CNN Larry King: Ron Paul vs. Michael Moore
Submitted by legalizeliberty on Fri, 10/30/2009 - 20:36
Dr. Paul will be on CNN's Larry King Show tonight at 9:27 pm ET to respond to Michael Moore's interview and attack on capitalism in the shows first half. Should be terrific!
For those without TV, watch it live online here: www.blinkotv.com
Help me out!!!!
Hi DPers! I am a high school student who needs some help. I am currently enrolled in a civics class and need some help refuting some of the assertions my teacher is making.
Every week, we watch a show, such as [I]This Week[/I], and then journal about it. Recently, I wrote about the healthcare conundrum, and how only the market offers viable solutions. Essentially, I was arguing that you can't solve too much intervention with more intervention! Ultimately, I was advocating a return to the medical system of fifty years ago.
Here is her response:
"Very good!
By the way, I COMPLETELY disagree with your last paragraph. Not that rates would not go down, as you assert, but that a completely free market health system would endanger our country.
Just a few things to consider:
No government intervention means that there are no rules that say hospitals have to treat patients if their lives are in danger. Gunshot wound? No insurance? Take that person outside and put them on the sidewalk.
No government intervention means no health care for young children living in poverty. No vaccinations - mass health crisis in US from spread of polio.
No government intervention means "death panels," as conservatives assert. Poor elderly people who can't work and can't afford health insurance die from lack of treatment / medication.
No government intervention means MUCH higher costs as doctors' malpractice insurance rates skyrocket from massive lawsuits that have no caps (as many states now have) on the amount awarded.
No government intervention means that to avoid a flu pandemic, then the shots go to the highest bidder. $1000 a shot if there's a shortage - like now - would not protect the nation from massive flu deaths and externalities associated with having to deal with this.
You ride your bike without a helmet? No insurance for you! (Or they would just reject any hospital / doctor bills that would come from your negligence in protecting yourself.)
See what I mean?"
Help me with a response!!
Curran
Junior in HS
Grand Rapids, MI
Curran
Junior in HS
Grand Rapids, MI
Think about it...
Who chooses to go into medicine? People who want to help other people, right? Because if it was just for the paycheck, they could do other jobs that aren't so messy.
Think about how much truer this would be if hospitals didn't need so many people to do government-mandated paperwork, deal with government-mandated regulations, deal with out-of-control malpractice issues, and trying to figure out what's the best way to stay out of government trouble.
Are they going to put people out on the sidewalk? They never did before, why would they if we went back to freedom? Now, they're effectively turning people away because there is no room.
Dr. Paul's bill to allow sale and purchase of insurance for surgical mistakes would take care of malpractice costs. Consumers could buy their own, and skip the legal fees.
The 'flu shot may be killing more people than it saves. And polio can't become an epidemic if most people are vaccinated. More people would give to charity if they thought they weren't already paying through taxes.
Insurance? You could always buy insurance. The free market makes it available. Imagine what would happen if instead of one policy that's the same for everyone, you could get a discount for wearing a helmet, or not smoking. Some insurance companies give a free helmet replacement if yours is broken while it's on your head. This has nothing to do with government mandates, and they'd be even more creative at trying to get more customers while keeping costs down (i.e., keeping customers healthy), if the government got out of the insurance business and allowed insurance companies to compete on a level playing field.
If I had had a healthcare savings account starting when I was your age, I would now have so much money saved, I wouldn't need Medicare.
IMissLiberty
IMissLiberty
I reposted this with the audio and video synced
the best I could: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pBXuQoUfmk
_________________________________________________
A recent history of the US economy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzze9xCPuok
That was a great interview!
That was a great interview!
GREAT QUOTE
"I don't think he's (Michael Moore) quite willing to critize Obama like he critized Bush but, I am!"
Great as usual Ron.
The interview Michael Moore gave
on Australian television was praising Obama up to high heavens, he is the man in MM's eyes.. no criticism of the man... listening to that interview made me puke!! It's all Bush's fault.
