Comment: dreber, you are sooo off base its not even funny

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dreber, you are sooo off base its not even funny

This is the problem. People like you have no clue about the income tax.

I will tell you where you are not understanding. Im going to be very clear.

You are assuming the income tax is a direct unapportioned tax. NOT TRUE.
It's an indirect tax that YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE PAYING.

Here, instead of typing what I've already typed in the past on this site, Ill just copy and paste my posts from a while back... Enjoy


My Reposts: READ CAREFULLY... since most people DONT have a clue about the tax...


The IRS Cheifs know the truth, the Executive Branch knows the truth the Judicial Branch knows the truth and the Congressional branch also knows the truth about what the tax is and who it applies to under what circumstances!!!!!


It's right in the IRS Manual that you CAN NOT... never ever ever ever USE THE IRS Publications and Pamphlets to, in their own words, "sustain a position"., which anyone can access online at WWW.IRS.GOV (here's the link to the exact page on their site: and go down to section entitled publications and read it for yourself)

Which means the IRS publications and Pamphlets ARE NOT THE LAW. They NEVER HAVE BEEN THE LAW! Because they aren't the law!! The are like little newsletters posted by the IRS to the "tax professional community" that then those "professionals" accept as the word of God, except they are "NOT TO BE USED TO SUSTAIN A POSITION" and the "professionals" ARE NOT AWARE OF THAT!!! Most professionals don't even read the law to determine squat about the tax or the nature of the tax. They start off from the beginning with the myth that everyone just owes the tax.

Here's an example. The IRS says that "tax protestors" claim wages are not taxable. That can be true or false, depending on how you understand the law.

For instance, Wages, as defined under section 3401(a): (This is the actual statutory definition, ready.... here we go.... )

(a) Wages
For purposes of this chapter, the term “wages” means all remuneration (other than fees paid to a public official) for services performed by an employee for his employer, including the cash value of all remuneration (including benefits) paid in any medium other than cash; except that such term shall not include remuneration paid—

++++ (Note: (other than fees paid to a public official) is correct because fees belong to the government, not the "employee" receiving "wages"... that's why they are called fees.

++++ (NOTICE the use of the word means... where it says "wages" means. Now watch, here's the definition of "employee" for purposes of Employment taxes... same general section except it's 3401(c)...READY!!! Here we go

Section 3401(c) Definition of Employee:

(c) Employee
For purposes of this chapter, the term “employee” includes an officer, employee, or elected official of the United States, a State, or any political subdivision thereof, or the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of any one or more of the foregoing. The term “employee” also includes an officer of a corporation.

++++ (Note: This definition enumerates federally related workers. And that last line, The term “employee” also includes an officer of a corporation., is referring to federally related corporations. Like a Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, etc..) And that would make sense since congress DOES have the authority to legislate on it's OWN "EMPLOYEES"!!!! Where do any private sector people fit into that definition and also where can u make the jump from federally related subjects to private sector from that definition????

++++ (NOTICE the use of the word INCLUDES... which has an entirely different meaning than the word means. The word includes and including are defined under section 7701(c)... and here's that DEFINITION: READY AGAIN.....

(c) Includes and including
The terms “includes” and “including” when used in a definition contained in this title shall not be deemed to exclude other things otherwise within the meaning of the term defined.


For example. If congress defined the word "Food" for a certain section wherever and the definition said, "Food: For purposes of this chapter the term food includes apples, pears, oranges"

What that then means since it would use the word Includes is that I cannot exclude like minded things. So I can't exclude strawberries, apples, peaches, pears, papayas, mangos, etc... because they are of the same general class of what has been defined which are "Fruits". But I can't include eggs, milk, bread, etc... because even though those items are food for how WE WOULD refer to them in private conversation, that's NOT what the law is referring to!!!!! Get it yet???!!!

But to be making STATUTORY "WAGES", as defined, you would first have to meet the requirements of the definition of "Employee" under section 3401(c). Its a word game.

So technically, you are most likely NOT AN "EMPLOYEE" as defined by law earning "WAGES" as defined. Because for you to be earning "Wages" as defined you MUST MUST MUST MUST MUST... did i say that enough, MEET THE STATUTORY requirement of the definition of "EMPLOYEE".

Congress can define words to mean whatever they want them to mean. So they can take a word YOU and I are familiar with and use in private conversation to describe getting paid, like the word "WAGES" and REDEFINE it for purposes of the law.

Now, once Congress has provided it's own definition, OUR PRIVATE CONVENTIONAL definition NO LONGER APPLIES!

So when the IRS says "Wages" are taxable, technically yes, Statutory "WAGES" as defined by the code are... BUT HERE's the catch, Statutory "Wages" is NOT the same thing as Wages as you get paid in the private sector. But when an IRS publication mentions "WAGES", it's talking about the staturoy definition, not the conventional definition.

Here's what the court said:

"When a statute includes an explicit definition, we must follow that definition, even if it varies from that term's ordinary meaning. Meese v. Keene, 481 U. S. 465, 484-485 (1987) ("It is axiomatic that the statutory definition of the term excludes unstated meanings of that term");"

So, when we encounter a word, that you and I are familiar with, BUT, it has a definition that strays from the "ordinary meaning", we are to use the definition in place of the traditionally defined word!


