NCEL National Clean Elections Lawsuit In 50 States Whats Your Opinion
Posted December 16th, 2007 by Thomas
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Do you think this will go anywhere or will the courts/judges squash it?
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If You Sincerely Want To Protect This Issue
From being sidetracked you need to have people write to Jim Condit and tell him to clean this up with Meetup leaders.
Even though his words are true they are destructive ammunition that will be used against Ron Paul AND the NCEL
Here's my message to Jim:
From:America_freedom@comcast.net (Freedom Now!)
To:votefraud@fuse.net
Subject:Alert
Date:Thursday, December 13, 2007 6:19:54 PM
Jim,
You need to get rid of the radio ad audio. Using the word "Jews" is causing all of the Ron Paul meetup leaders to alert volunteers against votefraud.org
Clean your stuff up so it doesn't offend people. And I don't mean the bad guys. I mean the people who would be our supporters. How would Ron Paul word your message?
Here is one of many emails circulating:
They have a point. This is a political campaign and we run the risk of alienating people who are with us.
And don't ever bust my balls again
about, and I quote,"You sound like a TROLL deflecting debate the most important lawsuit filed in the last 2 decades."
So then answer this...........
Why are the meetup groups leaders sending emails to ALL Meetup groups telling Ron Paul supporters to stay away from Bob Schulze?
"Some of these groups specifically caused the national campaign a lot of headaches at the Iowa Straw poll, getting to the point where the national campaign sent out a very terse and public "knock it off" message to them (which, to my knowledge, they've never done for anything else)."
I say piss on the national campaign staff, bunch of F******g crooks that count votes in a back room in the dark..
Sunshine is a great Disinfectant!
Integrity in our voting process how nice... how Constitutional!
-
You can not be up to any good when you count the votes in secrecy with no reliable way to validate them against fraud..
BUMP.....;>)
BUMP.....;>)
I Am A Plaintiff
I Am A Plaintiff in the National Clean Elections Lawsuit I proud to say.
Bob Schulz works his a** of for all of us and I'd like to say thanks to him and the team who are fighting for our rights to a clean, transparent election in Federal Court in New York.
Bob and We the people have been around for quite some time and I'm also proud to say that I signed the petitions for redress of griveance which is also up for review by the Supreme Court. The may hear it in January. The short story on that case is that We the People sued the Federal Government for Redress of Grievance as specified in the constitution. The lower courts uled that we had a right to petition but that the goivernment had no obligation to address our grievance. We wanted to not pay our taxes until they answered our questions specifically regarding the legality of the income tax and they refused. I coined the slogan, "Dear Government: Why Won't You Answer" , that was used in some of the early advertising. What I can understand but do not like is the fact that the government, with the complicity of the courts, has effectivly made an end run around the Constitution.
By the way, let's not forget all of the good patriots who have gone to jail and in some cases been murdered by "Our Government"
Ed and Elaine Brown (Imprisoned)
Yori vonKahl (Imprisoned)
Gordon von Kahl ( Yori's father, murdered)
Dick Simkanin (Imprisoned)
Wesley Snipes (Yes, the actor, Indicted 10/2006)
Irwin Schiff (Imprisoned)
Edward T. Woodger (Imprisoned)
And the list goes on....
I guess the people leisted above are the primary reason there are no cameras allowed in Federal Court rooms. From all of the trial transcripts that I've read about these cases most of these folks aren't even allowed an affirmative defense. I really that's a shame. I think we need to encourage our congresscritters to cut the funding to the Federal Courts until such a time as we have full transparency in the judicial system. If they keep treating their courtrooms like star chambers and everything is done in the black we''l keep having the problem of tyranny from black-robed hucksters shilling for the government/congress who want nothing more than for you to give up your money quietly.
In Liberty,
David Johnson
Peori, AZ
I, too, am a plaintiff
..so I can not do this. However, I really urge everyone who wants to help, to call their governor, or attorney general's office, or state's lawyers' office and tell them NOT to contest this lawsuit. Why should these states be entering motions to dismiss when this suit is ONLY for our votes to be counted by hand and in front of us? No state should be against this, especially with the information we KNOW about these error-filled voting machines. Most all of the states are entering motions to dismiss, etc., etc. They should STOP. They should just let it happen. By the way, all 50 of the states were served by Nov. 1, 2007, so this means YOU! Help the US have clean voting tallies as it states in Our Constitution. Anything else is criminal. States need to have their citizens involved!
Arkansas Plaintiff, NCEL
Bump...
