"I would like to throw out that while I understand what you are saying and agree that "that" is part of the problem, our discussion would be greatly enhanced by returning to the point of my post so I know if we are on the same page because it began out of interest in and love for a grandchild who is growing in grace and truth."
In order to set the stage up for my answer I think it may be a good idea to define what I mean by my sympathy applied to the young person in question. I had a father who would be physically ill when he observed other people who were ill and I call that empathy, and I call that empathy only because I need a stronger word than sympathy, because I am not like may father was, I am only capable of imagining what someone else is feeling, I don't myself feel bad when someone else is feeling bad.
I am sympathetic concerning your grandchild, because I apply my thinking along those lines. I do so willfully, and with great interest. I cannot be emphatic, so defined.
I participated in very few public speaking events and as a child, having been uprooted enough times to become very shy, or other things occurring whereby a fear grew in me of contact with many people who may have their attention aimed at me, and those fears I can say, without reservation, can be crippling to someone who may have information that is worth communicating.
Avoiding crippling things may be a good idea.
The messenger can be shot before the message is delivered.
In that context, or along those lines, I began responding to this Topic.
I can also add that my fears of public speaking were overcome, to a large degree, during the limited time of my name being on the National Congressional Election Ballot in 1996.
I spoke to the voters assembled on a few occasions, and I did so without stumbling over my words, and afterwards there were some occasions whereby people shook my hand and thanked me for having made the effort.
I heard: "I agree with what you are saying but..."
I was the Libertarian voice during one official Congressional debate. I went alone to it, at my own expense. The incumbent did not attend, at my expense too.
It amazes me, as you may never know, that I "ran for congress", in part because of Ron Paul's example. That was the past me, and I can be sympathetic there too. Past me, is not the current me. I've slayed many dragons since.
For the most part, because of Waco.
I ran on the "it isn't nice to torture and murder church goers" campaign.
I did not mince words, I did not play the games, I did not blame THINGS for the actions of people, and I did not lose the election (it was stolen, they are all stolen with few exceptions). The same things happening at that election effort on my part occur today, in my personal life, as just recently I showed up, going past the Rapiscan scanners, at the court house entrance, to "Jury Duty". Being herded into a room, past the bar. During "interviews" I spoke to the assembled people, a rare thing for me, and I did not mince words, I did not play the games, I did not share the lies, accurate perception was not in demand there either, not in an official capacity.
My versions of communications, factual, without the lies, is not in demand even today - as measured mathematically.
If your grandchild does not acknowledge the significance of the lie whereby people share the lie, whereby THINGS are held accountable for the actions of people, then to me, that is a very poor, weak, and powerless position to be in, and I can sympathize.
That is the context of my message.
My point of mentioning the often resort to exile does not apply to you, as you are among the few exceptions. I do not speak personally, in public, often, but I have been writing, in public, almost every day, for decades.
I don't know who the remnant are, I can't, but I know that we exist, if by remnant I can refer to an author named Albert J. Nock, in reference to those who refuse to "join'em" because we won't claim that we can't "beat'em", or some other shared lie - perhaps many of us are the silent remnant, not yet ready to stick our necks out very far, not willing to be counted so overtly, in public, for various reasons, not just for fear, or even concern, or self-preservation.
If we can't have fun, a balance, there is no point in waking up in the morning - it seems to me.
I don't know.
Your grandchild may be setting a fine example, if it does not get too hot, and if he does not wither, and if he does not become, like the pod people, one of them; I mean, without any ambiguity, one of those people who share the lie that THINGS are accountable for the actions of people.
"There are a growing number of children, my grandson being one, who are being educated outside the propaganda machine."
The propaganda machine, a case in point, includes all the spaces between all the ears, and I know my parents were infected, one still is infected, the lies run very deep.
Without prejudice is a very interesting term, a new one on me, worth understanding - it seems to me - and possibly connected intimately to this line of thinking: making THINGS accountable for the actions of people = prejudice.
"These children and many of their parents are just beginning with issues like "foreign aid" and realizing the lies, as you say, contained therein."
Principle lies are like bases of operations, like Central Banks, where the ancillary sat-elites grow (exponentially) from the root, like weeds, perhaps, persist, or like ants persisting, until sugar and boric acid employs the army to deliver the solution to the queen - if you know what I mean.
I think you do.
"However, I just want to be sure that you understand we are talking 13 and 14 year olds."
We (my wife and I) are blessed with a son who is 23, and a daughter who is 18. After Waco I forbid the television for about 5 years, and that may have been a significant unintended consequence of that abuse of collected power by those people who had obvious goals in mind. My 13 and 14 year old's were teaching me, in those years, as much, or more, than I was teaching them, but some lies are very persistent, and require constant vigilance. I hope my own children can measure up to your grandchild's standard where the bar is being set very high.
All things are relative.
"The kids are digging up the information and discussing it among themselves."
If all the information is couched in the language whereby the lie of making THINGS accountable for the actions of people, which so far that appears to be the truth, unfortunately, then it is WIN/WIN for the Legal Criminals, and that remains to be my POINT that I think aught to be acknowledged.
"Yes, a debate will take place; however, they have pretty much resolved the conclusion."
Respectfully, I disagree, if the making of THINGS accountable for the deeds of people remains intact, then the Trojan Horse is in the gate, and the virus will consume everything soon enough, and I may be a nutcase after all, but that is how I see it, again, due diligence, so long as I have thrown my hat in this ring.
I was born in 1958, thank God, mom and dad, and I walk the EARTH!
