Comment: Who is the Liberator?

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Who is the Liberator?

Let me see if I have this correct.
I. The pursuit of happiness can be accomplished by people who do not want other people to suffer as a rule not an exception which includes:

A. Extroverts = Capitalists (Capital movers, self-starters who play by the rules without the desire to exploit or hurt others to achieve their goal which is happiness.) They are movers & shakers who are highly motivated toward production and employ workers to meet their goals.

B. Neither [A nor C] = Workers (The majority of the population who live and let live, who are at the dispose of Extroverts and Sociopaths; highly motivated toward acceptance.)```

II. The pursuit of happiness can be accomplished by people who want other people to suffer because that makes some people happy as a rule not an exception:

C. Sociopaths = Socialists (Get what they want by abusing and exploiting workers. They are movers & shakers who are highly motivated toward destruction. One has to make people suffer to join their club.)

Did I make a correct summary? Do A, B, C move back and forth the between groups? Are all workers benign? i.e., recently a little 10 year old girl was kept in a closet and weighed about 40 lbs when she was finally discovered; her own family did this to her. As far as I know they were not movers and shakers. I know several women who were raped by their own fathers when they were but little girls. Would these types of people, the perpetrators not the victims, be sociopaths even though they are not movers or shakers, but treat people as cannon fodder? I think I may be misunderstanding by thinking that you are saying all extroverts and all sociopaths are in leadership/government/business owners. Or do you mean extroverts and sociopaths are users regardless of their station in life (even if they are the employees/workers)?
ME: According to Proverbs as quoted above, perhaps it is better to not desire to have more, but rather to desire to only have just enough, or only what is necessary, not more and not less, such that it does not hinder free spiritual development?

YOU: I do not think so because I think that life must adapt in such a way as to learn how to move from one planet to another planet…Settling for only what is necessary is the same thing as refusing to store extra tomatoes in jars… Is the thinking such that the only way to gain true spiritual development is to labor constantly? If that is the thinking then I can see how that thinking would produce a ready supply of workers who are willing to work for nothing - how convenient is that type of thinking for someone who wants to get something for nothing, or lower labor costs so as to increase personal profits?...

I can see how my statement would lead to your statements. I am often deficient by stating in such a way as seeing only black vs. white; good vs. bad; best vs. worst. Certainly there are degrees in between, and sometimes polar opposites are neither best nor worst case scenarios, but both opposite poles may be wrong whereas the middle would be correct or best.

I should have stated in such a way as to say, “God, let the focus of my life be neither riches nor poverty, but you. If either riches or poverty will make me spiritually deficient, I choose you. Lead my life Lord, in such a way that I do not turn away from you. If I have great riches, may I pursue you; if I have poverty: may I pursue you. If I am such that I can only pursue you by having neither riches nor poverty, then let that be the case. I choose you as the goal of my life. Add to my life what is best for my spiritual development.”

Certainly that does not mean that we are not to prepare for our future or strive to do well, but in doing those things not to put them ahead of God. God has endowed people with the ability to adapt thru invention, pursuing change, and working hard to achieve those goals. Certainly many who love Him have riches while some have poverty. Some seem to have a fairly easy life and some have a very hard life, some are in the middle. But may those who find themselves in any scenario pursue God as their sustainer and not focus only on the material. All of the scripture is to be taken as dependent upon and to be interpreted by other scripture. A single verse does not stand alone but in the whole counsel of scripture. There are many instances of wealthy, poor, and average people in the Bible who loved God.

It was not my intent to say that we are to work all day just to eat for today and not plan or prosper for tomorrow. My point should have been directed to the fact that perhaps we have stopped focusing on God and instead are focused primarily on the material which has led to a deficiency in spiritual development which results in the opposite: spiritual decline.

YOU: If I were a capitalist seeking to reduce labor costs I'd say that those ideas are great for the workers…

Do you believe the Bible was written to manipulate the masses?

