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Liberty Day Challenge 2012

Hi,

I am not new to forums, and I will play nice, but the things I publish on forums are routinely censored, and therefore I routinely back up my work on my own forum, so as to keep the record straight on exactly what is being censored.

This Liberty Day Challenge 2012 is a simple idea along the lines of helping further the cause of Liberty, and since Liberty is the same cause championed by Ron Paul, it logically follows that this is a good place to combine such forces.

Before explaining what exactly is the Liberty Day Challenge 2012 I see an opportunity to lend support to Ron Paul by way of communicating my own experiences – briefly.

Very briefly

I ran for congress in 1996.

In the context of my experiences involving Ron Paul I can say with confidence that his example was part of my inspiration to run for Congress in 1996. Without Ron Paul's example in congress that thing called congress is almost a total loss, and worse, it is legalized crime. That is literally written in Common Sense. I can quote the relevant words if challenged.

Previous to my own bid for congress I was active in learning about Liberty, and communicating the things I have learned concerning the cause of Liberty, and my first contact with Ron Paul was through message boards on the internet in the 1980s. At that time I had been gaining a reputation as a “conspiracy theorist” and it was startling to me to read one of the messages on the message board authored by this person named Ron Paul. Ron Paul was saying much of the things I was saying, and I can confirm that Ron Paul is still saying the same things, no flip, no flop, same messages which were and are examples, or evidences, of someone who supports the cause of Liberty.

Liberty for all: not just a few gaining “Liberty” at the expense of the many.

It was startling at that time since Ron Paul, as it turned out, was, and is, a member of congress.

That was absurd to me at that time: 1980s.

Since those early days on my road to Liberty, which is merely life for anyone who does not become a criminal, with or without the sanctions offered by criminals running government, since those early days I joined, or in some way tried to connect to: The John Birch Society, The Libertarian Party, United We Stand (Ross Perot), Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, the Mises Institute, The National Rifle Association, Lew Rockwell, The Liberty Project, Prison Planet (Alex Jones), and The Real News Network.

I have starting petitions, delivered petitions, and ran myself into bad heath working to support a family.

Now I have this Liberty Day Challenge 2012 idea, and coincidentally or not, there is a similar effort being championed by Ron Paul, if I understand his intentions.

Currently there is much power flowing to Ron Paul, call it political capital, or whatever works for you. I see life as a power struggle, and for whatever reason anyone connects to Ron Paul, in any way, money, support, whatever, power flows from the individual to Ron Paul, that is happening, measurably, and the measure can be accurate. Some connect and intend to take power from Ron Paul, that is not me. The net result, it seems, is a measurably more powerful Ron Paul - so far.

Few people I know can come close to offering a challenge to any of the ideas I have so far understood to be Ron Paul’s ideas on Liberty. I can. But that may or may not get in the way of people, or The People, moving closer to Liberty, and moving further away from what I call Legal Crime. I don't argue, facts speak if people listen.

A more powerful Ron Paul moving toward Liberty is a very good thing for anyone currently suffering from the powers that destroy Liberty - not so good for those criminals running what may have once been a Republic.

Onto: The Liberty Day Challenge 2012

I tried to be brief with my introduction, and I will try to be brief with an explanation of The Liberty Day Challenge 2012, much will be missing when messages are pared down to sound bites.

One of the things Ron Paul supports, to my understanding at least, is competition in money markets, and that is the basis, or foundation, or principle behind The Liberty Day Challenge 2012.

The idea is to begin inventing, constructing, producing, and maintaining competitive legal money and have those competitive legal money ideas, and those competitive legal money products ready by July 4th 2012, to compete with The Federal Reserve Currency Issue, the dollar, which is a Legal Monopoly Money, and is therefore not subject to the forces supplied by people who compete.

The Liberty Day Challenge 2012 idea, is an idea that understands and intends to address the power of numbers. It will take a powerful number of people making competitive choices to overpower the number of people choosing the monopoly power. That does need to be understood - fully.

Absent is the force of competition that forces quality up, and costs down, as is the case if any market even remotely resembles a Free Market.

A Free Market is defined by the fact that there are choices, and therefore people choose higher quality over lower quality, and people choose lower cost over higher cost, in a Free Market, and that is what defines a Free Market: choices.

An enforced monopoly, enforced by criminals with badges, or enforced by criminals without badges, the same thing is defined, in real time, in a monopoly, legal or otherwise: no choices.

No choices = no force that forces quality up and cost down.

How can you tell if it is a monopoly, with no choices?

Quality goes down. Costs go up. Inexplicably?

What is the relative quality of the dollar compared to the quality of the dollar in, say, 1860? And it does not make any sense, to me, to compare the dollar to worse fraudulent and despotic monopoly money issues, the idea is to race to the top, not the bottom.

What is the relative cost of the dollar today, compared to yesterday? Some people can argue over what is or is not the true measure of cost – I won’t argue. What would be the point?

The Liberty Day Challenge 2012 idea is to get competition on the calendar, and make it happen by such and such a date, and the July 4th 2012 day was the July 4th 2011 date that past on by, without a choice in legal money being a choice; and therefore the obvious result: lower quality and higher cost (by accurate measure).

What has to happen between today and the day when the force of competition forces the quality of legal money up, and the cost of legal money down, in America?

Why wait for someone else to do it? If the question isn’t a vital question, then what is a vital question?

If the answer isn’t an accurate answer, the answer isn’t true.

Why settle for false, or fraudulent, stuff, when there can be an alternative?

That is sufficient, I think, to introduce the Topic, and see what happens.

My experience is such that, at least, some people will be inspired to use their brains, instead of merely being conduits for other people.

Note: In concert with this Challenge to the Legal Money Monopoly are examples such as The Liberty Dollar, PayPal (at the beginning), A Gold money issue in Utah, Labor Dollars here and there, and in history there were 2 cases of Whiskey used by The People as money, in direct competition with the legal crime money issue in those examples. More competition means more force applied in the effort to bring quality up, and cost down.

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On Money and Liberty

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31805.htm

None of them move without a paycheck denominated in dollars, and this harkens me back to the lost billions of 100 dollar bills, hundreds of tons of cash, "lost" in Iraq, and the trillions, thousands of tons, lost in the 911 buildings that mysteriously fell into holes in the ground.

My list:

Ron Paul
Rand Paul (Benevolent Dictator wannabe)
Jesse Ventura
Alex Jones
Gerald Celente
Pepe Escobar

Friends of Liberty are not cut from the same mold, it is a competition, why would you ever bet on the losers?

Selling short?

Put options?

Suckers!

