Freedomwatch, Kokesh, returning GOP to its roots, Rockwell, myth of roots--GOP is party of Lincoln
Submitted by atrickpay on Sat, 07/18/2009 - 11:27
Anyone else catch that on the last FreedomWatch, how Kokesh said he is gonna try and return the Republican Party to its roots? And how Lew Rockwell subtly burnt him a few minutes later when he pointed out that the Republican Party was founded by Lincoln + company, and thus that's where its roots lie?
I thought that was pretty good--this nonsense about the GOP something having pro-liberty roots is a myth.
As Thomas J. DiLorenzo put it:
"It is not an exaggeration to say that one of the primary reasons--if not the primary reason--for the creation of the Republican Party was to establish the largest political patronage program in the history of government." - .p114 of Lincoln Unmasked
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Old Republicans pre date lincoln and were the Tertium Quids
The term was first used in Pennsylvania in 1804, referring to a faction of the Democratic-Republican party called "the Society of Constitutional Republicans". They gathered Federalist support and in 1805 re-elected Governor Thomas McKean, who had been elected by a united Democratic-Republican party in 1802 but had broken with the majority wing of the party. In New York state the term was applied to the Democratic-Republican faction that remained loyal to Governor Morgan Lewis after he was repudiated by the Democratic-Republican majority led by DeWitt Clinton. The two "quid" factions had no connection with one another at the federal level, although both supported President Thomas Jefferson. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Republican
Jeffersonian purists, or "Old Republican" wing of the party, led by Jefferson, John Randolph of Roanoke, William H. Crawford and Nathaniel Macon, favored low tariffs, states' rights, strict construction of the Constitution and reduced spending. It opposed a standing army. The "National Republicans," led by Henry Clay, John Quincy Adams and John C. Calhoun, eventually favored higher tariffs, a stronger national defense, and "internal improvements" (public works projects).[4] After the Federalist Party broke up in 1815, many former members joined the D-R's nationalist faction.[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic-Republican_Party
American System
Lincoln was a supporter of Henry Clay's American System. Basically the Feds used power to enrich a selected few at the expense of everyone else. The chosen give to the officeholders to keep them in power.
(Today, think Goldman-Sachs)
In 1964 this was the Rockefeller wing of the party, in 1980 the Bush wing.
The other wing was Taft, Goldwater, Reagan.
George W Bush can certainly be called Lincolnesque, being true to the party's roots.
Do you all remember our
Do you all remember our Rally for the Republic signs? One sign, the blue side, said Rally for the Republic. The other side, red, said Return the GOP to its Roots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1hDHCDh18Y
beat me to it
I was just about to say the same thing. In fact i saw few people from TX who had those stickers on them who were unaware that those stickers came from the Rally for the Republic. Boy did I feel unsafe there with all those police. Kind of ironic to feel unsafe with legions of police around you.
Thanks RealDeal
for the memories. :o)
Adam is a success story
He served in Iraq.
Look at how far he has come.
I feel he is someone who can lead by setting an example.
I feel the same way about Ron Paul.
Instead of knocking him for being human, I applaud him for waking up and carrying the torch.
He is doing a lot more than I am in the fight to save this country.
I dont know what insanity
I dont know what insanity would drive Lew to say that the GOP for most of this century is the party of Lincoln. It was probably the pseudo-intellectual contrarian inanity that is prevalent on his(excellent) site.
Lincoln GOP: anti states rights
African-American support
Party of the North
GOP: relatively pro-states rights
no African American support
Party of the South
Ventura 2012
That's a good point
that the current GOP is quite different than in Lincoln's time when it was coming into being.
However, if one (ie. Kokesh) wants to return it to its "roots", then I think Lew's point is correct. The "roots" do lie with Lincoln. What Kokesh should have said is that he wants to return the Party to its Taft, Buffett, Paul, tradition of relatively little-government.
And I don't recall Lew saying that the GOP has been the party of Lincoln in this century, but if he did, then I agree with your point on that.
I am not a fan of DiLorenzo's "Lincoln Analysis"
I do agree that the GOP is the party of Lincoln.
The GOP is a "faction" of the Republican movement.
Ron Paul often says "Taft was Mr. Republican"
Coolidge was a "small gov't" Republican
I think Lew let his Anarcho-Capitalist thorns out, hahaha.
Kokesh is a young welp and needs serious economic-historic education.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
GOP is a faction of the Republican Party?
Really? What's the history behind the name GOP? I just looked on Wiki but couldn't find anything substantive.
"Kokesh is a young
welp and needs serious economic-historic education."
And I can't think of anybody more suited to being his mentor than Ron Paul .....he seems to be in pretty good company these days too - in studio with Judge Napalitano and Mr. Schiff, etc....
Have you joined Ron Paul's Caucus?
The Republican Liberty Caucus
http://www.rlc.org/
Fellow Veterans, This Is A Call To Arms!
http://www.facebook.com/events/192677970828185/
February 20, 2012 - Veterans For Ron Paul March on D.C.!
Zak Carter: I've been "on the horse" since '88
I'm not joining anymore parties -- I donate - I educate - and I'm an entrepreneur.
Ask yourself this "when you are free what will you do?
Entrepreneurialism (the only profit burst for the wealthy in a free-society) will be the only "real" way to get ahead.
Maybe the greatest force to move us toward liberty is to start living as if we are free.
Abdicating our Authority to any "more" leaders (other than Ron Paul) is to perpetuate the very process that keeps us en-slaved.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
Entrepreneurialism.....
Will only be a way to "get ahead" until the comrade commissars decide that what you have needs to be redistributed....
Do you live in Ron Paul's district? I don't.....if you are willing to criticize Kokesh, are you then willing to advise him and help him get elected...and are you running for office yourself?
