A left-wing newspaper convenes a forum of (primarily) left-wing commentators and they like the left-wing candidate that non-Americans know the most about.
Coming up next on the Obvious News Channel, will some evangelical Christians vote for Mike Huckabee? We'll find out! And new facts on John McCain you may not know - he served in the Vietnam war! : )
"Whenever I despair, I remember that the way of truth and love has always won. There may be tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they may seem invincible, but in the end, they always fail. Think of it: always"
Gandhi
"the secret history of the American empire"....a must read to understand Dr Paul's ideas of non intervention....
Please people read that book....it should be on the must read list....
Mike
Who is Ron Paul? I am Ron Paul! We are Ron Paul!
"Fire Team for Freedom" on RonPaulRadio.com
Mondays and Wednesdays 10pm EST
or visit www.mikeandjake.com
Is that when "whats best for Israel" is talked about - its forgotten that what they are really saying is :
What's best for the STATE of Israel, not the PEOPLE of Israel. There is a difference, which in this case - should always be expressly stated. Most pro-Israel lobbies are in effect pro STATE OF ISRAEL ..... ie Pro Mossad Pro War, Pro Military, Pro reorientation of middle east to suit statist objectives etc.
When talking about problematic groups of people it helps to be very specific. This whole world is suffering from the SUPER RICH ELITE imposing their will to the expense of the rest. This eventually and inevitably results in chaos and war, which we are seeing now. I say the key is for every INDIVIDUAL, regardless of backround to stand up against this "evil way of life" as that of the SUPER RICH ELITE would impose upon planet Earth, YOURS and MY home.
Haaretz is a left-liberal Israeli newspaper. Shmuel Rosner decided, months ago, to put together a panel of people who would evaluate the U.S. Presidential candidates, and then opine about which would be best for Israel. Ron Paul was left off the list, probably because at the time the panel was begun, he was quite low in the polls.
Actually, Mr. Rosner subsequently has written in the same newspaper a very reasonable article about Dr. Paul, that, while not supporting him, certainly treats him fairly, and certainly not with any venom.
I don't believe the people posting on this thread have ever read Haaretz or Mr. Rosner's post. I don't think that this thread is germane to the campaign.
Hi. I'm usually on the same side of discussions that you are, but this time I must disagree.
This IS germane, because Jews VOTE. We (the Paul campaign) have to come to an agreement with Jewish voters who are unconvinced as to the merits of RP's candidancy.
This thread is NOT a slam on Jews, Israel, or Haaretz.
It is a discussion of how we can agree that Dr. Paul IS on the side of the angels regarding Israel.
Especially in light of the smears ($500.00) of late, we need to be clear on our message to American Jewish voters.
Yes, I am aware that MANY Jews are pro-paul. It's the non-committed Jewish voters that concern me.
I have spent time in Israel and I know that most Israelis are peaceful, people just like Americans. It is like saying that 100% of Americans support GWB. Most Israeilis just wanna live and have fun just like us so do not confuse the country with the people. Most Israelis I met were antiwar. So stop judgin'
-A liberal for Ron Paul.
We need to stop looking at groups of people and start looking at the individual. What level of freedom these individuals have? Whether they live in Palestine or Israel or in the mix that is Jerusalem, so on. Look at the individual to try and understand the issues. If we zoom out and see groups of people we won't see the individual anymore. The individual disappears. That's how governments see things, from a distance.
Does that make sense? What seems to hurt humans is the way the individual is misunderstood and confused with a label attached to them.
On both sides of the fence, vis. Israel and Palestine, there is a lack of individual freedom and this is a problem that needs a solution. However, like here, the proposed solutions are dictated down from the State of Israel, by the Hamas, by the UN, by the US, so on.
No wonder it is all such a mess. Too much interference!
most people are peaceful, and just want to live their lives....it is those who seek to control us that are the problem! if people were educated about the philosophy of liberty, then no reasonable person would go against freedom, and, in fact, they would all whole-heartedly defend it! Why else did the people of the various states ratify the constitution so easily? The people of the world need to come together and realize the CAUSE of what divides us! it is all perpetrated by the state in order to give an excuse for intervention into our private affairs......the people of the world need to come together and realize our true enemy - OUR GOVERNMENTS AND THE POWERFUL INTERESTS THAT CONTROL THOSE GOVERNMENTS.........we are on the brink of slavery, we need Ron Paul, we need the Constitution, and we need people to WAKE UP!
every time I say something against Israel it makes me an anti Semite...
but the fact of the matter is that they are occupying Palestinian land and killing the Palestinians with the tanks that we finance....while the Palestinian school boys throw rocks on the tanks... and Fox News smears the people of Palestine fighting for their independence as radical's....I wonder what Fox News would mention George Washington if he was fighting today for our independence....