Your hard earned earnings are flowing to the very people who are causing Economic Collapse, World War III, and they mean (and I do mean mean) to maneuver American Military Forces into a trap, to be defeated, and you are happy to pay for it?

Seriously?

Joe

Failsafe Collateral - Our Good Name

Since all currencies are based in trust, the perception we humans have that this thing we've agreed on to be a unit of exchange, be it gold, government-backed paper, tobacco, will have value to someone else in the future. When trust is broken it is difficult to earn back. You wouldn't trust a gold dealer who sells you a fake coin - he's either an idiot or a thief. Avoid either way.

Aside from the fruits of his current labor, all anyone can really offer another is their potential value in the future. Between the material wealth and the reputational wealth a person builds in their life the first is obviously due to the second.

A currency based on the good name and good word of a cotillion of Ron Paul supporters, who understand economics, understand people, and aren't going anywhere!

9-11 was a panda job.

False and True Competiton

"Aside from the fruits of his current labor, all anyone can really offer another is their potential value in the future. Between the material wealth and the reputational wealth a person builds in their life the first is obviously due to the second."

In the effort to communicate a competitive perspective I found it useful to discriminate between 3 general groups of people and one of those groups are joined by people who act along the lines of "live and let live" or "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

Here, in quotes, are more words that can be indicators of someone belonging to that group of people and may I play a word game competitively, honestly, without any intent to deceive, merely a word game used to illustrate a point?

Suppose that the group who earn their way through life upon their trustworthy reputation are Friends of Liberty.

Now for the word game.

Friends of Liberty = Workers.

Workers work power and the result is more power than the power at the start of the work which results in excess power or surplus wealth.

If no one works there is no wealth.

I can add one more word, so as to work toward bringing all The Friends of Liberty under one Tent, or inclusive within the defining of The Friends of Liberty.

Entrepreneurs = workers = The Friends of Liberty = existing without resort to deceit, threats of aggressive violence, and aggressive violence upon the innocent.

To be even clearer, please, do not confuse The Friends of Liberty with the other competitive people who define their integrity, and their reputations, and their lives in a different way compared to The Friends of Liberty as such:

Friends of Legal Crime earn their place in this group when they do, in fact, resort to deceit, resort to threats of aggressive violence, and resort to acts of aggressive violence upon the innocent.

If there happens to be an individual entrepreneur and/or worker or two, or three, or a whole group of connected Friends of Liberty working with power and ending up with more power then those Friends of Liberty could then be the source of power for Friends of Legal Crime, but not before, since the absence of power to steal would require someone somewhere to actually produce more from less.

Back to the welcome comment:

"Aside from the fruits of his current labor, all anyone can really offer another is their potential value in the future. Between the material wealth and the reputational wealth a person builds in their life the first is obviously due to the second."

Deceit, threats of violence, and aggressive violence upon the innocent is the competitor in place that has taken, actually stolen, all the trust out of all the producers in America, or if that has not quite happened fully yet, that is the direction that We The People are on currently because the connecting medium, which is Legal Monopoly Money, connects all The Friends of Liberty, honest workers, honest reputational entrepreneurs, good, kind, moral, people, all, and all as one group are connected to all those criminals made Legal, through that One Money System of accountability, which is a one way street, or Dictatorship.

If you produce anything of value you are connected and your value produced will be stolen from you by people who have made stealing Legal for them while, at the same time, you will be punished for refusing to be victim to such theft, you will be falsely convicted of theft called tax evasion or you will be convicted of theft called money laundering if you do anything that may work to disconnect from their ongoing crime in progress.

The victims are guilty of being victims.

The criminals are rewarded for the crime of making their crimes legal, and TRUST is now TERROR, as each one of us can TRUST that each other one of us may turn us in so as to have one more person ahead in the line into the gas chambers, the meat grinders, and the torture chambers that we, collectively, buy with our dimes, and we, collectively, work to make, in our formerly good names.

There is no fence other than the illusion of one, to sit on, while countless living beings, souls, march off to their doom, on our dimes, and in our names, while it is our turn to be backing The World Reserve Monopoly Currency Extortion Racket De Jure (Might making Right).

When it is no longer our turn to be the "good guys" while "we spread democracy" and the Chinese are now collecting on bad bets, it will be our time to scramble under rocks when the fence vanishes, or turns into barbed wire, razor wire, torture chambers on each block, and piles of rotting corpses. Bridges blown, hospitals leveled, snipers shooting anything that moves, the whole 9 yards.

Pay.

There is no or else.

"Aside from the fruits of his current labor, all anyone can really offer another is their potential value in the future. Between the material wealth and the reputational wealth a person builds in their life the first is obviously due to the second."

Who is making money working on Drones, deploying them, etc.?

Who is making money speculating on dollar denominated corporate take overs and corporate raids, and derivatives?

Who, exactly, is on the receiving end of the Score Board?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

A store owner works his register today and the 5th customer is Ben Bernanke wanting to buy a basket of groceries for a good home cooked meal and Ben offers his personal credit card to the honest store owner.

Ben claims that his credit is based upon the good faith and credit of the American people, so he, and his ilk, can write themselves a check for as much Legal Purchasing Power, as everyone else (using dollars) combined in 2008, which they did, and it is on their own Publik Access Official Web Page (not the second set of books hidden from the Victims/Public), so what can every single honest working entrepreneur in America do?

Take the card from Ben, take out a pair of scissors from the drawer next to the cash register, and cut the card, tell Ben to go back to all the shelves and put back all those items or Ben will be no longer allowed in the store with or without honest money.

Next.

Joe

Liberty Challenge

I think I have figured it out. With the Healthcare mandate something came to mind. It is not just the [IL]Legal Monopoly Currency that Binds us to the Legal Criminals. It is also that number which we have each been issued. I say July 4, 2012 we all take to the streets in mass demonstration and burn those numbers never to be used again…

I fear that by saying such a thing I am going to get myself in big trouble. But we must push back. Is Celente’s forum up and running yet?

Ties to God

You can see the connection between right and wrong as behaving according to God (Jesus/Bible) or failing those instructions, which is fine as far as I am concerned because the result is the same as anyone else reaching for the same goals of right and wrong.

The problem with collective action going any direction is the same problem as any one person going any direction: what if it is the wrong direction?

Burning Social Security cards work fine for some people while many other people may not find the idea to be anything close to the right thing.

If I could inspire everyone, on one day, to do the right thing, it would be to stop "providing the means by which we suffer" and that means, very specifically, stop using dollars produced by those people who have the one legal license to produce those dollars, and when that is done then The Friends of Liberty divorce themselves from those who collect war profits or We The People disconnect from The Friends of Legal Crime.

