I risk being fired by UPS for being a Libertarian
Well, I first must apologize for constantly talking about my job, but something serious has come up, and I need to document it, and also have you give me feedback and discussion.
It all started about a week ago when UPS and the Teamsters got together and decided to have all the UPS employees and all the Teamsters get together and write letters to our senators. You know this all seemed fine and dandy till I got wind of just what the bill was about.
You see, the bill is H.R. 915, and UPS and the Teamsters are trying to push this bill. The bill is about UPS wanting the government to step in, and "bailout" UPS. Now don't get me wrong, the bill is not about the government giving UPS money, but it is about government intervention on the free market.
I will give you a briefing on this bill. It all started in 1971 when FedEx was first established. You see, UPS before then had the monopoly on the shipping market, and they don't like competition. So FedEx comes along, and they are non union, so they can charge less for shipping charges. I realize that this may seem unfair to UPS, but in reality, this is how a free market works, and without competition then you have no real reason to advance in customer satisfaction, and service.
Anyway, the bill says that FedEx Express (which is the air division and corporate division of FedEx) needs to be under the same guidelines and regulations as UPS. But wait, there is a difference between how we both operate, and congress has defined FedEx Express as a RLA (Railroad labor act) company, due to the fact that they started as an airline company in 1971 for next day air service, second day air service, and third day air service (to the best of my knowledge).
UPS thinks that they are being cheated because they are under the NLRA (National Labor Relations Act), and not the RLA like FedEx Express. And since UPS is a union based company, they think they cannot compete with FedEx Express shipping prices. Well, this is in some ways true, however that is what free market is all about.
Anyway, to sum this up a bit more, FedEx has several divisions, they have FedEx Express which is the only part of FedEx that is corporately owned (I will explain in a little bit), they have FedEx ground, FedEx freight, and FedEx Office. Now the H.R. 915 is for Express companies, which only includes the FedEx Express.
Now, a bit about FedEx Ground, and FedEx freight. You see, FedEx Express is the only corporately owned division of FedEx, but all other divisions are privately owned, and are contract drivers. So all the FedEx Ground drivers you see pay for their own trucks, gas maintenance, etc. Only FedEx Express is corporately owned. If you were to try to give a FedEx Express driver a FedEx Ground package, they would not take it, as they can't due to regulations in FedEx systems, so you have to use a FedEx Express driver to use the air service as they are separate divisions of FedEx.
FedEx Ground, and FedEx freight are both under the NLRA, the same as UPS, but FedEx Express is under the RLA, which has different guidelines, one being that it is near impossible to unionize. This was established to keep railway (and air systems) from going on strike, because they are crucial to operate. Meaning that if air traffic controllers, railroads or next day air companies were to strike, all hell could break loose from the results. I am not 100% certain to these details, but I am certain of the H.R. 915 bill.
Here is the difference between UPS air, and FedEx Express that keeps these two separate classes. I work for UPS as an air driver (but primarily as a HUB employee), and the way we work is as follows. The air driver goes to the airport, picks up the air deliveries from an airplane, and takes them to a regional HUB, or package center. From there, the packages are then sorted into a ground facility that operates under the NLRA act. The packages then go to the familiar brown ground delivery truck (package cars), and they then are delivered by the said ground department. Only a slight amount of actual air deliveries are delivered by an actual air delivery vehicle (less than 15% in my local area), and that is why UPS is correctly categorized as NLRA. Now, FedEx Express is run completely different. The FedEx Express drivers do the same thing initially by picking up packages from an airplane, and then they deliver straight from the FedEx Express trucks to the customer. There is no middle man, no ground division, and no other entity to make them a ground system at all. So as you can see there is a difference. FedEx Express delivers over 85% of their packages via the air system, the remaining 15% is due to intercity delivery, meaning they pick up a package in New York City, and then deliver the said air package to a different part of New York City. It would not make sense to send this package on an airplane when it only needs to go across town…and that is the 15%.