The far left is very afraid
Nader is being censored BIG TIME, I feel bad for those who support Nader that didn't have the ability to look beyond the GOP lable to find the rEVOLution. There's no more protests, no more movies, there was one letter to the editor, an article in this week's newspaper from the Obama coordinator in this area.. reminding everyone what to do... write to Obama about this, do this and that for Obama.. I think Moore's movie was a wash because people are afraid that they are going to be put on a list for going to the theatre..
Michael Moore is a leader on the left and he's showing them, it's ok to make a mistake, just be honest, which he is being, and don't say anything bad about Obama, because YOU KNOW, Bush screwed us, and Obama has not changed Bush's laws.
They ask .. where was Ron Paul during Bush's terms? WTF? And they are not wrong for that. Where was Ron Paul? Eating lunch by himself.
Whatever. Ron Paul is here and we need more Ron Pauls not Mochael Moores.
I liked that!
"Doing nothing is almost always an option and is very often the best option." Daniel Hannan
"Doing nothing is almost always an option and is very often the best option." Daniel Hannan
I loved it but boy some people still dont get it. look at the
reaction over on the left. i always check out what the sheeple over there say. . I have tried reason over there but it didnt work.Feel free to change some minds over there. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=... 1). The generosity of Ron's faith is underwhelming.He's happy to take from someone else to get a paychec...
Edited on Fri Oct-30-09 04:46 AM by ProgressOnTheMove
These woolly mammoth elephants are just as hypocritical as it can get. An ordinary elephant doesn't cut it, they need something more prehistoric to describe their party. He's totally wrong pure capitalism restricts peoples freedom, the freedom to drink clean water and air, eat good food and live healthily. Sure, the likes of R. Paul is getting the fruits what would he care but without limitations it can destroy everyone else. Ron Paul must be living in another world not to know people are suffering from his ideology on government. The only thing he's rational on is the war after that it falls apart. 2)Saw some of this but
had to turn it off.
What a damn fool. He said he was a doctor and he is so ill informed about the state of healthcare in this country it is pitiful. It was like he was talking from an imaginary past.
Why does anyone think anything of this guy? He only knows how to value things by their monetary value.
Wonder
if they will still make this kind of comments when the dollar finally crashes and all their lovely government programs go into the toilet.
"Doing nothing is almost always an option and is very often the best option." Daniel Hannan
"Doing nothing is almost always an option and is very often the best option." Daniel Hannan
So close, but yet so far
Both of these guys agree on lots of things, but they refuse to join forces EVEN THOUGH BOTH AGREE THAT THE US IS GOING DOWN QUICKLY.
It is idiotic...and more to the point, it is unbelievable. The more I see people that are supposed to be diametrically opposed say similar things, the more I know that they are full of it.
Ron Paul still maintains lots of credibility due to his voting actions; however, he can't say 'the sky is falling' in one sentence and in the next talk about adhering to principles to the point that we can't work together with similiar belief systems.
The whole notion of capitalism-only, total free market, no income tax, and so on are never fully explained. Paul always goes from wonderful statements to silly debate tactics "You are either 100% pregnant or 0% pregnant". That is avoiding...and frankly confusing. In fact, all of the fancy Mises/Austria economic theories are confusing. I have a high IQ, degrees in business, etc. and I still don't know exactly what he is talking about.
We damn sure better start an education campaign to explain some of the things that Ron Paul says or else people won't get it and thus, vote for someone with a nifty slogan.
Time and again, I've heard GOPers say that Ron Paul simply doesn't have the charisma to win a presidential campaign. I don't believe it, but I do believe that he has a big gap in his message...that gap is 'wtf is he talking about'.
So calling all video makers, make some videos explaining these things.
Something thorough and simple like the zeitgeist movie. Also like the recent Life Inc video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOBWhVe68os
They gain your trust with some truth, then they screw you with that trust.
Quote:
"It is idiotic...and more to the point, it is unbelievable. The more I see people that are supposed to be diametrically opposed say similar things, the more I know that they are full of it."
Welcome to controlled opposition :-)
Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Per
MY PRESIDENT HAS SPOKEN!
And the wisdom was thick this time!
