Honestly, who knew of Bhutto when she was ALIVE?
Posted December 27th, 2007 by WhoatemyLiberty
output
I sure didn't. Theres are tons of stuff happening around the world that isn't reported on in the news here in the states.
Sometimes I feel the news media reports on stories that are of the sole interest of the elites who run this country and not for regular citizens.
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Pakistan
has been in the news often, it is a country that can have a lot to do with what happens in the muslim world.Buhtto was an influencial politician who, regardless of her shortcommings, was trying to neutralize the power of the religious fanatics. If we had been practicing Ron's type of diplomacy, we would not be in the present situation being supportive of a dictator, and with the possibility that the fanatics will gain more strength, while almost everybody in that country blames us for their problems.
Wonder
I just wonder why she so confidently reported that Osama bin Laden is dead.
DP software registers flagged comments on Google
I appreciate that RP supporters are not being politically correct about the Bhutto matter, because it should be clear that the American left wing was trying to ram that corrupt politician down the throats of the Pakistanis as their only "alternative" to military dictatorship. Now our Republican candidates are foolishly acting like we need a renewed war on the enemies of Hillary Clinton's best friend.
Moderator: A problem with the software is that flagged comments get registered on Google and, if someone does a search for a topic like Bhutto, they accidentally flag comments all over again that maybe should not have been flagged in the first place.
I accidentally flagged other people's comments just now that I thought were really informative and need to remain here.
This would cause a "pile on effect" because a moderator would tend to want to delete a comment that seems to upset a lot of people...when the comment had only upset one person who could easily have been a Huckabee or Clinton support hanging out here.
Please consider having a programmer remove this liability by making flagged comment pages unreadable by Google spiders.
NPR Reported on her from time to time lately
NPR Reported on her from time to time lately
It is sad to me...
that I learned who she was this morning and had no idea she was dead until this afternoon!
When I woke up this morning MSN had a slideshow of the most influential male/females of 2007. It did not say anything about her death - must have been written prior to the assination?
http://www.hollyscoop.com...
"Benazir Bhutto
Benazir Bhutto is the first woman to be elected to leadership of a post-colonial Muslim nation—and she's done it twice. Though this former prime minister of Pakistan has also been twice removed on charges of corruption, that doesn't make her less influential or impressive. She has headed the secular, liberal Pakistan People's Party (PPP) from exile for years, but returned to Pakistan in 2007 to run for prime minister a third time."
I was kind of impressed ANY women would run president in that culture.
Blessings,
Teresa
Bhutto's family
If you knew her family background, and how things work over there, you'd cease to be impressed.
If you had ever lived there, you'd probably get sick to your stomach after reading that blithering nonsense.
The Pakistanis need to sort this out themselves. 1999 was a bloodless coup. They were so sick of electing one corrupt politician after another, particularly from the PPP, that the people cheered and waved as the tanks went by after Musharraf declared martial law.
I know, because I was there. We need to leave these people alone. Americans have NO IDEA what they are getting in to.
-dave
"She's lower than the lowest whore outside the Holland Tunnel at 3am in fishnet stockings." - Michael Savage in reference to Dianne Sawyer
all the Pakistanis
.... I have spoken with about Bhutto in recent months say her & her father were corrupt & looted their country like crazy!
And they had no interest in her returning to ANY leadership role in Pakistan.
She was a Shia Muslim too, and about 3/4 of Pakistani Muslims are Sunni. So definitely a conflict on both fronts (though it seems the corruption issue was first & foremost).
I have met her briefly...
in Karachi. I don't have aparticular taste for her and she was corrupt, but no more corrput than your average US House member (and not as much as Billy Tauzin that's for sure).
I think most of you miss the point though. Regardless of her honesty, this post seems to imply that she is insignificant. I have no love for the woman, but she is part of a political dynasty in Pakistan and a major global political figure. I would not underestimate the importance of her death, esp 2 weeks before the election.
Also, it is no easy task to be the first woman in modern times to lead a Muslim country (ahem, US electorate), much less campaign for constitutional government there.
Not important to me
I could really care less. She was a crook.
Really, why should I care? If people want to think that this will shake the foundations of the modern world, then they are free to think so. I disagree, but hey, whatever.
Musharraf will get his soon enough too. And Pakistan will erupt into Civil War. That's fine by me.
And our elected leaders will send our sons and daughters over there to stabilize a country that is more f*d up than all the arab nations combined. There you have it.
So, yeah, she's important. Her death will be used by those in power to make more war, steal more money, and increase their power.
And they can only do that if you think she's important.
If you didn't care, our politicians wouldn't care.
