Comment: Goal posts moving again?

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Goal posts moving again?

If an accurate record of an actual event becomes known as having happened, then how is that made into my government?

"How is your government solution voluntary?"

If instead of acknowledgment of the facts YOU twist my words to be an opinion I have, then YOU move the goal posts again, it is YOUR routine.

YOU aught to stop spreading falsehoods.

"If a government solution is arrived at by a fraction of the to be governed population, then it is not voluntary on the accounts of all the people to be governed."

If YOU speak of something specific, something planted like a goal post, then someone else can look at YOUR goal post from another angle. If someone else offers a measure of YOUR goal post and you ignore that offering, and if then you start digging another place to place YOUR goal post, then such games YOU make are frivolous wastes of time to me.

If the topic concerns something called government then those who view government can offer their measure of it.

If YOUR measure of it is exactly the same thing as CRIME, as the CRIMINALS resort to deception, threats, and violence upon the innocent, then my measure of YOUR definition of government is that YOUR definition of government is by your definition the same thing as CRIME.

If the criminals that run YOUR definition of government claim to have license, badges, authority, and POWER over their subjects, then according to those criminals, as far as I can see, those criminals are worse than the criminals who do not claim to have license, badges, authority, and if there is a POWER struggle between the criminals with badges, and the criminals without badges, such a struggle is merely fictional, as they, those criminals, and their victims, have created, and are maintaining, a FREE MARKET of SLAVES, and their POWER struggle involves agreements among them to divide up the number of slaves among them.

Criminals with badges may send their slaves to Afghanistan to keep the flow of opium flowing to the criminals without badges in the cities where those forms of opium are distributed among the slaves to keep the slaves enslaved.

If that is what you are calling government, planted as a goal post for you to then discuss YOUR definition of government, then you can share that definition of government with anyone else who may agree with YOUR definition of government.

That definition of government is not government to me, by my measure, offered to you, as that definition of government is what it is, even if I have found a way to avoid it, or even if I have not yet found a way to avoid it, it is what it is, and it has nothing to do with my POWER to define it.

YOU can define exactly what you mean by government in your way of perceiving government. If YOUR definition of government looks exactly like crime, then that is YOUR definition of government.

Voluntary associations are what they are because the volunteers do not lie, threaten, or aggressively injure innocent people for fun and profit, and that is the MONOPOLY POWER of government at work, where that POWER of government is called, in one word, LIBERTY.

The exclusive monopoly of force in LIBERTY is strictly defensive in every sense of the word, without having liars distort the actual facts in any case whatsoever.

If YOU continue to claim that the historical facts offered to you as evidence of a working Free Market Government working defensively, by those who defined it that way, between 1776 and 1788, as being my government solution, as if the actual history was not actual history, and as if it is a fabrication of my active imagination, then YOU continue to falsify, YOU continue to move the goal post that YOU have created with your forum topic.

"Voluntary governance, by definition, must be voluntary by all of the governed. If not, voluntarism does not exist, only partial voluntarism."

Here is the often repeated all or nothing claim. In actual fact there are people who willfully commit crimes even in places and times on Earth whereby crime is very risky, the pay rate is very low, and the potential victims are very powerful and very capable of defending themselves against harm.

There is no way, on Earth, in reality, whereby all human beings will always behave themselves, and no human beings will ever think about, and then act out, lies, threats, and aggressive violence upon the innocent, so such dreams of utopia are complete fabrications of an active imagination, or worse, they are willful distortions of reality so as to move the goal post once again.

If the study of how Voluntary Association worked, as it worked, during the time period of 1776 to 1788 is discarded by YOU, then the study can move to the time period after the introduction of Magna Carte with Trial by Jury based upon Sortition.

Here is an extensive study of how Voluntary Government worked to reduce the incidence of crime: to make crime pay less well.

http://www.barefootsworld.net/trial01.html

That is another example, and there are many more examples, of how Voluntary Associations can be governing methods of making crime unaffordable; which is the opposite of making crime legal.

If that is discarded too, and if YOU continue to claim that these historical records are my fabrications of my active imagination, then YOU make those choices.

"If universal voluntarism does not exist, then tyranny exists to some degree."

YOUR words are in a word stupid.

You may be very smart. YOUR words are stupid.

There is no such thing as universal voluntarism if by that fabrication of YOUR imagination is the same thing as Utopia, and therefore your claim of something not existing is like saying the following stupid words:

Here is something that does not exist, and so I am going to report that this thing that does not exist does not exist.

Then you go on to claim that there is this other thing that you now call tyranny and you claim that tyranny exists "to some degree" and that stupid claim is only slightly more meaningful compared to the stupid arrangement of words done earlier in the same sentence.

This sentence:

"If universal voluntarism does not exist, then tyranny exists to some degree."

Utopia does not exist, sure, who said it does?

Tyranny is what, exactly, according to you, as now you are in some way reporting something that has escaped notice?

You are now informing someone about something that someone does not know?

Wow, Joe says, or Paul says, or Henry says, wow, if only I would have known, and now I know, that "tyranny exists to some degree"!

I prefer to call tyrants criminals.

So I can understand your words to mean something to me.

Here are your words again:

"If universal voluntarism does not exist, then tyranny exists to some degree."

Here is the meaning I get from your words:

Utopia does not exist, of course not, who would claim such a thing?

That is unrelated to the fact that criminals perpetrate crime, and some of them have figured out how to fool their victims into thinking that crimes can be made legal.

"Find someone else to buy your nonsense. Any form of government will never be universally voluntary. QED"

I'm getting older, and less able to take crap from people who willfully lie, distort, twist, and injure people for fun and profit.

YOU published the topic. YOU now have dug yourself a hole, so YOU can decide what to stuff in the hole you dug.

I do not share your false viewpoints, they are false, there is no way I would even consider you to be a part of any voluntary association since your often resort to willful deception confesses your often resort to willful deceptions, even as you may claim otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=B3no...

That may help, against the current flow of disinformation.

Joe