“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato
Fellow Veterans, This Is A Call To Arms!
http://www.facebook.com/events/192677970828185/
February 20, 2012 - Veterans For Ron Paul March on D.C.!
Zak -- What can anyone in Congress do that the Good Doctor
hasn't already done?
RP's role was always as a Constitutionalist and an Educator.
I hope RP feels strong enough to run again in 2012.
I will not vote to hire one more politician every again -- less it's someone I know.
I'm done creating life-long politicians who promise to return my authority-of-self; if I'll first abdicate it at the ballot box.
I could not run for office for the same reason -- RP has said it all.
Now we are waiting for the Wise Response (counter-economics) or the Disgruntled Response (when the dollar is destroyed and people have no choice but to rebel).
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
You guys will never stop "looking to leaders" to solve self-rule
"Patriot Act"
"Patriot Kokesh"
I'd be careful how I use the word "patriot" -- Ron Paul said the word is used to justify un-constitutional foreign interventionism.
Who does the "patriot" defend -- Does he make collectivist stances (against religion)? What if he does -- does that disqualify him/her if they do?
Kokesh is too young -- He sounds and looks completely different now that he wants your vote then the way he sounded when he gave the 10 or so good speeches that you are basing your support on.
He gives "performance speeches" -- Ron Paul never does that. He's an actor. You know nothing about him -- You don't even have his "resume," hahaha.
You cannot abdicate your self-rule (by giving authority to "leaders") to go and fight for your individual-liberty. The latter is the definition of insanity.
Octobox
*&^ Constitution --- Constitutional Rationality
I think
Kokesh is referring to the Goldwater-Reagan-Paul limited govt, personal liberty philosophical roots. A party is just a vehicle. Under Lincoln it was a northern party, but since the 1960's it is more a southern and western based party. Jefferson was a Democrat and the party has these same roots till before Wilson.
So yes, I agree with the idea of working within a party. Lew also has given up on the Lp so no third party is a viable option. He is a bit of an anarchist and totally skeptical of the politicla process, but one can do something on the politicla front. If one votes or nor vote, all have to deal witht he result of the majority vote...so it is important to take part in the process.
Ya, hopefully that's what he meant
But I'm not sure. Maybe he doesn't know his history that well? That is, maybe he's stuck in this myth that the GOP was founded, and thus has its "roots", as a Party of limited-government.
Patriot Kokesh vs Tory
Patriot Kokesh vs Tory Rockwell.
Ventura 2012
Precisely
Sgt. Kokesh's heart is in the right place, but he could benefit from a course in politically incorrect history.
There's no real tradition of Republicans being anti-war. Eisenhower brought on the Korean armistice by threatening the use of nuclear weapons and Nixon's impotence in ending Vietnam is self-evident.
Peter Schiff's argument from practicality makes the most sense. It's far easier to implement changes through an entrenched party than try to push in a new one. And since this is a republic, not a democracy, one might as well choose the party whose name fits.
It's not Lincoln's Republican Party...
That we need to drag the GOP back to...it is to the roots of our constitutional republic.
Have you joined Ron Paul's Caucus?
The Republican Liberty Caucus
http://www.rlc.org/
Fellow Veterans, This Is A Call To Arms!
http://www.facebook.com/events/192677970828185/
February 20, 2012 - Veterans For Ron Paul March on D.C.!
Exactly,
and that's the thing the Democrat Party as well should be brought back to.
I Agree Completely....
Just going to take a lot more work in the Democratic Party.....The idea that only government can solve all of our problems is just a little pervasive there :)
And I wish Dr. Paul would drill this quote of his into Mr. Rockwell's head - “There should not be hostility toward those who seek opportunities in any party. The goal is to spread the message in every way possible. As a matter of fact, if the ideas didn’t invade all political factions, it would not be a true revolution.” - Ron Paul
Fellow Veterans, This Is A Call To Arms!
http://www.facebook.com/events/192677970828185/
February 20, 2012 - Veterans For Ron Paul March on D.C.!
Is the Democrat Party really for bigger gov't than the GOP?
I think that is probably a myth. Why? Well Republicans support huge gov't in the area of borders, war on drugs, surveillance state, global war on terror, etc.
I hear ya.....
However, I find it is much easier to sway someone who considers themselves in support of limited government when presented with the facts of the big government they were unwittingly supporting...
I think alot of our neighbors are simply guilty of not thinking on the subject enough.....
and I still think our military belongs on our border....just not anywhere else....sorry....I just had to throw that in :)
Have you joined Ron Paul's Caucus?
The Republican Liberty Caucus
http://www.rlc.org/
Fellow Veterans, This Is A Call To Arms!
http://www.facebook.com/events/192677970828185/
February 20, 2012 - Veterans For Ron Paul March on D.C.!
That's a interesting technique
Hit them on the head with their "professed beliefs" (even tho they support huge government just as much as Democrats)!
I agree
However, the 20th Century Constitutionalists largely came from the GOP, including Robert Taft, Barry Goldwater and Ron Paul.
Are you aware
that Barry Goldwater was not a natural born citizen of the United States of America? Look it up for yourself...
I'm just sayin.
*****************
It is good and proper to respect the U.S. flag, perpetuated with the blood of American heroes. It is a fatal mistake not to recognize those who wrap themselves in the same flag to cover up their crimes against the American people.
~ Sherman H. Skolnick
. @ @ . Power to the People!
@ O @ -----> PEOPLE
. @ @ . NOT Corporate Entities!
That's true, but those 3 are glitches/anomalies.
Just 3 out of thousands of Republicans who held office in the Senate, House, and Presidency. So, does that qualify as sufficient to infer some kind of trend or "roots"? I don't think so.
Hmmm.
.
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