But a sad sad article on the whole...what else can we expect from Zionists...
No Ron Paul :(.....sad that my taxes go to that country....
the American media rarely reports on what happens to the Palestinians, so a lot of Americans have no idea how devastating it is for the Palestinians under the brutal occupation. Israeli Jews speak out a great deal about what their govt (not necessarily the people) are doing to the Palestinians.
I think most people who post here are aware of the unfairness of the knee-jerk reaction of calling those who criticize Israeli policies "anti-semites" ;
they SHOULD understand it, anyway, because it's akin to the neo-con and similar types here at home calling those of us who criticize our govt policies "unpatriotic".
or the same TYPE of people think that they know what's best for Israel as think they know what's best for the U.S.
And they are ALL WRONG!!!
Israel suffers from the same disease we do.
A warmongering elite who profit from the mass death of the poor cannon fodder they con into fighting their wars. Not to mention that inconvenient "collateral damage", i.e. masses of dead and maimed civilians.
Israel is in fact surrounded by hostile neighbors, and they don't have a "warmongering elite". Truth to tell, Israel is constantly trying to placate the terrorists, and this is one of the worst things they could possible do to the Palestinian people.
Imagine if we had left the Nazi regime in place at the end of world war two. That's about the situation the Palestinans are in. Since Israel has been prevented from dealing a decisive defeat to Hamas, Hezbollah, and Fatah by US interference, the same thugs have been ruling the Palistinians for decades.
Arafat was deathly afraid of having to actually run a country, because without the constant war against Israel, someone might actually ask him where all the money went. That's why he kept throwing monkey wrenches into the peace negotiations.
Add to that, the effect of the other Arab kleptocrats who need to focus their people's attention on Israel as a bogeyman, so they won't think too much about why they're putting up with living under a dictatorship (and yes, the Saudi monarchy is a dictatorship.)
-jcr
"The problem with trying to child-proof the world, is that it makes people neglect the far more important task of world-proofing the child." -- Hugh Daniel
.... if another nation came in and took away your land, your city, your state... the land you and your parents and grandparents and so on have lived on for hundreds of years.
The biggest issue here is that our govt is entangled in BOTH sides, and should get out of there altogether.
The Palestinians had an election, and they chose Hamas. The US needs to stay out of the matter and stop taking sides (non-interventionism at its best... not meddling when you really, really want to - not favoring one side over another).
Let the Palestinians (and surrounding Arab nations) work things out with Israel. The Arab nations just recently offered recognition which Israel has sought - let the US stay out of it and maybe the Arabs and Israelis can make peace.
.check the other massacres against Palestinians people who don't even have an army....the reason Fatah was developed was b/c Israel has an army and the Palestinians don't ...how do you think the people should protect themselves....why were their militias during our War of Independence?....to protect the people against the british who had an organized army....
If the israelis had a beef with the Nazi's they should be sorting problems with the Germans ....why suddenly pop up in the middle east to create a land by evicting and throwing people of their land....
I recognize that Israel is the freest, most decent country in the region. BUT.....
They CANNOT make the radical Islamists go away.
They would have to annihilate generation after generation of young men. And THAT (Please understand where I'm coming from) is genocide.
I KNOW it's scary and difficult. The settlers knew that in '48. BUT Israel HAS to come to an accommodation with the Palistinians.
It's not a matter of justice. It's a matter of survival.
But maybe it IS a matter of justice. I feel that the man in the street Israeli may be a little more simpatico with his Palestinian brother than the propaganda implies. wishful thinking??
for a few years at a time. The Arabs, Muslims, and Jews that get along with one another are the ones who are not swayed by the controlist and they do believe in individual liberty. Unfortunately, there are Arabs, Muslims, Jews, Americans and Christians, athiest, etc; that do push their will upon people just to keep tensions high. And most, if not all of these pushers of tension are control freaks on a bad powertrip. I love Israel, and I certainly feel bad that our foreign policy actually hurts them. Geez, now that I think about it, our New World Order foreign policy hurts everybody except for the rich and powerful. We really need Ron Paul in the Whitehouse.