"My grandson knew very little about the Constitution several months ago and yet, through the internet, had many questions about the way our government operates and he had a growing suspicion that much of the news was lies."
I can't know, but the words used in that sentence above could indicate a manifestation of the lie, since the counterfeit version looks so much like the genuine article, as designed.
Government is not a THING to be held accountable for the actions of people unless the true believers (in the lie) do.
VERBS: "our government operates".
The genuine article, and not the counterfeit version, is a convenience, a use of language whereby the speaker does not list all the names of all the people who share the thoughts and actions specific to the SET of people being referenced with the word "government".
If the speaker is employing the genuine truth of the matter, whereby "our government operates" then there is a list of names that constitute "our government".
If everyone is not on the list, then how can it be "our" government?
I do not torture.
I do not mass murder.
The power I earn is stolen from me, and that power is used to kill my friends IN Liberty, my power is used, after it is stolen from me, to torture my friends IN Liberty.
If that is not due diligence, say so, and I'll get the picture.
How does our government work?
Are you infected?
Is your grandson infected?
I don't know. But I have an interest in knowing, because, as stated, failure to reach back to the roots of the infection is a set-up for failure in this adventure, this animated contest of freedom, yes, or no?
Failing to acknowledge the fact that I still, during weak moments, think in terms of holding THINGS accountable for actions done by people, is very bad for me, as that weakness lends way too much moral, and then eventually material, support to very bad people.
Nevermind, nothing worth noting here, insignificant stuff, and irrelevant.
I can sympathize. My children teach me, if I listen.
" What he did not have was a forum...a place to discuss with his peers. His parents weren't as informed as they should have been. He felt like he was in exile like you said about yourself, in that he did not have a place to discuss his thoughts with peers...where he wouldn't be treated as just a kid by adults that he wasn't so sure knew as much as they thought they knew. His parents are also listening and growing, thinking and learning. They are also learning to respect their sons' thoughts and listen and encourage him.."
So...having a particularly destructive dragon in sight, if it exists, and I can't know, will it be slayed or not?
Language is being used to convey a known SET of people contained in the word "government", which is ours, and those people do this, and those people do that, so those people, in that SET, are accountable, responsible, because THINGS are not responsible, and THINGS are not accountable, such as "government".
Government did it.
Which is it, in any case?
"My point is that while perhaps imperfect to you...this is all a very good thing."
Is the imperfection all there is to consider in my mind?
I don't think so. I can sympathize, and I can offer a word of advice.
Slay that dragon if it exists in your mind, please. I think you may eventually see the significance of my concern, sharing it, if you will.
Or not, I can't know, you may be employing language in a way that intends to convey a SET of people called "government" where by the people sharing those thoughts and actions are people on that list, where it is too much work to list all the names on the list, and you are not infected with the lie - at all - more power to you.
I think it is worth the effort to find out.
It was for me.
It still is.
"They are moving in the right direction. I don't think there are any lies in the approach or their conclusions."
Tests are easy enough to invent. A badge or license is not a requirement to find out the facts.
If by "government" the user of the word means "them" and not "us" then how can it be "our" government?
In context (abundant examples):
Fill in the blank.
I am merely delivering the message. What you do with the message is out of my power. I prefer good things.
"I am certain they are all aware that there are individuals within those groups we call government, corporation, lobbyist, elitists that are responsible for the immoral decisions and the lies."
"They" constitute "our" government?
I have to question myself, sure, as I step outside my being, figuratively speaking, and look at me being an ass about this, and I see a nutcase too often.
This is not insignificant.
The bodies continue to pile up.
It is only insignificant because it isn't on the kitchen table yet.
So, yes, I'm the bad messenger boy.
Who is responsible?
I'm a creep too, sure, I get that too, and I may be stepping over the line of decorum. Sure, I get that. I spoil the fun, plopping tortured bodies onto every kitchen table, figuratively, party pooper.
Here comes the torture and mass murder guy. Bodies all over me, 8 by 10 glossies, arms, legs, severed heads.
Commingled masses, all burnt.
It, not ambiguously it, but specifically it, the dragon of which I speak, is in the headlights, because I am shinning light on it.
If it does not exist, in your world, thank God, and thanks for avoiding it, thanks for not lending it any moral or material support.
If only we can all do the same.
Things can be falsely made accountable for the actions of people.
A dragon or not?
Insignificant, superfluous, fecal matter, or a word to the wise worthy of note, if it exists, and if it exists, then can it be rendered powerless?
If so, then to me, good things are bound to happen like this:
"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
Lies do not infect the liars who invent the lies.
Who does that leave?
I don't know, in your case.
"He is not just playing video games and twitting. Education works...is a slow process...but is happening in some quarters. I see hope in that. Don't you?"
Much hope, more so now than ever, while at the same time, unfortunately, the level of ongoing destruction, on our dimes, appears to be peaking in many ways too.
If Rand Paul can be infected, whereby Dad is not, if that is the case, and I can't know, then, it seems to me, the Dragon is worthy of note, and that is my point.
The Dragon is in darkness, not in the light, so laughter, fun, profits, and good things are happening all around, even while the Dragon works in our sleep - for now - and even while our earnings flow to specific people who are now torturing and mass murdering innocent victims.
They scream bloody murder, some people take time to listen, some people want more.
Here is my vote.
Here is my dime.
It may be a good idea to slay that Dragon if it is infecting you, or your grandson.
That is not all that I am saying, but I am saying that much, because I think that that specific point is relevant to your grandson stepping into the battle where that Dragon sleeps.
I can sympathize.
There is hope.
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