Here is the Christian work ethic: Colossians 3:17, 23-24 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him…And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

As a Christian, I am to work like I am doing my work for or as unto the Lord Jesus. That is a pretty good deal for my employer because I am highly motivated. I guess under the capitalist model it can be a good deal for me because the harder I work the more I can make or the faster I can move up. I have opportunity for reward. Perhaps under a socialist or even more so a communist system (I am speaking of current models (not correct definitions) to the best of my knowledge) the principle could save my sanity in the face of probable inequity

ME: "Perhaps the real problem is that we do not love our neighbors as ourselves and so what is mine is mine and it is not yours and I will not give you what is mine even if I see that you might need some of mine because I am too busy getting more of mine so that mine will be more than yours."
YOU: We do that? You do that? I do that? Where is this nebulous "we"?...

I am just saying I and those in my house have far more in our house than we need. We have more clothes than we can wear more food than we need, we don’t have a lot of luxury items, but we have more than we need of the everyday items. There are people sleeping under overpasses. I am not helping them, other than extorted money sent to the “no such thing government” to support them with food stamps, medical care, etc, if they are even in the system. Why am I not taking a drive every night to see what I can do to help? What about he faces of starving children on TV? Why am I not half starving so they could be half starving instead of actually starving? I see children on an almost daily basis who have parents who manufacture and sell drugs (or so it would appear) and who take drugs. Those kids run the streets. I am not bringing them into my house for milk and cookies and a kind loving word. I am too busy to be concerned and troubled enough to help them.

ME: "In other words, I see you have a need, but I am not going to help you, so “Good Luck,” hopefully God will help you, but God may not use me or my resources in the process."

I see pan handlers in the Walmart parking lot. They have a need, it may not be money, but may be someone to get involved in their lives and help them overcome whatever it is that causes them to beg as their work. Just like the drug dealer’s home that I can plainly see out my back window. Cars drive up all ours of the night and honk. The teacher next door to me sees her students go there. People leave the house in the wee hours of the morning. What am I doing to make a difference? Nothing, not me, don’t get me involved. I don’t have time…it may cost me more than I am willing to give. I may find myself between a rock and a hard place.

“Harkening back to my "run" for congress where an old woman responded to my speech concerning voluntary taxes as opposed to the involuntary taxes…”

Voluntary taxes are a difficult thing to understand after the deception (not conditioning) we, I mean I, or perhaps there are others that would make it a we, have lived our whole lives. I can completely see the need to make taxes voluntary and thus control the spenders. What would the voluntary taxes be used for?

YOU: “My neighbors, I know, will help me and at least one is a very good shot with his .308…None of my neighbors are kidnapping child sex slaves, running torture chambers…”

I honestly do not know what goes on in the privacy of my neighbors’ homes. For all I know they are watching snuff films, cooking meth, and abusing their children. They have guns. They scream and fight and cuss; they fired their guns in town for who knows what reason, and the police came…. They have a son my son’s age on my son’s baseball team. Last week the police were called out to the game because of a physical altercation between that family and the other coach’s father because the coach’s father asked them not to use the F bomb…What about that 10 year old boy and his 5 year old sister? What kind of lives do they have outside my back window? I am not sending my boys over to play, and I am not asking them over to play. What does that say about me. I have what I want, I am too busy to help you, I don’t want to get involved. How do I know there is not another 10 year old in a closet in my town which would actually make the population 701 instead of 700?

There is a vacant house across the street because when the 70 lady retired no one would buy her nicer home across the street from the meth house and she let it go back to the bank so she could retire and go to Arizona. The other lady across the street can barely stand because she is in so much pain. She lost her husband last summer. The lady next door is a retired school teacher widow and then there is also the school teacher and her husband. I have no idea what goes on in any of their homes. I don’t know if my neighbors have guns, there is probably at least that one gun at the meth house. My town is full of retired people on SS and “disabled” people on SSI.