The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny. James Madison
genocide is already occurring in Palestine with the arms we provide....
funny you call removing and evicting people from their land and making ILLEGAL settlements as being free and decent....
besides this thread has nothing to do with Ron Paul so close it...besides it just makes me sad that some paulites haven't done their research....
That, my friend, is a baldfaced lie. The closest that the Palestinians have ever come to a genocide came from the king of Jordan, not from Israel. Look up what "black september" means.
The fact is that Israel takes great care to limit civilian causalties, both among their own people and the people in the neighboring areas from which the terrorist attacks are launched. If they were in fact as evil as you pretend, then there wouldn't have been any palestinians after the Yom Kippur war.
A decisive defeat is one where the enemy's leadership is replaced, such as the United States did to Japan and Germany.
The radical islamists are a relatively recent phenomenon in Palestinian politics. Fatah was always more oriented towards installing Arafat as a typical secular Arab kleptocrat like Assad or Nasser. The support for the islamists among the Palestinians is more a matter of wanting "anyone but the PLO" than a desire to live under a theocracy.
If we withdraw both US funding and US interference from the Middle East, and let the chips fall where they may, it may remain a mess, or it just may be that the thugs who rule Israel's neighbors realize that they can't keep sending US tax dollars to their swiss accounts, so they'd better reconsider normalizing trade with the strongest economy in their region.
So what?
A left-wing newspaper convenes a forum of (primarily) left-wing commentators and they like the left-wing candidate that non-Americans know the most about.
Coming up next on the Obvious News Channel, will some evangelical Christians vote for Mike Huckabee? We'll find out! And new facts on John McCain you may not know - he served in the Vietnam war! : )
And they complain about racism? Give me a break!
They sure don't practice what they preach!
"Whenever I despair, I remember that the way of truth and love has always won. There may be tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they may seem invincible, but in the end, they always fail. Think of it: always"
Gandhi
john Perkins...
"the secret history of the American empire"....a must read to understand Dr Paul's ideas of non intervention....
Please people read that book....it should be on the must read list....
If your Jewish/Israeli I think you should watch this video....
John Perkins Confessions of a Economic Hitman
"Israel is being used"
http://video.google.com/v...
Mike
Who is Ron Paul? I am Ron Paul! We are Ron Paul!
"Fire Team for Freedom" on RonPaulRadio.com
Mondays and Wednesdays 10pm EST
or visit www.mikeandjake.com
One of the interesting things........
Is that when "whats best for Israel" is talked about - its forgotten that what they are really saying is :
What's best for the STATE of Israel, not the PEOPLE of Israel. There is a difference, which in this case - should always be expressly stated. Most pro-Israel lobbies are in effect pro STATE OF ISRAEL ..... ie Pro Mossad Pro War, Pro Military, Pro reorientation of middle east to suit statist objectives etc.
When talking about problematic groups of people it helps to be very specific. This whole world is suffering from the SUPER RICH ELITE imposing their will to the expense of the rest. This eventually and inevitably results in chaos and war, which we are seeing now. I say the key is for every INDIVIDUAL, regardless of backround to stand up against this "evil way of life" as that of the SUPER RICH ELITE would impose upon planet Earth, YOURS and MY home.
Pointless, baiting thread
What is the point of this post?
Haaretz is a left-liberal Israeli newspaper. Shmuel Rosner decided, months ago, to put together a panel of people who would evaluate the U.S. Presidential candidates, and then opine about which would be best for Israel. Ron Paul was left off the list, probably because at the time the panel was begun, he was quite low in the polls.
Actually, Mr. Rosner subsequently has written in the same newspaper a very reasonable article about Dr. Paul, that, while not supporting him, certainly treats him fairly, and certainly not with any venom.
I don't believe the people posting on this thread have ever read Haaretz or Mr. Rosner's post. I don't think that this thread is germane to the campaign.
hey Doc,
Hi. I'm usually on the same side of discussions that you are, but this time I must disagree.
This IS germane, because Jews VOTE. We (the Paul campaign) have to come to an agreement with Jewish voters who are unconvinced as to the merits of RP's candidancy.
This thread is NOT a slam on Jews, Israel, or Haaretz.
It is a discussion of how we can agree that Dr. Paul IS on the side of the angels regarding Israel.
