Comment: if

If you are really interested in conversation I'll continue on here. I know I won't change your mind that's fine. Please don't throw around strawman and fallacy so quickly because because you don't seem to be doing much in the way of straight forward argumentation to my points.

I never said you made a claim about God's existence did I? No I did not.

I never said that killing innocent children was moral, or owning another person is moral and "follows the principles of liberty" because that would be backwards. First we have to believe that we have the "right" to liberty or that ethics even exist before I could make that case. But one can't make that case unless A God of some type exists and has created a moral law for us to follow. Then if we deviate from it, we have done something unethical.

If however he does exist, he can create laws for us to follow as best we can. Though for us it would be a stretch to even fathom or understand them, we could work at it. I believe that liberty is something that is a sort of "best case scenario" but not anything we're owed. Because no one is owed anything from God, but having our heads bashed in by rocks and being thrown into hell for all eternity, no matter our age. That is my honest stand. However he has deemed that we should treat each other with kindness.

Without God there is no "ought". No reason to follow any law, because if we transgress we've only gone against human norms that are not absolutes in any real sense. We might existentially not like to be killed but that doesn't mean that murdering is "wrong". In fact, some people quite like murdering and think it's just fine. Case in point, Barrack Obama, ha. Now he may have a still small voice put into him by God testifying to his guilt, but he seems quite happy to override that as do you and I in many different instances.

You seem to make yourself a God. How rude and ridiculous to claim that you're "better" than God. Based on what standard? As my father would say, you seem to "think that your crap doesn't stink". But believe me it does.

For all the big words you trotted out, codification, physicalized (not a word), they still amounted to this. "Ethics are just made up things that most people agree on". That is not much of an argument for why there shouldn't be slaves.

In fact, many people were sold as slaves by their parents, knowing they'd have a better life. I believe that the most repugnant thing about slavery in our country was brutality. But some slave masters were quite kind. Imagine if you will a person sold into slavery to their neighbor who is a wealthy land owner by their own poor family. The Land owner gives them work to do, gives them clothes, a roof over their head and good food, perhaps even enough to spread a little of that to their poor family who they perhaps still see next door and are able to spend time with. Would I want to be owned by that person? Perhaps I would if I was poor and destitute.

One thing is certain, slavery has existed since man existed and it still exists today. You'll have a very hard time convincing people of your arguments for why people should come around to your way of thinking on ethics and on slaver if ethics are just something that herds of people made up and then wrote down, making them physical. That Constitution can be burned, ignored spit on. My case is that since God is real, many things in that Constitution are in keeping with his will and plan for all humanity and that to defy them is to defy him and will bring about retribution from him and despite what you think Mo, he's tougher than you. I mean all he did was create a cosmos.