Comment: Okay, let's look at these.

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In reply to comment: Here's a few references (see in situ)

Okay, let's look at these.

Let's go through your references one by one.

1. This is a questionnaire study which grouped things like "hamburgers" under the "red meat" category. The researchers sent out a form to a bunch of people who then had to remember what they ate for the past few years, and write it down. This sort of study cannot prove cause and effect. In fact, one prominent researcher went so far as to say that the conclusions drawn in 90% of all observational/questionnaire studies are wrong.

2. This study appears on T Colin Campbell's website thus is obviously biased.

3. This is another questionnaire study, only given to people who were recently diagnosed with endometrial cancer. Again, such a study cannot be used to prove any sort of cause and effect.

4. This is not a study, just an article recapping the experiment from the China Study, already thoroughly debunked by Denise Minger.

5. This study amounts to a single blood test where one group are professed vegetarians and the other group are not. The study concludes that vegetarian white blood cells are more active than in non-vegetarians. However, there are no criteria required for the non-vegetarian group. Almost all vegetarians are more health conscious than the average non-vegetarian, but of course that confounding variable isn't taken into account. This is a single examination study, rather than a clinical or observational study, and while more credible than an observational study, is still prone to such confounding variables.

6. Yet another questionnaire study. Asking women what they ate over a 5.5 year period and comparing the answers to who got cancer.

7. Your final link is not a study, but an article which actually references a couple of the inconclusive studies you gave above.

So, do you have any clinical studies which support your view? Because here are a few clinical studies which support mine:

1. Primary Prevention of Cardiovascular Disease with a Mediterranean Diet - - This clinical study compared a low-fat, mostly animal free diet (just fish) with a higher fat Mediterranean diet including animal fats and red meat. The study was stopped halfway through because the low-fat group was dying of heart disease at a far faster rate.

2. A case-control study of the association of diet and obesity with gout in Taiwan. - This clinical study followed a group of men and rigourously assessed their diet. Those who ate more animal fat had a 20% decreased risk of gout, while those who ate predominately plants had a 10% increased risk of gout.

3. A low-fat diet decreases high density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol levels by decreasing HDL apolipoprotein transport rates. - A four week clinical study comparing a high fat, animal based diet with a low-fat grain based diet. Those on the low-fat diet had higher LDL (bad cholesterol) and triglycerides than the high fat group by the end of the study.

4. Cardiovascular disease in the Masai. - Research done on 400 men of the Masai tribe who live on a 100% meat + milk diet. Not a single one of the men examined showed evidence of heart disease. A single examination study in that the researchers couldn't prove that the Masai they were testing hadn't been temporarily vegetarian for a week before examination.

5. Vegan diets may lead to malnutrition and growth retardation in infants. - A single examination of infants brought into the hospital where the parents volunteered that they were vegan. 25 infants showed signs of malnutrition, while 47 showed signs of growth retardation. The main source of nutrition for most of these infants was a soya milk preparation.

6. Dietary zinc intake of vegetarian and nonvegetarian patients with anorexia nervosa.;2-1/abstract - An examination of zinc levels of anorexia nervosa patients. A secondary finding of the study was that although only 3.2% of the US population are vegetarian, approximately half of all sufferers of anorexia nervosa are self-declared vegetarians.

7. Long-Term Ovo-Lacto Vegetarian Diet Impairs Vitamin B-12 Status in Pregnant Women. - Vegetarian and non-vegetarian women were followed during pregnancy, their diets monitored and blood taken regularly. Vegetarian women were 7 times more likely to have a potentially damaging vitamin B-12 deficiency than non-vegetarians.

All of the studies I listed are clinical or single examination studies. No questionnaires, or studies of studies. All of them have hard conclusions which show real cause and effect. When you can come up with some of your own that show meat causes cancer, or any other western malady, then we can start talking. Until then, all you're doing is blowing propaganda smoke.