Is this quote from Greene: "Labor is the true regulator of value"
the same thing as "The Labor Theory of Value?"
If a person is welcoming competition will their actions be aimed at destroying competition in a deceptive, threatening, violent, and destructive race to HELL or will their actions be aimed at employing the competition in a productive race to set the bar of quality, adaptability, useability, economy, serviceability, accuracy, and lower, and lower, cost, toward God's instruction to go forth and multiply?
Note the confession contained in one word choice chosen by Greene in that sentence, please:
"Labor is THE true regulator of value."
How is that compared to this:
"Labor is a true regulator of value."
Which sentence confesses a more dictatorial monopoly viewpoint whereby any competition is crushed without question?
Is labor THE only possible regulator of value ever?
Is that an error in English, or an error in perception, or an error in "theory", or an error in fact? Who intends to pay for those errors?
Which sentence welcomes competition to set the bar ever higher just in case the current level of competition isn't as high as is humanly possible if human being can afford improvement.
"Labor is THE true regulator of value."
"Labor can be an accurate regulator of value for those who value labor and those who are aiming to voluntarily regulate value accurately."
If your true regulator of value is written by God in scripture, then the word choice THE (in the sentence by Greene) does not apply to you, and it is therefore inaccurate by that measure. If you value labor then the sentence by Greene is true in that specific context.
If my true regulator of value is productive power, then productive labor can be a subset of productive power and Greene is somewhat correct as far as I am concerned.
Notice how Warren in Equitable Commerce wrote about the Principle of Individuality and how that condition of life is what it is and as such, as a condition of life, it could be understood competitively, such as this case in particular. A measure of value for you may be what it was when you were 10 years old, which is an individual time in your life, your year as a 10 year old was that individual time span, no longer THE individual time span of your life, and now you may have an improved sense of exactly what is THE regulator of value to you, as an individual.
So Warren, not Greene, spends some time and effort (cost) on explaining how a Principle of Cost can help in the effort to bridge the gap between one person with one sense of value and another person with another sense of value, so as to arrive at something equitable during an equitable exchange, if that were a mutual goal, shared by two individuals. If the exchange costs me as much as it costs you then the price I charge is equitable compared to the price you charge, and who is going to claim that someone has cheated someone else out of anything?
THE, may be a poor word choice, or it may be a confession of monopolistic, dictatorial, involuntary, thinking by Greene.
I have a chore for you, an errand, to consider along these lines, and we can imagine that it is like Mission Impossible and you are the Star of the show, being sent on this thinking exercise knowing that somehow you will reach the goal and then be back on vacation ready for another call to go on another Mission Impossible.
Get six teams of economists lined up in a race to the finish line.
Involuntary Capitalists (legal criminals)
Involuntary Socialists (legal criminals)
Involuntary Criminals (Black Market criminals, criminals without badges, criminals who have not yet made their crimes legal, some are hired by Legal Criminals for special duties like massacring Settlers while wearing costumes that make them look like Native Americans)
Voluntary Capitalists (Gold Bugs, and others wanting scarcity as a rule)
Voluntary Socialists (Andrews may be the only one, so here Labor Dollars are used, but this team may include some Mormons, some Families, some Military, the Amish, all depending upon competitive definitions of the term socialism even if no one wants to use that word for reasons that become clear over time)
Equitable Commerce (Even if you don't know it you fit here so this team may include all the competitors who compete and improve competition, as time goes by)
You infiltrate each team and race 6 races in a series of races where your goal is to make your team win each time - The Race of Champions Championship: 6 heats ending up with a final winner takes all score.
Mission Impossible is your Team winning each time, because you did things to inspire your team, each time, to win each race.
You will encounter people who are already on each team and you have to influence them to win the race each time all 6 teams run 6 consecutive races, and in the end, because of your help, each team wins one race each, and so there is a tie at the end of the Championship because you made your team win when you were team leader in The Involuntary Capitalists, as you and your team won against all 5 of the other teams. Then you infiltrated the Involuntary Socialists, taking charge, influencing their game plan, and again your team wins the second heat, and all the other teams lose. You keep joining the other team, and the team you join wins each time, because you lead them to victory each time, and each time all the other teams lose. You do things that make your team win, each time.
Now you can see how this is Mission Impossible. You can't win any races alone, you do not know what all those other people are racing toward. What do they want? You know what you want, you want to reach the goals set by God.
Now, to help things along, since the race organizer (in this case me) has a trust in the Special Agent (bear) being asked to take on Mission Impossible. I think you can do it, if anyone can. I am going to set a few goal posts, just for this Mission Impossible.