Farmers around here are having their scrap metal stolen and cattle rustled. I know multiple homes which have been broken into while owners were at home or on vacation. Someone tried to break into our garage a couple of years ago. Was probably the same boy that is a member of our church, stole offering from the church safe (we had to install a camera to figure out what was going on), got caught breaking into my kid’s Christian School, stole from a fireworks distributor, just got out of jail, came to church for a month, has quit coming, and I have done nothing to help him. He is probably going back to prison because he had charges in 2 different counties and the prosecutor did not bundle the charges. (Our church did not call the law or press charges, but tried to work with him.) His mother teaches Sunday School at our church and manages the convenient store. We advised her not to go back to work, but they, she and her husband, thought their son being in middle school could be at home by himself without supervision. (He blew is fingers off one summer making a gun powder bomb.) It may not have made any difference but we will never know.

I suppose I am not looking at political economy, but at the actual social economy inside and outside my windows, right here in my town of 700, or perhaps 701. I am not making a difference other than in my own children’s lives. I suppose I do help in other ways but not in a “driving” and “consuming” way in the face of the needs that surround me. I like working in my garden, I like conversing on the DP.

“The affordability of stupidity is evaporating, so the flow of power will stop soon, but it may be too late to avoid shooting in defense of Liberty - unfortunately. “

Yes, power to the Legal Criminals as well as the Illegal Criminals and Human Weakness seems to surround me on all sides as well as my own too busy to care stupidity which adds to that outflow of power.

“That Shays's Rebellion precedent was cause for getting rid of a voluntary Democratic Federated Republic and instead of it the Legal Criminals had to construct their Nation State…”

Of course “they” wouldn’t want to let a good crisis go to waste. Thank you for taking the time to explain to me Shays Rebellion. You have mentioned it often and I really did not know anything about it.
I had a thought this week about being surety, which is what we have been made because of the United States Debt. I normally have thought of this on a personal level, but this week on a corporate (as in we, as in we the people) level.

Proverbs 11:15 He that is surety for a stranger shall smart for it: and he that hateth suretiship is sure.

Proverbs 17:18 A man void of understanding striketh hands, and becometh surety in the presence of his friend.

Proverbs 6:1-5 My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger, Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth. Do this now, my son, and deliver thyself, when thou art come into the hand of thy friend; go , humble thyself, and make sure thy friend. Give not sleep to thine eyes, nor slumber to thine eyelids. Deliver thyself as a roe from the hand of the hunter, and as a bird from the hand of the fowler.

It is my guess that early in American history we, the victims, were unable to deliver ourselves from our lenders and it has only gotten worse. It seems I remember debt financed the Revolutionary War?
In regards to the multiple choice: Which one reaches closer to a connection that manages to reach the goal of everyone knowing better soon enough to avert becoming victim to crime made legal?
1. One way connecting mediums such as Television (or the press)
2. Chat Rooms and Forums
3. Money
4. A Spiritual Connection

YOU: My opinion is that a spiritual connection will be the power than people find when people finally realize the need to disconnect from the Legal Criminals. A legal criminal may even connect spiritually and decide, voluntarily, to stop being a Legal Criminal.

I have said before and I will say again, it is very important that individuals make sure that the spiritual connection is with the One True God. There is a God of this world who transforms himself as a worker of light and good. He will deceive the nations. He will perform miracles. It will be such a deception that the very elect would be deceived if it were possible: Matthew 24:24 “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”
The Apostle Paul gives a further description of this time as found in

II Thessalonians 2:4-12: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what with holdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work : only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed , whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish ; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I agree a spiritual connection is necessary and would achieve what no other option can. There have been great revivals in the past that have brought forth change, The connection must be with the one true Creator God otherwise it only leaves the other god of this world who is a deceiver and whose goal it is to deceive and who wreaks havoc and will wreak unimaginable havoc to come.

To what are you referring to when you say spiritual connection? It may be as different as my God in my terms and your God in your terms, so I am asking.

“Stephen Pearl Andrews was obviously (obvious to me) speaking out against abortion. The connection was made where women (property) were enslaved by "legal" marriage, being raped legally, bearing rape babies, and murdering the rape babies rather than bear them. So the "legal" marriage thing turns women into murderers all nice and legal.:

I still do not understand what was being said about capital punishment:
LMD-10.32 “Often the greatest crime a man can commit is to reproduce himself, though it be done legally.