And wouldn't THAT be awesome?
-dave
"She's lower than the lowest whore outside the Holland Tunnel at 3am in fishnet stockings." - Michael Savage in reference to Dianne Sawyer
I have known of Mrs.Bhutto for many years
She had supporters and detractors around the world. News of her assassination was shocking to me though not surprising. Some in Pakistan are no doubt happy while others are surely grieved.
The negative comments about
The negative comments about this lady don't really belong on the Ron Paul forum. We're all about liberty and a total respect for life, if some of you guys haven't realized that yet. Maybe we don't agree with Ms. Bhutto's politics, but she was still an incredibly courageous human being and deserves mucho respect.
Huh?
The majority of the comments here point out her corruption. I don't see a whole lot that disagree with any of her particular policies.
As for her bravery, that is true. It takes a lot of courage to steal millions of dollars from the people of your homeland and then march back in as if you are savior. It also takes a populace that has an ever shorter political memory than ours does.
-dave
"She's lower than the lowest whore outside the Holland Tunnel at 3am in fishnet stockings." - Michael Savage in reference to Dianne Sawyer
agreed
it's one thing to hurl ad hominem attacks at people - that should not be acceptable to anyone here.
But to point out the corruption, the looting etc by Bhutto & her father is no different than pointing out the corruption here at home.
No one deserves to be assassinated, but when you destroy the lives of your people for years ... this result is not so surprising.
I did also.
I was watching closely how it would play out between Musarraf & Bhutto. And I believe this is an ominous end not just for Prime Minister Bhutto but for us all.
Corrupt.... .. . .
Bhutto and her retinue dragged Pakistan down to be the second most corrupt nation on this planet - second only to Nigeria. She took the country to the precipice. She should not have been in Pakistan, only intervention from the USA has allowed her back, through pressurisation of Musharraf. She should still be in exile awaiting corruption charges when she deigned to step foot onto Pakistan soil.
Another brilliant masterstroke from the geniuses running US foreign policy, along with forcing the Palestinians to hold free elections, which duely brought Hamas.
I did
I did because I lived in Pakistan for 18 months in 99-00
She was a common thief, nothing more. Maybe that's why Hillary liked her so much. They had a lot to talk about.
Ya know, stealing from the people...
Convincing the people that you care about them.....
Stealing from them......
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...
-dave
"She's lower than the lowest whore outside the Holland Tunnel at 3am in fishnet stockings." - Michael Savage in reference to Dianne Sawyer
..
She was a tool of the elites...horrible anyway. My mom went to school with her btw.
She's Been Obscure for a While
She was out of the limelight, in exile for years. She was quite famous in the 90's as Pakistan's first female president. It spoke to how far we have to come with women's rights. To think that a Muslim nation has had a female president, while we are still waiting. I wonder what Carol Paul will be doing in 8 years? ;)
Hillary is pouncing on "Her"
personal friendship. The press does portray Bhutto as extremely popular. Sound like a good politician that had come back to cleanse her sins?
Here is the summary of BB; last speech yesterday
PESHAWAR: Chairperson, Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP), Ms Benazir Bhutto Wednesday said the previous government had completely failed to deliver the goods for overall interest of the country. Addressing a public meeting here at Arbab Niaz Cricket Stadium, Ms Bhutto said terrorist activities are being orchestrated with an aim to prevent the political process and keeping the people under slavery. She promised that PPP will provide all the basic facilities including telephone, electricity, gas besides employment to the jobless people. The PPP chairperson said the country is facing a serious law and order situation due to the flawed policies of the government. “PPP does not believe in the politics of violence but supremacy of the Constitution and democracy,” she maintained. Strong economy, dispensation of justice, promotion of peace and brotherhood are my foremost priorities, she added. Ms Benazir Bhutto said she believed in the freedom of press, is against restrictions on student organizations and labor unions and that her party will support workforce and laborers after coming into power. She said “food, shelter and clothing” which is the slogan of the party is exactly what people need at this time. The central and provincial leaders of PPP also addressed the public meeting.
Anyone...
...who follows world affairs. Did you not hear Ron on TV earlier? We either find that we must support some military extremist regime or some socialist who stole from the people (Bhutto) which is why we need to STAY OUT OF IT altogether. However, I fear this will cause people to become fearful and politicians like McCain, Giuliani and Clinton will take advantage of it, ramping up their war rhetoric to show you how much 'better' they are at defending your liberty and safety.