This is a smart post. We know from straw polls that some are not adverse to cheating, so this is probably important.
This suit is simplicity
This suit is simplicity itself...
We're not asking for damages just to do it fairly.
How can the States be against fair elections? Hummmmmmmmmm?
Makes them look bad doesn't it?
Call your legislator, AG, Governor, etc. Bombard them with emails. Ask them how they can be against free elections. Jamb them up hard and don't take no for an answer.
In Liberty,
Dave Johnson
Peoria, AZ
This is so IMPORTANT and
This is so IMPORTANT and needs to be TOP priority for anyone who is concerned about legitimate votes being counted! And that won't happen if those "rigged" and easily hacked electronic voting machines are used. If the courts block this lawsuit, then we are all pretty much screwed and all of our hard work and donations to Ron Paul will absolutely be in vain!
I am one of the ones on the waiting list as a backup volunteer to be a plaintiff in my state. I have recently ordered and viewed the awsome and hair raising documentary "UNCOUNTED" about voter fraud. It absolutely says it all and PROVES that deliberate interference and hacking were involved in the last two elections. I highly encourage everyone to PLEASE spend some critical time contacting your local elections office and ask on how you can become an elections judge. This is for the purpose of eyeballing and taking notes during the process in case there is some "funny" business. IT IS UP TO US TO TAKE ACTION AND MAKE THE CHANGES!
lets not lose this thread
this is the lawsuit that will restore fair and verifiable elections. go to the site and pledge support.
I support this effort and I
I support this effort and I hope it moves forward.
Jim Condit Needs correction
In one of Jim's votefraud.org videos/audio recordings he says the media is oned by "Jews".
Doesn't work. As Ron Paul supporters we can't align with that kind of comment. Even if it were true it's goes against our principles.
WTF?
I directed you to Robert Schulz's page and your comeback is a comment that Jim Condit made on another site audio recording that he made about "Jews" owning the media, well duh. I asked for your opinion about the 50 State lawsuit that wethepeople has initiated that could delay the primaries?
You sound like a TROLL deflecting debate the most important lawsuit filed in the last 2 decades.
Oh by the way heres the Facts on who owns the media or rather 96% of it.
Hmmm Eisner..Redstone...Murdoch...Levin......
http://www.mediachannel.o...
http://www.wethepeoplefou...
Well Duh- Jim Condit's comment is disrupting this debate
The Meetup leaders are sending emails to ALL Meetup groups telling Ron Paul supporters to stay away from Bob Schulze.
I'm for the Clean Elections.
This is how Jim Condit's comments are effecting this critical measure.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Bradley A. Porter"
Hi folks, just a word.
Recently, a number of "Vote Fraud" groups have been making the rounds on Meetup lists and pro-Ron Paul sites, essentially trying to poach Ron Paul supporters (and donors) into supporting their cause, against the explicit wishes and objections of the Paul campaign.
The ones that I've caught that are all in the same loose-appearing coalition of efforts: Jim Condit Jr., VoteFraud.org, Operation Sunshine, Truth 247 (all three are Jim Condit Jr. operations), Robert Schulz of the "We the People" foundation, takebackamerica2008.com, NCEL (National "Clean Elections" Lawsuit), and I'm sure mor e.
Some of these groups specifically caused the national campaign a lot of headaches at the Iowa Straw poll, getting to the point where the national campaign sent out a very terse and public "knock it off" message to them (which, to my knowledge, they've never done for anything else). These guys mean to do it all over again at the Iowa caucuses, New Hampshire, and more.
Jim Condit Jr., for instance, now argues that the reason they were told to fu...blow off, is because the Ron Paul campaign is full of neocon shills.
Yes, that the Ron Paul campaign is full of neocon shills. His words.
They sound good on a first pass (who doesn't want fair elections?). But if you scratch the surface, the usual agenda for these groups often boils down to "The Jews are stealing our elections." And more.
You can find links to the quick and dirty here: http://thecrossedpond.com...
But really 10 minutes with google tells you about all you need to know.
Point being, they're trying to get Ron Paul supporters on board to support them, using Ron Paul grassroots channels, and actively working against Ron Paul's interests and the stated wishes of his campaign. They're trying to get Ron Paul supporters to volunteer for them and donate to them despite the fact that the campaign has already told them once to go away, that their "help" is not needed or wanted, and that their only accomplishment at the Iowa straw poll was to sour a lot of people to the Paul campaign.
I've got no problem with them doing their thing independently, or anyone joining them if that's their cup of tea, but not under the Ron Paul banner. To my mind, they are trying to lure good-intentioned supporters to their cause, and their cause is not firs t and foremost to get Ron Paul elected, which is the dealbreaker right there.
