My healthcare 'debate'. POST YOUR OWN DEBATE! There are some very ignorant people in this here country.

Here's a nice long debate on healthcare on facebook. Some people have no clue what a debate means even... Geez. I ask this guy continually if he actually read what I wrote...

Enjoy! (p.s. I'm steven)

Sarah 'Dakota' McCure So ... if we have public health care now... what's the sense in paying for private health insurance??

Jim Skaleski
We don't have it yet

Sarah 'Dakota' McCure
Sadly, I know almost nothing as to how our government works... I guess if the House passes something, it has to do something else to go into effect? Okay. What else does it have to do?
So... let's make it: "So ... if the public health care bill passes... what's the sense in paying for private health insurance??"

Jim Skaleski
It has to pass through the Senate, then the President has to sign it into law. :-)
And I believe that it's just a cheaper alternative to force insurance companies to become more competitive...which will in turn drive down the costs that have been inflating out of control for years.

Steven Noise Klismet
I'm not so optimistic about the whole driving down of costs thing...The government intervention we have had for 40 some odd years has failed to deliver lower prices and in some cases via the "Federal" Reserve and Medicare/Medicade prices are held high on purpose and there is no competition. Healthcare is a good/service and it is the only good/... Read Moreservice in this country that we are not allowed to get the cost of before we purchase it. Food is another good we purchase. I need food to live as much as I need healthcare to survive.. Is anybody advocating socializing food nationally as they arre doing with healthcare?? I would agree with STATE healthcare plans before I would agree with FEDERAL healthcare. Although, Massechussets doesnt seem to be enjoying their state plan.. I wouldn't vote for either of them, I would vote for true free markets to create competition and drive prices down. Like I said earlier, we have had government run healthcare for 40 years now. So why fix the problem with more of what caused the problem? In all fields of technology, be it cell phones or computers or whatever prices start out high and gradually go down. However this is not the case in the technology field of healthcare.. Why?? government intervention and REGULATIONS put out the competing charity hospitals our country once flourished with... Healthcare company A is competing with company B. Under our current system company A is subsidized/given money to by our government via your tax dollars. Now company B must compete against company A AND the government! Company A lobbies for MORE REGULATIONS and company B is EVENTUALLY put out of business by having to keep up with rising costs to meet regulations...

Jim Skaleski
We do socialize food. They're called food stamps. However, nobody cries foul at that. Do you have a real point to make? Health care is broken, and I am not a fan of just assuming it will fix itself...because trends have shown it most definitely will NOT.

Steven Noise Klismet
"Under our current system company A is subsidized/given money to by our government via your tax dollars. Now company B must compete against company A AND the government! Company A lobbies for MORE REGULATIONS and company B is EVENTUALLY put out of business by having to keep up with rising costs to meet regulations..." - destroying free market competition/lower prices...
That is my point. Charity trumps government stealing my money for those who would use it to choke out real competition. Your "trends" you write about are all based on what? Oh thats right they're based on government run healthcare from the past 40+ years.. So if I can get this straight, you complain about what we have (as do I) and yet YOUR solution to the problem is MORE of what got us here in the first place..
And basic economics states if you subsidise something (i.e. provide something for free) you get more of it.. be it welfare or food stamps or whatever. Basic economics also states that when you give something away for free (healthcare) it becomes scarce and unavailable causing rationing. Look at the H1N1 vaccine! Sure it was free but I talked to my mothers coworker, a doctor, and he says sure the vaccine is free but there isn't enough of it to cover everyone.
And as far as me not having a point, I thought I came across pretty respectable towards your views... You mentioned competition and lowered prices which is great and what made america great, but you mis-place the blame and are confused on what a free market is and the benefits of it.. You blame capitalism and favor destroying capitalism for socialism. Government subsidizing companies via the healthcare bill is not competition and never will result in competition. However I don't see you responding to anything I wrote... You ask me if I have a point.. did you take the time and read what I wrote?? Wouldn't surprise me, you probably haven't even attempted to READ the healthcare bill...have you?. Well I guess you're not too far off from being a congressman seeing as how 90% of congress are not READING OR WRITING the bills these days...

Steven Noise Klismet
And basic economics states if you subsidise something (i.e. provide something for 'free') you get more of it.. be it welfare or food stamps or whatever.
In other words, the more you pump into the subsidies of food stamps the more people you will have applying for food stamps because the people are being taxed more and for SOME people they maybe on the edge already so EVENTUALLY the new tax to pay for food stamps will cause this on the edge person to have to apply for food stamps because government took more of his money.

