Comment: Now I'm not quite sure what

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Now I'm not quite sure what

Now I'm not quite sure what your stance is on ownership of real estate is... Isn't there some difference between personal property (eg. clothes, cars, weapons, food, electronics, gold) and real estate? And why not throw in other types of titles, like copyright, trademark and patent? If you abandon a gold coin is it still really your property? If someone else finds it and picks it up are they stealing from you? What about land? How do you think the standards of possession should be defined for these types of property?

I've learned about libertarian principals through Mises, Rothbard, Lew Rockwell, Ron Paul, Tom Woods, Gary North, and so on. Really, this is more properly called anarcho-capitalism than libertarianism. The actual anarchists and libertarians I have learned, are socialist.

I'm not saying that collectivism is good or the way to go. I agree with you, socialism is bad. Mises was right, pricing is really, really important. So the left libertarians must be all bad too... or are they?

Looking into it more closely, I discover that there was co-option back then just as there is now. (eg. Tea Party) There were anti-state libertarians. Take Mikhail Bakunin for instance. He was as famous as Marx in his time. In Man, Society, and Freedom he wrote that liberty is "the revolt of the individual against all divine, collective, and individual authority." He utterly rejected statism. He predicted Marx's communist authoritarianism would hurt the people and then fail.

The original anarchist ideal was to run everything locally. But it wasn't to be, Marx beat him just like Romney beat Ron Paul... by cheating. The state socialists co-opted the libertarian movement then just as the state-capitalists co-opt the libertarian movement now. The right-libertarian idea is also to run things locally. Is this really much different from what Bakunin advocated?

If we look past the rhetoric, past some of the terms that instantly turn us off, I think we'll see a lot more common ground with some of the Occupy crowd. They say "equality" and we cringe. We say "free market" and they cringe.

I feel I've been a little too idealistic, my responses to left libertarians/anarchists too knee jerk, and I'm trying to understand the context and nuances of their positions instead of rushing to refuse them.