In fact, Hillary is already going to try to take advantage of the power of association of sympathy by telling a story of how close she and BB were...God how predictable can you get!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really do hate Hillary...
wow what a rude post ... for
wow what a rude post ... for christ sake man ... she was an advocate for freedom man ... she was definitely relevant and yes i heard about her before she died ... damn man ... lighten up and be a little sympathetic for freedoms cause
bhutto was representative of the removal of U.S. backed pakistani puppet dictator
i would be just as sympathetic for her as if ron paul was killed
don't kid yourself ... paul is in serious danger as well
and this had NOTHING to do with osama and the taliban ... thats a load of BS
the government killed her before the election ... no kidding
The government killed her?
The government killed her? Thats interesting, seems to me your ahead of the local news and police in Pakistan in solving this crime. The fact you think this has nothing to do with the taliban and osama is such an absurd statement, maybe you should read a little about the subject before spouting off views, better yet talk to someone from Pakistan that can tell you firsthand the situation there has everything to do with extremism. Bhutto was no advocate of freedom, she was as corrupt as the other prominent Pakistani leaders from this generation. Just because she wanted power for herself by the removal of Mushareff, does not make her a beacon of liberty.
Deleted
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I did. And I knew she was
I did. And I knew she was going to get whacked. I was just wondering how long it would take.
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okay now the posts are getting interesting....
wow I thought I was the only one around here associated with Pakistan that was a die hard Ron Paul supporter ....yes I did have success in getting people to change from democrats to repubs for the doctor but I never knew there would be members on daily paul....wow....and karima you couldnt have said it any better.....
Benazir was the Hillary of Pakistan....
hey now that you guys have made yourselves available ...I would like to know if you guys have canvassed for the doctor in your community?....because I have and am getting an amazing response...although to my most disappointment they are registered as democrats (b/c of bush) and are in a closed primary....but they do like the doctor and have heard of him....
Benazir Bhutto has been relevant for decades...
...even more so in recent months.
Understandably, it's not easy to know what's happening around the world when most of us want to know if we'll have money for gas, food and rent from week to week.
I saw her on 60 minutes back in '83 or so,
and I did a paper on her for a class in '85 or '86. I can't say I thought much about her until her reappearance on the stage earlier this year.
Pakistanis hated Bhutto
Bhutto is the Hillary Clinton of Pakistan. She represents the neoliberal faction of the pro-Israel lobby whereas Musharraf represents the neocon agenda. Both agendas overlap similarly: US Control Over Pakistan.
Bhutto was hated for her western lifestyle by average Pakistanis. Even among US students from Pakistan, as I recall that day, it was the second happiest day of our lives when student protests resulted in her stepping down as prime minister. (The first happiest day being the day Israel got kicked out of Lebanon!) I doubt Musharraf killed Bhutto. The Pakistani people, especially those who valued their country's sovereignty had much to fear from Benazir bhuttos thugs, who assassinated student protesters and religious leaders who opposed her corruption and pro-US policy.
Oh and for everyone praising
Oh and for everyone praising the late Prime Minister, she was an extremely corrupt politician, so I am not quite sure why all this praise is being lavished on her. Replacing a bum with another bum would have done nothing to improve the plight of the Pakistani people.
I did. I knew about her
I did.
I knew about her already for a while. I was afraid that she would be killed off by Musharaf's government.
She was the only threat to dethroning President Musharaf, and he knew that.
She was a pro peace and pro liberty candidate who most likely would've won the upcoming Pakistani presidential elections.
It's really sad. I hope her supporters give them Musharaf people hell.
I did
not a lot but I saw a few interviews with her. She really stuck out it my mind because I thought it was very unusual that a woman carried so much power in a Muslim country. She seemed strong in a way that I had never seen a Muslim woman before.
General oberservation about Paul supporters
I understand most people don't pay much attention to foreign affairs, or international relations. I am amazed however that the supporters of a candidate who runs on a platform that attracts almost all of its attention from foreign policy positions are so uninformed about the subject. The reader below suggested reading the economist, and I can vouch that it is on the best sources for general knowledge on what is happening around the globe. I have a vested interest in foreign affairs due to my profession, but I think it would be great if Ron Paul supporters would educate themselves as much as possible on the subject, since it is the lynchpin of his campaign.
Hope that everyone shows up to vote soon!
condescending
You come off so self-promoting and condescending to others. IF you read below, you will see that everyone knows who she is. You need to go wipe your snotty little nose, it is running away with you.
generalizations are generally bad logic
just like stereotypes and other forms of negative grouping. This thread should be deleted though.
Anyone who reads mainstream news...
would have heard about her. She has been all over the news the past few months after Pakistan offically became a US-backed military dictatorship. She seemed to represent a true opposition to the American puppet regime.
