Comment: We must account for the whole bible and not merely read it.

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We must account for the whole bible and not merely read it.

Re:"You read the whole bible Then you MIGHT understand Romans. And what Faith and Works means. Faith is not a static word and is always identified by actions."

People only see the outward appearance, they look for works that would result from a faith, but saving faith comes into existence 'apart from works' as in Abraham's case, and God can see faith in their heart before any works begin.

1st Samuel 16:7 "But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart."

Websters 1828 dictionary defined faith this way:

"4. Evangelical, justifying, or saving faith, is the assent of the mind to the truth of divine revelation, on the authority of God's testimony, accompanied with a cordial assent of the will or approbation of the heart; an entire confidence or trust in God's character and declarations, and in the character and doctrines of Christ, with an unreserved surrender of the will to his guidance, and dependence on his merits for salvation. In other words, that firm belief of God's testimony, and of the truth of the gospel, which influences the will, and leads to an entire reliance on Christ for salvation."

Dependence on Christ's merits for salvation means that you don't depend on your own works, but rather you depend on Christ instead of yourself, as seen in the scripture I quoted in previous posts.

Re:"In other words if you say you have faith in "Jesus" but continue to worship Ishtar and Tammuz then your faith is no better than a non
believer. And that is what this is all about."

I've already said that a mere 'said faith' is not faith. I'm merely distinguishing faith from works as the Bible does, without embracing the concept of a 'said faith'. Perhaps you haven't considered the relation of faith and works beyond the distinction of a 'said faith' and a 'true faith', and are equipped only with that idea as a hammer so that anything you are unfamiliar with seems like a nail.

Re:"Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us,TO KNOW GOOD AND EVIL: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"

To know what good is, does not mean that one would choose it. It seems that delayed gratification is important, and if fallen humans can take the easy way out of something without gaining the benefits and growth of taking the proper route, they would choose the easy way, and would be stuck in an immature state having missed out on the proper progression. If the untrained kid finds the desert prematurely, they would spoil their dinner. That's what I see in that passage. It could be applied to anything; meals, pre-marital stuff, eating of the tree of life, etc.

Re:"Rom 2:14,15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do BY NATURE the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a LAW UNTO THEMSELVES: Which shew the work of the law written IN THEIR HEARTS, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)"

This comes one chapter before it says that there is none that do good. So whatever they do in accordance with the law is still not an acceptable work, as the scripture says that all of our righteousness is as filthy rags(see prior post). James 2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

Re:"So we see that man does know GOOD and EVIL and has power to do right and wrong."

He has the obligation to do right because his conscience bears witness to him, but the Bible is clear that there are none that actually do good. This passage shows that Gentiles will still be accountable for their sin even when they are unfamiliar with scripture. The law, and the conscience (which acts as a law) show us our sin and our need for salvation, but the law like a mirror only shows us the filth that is on us. Observing the law will (like a mirror) never make us clean. To get clean, we need Christ.

Galatians 3:24-25 "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."

Re:"Accusing me of being wrong does not make you right."

That phrase works both ways. The question is, how do you account for Romans 4, where works are explicitly excluded from salvation? I've already accounted for James 2, but you haven't accounted for any of the passages I've quoted which exclude works from salvation.