Here is where my problem comes in. Now, I work primarily as a HUB worker. That means I load and unload truck trailers, and sort them out to the next destination, but I am also an on call air driver when the full time air driver is away. But at our HUB, and every other UPS HUB in the country, UPS has been using its employees to write letters to our senators to change these laws, claiming FedEx has an unfair advantage. That is over 400,000 letters (not counting other non UPS Teamsters) that could be written to senators…quite an impact I would say, and kind of scary seeing a company and a union doing this for personal agendas.
I was asked to go up to my supervisor’s office, along with all my fellow employees to write these letters to our senators. Well, I didn't like the sound of this. I mean why should UPS use its employees to be political when it shouldn't? Besides my boss told me it was not a political thing anyway....go figure. SO here I am being told that I do not have to write these letters to my senators. I decided not to until I found out what the bill was really about, and guess what? My boss didn't even have the bill for us to read. So I told him, I want to look into it, and find out what it was really about. At the time, I honestly didn't know, but I looked into it as I said I would, and found out this information. I didn't feel right about government intervention, so I decided not to write the letters.
The next day, I told my boss, I would not write the letters, and he kept at it like he was getting some kind of bonus out of the deal if all the employees wrote them. I still refused, but he told me he would find proof that I was wrong, and that I should write these letters. The next day he gave me an article that proved me right, but he must have misread it himself, or thought I was too stupid to read the article properly.
Anyway, the day after that, he made two other fellow employees and I go up to his office (since there were only three of us who would not write the letters), and he was still trying to persuade us to write the letters. He ended up bringing in a feeder driver (semi truck driver for UPS) in, who has two degrees in political science. He thought that this guy was going to convince us into writing the letters. Well, we got there, and I started to debate this two time degree so called master in political science. I only spoke the truth in what I had found out. He kept telling me silly stories about how he had friends who worked for a company that was not union, and they had to pay for their own equipment, gas maintenance, health care, etc...some big old sob story. I told him that his friends chose to accept that job, and no one twisted their arm in doing so. Well, he kept saying they had no choice, and I told him that if they had to, they could take a job at Burger King to pay the bills if they were so bad off. He started getting irate at this point, because he couldn't stump me...poor little me who is only speaking the truth and hasn't even a high school diploma (not to say I am uneducated).
So needless to say, he started to resort to name calling. He started furiously calling me a Libertarian, which I replied proudly that I am (that didn’t have the effect he was intending to have). He started rambling on how a Libertarian mind would not cut it, and how the ideals of Libertarianism is horrible, and cannot work if everyone wanted to have healthcare, and all the other nonsense the modern Socialists want…both Republican and Democrat. By the way, he is a diehard Obama supported as are many Teamsters.
After the name calling he resorted to putting me in classes, and told me if I ever wanted to be middle class I would have to write the letter to my senators about H.R.915, otherwise UPS would have to downsize in under 10 years, and I would be out of a job. I told him that is part of the hazards of a free market, and that I understand that fully, and accept that. I told him that I currently do not mind being lower class and my life is a happy life. Right after I said that, he decided it was not good to be classifying people, so he said let’s not talk about classes of people…even though he was the one who brought it up. Though he did repeatedly tell me I was going to lose my job, because UPS could not compete with FedEx in pricing.
By now as you can imagine my boss was getting upset as well. My boss had told every employee at the UPS HUB that this letter writing business was not about politics, which is flat out lying, as he knows good and well when you are pushing a bill, and writing to your senators it has left the regular UPS business, and delved into politics. Sadly, 99% of the employees were duped by him and felt like they had to write these letters for some kind of job security, or to be team players. Some just wrote the letters because they were promised 10 minutes of pay just to write them.
Anyway, shortly after that, my boss knew that I would not change my views on this matter, and he told the feeder driver who has two degrees, and I that we need to end this discussion. The feeder driver told me that I would never change my mind because I was a Libertarian…like we are some sort of barbaric people with wacky ideas.