I did
Anybody who reads a newspaper knows who she is
BB- Benazir Bhutto said last night:
Sound like she followed the Doctor's Doctrine: peace, trade with all and talk to the "terrorists and extremists".
Benazir was sure to win a landslide if elections were not tampered with.
Pakistan People’s Party Benazir Bhutto said that her party has adopted a strategy to counter the planners of the rigging in the elections.
She was talking with journalists after meeting with Afghan president Hamid Karzai in Islamabad.
Benazir Bhutto said that after winning the elections, her party would promote trade with Afghanistan and extend the cooperation with all countries including India.
She said that Pakistan is affected directly by the events of Afghanistan and it has been affected due to Afghan immigrants. (forced into the country by the wars)
She said that the foreign aid of ten billion dollars received during the previous regime is not available and those responsible for this have not been made accountable whereas the chief justice, who caught the persons responsible for corruption in the privatization of Steel Mills, has been removed.
haha...now evolution...
dude when Ron Paul says something he has 35 yrs worth of record to back it up....for someone like Benazir ( who looted the people of Pakistan and saw the rise of Taliban) to be associated with doctor I think is a disgrace....I understand tthat you meant it in the best possible way.....but you should realize she was pandering the west to gain power again....
also while the rest of the leaders in the country were being bundled in to prisons during the Martial law....she was allowed to roam the country freely...I ask you why?
landslide victory?...I really doubt that....and I could explain if you would be interested.....
although yes your judiciary point is spot on...but over a period of time she retracted from restoring the sacked judges....so you be the judge
OK, american empire
OK, she was pandering and I took the bite. Sorry to compare her statements to the Doctors points of view on trade and peace. I accept she was pandering.
I do value your point of view so tell us who do you think was responsible and why she was had a "death target" placed on her? If she was not a shoe in to win, what threat did she pose to Pakistanis?
Sins from the past or fear for the future?
lived in that country....
My advice DO NOT send our brave men to that country...and I could bet my whole life savings that we will not....Pakistan is NOT Iraq or Afghanistan... .....those people are very protective of their national sovereignty as any dignified nation should be....Now that would be a mess for the whole world.....because it is a key ally of china and she will surely come to its defense and India would want a share of Pakistan.....so it more complicated than Iraq....well lets say a million times...
Agree.
As if Iraq isn't already complicated enough.
I Knew
I saw her speak on C-span quite awhile ago. She was awesome. It's an absolute shame what happened. Probably one of the brightest in the entire region.
don't want to spew hatred for a dead person...but the fact is
the woman was wanted for looting Pakistan....just check her cases pending in courts internationally....charismatic maybe but we should recollect why being prime minister twice she never did the stuff she talked about in the media....infact you must have heard in her interview mentioning how she will eradicate the extremists much like gulliani and 9/11....she was pandering the US government...well why didnt the media ask her why the Taliban in the 90's became powerful under her rule....and why do you think she was allowed by Musharraf into the country with all the cases against her....because she was the darling of the west.....
Most really
effective thieves are charismatic.
I Knew
sorry for dupe post. Man I hate gates' crappy browser. Forced to use this piece if junk IE at work. Can't wait to get home to use firefox.
On the MSNBC this morning,
after getting off with Dr. Paul the person said now heading to the top stories of the day, I think there is a Paris Hilton story in the headlines, you can talk about that one.
thats a paraphrase above but it went something like that.
Just goes to show how stupid thay think the general public is or at least ther viewer base.
I interpreted it
That the female was going to allow David to talk about something that was a little less volatile. He seemed to be smoking out his ears and foaming at the mouth. I think he embarrassed her. I only heard audio, but got the general idea.
I knew of her..
She and her family have been around for quite a while..
She was OUSTED in the 90's.. and CHARGED WITH CORRUPTION IN GOVERNMENT...
how quickly they must forget and forgive...
Kinda like John McCain... I went to wash to change wash but wash changed me.... BUT... NOW I'M REFORMED
On the MSNBC this morning,
after getting off with Dr. Paul the person said now heading to the top stories of the day, I think there is a Paris Hilton story in the headlines, you can talk about that one.
thats a paraphrase above but it went something like that.
Just goes to show how stupid thay think the general public is or at least ther viewer base.
well geez..
Not only did i know about her.. but i saw the assassination coming.. who didn't? right before the election.. this is Musharaf's way of eliminating competition.. because now there is no one from her party left who will step up and fill her position that they know of..
i really hope the elections are not cancelled...
-Lady Liberty
~Let Freedom Ring~