Comment: Okay, I'll bite

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Okay, I'll bite

I was slightly hoping to avoid getting into the actual issue in this particular thread, but I guess that was hopeless before I started, huh?

I get the whole women's rights aspect of the debate, and I'm all for womens rights, the issue arises when the rights of one person conflict with the rights of another. A perfect example is the whole birth control thing that went down a few months ago. Just because someone has the right to something doesn't mean that someone else has the responsibility to give it to you. I'm all for women having access to birth control, and would vehemently oppose any attempt to ban it. But I also respect that some people believe that birth control is morally wrong, and so they have the right to not (in their view) subsidize immorality by providing birth control. Ultimately the government shouldn't be mandating anything about healthcare, but particularly it should never force people to violate their religious beliefs (unless those beliefs violate the rights of others).

So, heading back to abortion, people have the right to control over their bodies. (As Dr Paul is fond of saying, groups don't have rights, individuals have rights). But people also have the right to live. The right to live is more fundamental than the right to liberty, because without life you don't have liberty, so your right to life trumps my right to liberty.

Pre-emptive response, because I anticipate getting "Just because someone has the right to something doesn't mean that someone else has the responsibility to give it to you." quoted back at me and used to argue that just because unborn people have the right to life doesn't mean that women have the responsibility to give it to them. I would say that it's already been given, and now it has to be protected. Use of that argument would justify Catholic hospitals going in to employee's homes to steal birth control that they'd purchased elsewhere. The not "give it to them" decision is back when the woman decided to have unprotected sex (yes, not all pregnancies are voluntary. Rape is a horrible crime, but also responsible for an extreme minority of abortions. The corner cases like that and the lives of the baby and/mother being threatened and messy and difficult, and don't make a lot of sense to discuss unless you already agree on abortion in general.)