We cut their Credit Card where we pay all the bills and they spend all our productivity. What happens then, what do we do with all our productivity when we are no longer providing the means by which we suffer? We all go on vacation half the year and the other half of us host those vacationers during our working 6 months?

We are all victims according to those Legal Criminals and that Social Security card is much like a brand placed on cattle but some people don't mind that brand, and so there is a need to move deliberately, carefully, and peacefully in the right direction so as not to injure any innocent people who may need some time to get off their dependence upon war profits or Legal Crime and that is why a future date at which all The Friends of Liberty will no longer "provide the means by which we suffer", and that is why a future date when we will no longer use the one Legal Money, works, in the future, so as to allow everyone enough time, with enough notice, to pick the side you will stand firmly on, and to make preparations for that day, and to invent alternative legal monies now, and to make sure that everyone that wants to be a Friend of Liberty can be one, and make sure that everyone who refuses to stop earning by way of Legal Crime to be well accounted for, to be known from now until then, and thereby to be avoided by then.

Now is not Liberty Day.

We put Liberty Day on our Calenders.

We work to be well prepared, definitively prepared, by Liberty Day, our Day, because that is the Day we Liberate ourselves exactly in the way that we do so.

Now we have to get to work.

Then, on Liberty Day, we have earned it.

Between now and Liberty Day (July 4th 2012 is now much too soon), between now and the day all the Friends of Liberty will have their own competitive connections, including legal money, up and running, to replace any remaining connections to Legal Crime, and so let's get to work, but let's hold off on the event until everyone has time to adjust, and then on that day we will know that our numbers are sufficient, and growing, and the enemies, both foreign, and domestic, will know that their numbers are insufficient, and dwindling, as more and more power is kept by us, and less and less power is stolen from us, and on that Day, on Liberty Day, maybe July 4th 2013, we can know, because we made it so, that it is safe, right, peaceful, and possible, to simply start using our own, competitive, Legal, Money supplies, and we stop using the Legal Counterfeit stuff, because that is what we did, to make that happen, between now and then.

The Chinese will take notice, they will try to collect on their debts, more and more, as We The People, express exactly how many of us there are, and exactly how focused we are, and exactly how serious we are, as we invent, trade ideas, start producing, and even start using, in parallel, our own competitive monies, in Utah, in this city, in that county, here, and there, as The FED can't plug all the holes in the sieve, as word spreads, as the effort gains currency, and people adjust, and people adapt, and people who were dependent upon war for profits see the writing on the wall, and as die hard Legal Criminals remain as they are now, the sociopaths, the wannabe sociopaths, the liars, the bullies, the thieves, the torturers, the legal serial killers, all of them, grow weaker, and weaker, and they begin to feed on each other like rats backed into a corner, as their steady supply of ready victims dwindles to nothing, as their former victims learn, and do, opt out, and when our example spreads, to China, to The Middle East, what are the Legal Criminals going to be doing in those places, as their own Friends of Liberty PROBLEM erupts and forces them to adapt to new challenges, new competitions, and new efforts by their victims to no longer be "providing the means by which we" all "suffer"?

Why that is hard to see I have no idea.

http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoons/SmithM/2012/SmithM2...

Joe

Just a Dog

OK. I just wanted to opt out of the system. I guess I can't. I need to be patient. I do not want to be part of Nation State Healthcare. Jeff said burning my SS card was like burning a draft card. People still got drafted. I just wish I could get rid of my number. I don't care about the money I have paid in. They can have it. I want to be free. I don't want to be like a dog whose healthcare is planned by its owner. I will be patient. I hope people are working on currencies. But still I think as long as we all have involuntary numbers we will stay attached and controlled even if we don't use the monopoly money. Thank you for the funny, but not so funny cartoon. Thank you for indulging my whim with your careful reply.

Negative reinforcements

"But still I think as long as we all have involuntary numbers we will stay attached and controlled even if we don't use the monopoly money."

Here is where a Legal Criminal may smile broadly, saying to him or her self, "yes", the brainwashing is working.

Joe

Why?

Why? I feel I am acting out the 2 year old again, rudely (but enthusiastically) interrupting your kind reply on my Liberty/Death post, changing the subject, and now asking the never ending question, "why?"

But I ask because I do not understand why that number is not the key? Can you kindly explain how it does not bind us involuntarily to the system? How much time do we have left? I know you do not get the memos, but do we have time to plan? What if we all just quit using and giving that number. What if we all refused SS? What if we and employers would do the same? Wouldn't we all save a bundle. Why wouldn’t that be another hole in the dyke the Criminals could not plug along with the issuing of multiple competitive currencies? Imagine us all filing that means by which we suffer tax return without a SSN, LOL! How could it be the wrong direction?

Sorry to be so childish in my thought process, but I do not understand why...not.

From my competitive viewpoint

"But still I think as long as we all have involuntary numbers we will stay attached and controlled even if we don't use the monopoly money."

From my competitive viewpoint anything that diverts defensive thoughts that may lead to effective defensive actions against Legal Crime work to allow Legal Crime to perpetuate.

Try as I might there is no visible method by which Legal Crime can be avoided other than disconnecting from it. So the obvious thought required to lead to the obvious act required is to accurately identify that connection and then once that connection is found then those who will be disconnected disconnect it.

Those who won't be disconnected from it won't.

How many people are needed to make the act of disconnecting the Victims from the Legal Criminals real?

I am very confident in knowing that Legal Criminals monitor such things and they know when their power is being threatened by a sufficient number of people who would, if they knew better, disconnect from the crime in progress - made legal.

"But still I think as long as we all have involuntary numbers we will stay attached and controlled even if we don't use the monopoly money."

Are you saying that the money connection is superfluous, and therefore not an effective act required in the necessary work victims must do if victims are to become former victims?

Which connection between victims and Legal Criminals constitutes something less superfluous and therefore something required in the effort to disconnect the victims from the Legal Criminals so as to end the crime in progress made legal?

I could be wrong, sure, you have a better first step, or a better second step, a workable plan, a competitive plan, such as the burning of Social Security Cards first, and then a second step, or abandoning the not as competitive burning of SS Cards, your next effective step is to do what exactly?

There will be an effective act done by enough people when the connection is severed and Liberty prevails or that won't happen and Legal Crime will perpetuate for another 200 years, so what will that act be, or what will those acts be, by those former victims earning their Liberty?

"But I ask because I do not understand why that number is not the key?"

The point I made had to do with the number of people who constitute the total POWER that will not follow that act along on that course because those people want that Social Security Blanket.

That Social Security Number would be an entirely different thing if it were not Legally bound to The Dollar, and that would take some explaining to make the concept real in your mind - perhaps.

