Comment: The salesman is a great guy

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The salesman is a great guy

and completely honest, and if all men were like him we might could pull it off. Trouble is, not all are like him, ergo we need laws for the lawless.

I am not sure if the guy who started the thread wants us to get into it here, I would just say that if you do decide to read the links, you might understand the objection better. One of those is a DP article and perhaps you could tell me there what I am missing. It has nothing to do with maturity, it has to do with rational self-interest when consuming public goods, a well known and documented economic phenomenon.

With the self ownership question, I'd like to start a thread here on it, but I'd like it to be for rational discussion, not railing and anger I have seen too often here. I think the point is that if the conditions described in the link are true then there is no self-ownership in the sense of only you get to decide what the limits of your behavior are, short of force or sometimes fraud.

If no God then no objective basis for one morality over another (such as self-ownership being morally superior to "great" men owning "lesser" ones. If we belong to God, then He gets to write those rules and may or may not enlist Government as His "minister" to impose punishment. Obviously just because God says something is wrong does not mean that He is OK with the state punishing for it- some sins He may prefer to punish for Himself, taking it out of the hands of the law. but it does open the door for going beyond the "there is only one thing the government can use force on me for, and its if I initiate force on someone else."

Localism is for people who can still sleep at night even though somebody they don't know in a city they have never been is doing things differently. ("Localism, A Philosophy of Government" on Amazon for Kindle or Barnes and Noble ebook websites)