Anyway that brings me to where I am now, and the reason I am writing this. I am writing this for several reasons, one being that I wanted to document this publicly because even though it is hard to get fired from a Teamsters job, both the Teamsters and my UPS boss are pushing this bill like their lives depend on it, so I doubt I will get much help from the union, and I surely will get nothing but trouble for not agreeing with my boss. You see UPS has ways of ridding problem people by writing them up for the silliest of things, and if you get three consecutive write-ups then you can get terminated. I have a friend who got a write up for simply getting a drink of water. Where I live it gets in the 100 plus degree range in the summer and even hotter in the building…so water is a must. However the supervisor deemed fit that he was disrupting production. On another occasion a co worker of mine got written up for simply smiling at a supervisor. The supervisor thought that he was smiling in an improper manner…however that can be defined I am yet to know?
The second reason I am writing this letter is to get feedback from you all to see if there is anything I should do to cover my butt from termination, or disciplinary actions. I hope you stuck with me in this incredibly long post. I didn’t mean to be so lengthy, but I had a lot to say, and sadly this is the edited version, and not the full version.
So, feel free to ask questions, and give me feedback, I would much appreciate it!
God Bless!





















On Politico today
Exclusive: Conservative group offers to sell endorsement for $2M
http://mobile.politico.com/story.cfm?id=25072&cat=topnews
What kind of group is the ACU anyway?
This group sounds like a bunch of lawyers, and will defend any person willing to pay them. I have never heard of them before. Thanks for the article, I plan on reading it.
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
wow.
These "conservatives" are showing their stripes especially Grover N.
I would really contactvthe fed ex lobby team with your story.
Well written!
Pay in any form for writing a political letter? -- document that!
Civil Rights Act and see National Labor Relations Board -- harassment issues!
See your State laws in regards to Unions, employees, and political beliefs.
I am not a lawyer, nor do I know employment law, but that does not mean that you cannot go to your local University of Phoenix and specifically take an 8 week class on that subject. Just one class, pay cash, it will be worth every penny and about the same price for getting a lawyer for 4 weeks.
Most of all, if this blows over, the name "Libertarian" will stick to you like glue. You must get a little book, 2 x 4, put it into your pocket and document DATE, TIME, and Comments to set a record of embarrassment for your political views, denied jobs and promotions.... you are building the long laborious case against UPS.
Thank you for the compliment and ideas!
I think I will bring a little note book to document things, dates and people. I will also look into some classes at an online school. My sister went to the University of Phoenix online, and it wasn't too expensive....like you said, way cheaper than a lawyer.
God Bless!
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
You are in a very strong position
You should keep a journal, and write everything down as you have done, here. Be careful about publishing this -- you don't want to get fired for violating your company's policies re making press statements, although probably a warning would be appropriate, not a firing.
Keep records.
I have been through this twice. Early in my working career, I was told not to let any blacks (as they were called, then) work in the box office of the theatre I managed. I wrote a memo to corporate asking them what to do, since, I said, I was afraid to follow the instruction for fear it was illegal and could get the company in trouble. I said that if I did not hear, officially, to the contrary, I had a young lady I wanted to promote to handle money.
I thought I might get fired, but since I had no intention of following that instruction, I thought I might as well challenge it. I didn't understand at the time how strong my position was, and was surprised when all that happened was that my boss came and removed my copy of the memo from my files (I still had one at home), and nothing was ever said. I promoted her.
Later, I was actually fired from a different retail management job for completely bogus reasons given by my supervisor to excuse his own failures in front of upper management. Again, I wrote to the Chairman and to Human Resources, explaining the situation. It was a 10 page singlespaced letter telling them everything that was wrong with the company. My only goal was to clear my name and make life better for the other employees.
I was surprised to be offered reinstatement with back pay. Corporate seemed to be concerned about my rights, for some reason. It might be that no warnings were given and my reviews were stellar. It might be that I had more education and experience than my boss. It might be that I was one of two female employees who worked for my supervisor (out of 90) and the other female worked for me. (I later found out that there were former female employees that used to date my supervisor.)
