What If Every Church Had Been A Peace Church?

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It may change your mind about a few things in the church. And why the really violent "church" is catholicism

For the sake of full disclosure, I am a Christian... though what I am about to say would probably telegraph that anyway.

Christian teaching (speaking here of New Testament scripture) does not, as a matter of a pure doctrinal prohibition, outright condemn all violence in all circumstances. As I remember, Dr. Paul himself (in one of the Presidential Debates) brought up the historical Christian teaching of "Just War" and how we have lost our understanding of it. And that is true. It irritates me to no end when my fellow Christians defend the Iraq War as a noble venture... in Christian terms, it is nothing of the kind!!!
As for Just War theory, this philosophy is not expressed directly in the New Testament, but the actual expression of just war is not contra Biblical teaching. We can take note of how Soldiers who converted (there are several mentioned in the Bible) were never told to lay down their arms and become pure pacifist. In regard to their vocation they were simply commanded not to oppress the people they policed, extort money and to be satisfied with their pay. I should also make note that the soldiers in question were not at the time engaged in any offensive campaign but were generally garrisoned troops, preserving civil order and enforcing Roman law in conquered territories.

There are just reasons to fight. However, in spite of all claims to the contrary, none of them apply to our current situation. And my Christian brothers and sisters are, in my opinion, bowing down to an idol wrapped in red, white and blue bunting. God will not tolerate such hypocrisy forever. Sorry for the religious rant, but you've touched on a subject near and dear to me. I have been contending with Christians for years over this. They are beginning to see the light. May God have mercy.

Awesome post LB.
Beautiful stuff.

Were the Unitarians.
They seem to be the most accepting and tolerant.
Many of the members were Christians. But there were some Buddhists, some atheists, some pagans, etc..

But even there, they had some problems with the various beliefs trying to rise above the others. You would still hear people of one belief, making the occasional snide remark about the "others".
In a way they remind me of some of the struggles we have at the DP.
We still have issues here with the "flavor" of Liberty that should be pursued.
Liberty has only ONE flavor.

Saying that, another thing I noticed about The Unitarians, is that they are STRONGLY anti-war. I think we should pursue the Unitarian Universalists.
If I ever joined a group of spiritual people, it would be them.

Did I mention that they have MONEY?

have been lost. The establishment owns their minds. They are no help to us. Most of my conservative christian friends would support nuking every muslim country on the planet if a NeoCon suggested it. There ain'tno money in peace...so let's do war and do it in the name of Jesus! Yipee!

Jesus also taught that he did not come to bring peace , but a sword ..Of course one needs to understand the meaning of his words....His words are sharper than a two edged sword..A convert is not welcome in their own home.
trust is earned.

was sitting in church today ... a wonderful love thy neighbor teaching etc..
I was thinking all day ... what if all Christians and others who embrace the peace and love teachings .... would carry that over to foreign policy -
the just war idea etc....
"What If" a wise congressman once said.

Thank you again, my dear _Belle!

This is so near and dear to my heart: the role that true faith in Christ, as best as I understand it after years of serious study, compels ALL true adherents towards only one course of action, i.e. THE remedy: peace!

This is a polar-opposite of the fun-house mirror distortion of faith in Christ, (and his apostles), i.e. that war must be supported in almost all US government actions as a "just" cause, if the christian faith is to survive. That is sooo far afield of biblically-defined Christianity that I can't shout against it loud enough!!!

Moses in the Torah taught us in the church today to believe concerning Israel,

" Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.

Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.

For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?

And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?" Deut. 4:5-9

They had God close by, and His righteous remedy of effective laws that would display to the rest of the world the liberty that God intended life to be about. That was their declared purpose to display "in the sight of the nations."

Likewise, there is only one place that I can recall, where Jesus described the identifying mark of all true believers.

"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." John 13:34,35

It makes sense that the only effective enemy tactic against these outcomes was and is to misapply labels like Israel and Christian church to the savage inhumanity, murder, and God-rejecting tribalism carried out in the name of them both.

The defense of life, liberty, and property are clear boundaries where the appropriate use of force is justified.

If those who claim the name of Israel, seek to justify their unrighteous actions, or those who claim name of Christ as their own, hate one another without a cause, then we are told to count them as misrepresentative of what God has called us to recognize.

(Jesus was asked this question in Luke chapter 9. Here is His answer.)

49 Now John answered and said, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us.” 50 But Jesus said to him, “Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side.”

51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up, that He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem, 52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him. 53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?”
55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.” And they went to another village.

Northern Europeans if there wasn't plenty of opportunity to kill, rape and torture. That's why they loved Germans and Scots and Scandinavians so much, they were easy to enslave and LOVED killing. Not much has changed.

In all fairness all wars here in the U.S. have been because of the "State" (having many definitions) and not led by any one church (having many denominations).
In addition it is important to point out that institutional churches nowadays get their funding from donations, contrary to the "State" that requires that we pay taxes.
But the bottom line is that individuals start wars using either the authority of a state or authority of an institutionalized church.
In terms of the true Christian religion there is only one government, that being God, and only one Church, that being those who follow and become one with Christ.
grant

Liberty_ Belle

I had a discussion with my Pastor before service this morning. He was very helpful. He gave me a copy of the 2008 Book of Resolutions of the United Methodist Church which has a section devoted to the war on terror.

In this section are the following words:

"Unilateral and preemptive actions and policies of nations including the "doctrine of preemption" and the US invasion of Iraq, are disproportionate, deeply disturbing and counter-productive"

"pledges to examine critically the causes of terrorism"

"opposes the use of indiscriminate military force to combat terrorism"

I told my Pastor I was serious about this topic and he welcomed my enthusiasm and gave me the names of like minded individuals within our church to explore possible actions.