I'd suggest you spread the word so, at the very least, people aren't fooled and know what they're getting into, and where you see these missives and call-to-arms of theirs pop up, smack it right back down again. These guys can cause significant damage to the campaign and the movement if they're allowed oxygen.
Brad
Here is my response:
From:America_freedom@comcast.net (Freedom Now!)
[Add to Address Book]
To:ronpaul-97@meetup.com
BCC:baporter@gmail.com
Subject:Re: [ronpaul-97] Don't Let "Vote Fraud" Groups Attach Themselves to the Ron Paul Revolution
Date:Wednesday, December 12, 2007 3:18:31 AM
Let me make this real simple.
Error: "Don't Let "Vote Fraud" Groups Attach Themselves to the Ron Paul Revolution"
Fact: Vote Fraud Groups Are part of The Ron Paul Revolution and they preceded this phase of the Revolution.
To think we can win this election without watchdogs like the organizations you mentioned is a fantasy. Controlling election results is a lot easier than controlling the "old media". And in our case more detrimental. We are exactly the type of challenger the current election machine is designed to squash.
And finally, to use the language you've chosen to use below is no different than the kind of language that comes from the leadership we have in power already.
I quote, "I'd suggest you spread the word so, at the very least, people aren't fooled and know what they're getting into, and where you see these missives and call-to-arms of theirs pop up, smack it right back down again. These guys can cause significant damage to the campaign and the movement if they're allowed oxygen."
To discourage people from supporting them is bullspatter.
These organizations are not "enemies". These people have been fighting for your vote to count for years. They put their lives and fortunes on the line long ago.
The campaign is not Ron Paul's campaign. Never has been. No campaign on earth has this kind of cross coverage on this and a variety of other issues. This campaign is Of, For and By the People. We have it well under control.
The only thanks due the campaign staff is web development, literature, supplies and logistical management. They were in panic a few weeks ago over money for advertising. We're almost at our target for the quarter and we may in fact hit $18m by year end. They're mailing expensive "books" to homes in primary states - not cool. Supporters in the field spend many times what the campaign "shows" on the ticker for contributions.
While I appreciate the efforts of all, I don't need anyone to think or speak for me.
Moreover, if supporters don't ensure clean elections the "burn" of another stolen election after all of this passionate work will set this movement back and sour thousands from participating in the future.
Here is a study published by the Federal Election Assistance Commission:
"The federal Election Assistance Commission -- the agency created after the 2000 presidential debacle that is tasked with overseeing voting machine testing and serving as a clearinghouse for election administration information -- published a survey of the 2006 election today that reveals some interesting stats."
http://blog.wired.com/27b...
Be sure to open the 100 page pdf.
http://blog.wired.com/27b...
The report should send chills down any Ron Paul supporter's spine.
And it's not the work of any of the organizations you mentioned.
Why do you think Rudy Giuliani is not campaigning half as hard as Ron Paul?
Why is Rudy so focused on Florida?
The answers are in the pdf. file.
Ohio Election Portends Trouble
http://www.wired.com/scie...
Angelo Serignese
It IS of utmost importance...
We all surely remember the non stop news of the fiasco that happened in Florida when GWB was put into office, so a whole lot of scrutiny and clear-headed thinking is called for here.
There have been reportings of fraud in Brooklyn NY and in many other places over the years, which only a handful of concerned local people ever tried to remedy often with little or no results because of the apathy of the electorate.
What would be the point off all the hard work from people from all walks of life, the delegates won, the voting done, if we cannot CERTIFY that Ron Paul either won or lost the election due to the fact that electronic and computer voting machines have been the sole means of trusting the outcome of the election??
We know to what depths and the dirty rotten trickery that the MSM has sunk to in order to downplay and sabotage his campaign, does anyone naively think they won't try or haven't tried before to sabotage the voting apparatus??????
Look at how the people of this country have gotten one antiConstitutionalist after another over the years and the will of the people has near always been thwarted!
There are MANY people out there concerned about this issue; of course we would not want anyone with a PERSONAL agenda to disrupt the campaign, we also would not want to see all the effort to get Ron Paul elected go down in flames either because we didn't want to look at a very real issue - VOTING FRAUD!
We cannot put all our energies into the beginning of this wonderful journey, without being aware of the stakes - being ready to act at the end.
I'm with you on this one
I'm with you on this one Thomas. People need to focus on the real problem here because it's huge.