Steven Noise Klismet
I think I have a lot of points.. Points based on our countries history. Wether or not you would debate those points or just state things like 'healthcare is broken' more n more is up to you. I know healthcare is broken. Just because I don't want to socialize it even more doesnt mean i want it to stay the same.

Steven Noise Klismet
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
I'm gonna go out on a limb and just assume you favor micheal moore & the sicko movie.. Well, this video should be interesting to you.. Enjoy!

Brad Brown
I'm against this bill 100%. I do not believe that ppl that dont work should be getting free health care that i am paying for. And plus this is just another step toward Commies.

Jaime Nelson
There is already free healthcare for people that don't work. Well, at least in wisconsin, it is called badgercare. It is also available to people who do work that are not offered health insurance through their jobs. My husband works full time but is not offered health insurance, I get health care through the VA, but it doesn't cover my spouse or ... Read Morechild. Badgercare will cover my daughter, but not my husband because we are $11 a month over the maximum income allotment, but that $11 isn't enough for us to purchase private health insurance. I think having it available for all is a good idea. Works pretty good for Canada I hear and last I checked they weren't communist.

Ruth Lane
Go Jaime Nelson, you're right on track!

Jim Skaleski
Steven, I think the only problem is that all of your points are money/economy related and not "people" related. I think it may be easy to say health care is fine if you are already in a position where your health care covers everything you need. However, for most people this either is not the case at all, or their "fine" health care has stabbed them in the back for various reasons.
I think it is strange to say you support having your tax dollars go towards two wars to protect our freedom, when many Americans have no sense of what America really is because they are essentially screwed when they get sick or hurt. We invest in homeless shelters, food stamps, and other services for those less fortunate, yet we should do nothing at all for those that are not well?
I just simply disagree.

Jim Skaleski
Also probably important to note is that a "public option" will, unfortunately, most likely not survive in the Senate and be removed.

Steven Noise Klismet
"I think the only problem is that all of your points are money/economy related and not "people" related"
My points are based on reality and logic and not strictly on my emotions... My points are backed by the Austrian school of economics and not stupid richard nixons keynsian economics..
"I think it is strange to say you support having your tax dollars go towards two wars to protect our freedom"
I am about as anti-war is they come. I don't think it's very nice to put words in my mouth.

Steven Noise Klismet
"to protect our freedom" - Freedom does not need to be protected by fighting undeclared and unconstitutional wars. If anything, the only way to protect freedom is to give the people more freedom. Wars have always and will always be an impediment to freedom.

Steven Noise Klismet
"I think it may be easy to say health care is fine if you are already in a position where your health care covers everything you need"
I do have a few medical problems and I have no insurance so you can see I need healthcare reform just as badly as anyone else... I just want REAL REFORM and not more of the SAME that we've have for the last 40+ years... Read More. That will not help anybody. We need government to stop picking and choosing who will win and who will fail in the market and just let the companies compete!

Steven Noise Klismet
"yet we should do nothing at all for those that are not well?
I just simply disagree."
Had you took the time to READ WHAT I WROTE(!!!!!!) You would have gathered that I favor charity and charity hospitals. Charity is not begging. Charity is Charity! ... Read More
For example, if you remember the big Tsunami a couple years back. Our government stole your money and gave it to those victims but if you look at the charity that donated to those victims (i.e. those who gave through the goodness of thier heart and not because they had their money stolen from government) you will see that the charity more than quadrupled the government-theft amounts...
Please try and think with facts and logic and site specific examples/scenarios.. debating is much more fun and relevant that way.
P.S. You said I was for the war because you assumed that I was a republican did you not? Well I am not a republican or a democrat. I do not support undeclared illegal wars, whether its obama or bush carrying them out. I support the constitution of this great country and if you can SHOW ME WHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION that it gives congress (or anyone) authority to run my healthcare please show me. The constitution is our rule book and it is there only to protect our freedom. Sounds to me like you might need to go get urself a copy of it.

Steven Noise Klismet-
"Jim Skaleski- I get health care through the VA"
Getting healthcare through the va is legitimate. If anything I belive we can never do enough to support our vets. I do not support war but we owe it to them to help.
I bet, however, that if you went into the VA around the end of the year they would tell u in most places that they lack funding to treat you. It is disgusting how the congress-critters can have the cadillac of health insurance while our veterans have the shittiest care possible....
Sure Canada has healthcare of the socialist flavor but what comes with that care? Rationing and long waiting lists.. the same as every other socialist system. The same with the VA healthcare system. The same will come with this new bill...
And I ask everybody this question.. Have any of you attempted to read this healthcare bill even? If not then you would have to admit u know not of which you speak and you are just debating how you FEEL about the subject and are unable to really debate using FACTS...