Especially in light of the smears ($500.00) of late, we need to be clear on our message to American Jewish voters.
Yes, I am aware that MANY Jews are pro-paul. It's the non-committed Jewish voters that concern me.
Well, but the Haaretz article does not even mention Paul.
So what's the point of the thread? That's all I'm saying.
Israelis are just people.
I have spent time in Israel and I know that most Israelis are peaceful, people just like Americans. It is like saying that 100% of Americans support GWB. Most Israeilis just wanna live and have fun just like us so do not confuse the country with the people. Most Israelis I met were antiwar. So stop judgin'
-A liberal for Ron Paul.
I believe Ron Paul gave us a good way to see things
We need to stop looking at groups of people and start looking at the individual. What level of freedom these individuals have? Whether they live in Palestine or Israel or in the mix that is Jerusalem, so on. Look at the individual to try and understand the issues. If we zoom out and see groups of people we won't see the individual anymore. The individual disappears. That's how governments see things, from a distance.
Does that make sense? What seems to hurt humans is the way the individual is misunderstood and confused with a label attached to them.
On both sides of the fence, vis. Israel and Palestine, there is a lack of individual freedom and this is a problem that needs a solution. However, like here, the proposed solutions are dictated down from the State of Israel, by the Hamas, by the UN, by the US, so on.
No wonder it is all such a mess. Too much interference!
JB
Who's judgin'?? this post
Who's judgin'??
this post merely linked to a site concerned with Israeli issues. Not judgin', just concerned. These are people we want to have as ALLIES.
EXACTLY!!!
most people are peaceful, and just want to live their lives....it is those who seek to control us that are the problem! if people were educated about the philosophy of liberty, then no reasonable person would go against freedom, and, in fact, they would all whole-heartedly defend it! Why else did the people of the various states ratify the constitution so easily? The people of the world need to come together and realize the CAUSE of what divides us! it is all perpetrated by the state in order to give an excuse for intervention into our private affairs......the people of the world need to come together and realize our true enemy - OUR GOVERNMENTS AND THE POWERFUL INTERESTS THAT CONTROL THOSE GOVERNMENTS.........we are on the brink of slavery, we need Ron Paul, we need the Constitution, and we need people to WAKE UP!
Yes
The expansive state is the problem!
Liberty is the answer for every individual on earth.
All people everywhere need to rise up and defend liberty and freedom!
The masters hate it and want to control WE THE PEOPLE. But the power is with us! We must reassert this now.
you know I am sick of the fact that
every time I say something against Israel it makes me an anti Semite...
but the fact of the matter is that they are occupying Palestinian land and killing the Palestinians with the tanks that we finance....while the Palestinian school boys throw rocks on the tanks... and Fox News smears the people of Palestine fighting for their independence as radical's....I wonder what Fox News would mention George Washington if he was fighting today for our independence....
But a sad sad article on the whole...what else can we expect from Zionists...
No Ron Paul :(.....sad that my taxes go to that country....
but you have to remember
the American media rarely reports on what happens to the Palestinians, so a lot of Americans have no idea how devastating it is for the Palestinians under the brutal occupation. Israeli Jews speak out a great deal about what their govt (not necessarily the people) are doing to the Palestinians.
I think most people who post here are aware of the unfairness of the knee-jerk reaction of calling those who criticize Israeli policies "anti-semites" ;
they SHOULD understand it, anyway, because it's akin to the neo-con and similar types here at home calling those of us who criticize our govt policies "unpatriotic".
The same people
or the same TYPE of people think that they know what's best for Israel as think they know what's best for the U.S.
And they are ALL WRONG!!!
Israel suffers from the same disease we do.
A warmongering elite who profit from the mass death of the poor cannon fodder they con into fighting their wars. Not to mention that inconvenient "collateral damage", i.e. masses of dead and maimed civilians.
You're a bit off the mark there.
Israel is in fact surrounded by hostile neighbors, and they don't have a "warmongering elite". Truth to tell, Israel is constantly trying to placate the terrorists, and this is one of the worst things they could possible do to the Palestinian people.
Imagine if we had left the Nazi regime in place at the end of world war two. That's about the situation the Palestinans are in. Since Israel has been prevented from dealing a decisive defeat to Hamas, Hezbollah, and Fatah by US interference, the same thugs have been ruling the Palistinians for decades.
Arafat was deathly afraid of having to actually run a country, because without the constant war against Israel, someone might actually ask him where all the money went. That's why he kept throwing monkey wrenches into the peace negotiations.
