Comment: The Granger was able to get people to think.

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The Granger was able to get people to think.

The Granger was able to get people to think. She posed a viewpoint completely different from the usual DP herd (yes, we have herd mentality here too at times), and as a result, often many DP people would get their panties in a twist over it. The Granger was not afraid to go against the grain here, and I always respected that, even if I didn't agree with the position, ex. Syria. Sometimes she made some points I do agree with, or came up with something that challenged my own opinion, like, the fact that the Syrian FSA rebels were originally Syrian military that disobeyed orders to fire on their own citizens. THAT one made me think, and challenged me on my previously held conclusions. That is a good thing folks. We need more of that here.

The Granger had stalkers. People who would follow her every post just to down-vote it immediately. Michael, you noted something to this effect in your post too, and I have posted on this as well before. It's stalking, and it's wrong.

I have at times gone against the grain here as well, but the difference between The Granger and I is she can take it, and then dish it right back out with equal or greater acrimony. I can't. I just don't have it in me to lash back out at people who post f'd up replies to something I said anymore. I try to just politely point it out because It literally feels like chest pains, and I just can't allow myself to get that worked up. It physically affects me, my sleep, my ability to concentrate at work, etc. Vomiting blood sucks!

Not everyone here is a Libertarian. I'm not, (I prefer Constitutionalist). The Granger isn't. There are Paleo-Conservatives, and Classical Liberals, as well as others. I believe that is a good thing. It makes this site more well rounded. (I don't like the word "diverse", because it means "to divide" and is usually used in the context of race.)

The bad part though is that increasingly, many DP'ers act belligerent to one another, attack, use snide remarks at fellow DP'ers with intent to inflame tensions, if a person says something that does not fall perfectly within their version of libertarian dogma, (I think this is more of an internet culture thing, than a DP thing). I say it's OK to have differing views. That should not spark some lashing scathing snide remarks. The Granger was no stranger to both the giving and receiving end of this. I have certainly done my share of bashing groups in my past posts, and I have tried to tone that down, and I remember there was one pro-occupy person I kept getting into it with. I tried hard to change my tone towards that person (can't remember name) but the individual was very disruptive, and eventually left, and I think that was for the better.

The question is, did The Granger become a disruptive influence? Or, was she constantly being cornered, attacked, eviscerated, and feeling trapped, and just reacting defensively to everyone bashing her? Maybe a little of both, I don't know. There are times I wanted to defend her, but I couldn't because I didn't agree with the position. Maybe I could have done more, I don't know. Defending The Granger is just asking to get freaking trounced on here, and if I don't agree with the position, then is it really worth the headache? Often she would make her own bed of nails.

We used to be about trying to reason with neocons and bring them closer to the ideas of liberty, a long time ago. The beatings we took from them at the conventions and in the MSM changed that, and I don't think we can go back. I accept as truth that we are in a state of cold civil war in America now. Many people say "Peace", and that is good, but I think we should prepare for things to get even uglier.

If the characterization that "Granger went back to being neocon" is true, then is that a failure on her part, or a failure on ours? I do not believe she was a paid shill for Israel. I don't think that's realistic given the amount of years invested here. Maybe we should ask ourselves, "Could I have reacted to her posts with more logic and reason instead of emotional arguments? If yes, could it have affected the outcome more favorably?" I know many tried, and I could see the frustration coming out in their posts. It's not easy. Ultimately people made enemies with each other. She's been gone a month and people still bash her in their posts. The fact that you created this thread Michael says a lot to the impact she had here. That's not something that can just be easily tossed aside.

After the end, The Granger said some awful things about us, You Michael, and the DP after she left. She was spot on regarding one criticism about us though - This whole "Israel" thing has gotten completely out of hand. Michael, you made a recent new rule that we shouldn't post about Israel if we aren't from there, lol! I hope it works, because if there is ever one issue or one topic that will effectively get this website slammed by neo-progressives and neocons as "racist, anti-semitic, blah blah" It's that single issue right there, and it is the one that made her go.

I respectfully implore my fellow DP'ers to stop it. It doesn't just make you look bad, it makes us look bad, because most other people who are not aligned with us will collectively view all DP'ers as anti-semitic racists when you spout this "Jews this, Jews that" crap. Please stop.

I really think that's what made The Granger go away. She said as much. The solution is within us - how do we choose to conduct ourselves going forward? Do we start to treat each other and other peoples with respect in our posts? Or do we continue bashing each other and other groups with snide remarks because someone said something you do not agree with? "Who cares? I'm just some anonymous screen name and I don't have to worry about someone showing up on my doorstep with a gun in my face if I intentionally try to inflame others for kicks." That seems to be the modus operandi of some, at times. Maybe if we treated each other better, people would not feel like they have no choice but to leave.

I think The Granger already said why she left. The things she said about us on some other website, (Redstate? unsure, but it's posted here on the DP somewhere) were horrible. Rather than look at her with hate and derision, I hope people can instead look within themselves to see what we can do different going forward, that will keep future people from leaving, and continue bringing new members!

I really love the Daily Paul, and if it ever got demonized It would affect me a lot. If it ever went away, it would be life changing for me, in a gut-wrenching kind of way.

That's my 2 cents Michael. I wouldn't worry too much about trying to get her to come back. If we do good job of getting our house in order, (It's your house, but we all have a part in keeping it clean), maybe she will want to come back, and who knows, maybe bring people with who are interested in the ideas of liberty too. Sorry for being long winded man. I been thinking about this a lot too.

[Wherever you go Granger, Peace be with you, but prepare for war. I hope you are on my side, cause you have much power. You get people to think and consider other positions. Like me (when I'm drinking), you lack tact at times though, hehehe :) Good luck!]