How about a deal you make with everyone in the group called The Union of Retired People covered with their Social Security Blanket.

You say, how about all of us going out and burning our Social Security Cards?

They say that you are nuts.

Now what?

Now, change that around, and instead of you going to them unarmed, you go to them with a list of names of people who will, on July 4th 2013, start using alternative, competitive, honest, accurate, valuable, real, accountable, money, and therefore the Social Security Blanket, which is tied Legally to The Dollar, will become worthless in time, so now your dealing with facts, not enforced fraud.

Listen, you say, please, I'm not a nut case conspiracy theorist, and I'm here for your benefit, to let you know, well ahead of time, that your Gravy Train is reaching the end of the line, so here is what you can do, if you want to get what you have earned in your life time. The Social Security Blanket was a deal done by Legal Criminals and their POWER is going to vanish when the house of cards comes tumbling down, which is going to happen one way or the other, so the list of names who are going to be using a competitive currency know this, and so we The Friends of Liberty, are preparing for that day that that Gray Train reaches the end of the line, so you need to prepare too, so how can we, make a deal, how can we get your Investments converted over to an honest money sooner, rather than too late?

If the Union of Social Security Blanket Retired People still say to you "Piss off nut case", then they ride their train to where it will go, and you did what you could to warn them concerning the actual facts of that train, and where it is going.

Social Security is a Dollar Denominated Legal Financial Product, so why can't it be converted to any other competitive legal money denomination based upon today's rate of conversion? Do it now, or lose out, the Dollar Denominated train is reaching the end of the line.

When it reaches the end of the line there may yet be a pay off to those holding the Social Security numbers, but that may be a trip to a gas chamber, and every one of those who call the Messenger Boys nut case conspiracy theorists can do so all the way through their gas chambers and into their mass graves, or not.

What is the or not?

"But I ask because I do not understand why that number is not the key? Can you kindly explain how it does not bind us involuntarily to the system?"

The False Front is the Denomination of Money in Fraudulent Dollars, the False Front covers something or there would be no need for a False Front with nothing behind it. The thing covered is a whole lot of actual people who actually worked and actually paid into an insurance fund. The False Front covers the crimes of taking all the value out of that Fund and investing it, making more money, or just spending it. How much is left? You don't know, I don't know, and the Union of Retired People probably don't know, because the Fund is covered up by the False Front, which is The Dollar Hegemony, which is run by people who are criminals, with badges, and so, reasonably, when those criminals with badges no longer get any POWER through their False Front, We The People, can find out exactly how much POWER is left in Social Security, convert it to honest money, and that will be what is there, in that Fund, left for those people who paid into it.

Everyone is happy.

Except the Legal Criminals who are now backed into a corner feeding on each other like rats since their steady supply of victims are dwindling to nothing but their own kind.

Don't you get it?

If The Union of Retired People insist on enforcing their Dollar Denominated False Front Covering their Fraudulent "investments", not willing to take the actual value of the actual investment for what it actually is, then who constitutes all the rats?

I don't need to smell a rat when they confess with their actions.

Call me a conspiracy theorist, sure, all the way into your gas chamber on to your mass grave, fine with me, but The Friends of Liberty are getting off that train.

"How much time do we have left? I know you do not get the memos, but do we have time to plan? What if we all just quit using and giving that number. What if we all refused SS?"

"We" is you, I, and a lot of mice in your pocket?

Either the victims continue to be forced to be victims of Money Fraud, which makes the victims powerless because all our surplus power is stolen, or we start using our own honest money, our own accountable mediums of exchange, so that we can account for stolen wealth accurately, and that is the way it is, don't blame me.

Why question me?

It is what it is, if you don't see it, you don't, but I've been at this a long time, and there are reasons why you refuse to see it, or can't see it. Those reasons reside in your mind, not mine. I've shed the behavioral modification, the response conditioning, the manufactured consent, and the brain washing, so my brain isn't my worst enemy.

Night and Day:

A.
Friends of Liberty disconnect the connections to Legal Criminals.

B.
Not A

We are not disconnected now, we are connected, so what is the connection?

If we are not connected anymore are we still able to connect to each other, where all the Friends of Liberty can still work to make more out of less, to make life higher, and higher, and higher in quality, while at the same time making life lower, and lower, and lower in cost?

If Night turns into Day, and we are no longer connected to Legal Criminals, even if the Legal Criminals include The Union of Retired Social Security Blanket Owners Lobby protecting their One Legal Money Power, hiring Mittens or Obummer to keep their Gravy Train rolling off that cliff, hoping the cliff doesn't arrive while they are still alive, even so, Night still turns into Day.

Connection severed.

Liberty.

Now what?

Do we The Friends of Liberty still have the POWER to trade equitably and therefore do we still have a connection, and a competitive connection, and an accurate connection, and a higher quality connection, and a lower cost connection, connecting our equitable, productive, behinds, by some medium of exchange after Night turns into Day?

No.

Yes.

Why not before instead of after?

Why not make that accurate, useable, Crime Free, Free Market, Free Money Market, Free Competitive Money Market, connection now, since that connection will gradually force out the Legal Crime Money Monopoly and offer everyone the opportunity to opt out in time, before any sudden collapse, before the Legal Criminals can Control the Demolition of Liberty.

"What if we and employers would do the same?"

The Demon IRS is on that path, ask any employer, see if they are willing to take that route.

The concept of having a day in the future whereby we begin to count our number of people who will do something, on some future date, giving fair warning to anyone else, on that date we will do something, once out numbers are sufficient to constitute an effective power of defensive deterrence, we do that which we said we would do, on that date, so be preparing for that day now.

What do we do?

Burn our Social Security cards because they are connected to Legal Crime through Legally Enforced Criminal Fraud Dollar Denomination?

I think you miss the point. I think that you treat a symptom, not a cause. I think that there is no need to give the IRS an excuse to punish employers and I don't think that there is any need to leave old people out in the cold.

"Wouldn't we all save a bundle. Why wouldn’t that be another hole in the dyke the Criminals could not plug along with the issuing of multiple competitive currencies?"

Suppose we leave blank the actual actions to be done by all The Friends of Liberty on July 4th 2013 (since 2012 is now way too soon, not enough people signing on in name, in honor, in integrity, as individuals who declare their own independence) and I can offer my competitive option of what we do on that day, and you offer your competitive option of what we all do on that day, and I'll burn my Social Security card too, since I've already checked and the Judge said no, no Joe, just because you worked paying into it for 25 years, no, you don't get anything now, just because your health went south, and no one would hire an old broken down guy with a history of DVT, and PE, your "investment" isn't what you thought it was when you were sold the lie, to bad for you.