Add to that, the effect of the other Arab kleptocrats who need to focus their people's attention on Israel as a bogeyman, so they won't think too much about why they're putting up with living under a dictatorship (and yes, the Saudi monarchy is a dictatorship.)
-jcr
"The problem with trying to child-proof the world, is that it makes people neglect the far more important task of world-proofing the child." -- Hugh Daniel
you would be hostile too
.... if another nation came in and took away your land, your city, your state... the land you and your parents and grandparents and so on have lived on for hundreds of years.
The biggest issue here is that our govt is entangled in BOTH sides, and should get out of there altogether.
The Palestinians had an election, and they chose Hamas. The US needs to stay out of the matter and stop taking sides (non-interventionism at its best... not meddling when you really, really want to - not favoring one side over another).
Let the Palestinians (and surrounding Arab nations) work things out with Israel. The Arab nations just recently offered recognition which Israel has sought - let the US stay out of it and maybe the Arabs and Israelis can make peace.
I
no warmongering elite????
google sabra and shatila massacre ...
http://hrw.org/english/do....
.check the other massacres against Palestinians people who don't even have an army....the reason Fatah was developed was b/c Israel has an army and the Palestinians don't ...how do you think the people should protect themselves....why were their militias during our War of Independence?....to protect the people against the british who had an organized army....
If the israelis had a beef with the Nazi's they should be sorting problems with the Germans ....why suddenly pop up in the middle east to create a land by evicting and throwing people of their land....
Define "decisive
Define "decisive defeat".
Look, I am pro-Israel.
I recognize that Israel is the freest, most decent country in the region. BUT.....
They CANNOT make the radical Islamists go away.
They would have to annihilate generation after generation of young men. And THAT (Please understand where I'm coming from) is genocide.
I KNOW it's scary and difficult. The settlers knew that in '48. BUT Israel HAS to come to an accommodation with the Palistinians.
It's not a matter of justice. It's a matter of survival.
But maybe it IS a matter of justice. I feel that the man in the street Israeli may be a little more simpatico with his Palestinian brother than the propaganda implies. wishful thinking??
I've been to Israel several times
for a few years at a time. The Arabs, Muslims, and Jews that get along with one another are the ones who are not swayed by the controlist and they do believe in individual liberty. Unfortunately, there are Arabs, Muslims, Jews, Americans and Christians, athiest, etc; that do push their will upon people just to keep tensions high. And most, if not all of these pushers of tension are control freaks on a bad powertrip. I love Israel, and I certainly feel bad that our foreign policy actually hurts them. Geez, now that I think about it, our New World Order foreign policy hurts everybody except for the rich and powerful. We really need Ron Paul in the Whitehouse.
The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny. James Madison
freest most decent country in the region....
genocide is already occurring in Palestine with the arms we provide....
funny you call removing and evicting people from their land and making ILLEGAL settlements as being free and decent....
besides this thread has nothing to do with Ron Paul so close it...besides it just makes me sad that some paulites haven't done their research....
"genocide is already
"genocide is already occurring in Palestine"
That, my friend, is a baldfaced lie. The closest that the Palestinians have ever come to a genocide came from the king of Jordan, not from Israel. Look up what "black september" means.
The fact is that Israel takes great care to limit civilian causalties, both among their own people and the people in the neighboring areas from which the terrorist attacks are launched. If they were in fact as evil as you pretend, then there wouldn't have been any palestinians after the Yom Kippur war.
-jcr
You misunderstand me.
A decisive defeat is one where the enemy's leadership is replaced, such as the United States did to Japan and Germany.
The radical islamists are a relatively recent phenomenon in Palestinian politics. Fatah was always more oriented towards installing Arafat as a typical secular Arab kleptocrat like Assad or Nasser. The support for the islamists among the Palestinians is more a matter of wanting "anyone but the PLO" than a desire to live under a theocracy.
If we withdraw both US funding and US interference from the Middle East, and let the chips fall where they may, it may remain a mess, or it just may be that the thugs who rule Israel's neighbors realize that they can't keep sending US tax dollars to their swiss accounts, so they'd better reconsider normalizing trade with the strongest economy in their region.
-jcr
The same people
are NOT all Jewish!
I know plenty of Jewish folks who feel as used and conned as we do.
(in case you thought I was making some sort of anti-semitic comment).