Pawnstorm
Like the ninja, our hero appraches his prey with stealth
then in mercy gently lays him down on the sidewalk and tells him "shh...dont speak".
Ron Paul was very polite about dismantling Mr Moore- to the point even where Larry King suggests the difference may just be a case of semantics. Dr Paul can cure that too apparently. Nice interview.
This was really, really
This was really, really good. And I bet a lot of MM supporters were tuned in as well, getting a nice and well argued earful about how "their man" is not yet willing to recognize his new hero Obama is very little different in the areas many of them care about than Bush. Hopefully some take the next logical step and realize RP's is the platform best able to achieve their goal, not socialistic posturing MM style.
Once again Youtube and google
have purposefully thrown the audio out of sync with the video on an important issue.
It's getting F&*KING ANNOYING. They know many people will stop watching because of that.
I wish health freedom was a public option
bump
Our Language is what's Arguable
I can't convey how much I admire Ron Paul, my analysis of everyhthing he says is based on intuition (which is "listenting" with full feeling and reasoning balanced) and on soundness of economic theory.
There is only a couple of areas I'd like to see RP change -- his heart is pure and is logic is perfect; it's in regard to language.
We must (ALL) stop trying to HIJACK the word "Capitalism" -- It's Marx's word and it was used to describe the wealthy-and-powerful (how they opperated) during his era.
Capitalism means Economic-Fuedalism
---Further Marx said if we do not transition into a worker-sovereignty we'd move into Economic-Fascism; what RP calls Corporatism.
---Marx was wrong in thinking worker-sovereignty was the answer; but he was 100% right that owner-sovereignty is not right either.
Here is the "hijacking" language
Crony-Capitalism -- Economic-Fascism or as RP calls it Corporatism
----Capitalism by Marx's definition is "cronied" and that it moves from Crony-Fuedalism to Crony-Fascism -AND- Marx is historically correct.
Free-Market Capitalism
Anarcho-Capitalism
....and the list goes on and on.
Capitalism is a Negative; why oh why do we need to "force it" into "goodness," when it was created to describe a negative we are against.
Imagine the time we would have saved if we would have stopped fighting the Marxist.
The Mises Institute was hijacked by the Rothbardian Anarcho-Capitalist -- because Mises was part of the generation that tried to hijack the word capitalism.
However, Mises preferred Consumer-Sovereignty which can only be had by a transition through Consumer-Minarchism.
Voluntary-Propertarianism (that Rothbard proposes) is an Owners-Rights (which includes property as part of Self) Society.
If we were to zap into such a society (Rothbard does not advocate strongly for a transition) "somehow" on day two we'd be marching slowly back toward Crony-Fuedalism and Crony-Fascism (what we have today).
If we follow Mises argument (continue to perfect it) we move toward ever-greater levels of Liberty -- un-dreamed of possibilities (to quote Yogananda).
Octobox
Mises on Profit/Loss
your understanding of those
your understanding of those words, includes traditional, political, and historical meanings.
much of which, is unintelligible to most people.
but it doesn't really matter. whatever word replaced "capitalism", would quickly be revered on the right, and reviled on the left.
some of us here on the DP enjoy the language intricacies and nuances that you dip into.
but those nuances and distinctions do not capture the hearts of the sheep.
plain language does.
later the minds of those captured hearts, after learning some of the basics, can appreciate historic meaning of the word "capitalism", that you succinctly refer to.
Nader was saying corporatism before Ron Paul
When I heard Ron Paul say that "capitalism" is a misnomer because corpratism is what we have.. 1996, Ralph Nader said the same thing.. Arrianna Huffington wrote a book... Pigs at the trough
You bet everyone on the left like Ralph Nader are looking at Ron Paul like WTF, where where you? Oh that's right... "While you were OUT of congress..."
Corporatism is a great word we should use more because the left understands better than the republicans, especially those who don't like Ron Paul.
dfwrider: You are of course correct
.......the "sheep" (who are easily turned) want simiplicity and albeit un-wittingly perpetual war (voting and lobbying).
However, they are also asking for freedom.
In understanding freedom language is very important because of the ideas they spread.