Now you may be so happy as to have a few actionable goals?
The start of the race includes a few numbers and at the end of the race those numbers will be at zero or as close to zero for the winning team, and the losing teams will not be as close to zero with those numbers. To win the score board that starts with a lot of numbers has to be lowest compared to the teams that lose, and zero is best.
DEBT is X at the start of the race. You know that score.
DEBT will be as close to zero at the end of the race for each winning team during each race, and you are helping each team to win.
Human starvation is Y at the start of the race.
Human starvation will be as close to zero at the end of the race for each winning team during each race,and you are helping each team to win.
Humans Torturing Humans is Z at the start of the race, closest to zero at the end.
Humans Murdering Humans is XYZ at the start of the race, closest to zero at the end.
Team 1, you join, you work to get the troops rallied to win the race to zero numbers of starving tortured and murdered human beings while human DEBT is moved to zero too. What are their goals in Legal Crime with the Capitalist False Front? What goals do your teammates have that you may want to redirect toward the goals set in Mission Impossible?
They say things like Hamilton said, for everyone else to allow his small group the affordability of creating National Debt, and in return you get National Credit, which, if you read the fine print, is Credit that is based upon the Good Faith and Credit of the American people. What they actually do, not what they say they do, on the other hand, the hidden hand, hidden in plain sight, is recorded on the Official National Debt Clock.
What they do, in fact, is keep food from large groups of people, so as to maintain their control over people, dictating who stays in the food business, and who is driven out of the food business, and if a few million people starve to death, which is a torturous and murderous way to die, then that is OK as far as those in Team 1 are concerned.
What they do, in fact, is they order very well trained killers, who are supposedly trained to be very well trained Defenders of Liberty into places where natural resources can be stolen and it is again OK if the natives who reside in those place die by the millions, and it is OK if they die torturous and horrible deaths, and it is OK if the well trained Killers die too, even if Liberty at home is defenseless without their help after they are gone too.
I covered group 1 so far, but any involuntary association is reaching or will reach for the same goal called enslavement, by definition, that is the goal, so we can lump 1, 2, and 3 in that category and the only real difference, is cosmetic, some wear RED flags, covering their crimes, some where BLUE flags covering their crimes, the stationary logo changes, they are reaching for the same goal.
Next up are the Gold bugs, but this group is the voluntary version so you are the Special Agent taking on Mission Impossible, and your job now is to get these guys and gals to win the race as the race Start and Finish Goal is given to you by the race organizer.
What can you do with this group? What is their goal? They don't necessarily want to see people starving, tortured, and murdered with their Gold, and they certainly don't want any debt, as far as I know so far. You can get the straight, honest, truth, from them, not me.
What if all the Gold has been moved to China, getting ready for China to win World War III, and the Gold Bugs at home, here in American, have their individual stores of Gold, and so they feel secure, but there are many people less secure, having no Gold, no food stored, no guns, no ammo, nor any visible means of support, which reminds me of my Dad, as he would say "like an 18 hour bra" (no visible means of support) when referring to someone without a job (no capacity to earn anything, no food, no clothing, nothing visible).
Gold bugs set an example, and a fine example, of how to take care of each individual individually, and their solution is to use the power available to secure more power for the individual, and the measure of success is measured in amounts of gold owned by the individual in savings accounts of some secure form - as far as I know so far.
Gold bug A at the start is without Gold, at the bottom of the score board, and Gold bug A reaches the Goal desired with a secure measure of Gold at the finish line, more is better than none, more is better than less, the biggest winner has, theoretically, all the Gold in the World, which makes Gold very scarce for everyone else. If you lose, too bad.
If you win, you win, if you win big, you win big, and if you win biggest, everyone else loses big time. I may have all that confused, but the secrets remain secret since the working methods are patented, and there are trade secrets kept secret, and intellectual property rights are right, and other things that make no sense to me make sense to them in that group. I tried fitting in that group but I was kicked out for asking too many stupid questions.
Let the chips fall as they may, and there are arguments, of course, as to which way of winning is best, and sellers are apt to keep things secret, keep information scarce, such that the true cost of doing business with them, and who will be paying those costs during any transaction of any kind, is a limited liability.
Caveat Emptor: some "free" market traders are deceptive.
I don't know the whole story about the voluntary capitalists, I get bits and pieces, confessions concerning word choices, confessions concerning actions, but for the most part the voluntary capitalists keep secrets, so you may have an advantage infiltrating their group and rallying the troops to win the race as the race goals are set by the race organizer.