Sure, I'll burn the card too, why not? I have no stake in it, at this time. If The Friends of Liberty do come up with an Honest Legal Money option, or two, or three, by the time the Judge says here you go Joe, here is your benefits for your insurance payments as advertized, then the actual value of the investment may be realized at that time converted to a competitive money, since a Dollar Benefit from that Dollar Denominated Fund, at that time, will be worthless, like trying to buy groceries with Confederate Dollars, or Green Backs, or any other of the Hyper Inflated Fraud Money Issues that went down that same road.

"Imagine us all filing that means by which we suffer tax return without a SSN, LOL! How could it be the wrong direction?"

It is a competitive option, and competitive options have a way of defining themselves by their higher quality and lower cost, as more and more people realize the better path.

I was commenting on this:

"But still I think as long as we all have involuntary numbers we will stay attached and controlled even if we don't use the monopoly money."

That reads like inevitable dooms day, or what I call the Doom Day Parade. Hop on board, and why not get this thing going faster, I'm tired of waiting.

Joe

A Plan

I ask you because my inquiring mind wants to know…because I don’t know anyone else who has shed the mind control whom I could ask…because I respect your opinion because you have been at this a lot longer…because you have the mind to develop a competitive product...because you might answer me.

Yes, I probably liked my idea because it felt tangible. Something I could do without inventing, and because I am sick & tired of just about every form I fill out asking me for that number. I have a name. I am not a number. I am not a dog with a dog license. I might as well have that number tattooed on my arm like the Nazi’s did to their victims. I would gladly give up whatever stipend they are going to give me at whatever arbitrary age they arrive, if I am to even live to that age, if we (Jeff & I) could keep all of our earnings today.

What if Vicki no longer paid SS for the next how many ever years she plans to work and you, I mean she, could put that money into gold or something that gains currency instead of depreciates like the dollars socked away in SS do. We, I mean I, I mean me & the mice in my pocket, and any other consenting adult could give thru a voluntary tax to help support our SS dependent seniors with perhaps a small portion of the currency gain. The kids below us: They ain’t getting any anyways, so what do they have to lose by opting out? How about those businesses that don’t want to be subject to IRS punishment put their 8% or whatever it is these days directly into Senior pockets and forget the employer contribution to current employees under a certain age?.

How about that for a plan?

When we disconnect from the Dollar Homogeny will that do away with the IRS/SS/etc? Will I still need my number? Is that number being used for the developing competitive currencies? If so I would think long and hard about draining the swamp and being surrounded by alligators…from one dictator to the next in line.

And no, it is not my intent to head head-fast-long-and-quick toward the looming dooms day scenario. Who knows when that is. By all means we must do everything we can to garner Liberty for today and tomorrow and however long we have until that great day when the Prince of Peace will reign victoriously and no one that makes a lie will come into that great city.

Are the criminals already backed into a corner consuming each other?

When the student is ready to learn:

The teacher appears.

Or better yet when two students are ready to learn they can compare notes competitively and learn equitably from each other.

"How about that for a plan?"

You may be missing the point offered for your consideration. The symptom that you are treating is an Insurance Policy gone bad, and the cause or the "gone bad" part is traceable to a single cause, and all you have to do to find that single traceable cause is to follow the money to the source.

Follow the money to the source and you find the principle cause of why a simple insurance policy went bad, and then treat the cause, not the symptom.

You may be inspired to cut your head off to treat a headache when Monopoly Money Criminals create a Monopoly Health Insurance Cabal where the force of competition is removed and therefore quality plummets at the same time as costs skyrocket.

Doc?

Yes Bear?

I have a headache, so many bills, so little income, my head hurts.

Ok, Bear, lets check to see which treatments are covered by your ONE insurance provider, the all powerful provider of all things for all people, for the greater good, to save the children.

Lets

On line five in chapter eight volume 666 we have this prescription authorized by law for that ailment, ahhh, but lets be sure of one thing.

What?

Did you say that you had a headache?

Yes.

Here is your authorized prescription.

Decapitation?

Yup, says so right there, in black and white.

Your plan still uses the ONE LEGAL MONEY, and from my point of view I am inspired to ask you if there may be a better money, somewhere, so that the former victims choose higher quality today, and lower cost today, and even higher quality tomorrow, and even lower cost tomorrow, on and on, since better is better than worse, as a matter of fact. Why do you insist upon employing the fraudulent money, when the only thing worse in quality and the only thing higher in cost is the next Monopoly Money that will be issued by the same Cabal with a New False Front called World Bank or Fried Chicken the name merely hides the Criminals behind the name so really, really, a rat by any other name still stinks?

I smell the rat. Why don't you smell the rat?

"When we disconnect from the Dollar Homogeny will that do away with the IRS/SS/etc?"

That is the type of questions that move the thinking toward action, in my opinion, since people can start getting out their calculators and actually start doing the number crunching, the figuring out, and the planning ahead, for then the things we make we make our way not the way we are told, instead of us settling for how badly we are suffering as we provide the means by which we suffer through the Monopoly Money Racket, instead of blind obedience to falsehood, we get back to the pursuit of happiness.

The Key here is obvious to me, but you may not see it yet. The Key here involves how tax payers decide to pay taxes, with which money, if they pay any tax at all - ever.

When competition in money markets returns in a Legal sense the up-side-down pyramid goes right side up over night, as told by Henry Ford. Now the shoe is on the other foot, and now the power formerly controlled by the ONE LEGAL MONEY CABAL, those people in that group, is POWER commanded by anyone and everyone choosing one better money, and one lower cost money to them, over a worse money, and a higher cost money to them, those consumers of that money, those many people now having that choice.

That is the KEY, that is the shift of POWER, from ONE to MANY, from MONOPOLY to COMPETITION, from DESPOTISM to FREE MARKET, and how do those who seek office in government get paid?

Who pays those who seek office in government with which money?

You can't even begin to answer the question if you are still indoctrinated with a mind that can only see ONE MONEY.

When The FED, so named falsely, no longer has the exclusive POWER to make legal money out of nothing, which competitor takes over first?

Suppose the first competitor to take over is Utah Gold and Silver Money. Having that supposition understood then who is going to pay off The National Debt and with what money is that person, or that group, going to pay off that National Debt, and what will be the rate of exchange at that point?

Lost?

Right now the officials whose power is Legalized FRAUD, or the collective stupidity of the victims, say, the officials say that every single citizen, including a 6 month old baby, owes 50,000 UNITS of LEGAL PURCHASING POWER, without question, this debt shall not be questioned according to the same official record, and so, think, use your own brain, think, what is 1 UNIT of stupidity money, or Fraud Money worth compared to honest money of physically measurable value?