Over every revolution the "liberty model" put forward was either worker-sovereignty (peasantry) or owner-sovereignty (fuedal lords - nobles - merchants) -- It's a circular loop.
Once -- Just Once in human history it would be nice to get off this wheel.
To do that people need to understand Mises and dump Rothbard and Marx (and all subtle variations thereof).
RP's Consumer-Minarchism into Mises Consumer-Individualism.
However, RP can't get us there; because he is an educator.
Freedom can't be had by lobbying and voting.
The ONLY way to get into liberty is the same way we maintain it.
Consumer-Counter-Economics
Octobox
Mises on Profit/Loss
You make
a very good argument here!
"Doing nothing is almost always an option and is very often the best option." Daniel Hannan
"Doing nothing is almost always an option and is very often the best option." Daniel Hannan
Classic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi1nxu-Sy-w
"Doing nothing is almost always an option and is very often the best option." Daniel Hannan
"Doing nothing is almost always an option and is very often the best option." Daniel Hannan
Just sent a Thank you
to Larry King with a nice letter.
Do it!!
MM, Arianna and other leftist media types
are not stupid, and they know Dr. Paul is right on these issues. However, their base (i.e. those keeping them filthy rich) are complete sheeple in every sense of the word. They simply cannot come out and openly agree with the good doctor about limited government.
These guys know It's much better for business to blame the evil corporations for all our problems. The small-minded socialists who follow them eat this stuff up. If you've ever read comments on the Huff Post you know exactly what I mean.
I disagree about Huffington and other Dems...
...and you can throw Repubs, Independents and Greens as well as any other party or group that people clump masses together in. Just because people are thrown into one category or another doesn't mean their intentions are bad.
Many people that have money, including Bill Maher, who was supporting Dr. Paul on his show, are willing to give more and they have said they would give more because they have it. The dilemma is Dr. Paul doesn't want what they are willing to give to be "taken" from them by the Govt. Instead it would be accepted as donation or charity.
The real problem is that people don't give unless it's taken. Not many people with money want to be more charitable and at tax time they hire accountants to protect their money. If the tax structure were easier to understand they may be willing to give more.
I don't understand why people, in the digital millennium, can't just pick what they want to give their tax dollars to.
Why not put boxes on tax forms spelling out Box A is for Military, Box B is for Health Care, Box C is for Infrastructure, Box D is for Education, etc. A little snippet at the bottom can say "If you are willing to give some more, $100 would help a child get textbooks or help a single mom get food for her kid" that way people understand how they can give. Instead we have a request for Presidential donations. Give me a break! I think the last President that actually tried to do things right was Carter and he's been ridiculed about sound monetary policy from Dems and Repubs.
Government doesn't know what to do with money other than throw it away so we should have more direct control over where our own tax dollars are spent.
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.
-Professor Bernardo de la Paz, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
Robert A. Heinlein
There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.
-Professor Bernardo de la Paz, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
Robert A. Heinlein
I wonder why
I wonder why they had him respond to video clips instead of having them go head to head...may be CNN zombies didn't want to see MM get beat up by RP ruthless?
r3VOLution Continues...
I think MM stipulated that
It's very hard to go against Ron Paul head to head, MM is so out-classed I'm sure he wouldn't agree to a live debate/discussion. He is a manipulator that is very dishonest so the ploy of responding to video clips fits his MO to a tee.
Socialists are Everywhere
Socialists are Everywhere
Please send a "Thank You" to
Please send a "Thank You" to The Larry King Show at the following email address for having Dr. Paul on. The more positive mail they get the better:
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5.lkl.comment.html?75
Marilyn in Lake Jackson
done..
thx for the comment and link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO18F4aKGzQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO18F4aKGzQ
your right
I did, thanks
1/2 price gas? http://www.GetYourGas.com
MM is a socialist
MM is a hypocrite and a socialist. He open says he's for the redistribution of wealth, he's anti-2nd Amendment, and he's anti-capitalism. He makes money attacking capitalism while at the same time making millions from the system. Also, some years back, one of the members of his security team was arrested for having an unlicensed firearms where he should not have. So to MM, capitalism if bad as are firearms but he can make money off of the system and hire security personnel with firearms but those same firearms should not be in the hands of you and I.
