~~~~~~~~~~
YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME!
http://www.larkenrose.com/tmds-blog/1894-youre-not-the-boss-...
"..... But make no mistake: when you cheer for the founders of this country, you are cheering for law-breakers and traitors. As well you should. But, for all the flag-waving and celebrating that goes on every July 4th, do Americans actually believe in what the colonists did? Do they really believe in the attitude expressed in the Declaration of Independence? Are they really still capable of supporting a mantra of "You're not the boss of me!"?
In, short, no. Imagine the equivalent of what the colonists did so many years ago, being done today. Imagine a group of people writing a letter to the United States government, sending a letter to Congress and to the President, saying that they would no longer pay federal taxes, they would no longer obey federal laws, and that they would resist--by force, if necessary--any attempt by federal agents to enforce those laws. How would a group which did such things be viewed today, by most Americans?
They would be viewed as nut-cases, scofflaws and terrorists, despicable criminals and malcontents. They would be scorned as the scum of the earth, despised by just about everyone who today celebrates Independence Day.
How ironic.
So why the double standard? Why would the American public today condemn the exact same attitudes and behaviors which they glorify and praise in the context of the American Revolution? Quite simply, it's because, for all the proud talk of "land of the free and home of the brave," the spirit of resistance--the courage to say "You're not the boss of us!"--has been trained out of the American people.
We have become a nation of wimps."
~~~~~~~~~~
Guns, Gold, Secession
by Karen De Coster
"There is a secession movement afoot and its proponents are determined to put a halt to the federal government’s ambitions to destroy and reconstruct an entire economy and dissolve the last remnants of individual liberty. Twenty-eight states are invoking the law of the land, the U.S. Constitution, by rolling out legislation to assert their sovereignty as free states in order to keep from being undermined by the never-ending swarm of unrestrained federal decrees.
The speed with which the federal government intends to take over private institutions and usurp states’ rights and individual autonomy is unprecedented. When the Bush-Obama regime maneuvers are compared to the Hoover-FDR New Deal era, it looks like today’s hare vs. yesterday’s turtle. The state’s various propaganda arms, from big media to institutionalized special interest forces, are being empowered to publicize and sell the agenda of the totalitarian state by painting it in glossy colors that warm the hearts of unresisting Americans. There are, however, growing pockets of dissenters who conclude that life, liberty, property, and the futures of their children are more important than the trivial things that occupy the minds of the submissive class. For that reason, the state’s militarized police force, which has been given unparalleled powers by the contrived crises following 9-11, has snowballed in size and is being fortified in expectation of confronting rebellion from those citizens who intend to resist the tyranny of an over-reaching Leviathan."
Continue: http://www.lewrockwell.com/decoster/decoster149.html