Long story, short: I found out that there are laws in place to protect you from this harrassment and any future harrassment. Your best bet is to speak directly (in writing!) to those in your company whose job it is to prevent losses from lawsuits and government penalties. If you write a letter with the details as you've described them, and ask for the company to explain their policy--"Should I do what my supervisor asks? Is my job in jeopardy if I don't?" -- you have accomplished several things:
1. You have documented what happened at the time it happened (judges love this kind of evidence)
2. You have gone through channels trying to work this out with your employer (judges and juries love this)
3. You have given your employer a chance to do the right thing, and put them on notice that their letter writing "incentive" has been taken to an extreme they probably didn't intend.
4. The strength of your "case" because of the above, makes it even more likely that they will want to make sure you are not harrassed.
5. If they go against their own interests and retaliate against you or side with your boss, you can probably get a lawyer to take the case on contingency - or even the ACLU!
I would stop posting in public until I found out what the company policy is, and because it can be interpreted as being a trouble-maker. But I would definitely contact someone in HR or Legal, or Risk Management, who will be very interested in reducing their legal exposure.
In my case, I did take the back pay, and the first managers' meeting I attended included a talk about the proper way to document substandard work, help employees to improve, and how this must be done before anyone could be fired. Not only had I put an end to firings on a whim (which had been going on), but I knew that my job was safe for as long as I wanted it, because they would be afraid to re-open this can of worms.
Good luck.
IMissLiberty
IMissLiberty
Thank you!
Thanks for the great ideas which I plan to use. I really like and respect you for standing up at your work as well! You seem like a very wise person. I had thought about posting in public, and that is why I didn't use any names, but you are still right, and I should refrain from it until I can find out the company policy for this sort of thing.
Anyway, thank you so much for the advice, I will take it to heart. I really do admire your strength as well for standing up to your fellow man and employers for what is right!
God bless you and thanks again!
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
Record EVERY conversation...
Get an Iphone or MP3 recorder. Keep it with you at all times and record every conversation. Steve Bierfeldt/TSA style.
robpatozz
www.Libertyis.org ~ what does Liberty mean to you?
www.trueworldhistory.info
www.campaignforliberty.com
www.endthefed.us
Rob P.
www.RonPaulButtons.com
www.trueworldhistory.info
www.RonPaul2012.com
I will look into picking up an mp3 recorder
I am not big on cell phones, but an mp3 recorder would be nice to have anyway. Thanks for the tip ;)
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
Excellent!
Wonderful post. Articulate and logical. It is sad that the guy with the Masters degree couldn't follow your reasoning and resorted to ad hominem and straw man attacks to try to make his point. Proof that a degree doesn't guarantee an education and vice versa. I hope it works out well for you.
Thank you very much!
Thank you so much for the compliments. It really makes a guy feel good! I too agree with you 100% about degree's not making a person.
Thanks again Jim, and God bless you!
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
on the clock politics
"... they were promised 10 minutes of pay just to write them."
If you can document the firm paying employees to write these letters, then you may have something solid.
http://FlipFlopRomney.blogspot.com
I am doing just that!
I have been doing what I can to document the point you make. I feel that is a key factor in this.
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
laugh a that dude
If his left wing philosophy is working so well, why is he asking the government to appropriate the American people's wealth to support his union.
You response should have been,"Dude who is the one asking for a bail out"
/end conversation.
Oh, that would have been funny!
I can think of about 100 things I wish I would have said now that it is said and done. The bailout comment you said would have been perfect!
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
Dude your not going to like my answer.