The voluntary socialists group has so much bad press aimed at it, and pounding it into something bad, for so long, that the concept of a voluntary family, or voluntary military is almost completed beaten out of human consciousness, but there are remnants, it seems to me, in individuals who are not out to get something for nothing, they are willing to live and let live, and they are driven by some sense of a greater good than their own satisfactions. You, as far as I know, are already infiltrating something similar to a voluntary socialists group, in your family, and with your connections to The Amish individuals who are connected to each other in that special Amish way. They, and you, probably don't want the label Socialism aimed at you, and I see clearly the wisdom of rejecting that False Label. As to Mission Impossible, in this group, you may be asking for help, rather than seeking to guide those Troops along their race.
I don't know.
On to the last Team, and before infiltrating the last team I am going to list the teams again:
Involuntary Criminals (Black Market criminals, some are hired by Legal Criminals for special duties like massacring Settlers while wearing costumes that make them look like Native Americans)
Voluntary Capitalists (Gold Bugs, and others wanting scarcity for others, abundance for them)
Voluntary Socialists (Andrews may be the only one, so here Labor Dollars are used, but this team may include some Mormons, some Families, some Military, the Amish, all depending upon competitive definitions of the term socialism, but only if that word is not falsified in some devious manner by the devils advocates and other entities hidden or out in the open)
Equitable Commerce (Even if you don't know it you fit here so this team may include all the voluntary competitors who compete voluntarily and their work improves voluntary competition, as time goes by)
Infiltrating this last group may be the best place for you as your contributions will be heard and evaluated based upon how well your contribution works to reach the goals provided by the race organizer.
If there is any debt that debt will be paid by the person who caused that debt, so there is a personal interest in each person to get that DEBT number down to zero, right away. Your help would be appreciated, and you can certainly learn much from the voluntary capitalists on this specific angle of view.
If there is starvation then this group can concentrate on accurately identifying the people who are starving and then each individual in this group could make more food and then that food is equitably transferred to those starving people who most certainly would do something equitable in exchange for food. Hell they would do just about anything to keep from starving, after all.
If there is torture, same thing, the torture victims would do something equitable in exchange for avoidance of another torture session.
If there is murder, same thing, the murder victims, not yet murdered, would do something equitable in exchange for avoidance of murder, hell, some of them will even do bad things in exchange for not being murdered.
So you get all the equitable people gathered up and you show them how many jobs there are, how many opportunities there are to work, a a hobby, a second job, to make a little more food today, to exchange with someone starving, someone who is willing to do something to avoid starving to death. No jobs here, and look over there: starving people, guess what, this isn't rocket science.
How many people are out of work, but not yet starving? Could they be inspired to join the equitable group as a farmer? What is stopping the jobless people from entering the competition, the race, to make the best food, at the lowest price, in exchange for something of equitable value from someone who will do almost anything to keep his own butt, or his families hides, from starving?
Why, my dear Bear, is food scarce?
Why, my dear Bear, is food scarce at the same time as unemployment is abundant?
What, my dear Bear, is keeping the starving people willing do do almost anything to get a meal from the people willing to do almost anything to get an equitable job that pays an equitable return on the investment of work (time/labor/skill/resource/willpower/conscience/faith)?
Why are the unemployed potential farmers disconnected from the unemployed starving people?
They are so lazy that their goal is to starve?
Like those bad people in the church in Texas: "Oh, my God, they are killing themselves!", as the military tanks with flame throwers drive through the Church.
You take on Mission Impossible, you work with all the people in all the groups and sub groups, and you find the equitable ones, me, just me so far, I suppose, I don't know, Jeff of course, for sure your family is managing to avoid iniquity, I'm not really the race organizer, I confess, I am not God, but you find the equitable group, the people who will reach THE goals soonest, whichever goals that are actually set, and what is the method by which that goal is reached, what is the goal?
How is the goal measured?
What if all the unemployed people were afforded a measure of credit, in the form of a no-interest loan, and they began to use a plot of land, with Solar Panels installed on that plot of land, and a well to pull water out of the ground, and a Modular Vertical Farming Unit, or two, or three, (more is better for reasons that become obvious to the farmer), and the power required to produce powerful food is provided by the sun, which is free, and the water, which is free but now becoming less free due to some people polluting it and passing on the costs of polluting it to other people, but water is still almost as free as the sun power, and plant life does grow for free too, seeds magically become more than just seeds, seeds become tomatoes, seeds become carrots, seeds become powerful things that starving people will do just about anything to get, including, as it happens, honoring a demand to pay back what they borrow, every cent that they borrow, if someone would simply offer credit where credit is due, and the actual Starving People are actually Farming their own food, instead of having their POWER taken from them and used against them.