Today, right now, your children each owe 50,000 units of Legal Money based upon FRAUD, and backed by the collective stupidity of American tax payers.

How much is that many units of FRAUD worth if converted into honest money once honest money is back in circulation?

What is the exchange rate if that happens right now, suddenly, without any time to adjust for the slow process of converting dollars for ounces of gold or silver or dollars for kilowatts, or dollar for calories, or dollar for hours of labor, or dollar for oil drops, or dollar for juicy home grown tomatoes in glass jars?

How much Gold from a Utah Bank account owned by our children is needed to pay off that 50,000 dollar units of DEBT that your children supposedly owe to some nebulous legal fiction off-shore or right here in good ole' U.S.A. Inc.?

What is the exchange rate right now?

What is the exchange rate by the time your children retire?

The concept of an exchange rate may be very difficult to understand because you are trained from birth to think in terms of only ONE MONEY POWER where that ONE MONEY POWER has the exclusive POWER to DICTATE the value of each unit of Legal Money.

If they say, hey you, pay me, ahhhhhh, ahhhhhhh, one house worth this year, or you are going to prison, and you question that authority, you go to prison.

If, on the other hand, you, and everyone else, now have the power to say hey, you, if you want anything from me, then you had better provide me with what I want, or you will get a big fat zero from me.

That is the power of a Free Market of MONEY at work, because money is the method of accounting for POWER.

The Legal Criminals have the exclusive POWER, because they say so, and because so many people are stupefied, just plain stupid, to fix the value of who pays how much to who and when.

No, you say, it isn't that simple, there is much more to it.

No, I say, competitively, it isn't any more complicated than that, as they take over the power over all the minds of the victims, they Dictate to the victims a false belief in the value of zeros.

They, those Criminals, tell you, and tell all the other victims, that their zeros are worth this much, and you, and all the other victims believe them.

They can add 13 zeros to their check and they can buy World War III.

You can't, you go to jail for failing to pay 3 zeros to hired mercenaries ready to kidnap you and take you off to some torture chamber, each mercenary can get 2 zeros each, per victim or a quota system who knows. It may take 5 hired mercenaries to get you from where you are now to the torture chamber where other inmates will be happy to torture you pro-Bono since they may be bored and looking for fresh meat.

You accept dollars as all payments too. We are all in this merry-go-round because too many of us are just too damn stupid, and there are enough of them, sociopaths, psychopaths, and Legal Criminals working effectively to perpetuate this specific crime in progress called a Legal Money Monopoly. It is that simple.

Start inventing, using, and maintaining competitive forms of money and the POWER shifts from the Few Legal Criminals back to The People, peacefully, in time, an adjustment, it will happen, because that is how it works when everyone has a choice between something better and something worse, everyone chooses better, not worse.

Why is that so hard to see?

You may only see ONE MONEY, and every thought you have is based upon that False Principle.

I don't know. I'm guessing, based upon your work in comparing notes.

"When we disconnect from the Dollar Homogeny will that do away with the IRS/SS/etc? Will I still need my number? Is that number being used for the developing competitive currencies? If so I would think long and hard about draining the swamp and being surrounded by alligators…from one dictator to the next in line."

If Utah becomes the first best alternative to Fraud Money then more and more people will compare notes as to where they store their hard earned wealth, no longer in a Federal Reserve Bank where their earnings will be denominated in Fraud Money, where the value of the earnings may "hyper inflate" down to nothing quick, and then Uncle Sam is no longer calling the shots.

Who is calling the shots if Utah becomes the next best money source?

You have no concept of the big picture, but I do, so I can offer the obvious comparative study.

What is, what will be, is a NEW WORLD RESERVE CURRENCY POWER MONOPOLY off-shore, after The Dollar Hegemony implodes on schedule, and that new MONEY POWER may be in China, that will happen, unless something else happens.

Instead of that happening, where the actual money we use is made even worse than it is today, instead of us using the best of the worst, The World Reserve Currency now being The Dollar Hegemony, Fraud Money for sure, but the best Fraud Money in the World, instead of that MONOPOLY POWER flying to China, Utah takes over as the best money in the world, and it is best because it isn't FRAUD MONEY.

It is best because it is accurate, honest, Gold and Silver backed money, and to choose worse over better, as payments of any kind, by anyone, will cost the person making that choice a whole lot of earnings for nothing in return.

In other words: what will be the exchange rate?

Utah honest money exchanged for any FRAUD money on the planet?

Day ONE, the first day Utah takes over, what is the exchange rate?

If one year goes by and none of the FRAUD money producers, none in Canada, none in Europe, none in Russia, none in China, none of the FRAUD money producers work to increase the quality of their money, and work to reduce the cost of their money (to the consumers), then the exchange rate remains stable unless all those FRAUD Money competitors work to reduce the quality of their money, as they are doing now, and if all those counterfeit competitors work to increase the cost of their money (to the consumers) then the exchange rate between Utah, honest money, works in favor of Utah money as less Utah money buys even more FRAUD money.

Utah money takes over even faster if the other competitors don't pony up, and change their evil ways.

Now suppose that Missouri Money becomes even better than Utah money, cutting costs, increasing quality, making consumers much happier, and now there is a real horse race to see just how much better, and better, legal money can get?

Then Texas money starts taking off, taking over, gaining currency, with even better money yet, and even less expensive money.

Who is calling the shots?

The PEOPLE.

What are they going to pay as taxes when they now have the POWER to choose?

Gone is the abject belief in a nebulous trust in zeros and returned is a realization that those who produce value are valuable.

Gone is the false sense of security in paying people to lie more and more, as they tell us to pay more and more, for better and better lies.

"Are the criminals already backed into a corner consuming each other?"

That is their way of life, that is the life they choose, it is business as usual for them, all the time, every waking day, and how they can sleep at night, I don't know, they are sociopaths, they are psychopaths, they do that for a living, and they are not happy if they are not making a lot of other people pay, and pay dearly, for their existence.

If an old person on Social Security refuses to adapt, clinging to a piece of paper as their POWER to make other people pay for their mistakes, their bad investments, then they may be, soon, showing that paper to the new Nazi's, our own home grown variety of Nazi, on their way to gas chambers, on their way to the pile of mass murdered, to be buried in mass graves, or to be left to rot out in the sun.

I don't see any authority in those pieces of paper and I won't be fooled into playing that game, not on my dime, not in my name.

Rats think they can get something for nothing, so long as enough victims can be fooled, and when too many rats are trying to feed on too few victims, all hell breaks loose. Rats feed on rats. That is the price to pay for that way of life. I think the victims can opt out, not join the rat club, just opt out, and to me it is as easy as being competitive, instead of settling for less.