So MM can go pound sand.
______
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
Leave the hate to the neo
Leave the hate to the neo cons people. Who cares if MM is fat, so are many RP supporters. Be civil.
Good interview although I wish RP would spell out what he means when it comes to government involvement. Although I know what he is talking about other viewers who arent familiar with RP are not and they are being told by everyone else that government needs to be the solution. Ron Paul needs to educate when he goes on these interviews so we can bring in more people to the cause.
Well hell
They barely give him time to say what little bit he gets to say now. Notice how many times he gets interrupted when he is giving an interview. He would have to have a whole show dedicated to him to even scratch the surface let alone a two to eight minute interview
As I read
these posts below mine....I could have just predicted what sort of comments would come from those of you here at the dailypaul. All the snide remarks about Michael Moore and calling him a fat slob etc etc etc......that's very Ron Paulian of you. Sounds like something Ron Paul would say. Michael Moore at leasts gets people discussing the issues whether you agree with him or not. I've never heard MM say one bad thing about Ron Paul and vice versa.....they both have similar views but view them a bit differently...and probably if Dr Paul had an hour or so privately with MM ....MM would come away with a better understanding. MM hates war, hates violence, hates things that are corrupt. Doesn't mean he's right or wrong about his views. He's certainly not a war mongerer and goes out of his way to fight for those that can't fight for themselves and I will always defend someone with those sorts of intentions no matter if i agree with them philosophicaly or not. By the way....MM agrees with you....he's a fat slob and he's admitted it and it bothers him to the core. Ron Paul doesn't need defending here at the DailyPaul....that's why you're hearing me defend MM. I appreciate both of them.
baubaublacksheep
Michael Moore and Ron Paul
are diametrically opposed in political philosophy.
Their positions aren't even remotely similar, although you seem to think they are.
Michael Moore is a socialist/communist seeking total gov't domination over every single aspect of everyone's life.
How you could say that is "similar to Ron Paul", I have absolutely no idea.
Oh, and MM "fights for those who can't fight for themselves", eh.
How? By promoting more gov't theft of others' incomes, to redistribute to those who he sees fit?
Well,of course! That's what socialist/communists do.
MM, is a sad and pathetic joke.
MM needs defending?
LOL.. you can defend him all you like, he does a good job in destroying your carefully put together defense faster than you can put your defense together.
He was interviewed here on Australian television last night and good heavens, I couldn't help but think of a bit of advice before he goes public: GET EDUCATED. The interview would have left viewers wondering what he was on about.. it didn't make any sense and I actually wondered if he was overwhelmed with the in depth questions he was asked by the reporter.
After waffling on for some time, (sorry .. it was waffling!) he was asked what he (MM) would see as the solution to the problems. His answer was: I don't know, should I know?. I make films, that is my job, that's what I do.
As I said, defend all you want, he destroys it in less than 15 minutes with the worst drivel ever.
BTW.. your comment : Sounds like something Ron Paul would say. That to me sounds offensive. Have you one, ONE example of Dr Paul ever speak badly about anyone?
Unlike MM who didn't even hesitate to use the four letter word in the interview and a few other terms.. viewers were warned that the language could offend some viewers. Charming aye.
"calling him a fat slob etc
"calling him a fat slob etc etc etc......that's very Ron Paulian of you. Sounds like something Ron Paul would say."
With all due respect, Moore is a fat slob, there is no getting around it. It's 100% true. I'm not using it as a personal attack to make him feel bad about himself, I'm simply stating a fact relevant to the question that followed. Who in their rite mind would be taking advice on health care from a human so far removed from anything resembling healthy? It's a legitimate observation and question.
As for the second part of your question, I do not take word for word speaking instructions from any human being, I am my own person, Ron Paul is welcome to his own personal opinion about that, and I believe he feels the same way, for the very same reason I do.
On the other hand, if Moore was a healthy human being, I would have no problem whatsoever taking him seriously on the health care debate, however, he's not, and that remains to be seen.