So, im not saying that the "Beast" will just leave us alone because there is some magic silver bullet argument, that's NOT what Im saying at all. All im pointing out is what the law says and why it says what it says.

Income tax is an Excise. The law clearly shows the application to be in the nature of an excise. Not that congress didn't want to include you and I and the entire private sector world as those who are required to pay the tax on our own domestic source monies, it's that they DID NOT HAVE THE POWER or Authority to write such a requirement into the law because, get this, .... IT WENT BEYOND THE CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY OF TAXATION THE CONGRESS WAS DELEGATED UNDER THE CONSTITUTION. And if challenged at that point containing that language, which to this date is NOT there, THEN, THEN YOU COULD challenge the Income Tax as unconstitutional. But as long as you continue to sign W4's and W9's, neither of which have anything to do with the average guy in the private sector earning his/her own domestic source monies, then the IRS is going to ACCEPT your STATEMENT under Penalty of Perjury that YOU ARE REQUIRED TO PAY THE TAX!!!! The IRS does NOT have to prove that you were NOT the person who was to sign such a form, ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS PROVE YOU DID!! AND THE SIGNING OF THOSE FORMS ARE THE STARTING POINT FOR OWING THE TAX! IT'S THE STARTING POINT FOR THE REPORTING PROCESS AND THE LIKE! STOP SIGNING THOSE FORMS!!!

NOW DO U GET IT???? !!!!

Hope this helps.


Here's another one of my posts in response to the top one...


What need is there to go to court if....If I am NOT signing W4's or W9's, and starting the whole reporting process.

The "Income Tax" has NOTHING to do with me. So, therefore, when someone ASKS me to sign a form as mentioned before, I DO NOT! Those forms do have purposes and serve a purpose for the tax, but HAVE NOTHING to do with the average guy living and working in the private sector earning his/her own domestic source monies.

I know i know, everyone tells me, "But if I don't sign the form, I can't get paid..." Well so be it... I do...

The point I'm making to you is that MOST EVERYONE who gets prosecuted starts their OWN prosecution by starting the reporting process by SIGNING THOSE DASTARDLY FORMS that have NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM because some MORON somewhere said they were required to even though that MORON NEVER READ 1 WORD of the Law to determine that to be the case. The IRS does NOT have to prove you were NOT the person required to sign that form.... No no no, all they have to do is PROVE THAT U DID... and if there is reporting with YOUR identifier on that reporting that goes back to the IRS, then YOU ARE the one who started that process....

So, when somebody goes and DOESN'T pay a tax, that they themselves have reported as taxable, then yes, you are going to get prosecuted.

It works like this.

A W2 or 1099 is issued at the end of the year to said "taxpayer". That reporting goes also to the IRS where a log of the reporting is noted in the ACS (Automatic Computer System) where it then awaits a tax return. If you do NOT file when you DO have this reporting, which for MOST AMERICANS IS ERRONEOUS reporting, then the computer system will kick some automatic letters out to the "taxpayer" asking where their tax return is for the year "such and such". If you STILL disregard those letters, then the ACS kicks it up to a REAL PERSON that then sends even MORE letters to get you to pay based on THE REPORTING THAT YOU APPROVED. If you STILL DON'T FILE, then you are screwed, because now they will escalate that reporting to a LEVY.

Here is the Levy Section from the Statutes: READY???!!

Sec 6331

(a) Authority of Secretary
If any person liable to pay any tax neglects or refuses to pay the same within 10 days after notice and demand, it shall be lawful for the Secretary to collect such tax (and such further sum as shall be sufficient to cover the expenses of the levy) by levy upon all property and rights to property (except such property as is exempt under section 6334) belonging to such person or on which there is a lien provided in this chapter for the payment of such tax. Levy may be made upon the accrued salary or wages of any officer, employee, or elected official, of the United States, the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of the United States or the District of Columbia, by serving a notice of levy on the employer (as defined in section 3401(d)) of such officer, employee, or elected official. If the Secretary makes a finding that the collection of such tax is in jeopardy, notice and demand for immediate payment of such tax may be made by the Secretary and, upon failure or refusal to pay such tax, collection thereof by levy shall be lawful without regard to the 10-day period provided in this section.

WOW... NOTICE THE SECTION I BOLDED... IT IS PRACTICALLY IDENTICAL to the definition of "Employee" under section 3401(c). And that second half of that paragraph IS WHAT and WHOM the Secretary has the Authority to levy upon!!!

And what's that definition for reminders sake of "Employee"??? Here it is....

For purposes of this chapter, the term “employee” includes an officer, employee, or elected official of the United States, a State, or any political subdivision thereof, or the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of any one or more of the foregoing. The term “employee” also includes an officer of a corporation.

Do you think that people say at a bank, when they get that Levy form, actually READ the LAW PERTAINING to levy authority???? Of course NOT!!!

It's all connected. You have to actually read the law to see what it requires and NOT just live a life of ignorance because of FEAR of what somebody MAY or MAY NOT do to you.

Truth can be hard to come by, but when people do, THEY DON'T SEEM TO WANT TO DO ANYTHING with the TRUTHFUL knowledge they have been given!!!

Go read Dave Champion's Book "Income Tax: Shattering the Myths"....


Love Liberty, be Vigilant

"Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty" (2 Corinthians 3:17)

Faith in God will prevail all things!