Seriously, though, think about it, please, why, seriously why, can't starving people make food on Earth?
Why are there people who will work, if allowed, why are they not working while, at the same time, there are starving people who will do anything, any thing, to keep from starving to death.
Why are there people willing to work, wanting to work, begging to work, not working while there are people being tortured when people being tortured will do anything, any thing, to avoid another torture session.
Why are there people willing to work, wanting to work, begging to work, while a potential murder victim will do anything to keep their family alive?
What keeps the unemployed unemployed while there is so much demand for good things done to feed the starving, provide sanctuary for the tortured and soon to be murdered millions?
Here in California there is this thing called The Mojave desert, and the State I grew up in, The State of New Jersey, can be hidden away in this Mojave Desert, never to be seen again, lost forever in the vast expanse of sand, bushes, lizards, rocks, birds, rabbits, and underground rivers.
So, seriously, would all those unemployed, soon to be tortured, and soon to be murdered, or just 100 of them, agree to Settle on a few acres in The Mojave Desert, one road in, one road out, if they could be allowed to migrate, run away from their present slavery, given enough credit to start something new, a New World, given enough POWER to be capable of using that scarce POWER afforded to them, to make more POWER on their own, and enough POWER made on their own to pay back the entire CREDIT SCORE and then, perhaps, even more POWER paid back to their willing creditors who are willing to take that risk of failure?
What would those unemployed people have to do exactly, what would those torture victims or soon to be torture victims have to do, exactly, or what would those 100 soon to be murdered family members have to do exactly, as they go into that acreage hidden in the middle of The Mojave Desert, where The State of New Jersey can hide?
Assemble Solar Panels?
Dig a water well?
Assemble Green House type Modular Vertical Farming Units?
Put up a few Steel Buildings on Concrete?
Start making more food than they need, and have enough extra high quality and low cost food to export for imports of things needed, and do so at the equitable price?
100 people can't do that?
100 people prefer to never work again?
100 people prefer more torture?
100 people prefer to be murdered and tossed in the new pile or the old pile?
Did I get off track?
"Why, Joe, do you suppose RP supports the Constitution?"
My guess is that Ron Paul understands the vital need to limit the POWER of The Defense of Liberty, and a constitution can help reach that goal.
The Constitution was written so as to be easily manipulated by anyone so as to mean anything at all. That was a major criticism of it. Why can't Ron Paul interpret it to mean specific limits are the limits specified?
No Aggressive Wars for the profit of a few at the cost of all the victims.
I see no reason why not, so maybe Ron Paul supports The Constitution as he interprets it his way.
"It is that one thing that those words stand for that makes a person a Child of God, that being Born Again thing."
Which group (not which label) of the many groups people belong in are going to reach for zero human starvation, zero human torture, and zero human murdering human?
Which, as may be error, or as may be hidden goals, go the opposite direction, toward higher numbers of starved humans, higher numbers of tortured humans, and higher numbers of murdered humans murdered by humans?
Is it a good idea for those working one way to make themselves less powerful, weak, and defenseless, as they send their scarce power to those who are going the other way, making those going the other way more powerful, and absolutely powerful, to a point at which the powerful ones are so powerful that their power can't even be questioned?
Al: Hey Joe.
Joe: You again?
Al: I have this bridge in Brooklyn for sale, are you interested?
Joe: Same story Al, different day, no thanks.
"When I get into the mood, I might try screaming at heaven. I will probably ask God to have mercy on us and deliver us. Last night it was said the first congress when working on the declaration prayed for 2 hours and believed Psalms 35 gave them the direction to declare independence."
1776 to 2012 is a long time for evil to be working here in America, and that can measure many things, including the power of resistance, since we are not the worst yet - by a collective or aggregate measure. When things get to the worst evil possible everyone is victim to evil, and that is well documented fact, in places like Cambodia during Pol Pot's reign of terror, financed by Wall Street, and in places like Nazi Germany during Hitler's reign of terror, financed by Wall Street, and in places like Bolshevik Russian during Stalin's reign of terror, financed by Wall Street, to name just 3 interesting examples of where this road goes.