LMD-10.33 “We must have a Maine Law and capital punishment for the children born of hate in indissoluble marriage. Hundreds of Women in such marriage murder their children rather than bear them.

Is the capital punishment for the man, the baby or the woman? My first reading made me think it was for the baby, but now since you say Andrews was speaking out against abortion, I am thinking that capital punishment must be for the man?

I took the occasion to speak with my mom about these things. I have found again that I am Polly Anna. Honestly, I didn’t know about marriage rape But now that I do, I am wondering, perhaps this whole issue gave rise to not letting a good crisis go to waste and instead of punishing the guilty (the man) and helping women get out of bad situations, a crisis was used to reweave the fabric of society? God’s plan was as it was in the garden, that a man should leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife and that they, the two become one flesh:

Genesis 2:24-25: Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

My grandmother was forced to cook breakfast for by my grandfather as she was in labor with their first born before he would get the doctor. She lost the child. My grandmother told me of a couple in the apartment below them. She was called on to care for the woman after her new husband bloodied her in sex. I didn’t ask my grandmother enough questions. I wish I would have. But now there are children in our town who do not know who are their fathers or their brothers and sisters, and women who do not know who are the fathers of their children. After all, how is it that a mutually equitable situation is to be found without trying out a few first or escaping when the going gets rough (and I am not talking about marriage rape, but those trials that married couples work through and grow through.)

Perhaps the wrong solution was proposed by Andrews. Perhaps marriage laws were such so that a wrong solution could be proposed? Perhaps free love was not the solution, prosecuting the evil doer husband. Perhaps the woman should have been able to take all his earthly belongings and leave him in jail after he took from her what she did not give. But then there would be abuses of that system too I suppose. How would true trial by jury have worked for these women?

I am just wondering how the problems of a minority spill out into problems for the majority causing even bigger problems for all. Women were having illegal abortions and dying in back alleys. Now we have legal “safe” abortion and the bodies of babies are piled heaven high.

I am also not so sure about the title of this publication per wiki: Free love advocates sometimes traced their roots back to Josiah Warren and to experimental communities, viewed sexual freedom as a clear, direct expression of an individual's self-ownership. Free love particularly stressed women's rights since most sexual laws discriminated against women: for example, marriage laws and anti-birth control measures.[23] The most important American free love journal was Lucifer the Lightbearer (1883–1907) edited by Moses Harman and Lois Waisbrooker[24]

again from wiki: Lucifer the Lightbearer was an individualist-anarchist journal published by Moses Harman in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Originally produced by a local branch of the National Liberal League as the Valley Falls Liberal (1880–1883), Harman changed the title after he assumed sole editorship in 1883.
The mission of Lucifer was, according to Harman, "to help woman to break the chains that for ages have bound her to the rack of man-made law, spiritual, economic, industrial, social and especially sexual, believing that until woman is roused to a sense of her own responsibility on all lines of human endeavor, and especially on lines of her special field, that of reproduction of the race, there will be little if any real advancement toward a higher and truer civilization." The name was chosen because "Lucifer, the ancient name of the Morning Star, now called Venus, seems to us unsurpassed as a cognomen for a journal whose mission is to bring light to the dwellers in darkness."

Why would they pick that name? Why Lucifer. And that writer you mentioned to me that you are reading, why does he use the name Lucifer in his titles? From wiki: ." The name was chosen because "Lucifer, the ancient name of the Morning Star, now called Venus, seems to us unsurpassed as a cognomen for a journal whose mission is to bring light to the dwellers in darkness."

This reminds me of what the serpent said in the perfect sinless garden that God made and placed the man and women: Genesis 3:4-8: And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

From what source of help is liberty being sought? God did not make man a sinner. Satan brought that “light” to man. Adam and Eve were naked and did not even know it. They were innocent. They did not know good or evil. After being deceived by Satan, they sewed fig leaves together to hid their nakedness and proceeded to hid from their Creator because they were ashamed. The first Legal Criminal: Lucifer, the bringer of light.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

How sad if liberty is being sought thru the help of the Deceiver. In that case, I choose death.