But here it is .Weve got to choose our battles and this is not a battle thats going to win the war.Just the basic fact that you have put yourself in a sitution where you have to maintain certain politclal philosophie to maintain a job.Is no one fault but your own.Its not your boss"s fault or the companies.Your intelligent enough to realize that unions use strong arm tactics to further their cause and you should have known this when you took the job.So PLEASE dont lose your JOB over this event..Its not worth it .Im sure thier are plenty of people on this site that do not have a job. and would gladly write letters to their senator in order to have one.Agree to write letters to your senator and write to them about HR 1207 also.This should even-out any un-principaled letter you have to write for your union.PlEASE we need all the employed people we can get to support our movement.
you are telling him to throw
you are telling him to throw away his rights and not stand up for himself?
besides
his boss is not asking him to throw away his rights he is only asking him to write a stupid little letter to his senator.Maybe if he were to say "I do not agree with this but because I am employed for company that does I will write the letters".He would probalbly gain alot more respect from his boss.and his boss might decide that libertarians are really ok people and we should hire more libertarains then he would really help the movement.
No Im telling him
not to sacrifice his job .his family his well being for principal.Like I said before if this was so important to him in the first place he should have never taken the job.His boss does not have the luxory of being a libertatian his job is to keep "everyone in line"And he should realize business and politics do not mix.So when he decided to work for UPS he has got to understand he is representing UPS in every aspect of his life including political philisophie.
I had a boss ask me to cheat customers
and cheat insurance companies. What would your advice be to me?
One commenter above said their company asked them not to hire blacks for front office positions. What would your advice be to them?
To say that business and politics don't mix, therefore you should submit to the boss's politics is to say that business and ethics don't mix, therefore you should accept immoral deeds as a condition of employment. In this case, the bill would unethically harm another company.
See, at some point you have to have a backbone, regardless of the employment risk. It's a little thing called character. This site is very big on character in case you hadn't noticed. We want people in government to have character and we applaud the character of individuals who step up and do the courageous thing in our fight to demand character in government.
Here you have a case of someone refusing to be pressed to an immoral task and you would have them cave. Kinda makes me wonder what path you think America's founders should have taken.
New Hampshire and Ecuador
This reminds me of a funny story
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine
My friend worked at UPS long ago in the shipping department. The department where they organize zip codes, and he used to hit the emergency stop button all the time on the conveyor system, saying he saw a dangerous situation. Of course, he did not see any dangerous situation, and the line was shut down. He got fired three times, and went to Columbus, Ohio infront of the union and they gave him his job back. He also used to have a grand old time stacking the boxes around himself, basically boxing himself in so he could not move. I tend to think unions are not a good thing, but I am sure there are arguments against that theory. It is almost like having a team of socialist lawyers to provide for you if you suck at your job. It sounds like you don't suck at your job, and that you do not need a union to protect your position. I would also say that you need to hold your ground, and just do your job to the best of your ability, and they will not be able to fire you. Keep up the great work!!
Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must. like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.-Thomas Paine
The R3volution requires action, not observation!!!!
HAHAHA
I know a few of those people at this UPS hub. Like you, i don't think unions are a good thing either, but in some ways they do work as a benefit. Thanks for the story and encouragement!
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
Americandodo, you think and write well;
obviously you're a smart guy. You can do better than stay in a job you hate. Good career counselors point out that people succeed best in work they love. Really think what you do well that you enjoy. Then figure out how to make a living that way.
Perhaps you could start a small business on the side, test the market, develop your product, service, or skill. You say you like hard work -- what about farming, learning on an established farm perhaps, or a coop farm, or if you have a bit of land, growing gourmet organic veggies, or...whatever YOUR interests are, follow them. Check out this book online or in the library: Shop Class As Soul Craft: An Inquiry Into the Nature of Work by Matthew Crawford
Thank you! I will have to read that book!
Thanks for your compliments, and your advise! It means a lot! Farming has always been an interest to me, so maybe it is time I looked a bit deeper into that.
God bless you!