Joe

Updated Perspective

I do have a hard time seeing the big picture. I am a detail person. Thank you for so carefully explaining for the umpteenth time. It may have sunk in:

"The symptom that you are treating is an Insurance Policy gone bad, and the cause or the "gone bad" part is traceable to a single cause, and all you have to do to find that single traceable cause is to follow the money to the source.

Follow the money to the source and you find the principle cause of why a simple insurance policy went bad, and then treat the cause, not the symptom"

I understand now why, but I still have questions.

How soon will the states be ready with those currencies? Do you know?

Do the states understand the problem as it is…Legal Criminals and all going off shore to China?

How do you know the states are not acting in conjuction with the Legal Criminals since the dollar is getting ready to implode? http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2593934

Hegemony: The predominant influence, as of a state, region, or group, over another or others,

not

Homogeny: Similarity in structure, though of different function, because of genetic relationships.

I knew I should have checked my spelling. How you do not throw your hands up and say enough...?

"I don't see any authority in those pieces of paper and I won't be fooled into playing that game, not on my dime, not in my name."

You may not, but sooner or later I think that number is going to be used with RDIF and nearly everything you do will be transparent whether you see it as having any authority or not.

http://media.radiosai.org/journals/Vol_08/01SEP10/images/03_... I see the banana as SS $'s of any competitive money source. It is still an issue of control easily to be taken over by sociopaths. The jar can either be broken, or the monkey can let go.

Jeff is a big picture person. It is a great gift. We butt heads sometimes though. I tend to get wrapped around the axle with my myopic, perfectionist perspective. Thank you once again for your patient and kind reply.

False knowledge

"How soon will the states be ready with those currencies? Do you know?"

Your help with your Spiritual Connection (a competitive one if I have ever seen one) clues me in on the need to remain skeptical concerning my lack of ability to actually know the truth.

I am prone to err.

Not being satisfied with Internet reports I went to the Liberty Conference in Nevada last year to hear reports from actual people and one report concerned the latest news (at that time) concerning the competitive legal money issue in Nevada.

I stopped the speaker and asked a question or two concerning the gravity of the situation. I asked if he or they knew what I know which is that it is Game Over for The FED if competition is allowed to exist in money markets.

The speaker appeared to agree as he was the paid economic consultant to the governors of Utah who were working on this plan of defensive attack against The FED, and he responded to my question with a report of warning his employers about the seriousness of their plan.

My thinking is such that the people in Utah may be "banking" on Mitt Romney to help them, so the effort is throttled down, but it is ongoing, and that is only my guess, nothing more.

There won't be a sudden "Game Over" like pushing the reset button on the computer, or like World War III is happening now, not a sudden "Game Over", not peacetime and then a sudden "Game Over" with the Axis of Evil pushing the launch of all the Nuclear Weapons followed by the Leader of the Free World responding by pushing the button on all the "defensive" nuclear missiles.

911 was probably a False Flag Event intending to start World War III, in a bigger way, but The People, reacted, were measured, and found wanting something less, and so the most powerful among us get away with less torture and mass murder not as suddenly as they may wish to get away with at this time.

Game Over for the FED, and Legal Crime in general, will happen when Liberty (competition) expands all the options (one more option at a time) rather than having all the options made against the law. Legal Criminals, so defined by their actions, are a very few options of possible actions, they torture, they murder, they lie, they steal, and they spend what they steal on whatever keeps all contenders to the throne incapable, powerless, to contend the throne, which will be, in fact, a Legal Money Monopoly Power.

The People behind the Utah competitive venture in Legal Money Markets are merely the most obvious competitors and therefore the most threatening, compared to say, Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, whoever is actually in charge in Iran (look up Islamic Banking), Korea, Africa, etc.

How difficult will it be, right now, to sell to the victims, to the morons, the idiots, the stupefied, the brainwashed masses, an invasion of Utah so as to crush a Legal Money Competitor?

How difficult will it be, right now, to sell the morons, the idiots, the stupefied, the brainwashed masses, a better money in Utah compared to the very, very, very, very bad stuff produced, for the greater good, to save the children, by the people at The FED, for our collective convenience?

It is roughly as difficult to keep Legal Crime gaining currency as it is to keep Liberty gaining currency so long as enough victims settle for being victims, or, all that is needed for evil to prevail is for good people to do no shopping for a better legal money.

When I say "Game Over" for the FED and the the speaker nods then we both don't mean, suddenly, Federal Troops are bombing bridges, hospitals, power plants, banks, water treatment plants, dams, and other powerful things in Utah, not because the FED won't, but because the FED does not yet have enough power to get away with that specific crime.

This is what I don't get about people "blaming" Rand Paul (who I saw eating breakfast in the table next to our table when Vicki and I went to RENO) blaming Rand Paul for this or that, since so much is not known as to which Friend of whose Liberty is thinking and acting in dealing with which other Friend of Legal Criminal, when everything is GREY on purpose, made ambiguous on purpose, made false on purpose.

Rand Paul picked up the sword. Live by it, and die by it.

Ron Paul, on the other hand, as far as I can still tell, knows better than to pick up that sword.

I mean, specifically, the sword of deceit, and the sword of threats of aggressive violence, and the sword of aggressive violence upon the innocent - that sword, without ambiguity, without any GREY area, and without any "plausible deniability".

Rand Paul may have made the decision to employ The Problem in the effort to solve The Problem, along the lines of vaccination: become that which we supposedly abhor and use that sword to make things right, like injecting the flu virus into the patient to stimulate natural immune responses. The same problem occurs, it seems to me, in that the flu, or the cancer, of Legal Crime includes very, very, very, very intelligent legal criminals who will adapt, mutate, and be one step ahead of the last version of the pathogen, so the intended remedy treats the symptom, or treats last years version of the pathogen, actually doing nothing but wasting effort, actually doing worse than nothing because the doctors, or the Friends of Liberty, actually think they are doing good, and therefore they won't be looking for a TRUE solution, since they THINK they are doing good, when in reality they are filling in one hole with the dirt dug out of the last hole, on and on and on, until the cows come home, when in fact the cows were ordered to be buried in those holes, so as to jack up the price of beef.

That is the same rationale behind every criminal. Ask one. Why did you injure that person? Well, I was doing that person a favor, by helping them see how vulnerable they are, see: now they won't ever fall for that again.

That is the same rational offered in the Introduction to my copy of The Prince by Machiavelli. Everyone else is bad, not me, I'm good, so it takes me to do whatever I must do, to make everyone else good.

"They" are always The Problem, and they are all in need of my help.

Kill them to save them, says I, or whatever I say at any given moment, subject to be the opposite thing I may say the next moment, without question.

