As I do yours, but you know me, afraid I am a bother.
“COPD is tough: not good news, but mom has a safe place?”
Jeff’s mom is not a Believer, perhaps this will bring her to faith in the Lord. It seems she has had COPD for a couple of years, but family did not realize the significance…and I don’t think I even knew. It seems though that the disease is progressing. She is still a smoker. I read wiki. Stopping smoking is supposed to slow the progress of the disease, but I don’t know if at 81 she will choose that route. She said though, that her desire/ability to smoke has slowed, but the nicotine addiction is causing some issues. She got checked out on the motorized wheel chair at the local grocer today. Jeff’s sister sent a picture and she had a big smile and looked happy. Perhaps the steroids are helping.
bear: Does power corrupt, and does absolute power corrupt completely?
Josf: The question is not specific enough to lead to an accurate answer, so the question fails the test of enumerated accurate observations listed above.
I posed my question about absolute power to Jeff. He indicated that it depended who wielded that power. I suppose he was saying the same thing as you, that the question lacked a qualifier.
I spoke to him that certainly everyone wasn’t bad because I was able to safely sit in the car in the dark for 30 minutes in the Walmart parking lot without being accosted. Jeff indicated that there are certain parts of certain cities that I would not be able to do that. It made me think about the school rituals you spoke to me of from experience.
We also discussed the grandmother who makes pies, who is a good person vs. a criminal who murders. Certainly there are good people. But I think perhaps that what is not differentiated in this thread (though I have not read all the posts) is that even though there are particularly good people, those same people are judicially bad when compared to Holy God. No one can measure up to the standard of holy, not even good people. We have all sinned; we have all done wrong, even those who are “good” among us humans.
So certainly there are degrees of goodness. But thinking about something being 100% clean and pure compared with something being contaminated with dirt: even though that thing is 95% clean and pure and only 5% dirty, that thing is still dirty or contaminated. That contamination is what separates man from God. The Bible says our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. Our goodness is contaminated by our sin making us unclean. Thus the reason for saying that while we might be good in particular, our goodness is judicially lacking.
The words of Jesus:
• Mark 10:18 KJV
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Even though we do good, we struggle with sin. Jesus said hatred was equal to murder. I personally have hated. That hatred comes from a murderous heart. How then can I be good if my heart is capable of evil? How then can I be good when I am not only capable of evil, but I actually perform evil?
“Does moral conscience (power) corrupt, and does absolute moral conscience (power) corrupt completely?
“I think the obvious answer is no.”
I think you are right. However, that moral conscience power is not capable of keeping one from corruption. It is by our moral conscience that we know what is wrong. However, that moral conscience does not keep us from doing wrong. We have a choice to make and sometimes I make the wrong choice…on purpose because I want to do what I want to do instead of doing what I know to be right.
“Honest (moral conscience) POWER tends to be good (yes or no)?”
Yes, but it does not mean that we will do good. However it is good.
“Deceptive (criminal) POWER tends to be bad for the victims (criminals default to no)?”
Yes, It is bad for both the criminals and the victims because even the criminals are victims of themselves.
“bear, did you ask the question the way you did so as to purposefully avoid getting an accurate answer?”
No, Joe, I did not consider that the question needed a qualifier. I did not think that the question could not be answered. I figured that the intent of whoever coined that question was that the answer is yes and only yes.
I did an ixquick search and found this:
“"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
Which makes me ask: Do bad men become great, or do good men who are great become bad? It makes me think of the dirty system of politics and how some people advocate abstaining from politics because the system is bad. Is the system bad because the system generates power? Why has the power in centralized government been used for evil? Why is the power that could be used for so much good used instead for so much evil? Is it because people have become corrupted by power or is it because the drive for power is dominant in corrupt people?
“That brings me to the point at which much of our work, bear and I, has continually pointed to God's Law, or what I call Natural Law, such as an example known as The Golden Rule, which is not so much a commandment to be followed or else, not in my opinion, it is a method of operation, and it works as a litmus test for anyone wanting to know the difference between a friend who will help and a foe who will harm on purpose.”
But Joe, I cannot perfectly achieve the golden rule. I have a temper. I have shortage of patience. I can be crabby. I can hurt feelings and do so while I know I am doing it. Though for the most part, I do try to live by the Golden Rule, I am not made of gold so what comes from me is not always golden. Anytime I fail to follow the golden rule, what does that make me? A rule breaker? Yes, I cannot follow the rule even when I want, for the most part, to follow the rule. I, even I with the Holy Spirit of God residing within my body cannot keep the golden rule. It is impossible for me to always love in every single circumstance.
Here is a verse about that:
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
“If a person says that good and bad cannot ever be universally understood, then they are trying to fit that shoe onto their victims, or they are merely parroting a lie, as if their own moral conscience is missing, or their own moral conscience is dead from lack of use.”
I don’t know what it means that good and bad cannot be universally understood. What does that mean? Does it mean that people cannot agree on what is good or what is bad?
“God power, something I know to be a fact, the power of creation, with our without the specific measure of it, other than the output of it, does not corrupt, so the answer to the question is again, in that way, no.
Does power corrupt, and does absolute power corrupt completely?
God power creates, and absolute God power creates absolutely.”
Ah, but that leads back to the attributes of God. If God were not holy, then absolute power could be used in a corrupt manner. But because God is holy, then absolute power is used only for righteous purposes.
So, when I asked the original question:
“Does power corrupt, and does absolute power corrupt completely?”
I was thinking of the kind of power that a king would have. What would the qualifier of that kind of power be? Does that kind of power cause corruption?