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22)
Worked for UPS when I was 19 years old
I had three strikes against me
1) I was white
2) I was tall
3) I was new
Everybody hated me because I was new, but the Christmas season was coming up so everybody was essential to the supervisors and managers. The blacks hated me because of the above reasons, the supers hated me because I had initiative to do a good job, the managers hated me because I didn't kiss their asses. The whites didn't give a shit because they didn't know if I could hold my own. The teamsters could give two sh!ts because I was paying my dues and they really couldn't care less who I was. It was the worst job I ever had, nightmares I'm talking about, getting sucked up into the beltworks and getting routed to hell by mindless demons into brown trucks to nowhere. The only job I ever had nightmares about. Well, I unloaded the 45' trailers for six months and got moved to loading the brown trucks, resented all the way by everyone. In the interim, I wound up with ten stitches in my head because some idiot didn't cover a jagged edge in the walkways when they cut a beam. No OSHA compliance anywhere, I cut my head, get ten stitches, they send me home with a trip to Medi-merge on the way, I have to come back the next day or the union loses picnic money, and the whole place is painted in yellow caution paint the next morning. My only favorite moment was stumbling out into the managers meeting
in front of all the workers with my face covered in blood, running through my hands. They scooted me out of there faster than a box on a chute, got a free ride on a cushman electric vehicle to hell. "Go get your stitches and you better come back tomorrow morning or nobody gets their annual picnic this year!" Fuck UPS, use your brain like a muscle and get a real job. I expect more from a libertarian to support themselves in some manner congruent with their beliefs. UPS just isn't the place. But if that's all you got where you're at, then I really feel for you man, and just take what you can get and piss on the rest, because that's all they're going to do to you. UPS sucks. Do yourself a favor and go work for FedEx.
=======
"The consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of the ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded it."
- Robert E. Lee, 1866
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RON PAUL 2012
utilitarian
If you you perceive that you're actually at risk for being fired (and you value your job and are content there) maybe consider being more utilitarian.
The short and the simple is this and you won't like it:
1- Wake up - if UPS is under the NLRA and FedEx is under the RLA - then NEITHER is operating in the "free market." Both are regulated entities under the control of Congress and they exist at the pleasure of Congress. Any further discussion of the "free market" is a moot point and it is truly every man (or company) for themselves.
2 - you work for a union shop and you are bitching about a lack of "free market" understanding? Unions are against the free market. They are mafia by another name. (and sometimes not so distantly related in reality as to whom is involved) They seek to steal returns on investment and profits (a return on capital invested) from entrepreneurs who are responsible for their members having work to do in the first place. The worker sacrifices no capital or savings. They provide labor and they are compensated for it. If they think the compensation not enough, they can INDIVIDUALLY seek to contract for more, or GO ELSEWHERE.
3 - You can ALWAYS QUIT and go work for someone else. Who gives a rats behind WHY they don't want you working there. SO WHAT? Why do you want to continue to work for someone who doesn't respect your individual opinion and requires you to take political action on their behalf that you disagree with?
Get over yourself already, wake up, and go find a better more productive job that pays you what you are worth and where people treat you with respect.
(this is all the more reason why Corporations, which are themselves a government intervention into the free market, should all be abolished and businesses return to operating under full legal and financial liability - no company would ever get big enough to pull crap like this and yet people would still be employed and entrepreneurs would still make a return on their investments)
If you want to fight the good fight
then no matter what you have to be prepared to lose your job. What you allege that they are doing is very very illegal per federal campaign finance laws.
If you have a whistle blower statute in your state then you may have some damages if they fire you but you will need an employment law attorney to navigate that. The time to speak with such an attorney is before you get fired so you can build your case on the way out.
The people that can get this prosecuted (because campaign finance is really a gotcha game) are fed ex's lobbyists. You can look them up on the Internet all lobbyist have to register by client you can probably search by client. Look them up and call them They need to know about this so by can cry foul. You could single handedly kill this bill if they decided to pursue your story.
Quite that POS job and go
Quite that POS job and go work offshore. The best part about offshore work is there are no unions and We still make good money. The reason We make good money is because 90% of Americans are a bunch of whiney pussies so the ones that are not are treated pretty good. You couldn't pay me enough to work on land with a bunch of sissies.
this reads like propaganda
this reads like propaganda designed to garner FedEx support from Libertarians. There is no way that any of that happened. If you would have filmed or recorded any of it, then you could have sued UPS for a ton of cash. I don't know where you live, but in my state, that is illegal.
Interesting strategy.