We don't have to go on this road, and I think that was the point of The Declaration of Independence, leading to The Articles of Confederation, which were working as a Democratic Federated Republic, which was working well enough to repel the largest invading and occupying army of aggression for profit of the day, and which continued to work to free the slaves even while Daniel Shays ran away from slavery in Massachusetts and found sanctuary in Vermont under that Confederated arrangement of due process where The People worked to make government of The People, by The People, and for The People.
Then Al and other slave traders took over in 1788, so We The People have managed to keep the spark of Liberty alive for a relatively long time while "providing the means by which we [other people] suffer" in Germany, Russia, Cambodia, Guatemala, Korea, Vietnam, Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Libya, Syria, etc.
If we are powerful enough to cause all that torture and death, it seems to me, we are powerful enough to feed one starving human being who could then be counted on as a possible source of good faith and credit.
I've been very wrong before, and I will be very wrong again, but on this I think I have all my ducks in a row.
I've done my homework teacher.
"I am sorry. I don’t like it."
Sorrow has a place, I suppose, but forgiveness is beyond me power here, or anywhere, perhaps. I don't know. I am not one of God's Children. I'm one of the others.
I am merely one of God's creations, but I stand on Earth and I stand for LIFE!
"And I might add as I did, at least there is a 50/50 chance of benevolence in the heart of a single individual"
The thinking behind sortition is such that human beings are basically good, and if science offers any help in finding an accurate measure of how much of a percentage among human beings are good and how much are bad then I think the numbers are about 90/10.
90% start out good and 10% lie, cheat, steal, and beat the goodness out of the victims, hammering on them with deception, threats of violence, and vicious, terrifying, and horrible violence until they too are as bad as they can be made with those techniques used so well by that minority of the whole.
So the thinking behind sortition, if my numbers are correct, and if science is correct when applied in this area, is sound, and rather than flipping a coin, the gamble is more like playing craps where bad is snake eyes and any other roll turns up a winner.
Providing the means by which we suffer, on the other hand, is like playing craps where the house wins if the players roll snake eyes, and the dice has only 1 dot on each side.
Heads they win, tails we lose.
You will pay, and you will not question it.
"See, some of it is actually sinking in such that I am able recall who said it and where to get it!"
Equity dear bear, the level of awareness I am now armed with concerning a spiritual power cannot be unlearned.
Case in point:
Reinforcement, from any angle, in knowing right from wrong, helps in knowing right from wrong, it just does, it just works out that way, where there may have been doubts, arguments, contentions, rationalizations, excuses, contradictions, duplicity, darkness, the introduction of reinforcements, from any angle, in knowing right from wrong helps in knowing right from wrong. There is a power to it, a being more powerful, of being less doubtful, of being less unsure of knowing right from wrong, having reinforcements such as those interpretations you offer concerning scripture.
I am not saying that everything you report about scripture reinforces my own sense of right and wrong, certainly not, I can't say that I am born again, but there is power, I sense, in knowing, for example, the story of David.
I don't have all the pieces arranged into perfect sense, far from it, so I appreciate all that appears to be help, appearing to be reinforcements. additions to the sense of right, and help in reinforcing the understanding of wrong.
Thanks, you are the teacher here, in more ways than you may realize.
"Did you give me a quote about the constitution taking x number of months and had only 4 strings which anything could be played upon? Or something to that effect? I have been trying to find it."
I can find that again. It was in one of the books about Anti-Federalism. This effort may be time consuming. I have things need to be done, and I don't know if other things, other paths are being neglected too much. I don't know these things, but my measure of value is not of money, and that makes me very odd compared to almost everyone else in common practice.
"made like A Fiddle, with but few Strings,"
"play any tune upon it they pleased."
"Regarding the Constitutional Convention, he [William Manning] echoed a common Anti-Federalist complaint: the framers deliberately employed ambiguous language to facilitate their aristocratic designs. He confidently asserted, "The Convention who made it intended to destroy our free government by, or they neaver would have spent 4 Months in making such an inexpliset thing." The Constitution was a "made like A Fiddle, with but few Strings," so that those in power might "play any tune upon it they pleased." The ambiguity of the Constitution was a deliberate product of Federalist aristocratic machinations-confirmed by the practices of Federalists since ratification. Under the guise of constructive interpretations, Federalists were seeking to extend the powers of their federal government and trample on the people's liberties."
Modern day version:
A sly devil no? Rewarded handsomely for doing the deeds on those evil church goes in Waco Texas.
Fearless, fearless, leader.
How fearless is he?
Well, it depends. It depends on what is...is.
Thanks for the song, and I have to get to work. I may return here to edit, or return to continue in other discussions later.
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