As to the point about war, my only question is why this man is suddenly a talking head about the matter on a national platform. I'm simply curious what credentials he brings to the table that warrants his repeat visits on the MSM to the entire nation.
It's starting to feel like the MS *MEDIA* is focused on nothing more then points of view from media insiders. When's the last time you went one hour watching the news where a guest hasn't been on promoting a new book, or the like?
The point is I don't believe for a second Moor was there last night because ANYONE thinks he has good idea's and solutions for health reform. I also don't believe for a second Moor was there last night because ANYONE thinks we should be taking advice from him on foreign policy. Why was he there? I do not know, I am absolutely certain though it wasn't for the previously mentioned.
I agree with this post Sternzy
And I find your post below this, the best post on the thread.
Hey now....
Excellent interview. Dr. paul was on point for this one, well done.
I was a little perturbed at Larry king's snide demeanor. On the other hand I was happy to see that both sides got a chance to express their point of view without the usual 1on1 in your face arguing we are seeing more and more of, that eventually leads me to tune it all out.
I'm curious, what warrants Moore's commentary on politics? I mean really....does anyone care what that fat slobs opinion is about health care? (crickets...) I didn't think so. How about the war overseas? I understand he has a rite to an opinion just like the next guy, but what credentials does this man have on the subject that would warrant any more then perhaps a single interview on national news? Does Michele Moore have some massive following I have missed or something? I don't get it. The guy put together a few very amateur extremely biased documentary's that made him a millionaire. Something I'm missing, anything else I don't know about?
To answer your MM question
Moore's movies show things that MSM does not show the public.
In Bowling for Columbine, we all saw how frail Charleton Heston was, and Moore actually took the heat off guns and put it on Ammo.. The Chris Rock part made Chris Rock a star.
Farenheit 911, exposes the security the government gives to the Saudis, and how Congressional Black Caucus only needing one signature from a senator to stop the SCOTUS selection of Bush, petitions to VP Al Gore, who is rejecting them.. and you witness Gore throw this opportunity, he as VP does not employ the check and balance of govt, so the Democrats have no one to blame for Bush being president but themselves.
In Sicko, we get to see Camp Gitmo, which might as well be a club med. These guys have it made. But that's not what MSM showed.
Rodger and Me, Moores first big hit, was like Gonzo CEO paparazzi cinema. Moore showed an "Us Vs Them", with the CEO who comes, uses people, and leaves with the money as the enemy. It was a hit because when it came out, many companies were closing and moving to Mexico and China.
living with war............
America has over 700 military bases in 137 countries around the world....and now you know why we have no more money for anything else. Is anyone else sick of living with war being a permanent part of our culture?
http://electricheadroom.blogspot.com/
Well said Ron!!!
Well said. I asked my gf today why dont the people get what Dr. Paul has been saying for so long? I asked her "am I out there on the fringe for agreeing with Ron Paul?" I am beginning to question myself, maybe I am a bit out there now lol. I am a Ron Paul Republican. It seems so obvious what course this Nation should go ------------ Ron Paul's course, but nobody is listening. The good Doctor started the tea party movement and now this stupid tea party express has taken it over. I sent money into Rand's campaign and will participate in the next money bomb when one is scheduled.
HOME RUN! Ron Paul deftly
HOME RUN!
Ron Paul deftly guided his answers in the right direction and told amercain CNN zombies what those of us here already know.. will it catch on?
“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato
“One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors.” Plato
link to better video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hn6ad4_FzM
Wow, that Ron Paul Dude is kind of a big deal.....
and Michael Moore is just big.
Cheers to the Doc.
ahaha :D
ahaha :D
Good Job Dr. Paul
Ron Paul is right as always. Whenever I see him in an interview or debate, his opposition usually is dumbfounded with little to no rebuttal. Ron Paul is awesome and we need to start working on his campaign for 2012.
Tis the best way to argue, I agree.
Though some might disagree, as it hinders back-and-forth.
DP☁←? | ◯
Then some people
...need to come better prepared. ;)
For liberty!! *gong*
For liberty!! *gong*