Rand Paul the Benevolent Dictator may be the one exception to the rule. Ron Paul, in my fault ridden opinion, knows better.

Why blame Rand Paul for being Rand Paul?

I heard Rand Paul speak, he is a good guy, he makes a fine Benevolent Dictator, the best I've ever seen, compared to say, well, how about Jesse Ventura?

Ron Paul, on the other hand, is no such thing, as far as I can tell, Ron Paul merely says no, and if Liberty needs to be defended, then why not use a limited constitutional Democratic Federated Republic as the means to that end? It worked, voluntarily, to get rid of the British when that was the threat to Liberty, so what is The Problem?

Ron Paul says: The FED is the problem.

I agree.

Ron Paul says: The IRS is the problem.

I agree.

Ron Paul says: Bring the Troops Home now.

I agree.

That does not sound at all like a benevolent dictator, that sounds like a Statesman.

That does not sound like a lying politician, deceit as a rule not an exception, that sounds like the voice of reason, honest, clear, actionable, remedy, in defense of Liberty.

A or B?

Which is it?

A. Legal Crime
B. Not A

Which option allows the other, if you insist, at your own cost, but opt me out, I will opt me out, I will (with God's help) find a way out of the non-option-option, while the other option is obedience without question?

"How soon will the states be ready with those currencies? Do you know?"

The People will get what they demand when the demand is supplied, and that is already happening, here and there, not so much in California, but I see the Big Picture too.

Here in California the old Law was no payments of legal power (money) to home producers of electricity for extra electric power sent to The Grid (The Grid that is owned by a licensed consortium or subsidized, or fascist, monopoly power "company") and now the new Law says it is OK for a home produce to get a check in the mail when a home producer produces excess electricity used by someone else through The Grid, and that is the same thing as a competitive BANK of money, same situation, same victory for Liberty (competition) and the same incremental "Game Over" for Legal Crime.

The fact that we are all in Legal Crime causes the Rand Paul's among us to decide to "become that which we supposedly abhor" in order to fix The Problem.

The fact that Legal Crime is based, principally, on FRAUD, means that we can do what Henry Ford warned, we can wake up tomorrow morning without Legal Crime, just stop "believing" in the lie. We don't have to become that which we "supposedly" abhor: stop believing in the patented absurdities and do so all at once.

More than one person, we all stop "believing" in the lie, or at least all The Friends of Liberty, the former victims, all, as one, opt out.

The rats who insist on being rats, who view The Problem not as a problem, but as a way of life, a means to an end, a way of "making a living" by making their crimes legal, and making their crimes against the law if done by anyone else, ever, those people won't opt out, since they are, they constitute, The Problem.

Those who choose to earn their existence by willfully resorting to deception, threats of aggressive violence upon the innocent, and acts of violence upon the innocent, criminals who define crime by their actions, are The Problem, especially when they take over defensive Law power, effectively making crime legal when they do it, and enforcing obedience, without question, from all the targeted innocent victims, each new baby born, each tagged with a number at birth - a target - a victim.

Whose target?

Yours?

Mine?

Nada

"Do the states understand the problem as it is…Legal Criminals and all going off shore to China?"

Ross Perot first sparked that interest in knowing that capital flight better, as to why, when, how much, and who is doing it, in a big way on National (Monopoly) Television.

Many people since and now have many angles of view and measures on that phenomenon. My view on it may be unique, or is unique in fact.

Which viewpoint in more competitively accurate?

"How do you know the states are not acting in conjuction with the Legal Criminals since the dollar is getting ready to implode?"

The rule, not the exception, is that Criminals who make their crimes legal, will be holding offices in Legal Crime, so the answer is a matter of fact.

The net accurate measure of injury to the victims, as a total sum, is determined by which Tax Collectors get more or less today compared to yesterday. When there is a Single Tax Collector Group, or when Despotism (Legal Crime) is maximum, the targets will be working so hard to pay so much that they will be consuming more than they are fed, as told by Alexander I. Solzhenitsyn, as a function of calorie count per day. The victims burn this many calories in a days work, and the victims are paid this many less calories each day, working for the pleasure of dying faster. The ultimate in up-side-down world pursuit of happiness patented absurdity: free to die more horribly and faster.

When many competitive Legal Criminals, each with their own smaller turf, or piece of the action, when many are each cutting each victim with a thousand cuts, from many angles, city, county, state, sales, excise, property, school tax, breathing tax, sunlight tax, water tax, food tax, sweat tax, tear tax, then the tendency is to compete, among the many Legal Criminals, to keep their victims alive longer than their Legal Criminal competitors, so Utah may be a much lesser Evil than The FED. Does that make any sense to you? What governs the agreements among Legal Criminals? What are the secret deals that constitute honor among thieves?

What was The Dirty Compromise of 1787?

The most powerful Legal Criminals do not want a One World Government since all the victims would then know exactly who was their enemy and all the victims would then be focusing their defensive power on the one obvious enemy power, and that is why there has to be a Red team and a Blue team, or a Eurasia, Eastasia, and Oceana, so as to divide and conquer the victims at every level - it is the nature of the beast.

Those with the most Power can't remain in power if the next level down combines forces to take over the smaller power on top, so the Nature of the Beast is to always keep the next level lower fighting among themselves. It has been a long time since my reading of The Prince by Nicoli Machiavelli, but I'm pretty sure that it is all spelled out in that book too.

If Utah is run by nothing but the lesser Evil or the two groups of Evil people (Fed or State) and those at the State level start a competitive money, than the effect will be improved money, and that means that those who produce surplus wealth can keep it rather than have it used to steal more from them, which may then become fashionable, whereby the victims "get it" by that example, and then the former victims demand more of it, more competition, more choices, more Liberty, and that too is feared by Dictators, so those lesser of two Evils in Utah will be busy working to keep their victims divided too, while at the same time the Utah lesser of two Evils know how not to upset the greater of two Evils too much.

Liberty is not top down. Legal Crime is to Down, in levels, for reasonable reasons.

Liberty is earned by each individual as each individual invents, produces, and maintains a competitive option, which isn't something worse or more expensive since being competitive is setting the bar higher with higher quality and lower cost, which can be confused with "the lesser of two evils" which appears to be "competitive" in an up-side-down world, where everyone is ordered to obey, without question, by the operators of the Single Money Monopoly Power.

A. Competition to be better and less expensive to everyone.
B. Counterfeit competition to be better at destroying the victims.

You must see how there is a thing to be hidden by the False Front. There is no need for a False Front if there isn't something to be hidden. The thing being hidden is a Single Legal Money Power called The Dollar Hegemony, hidden in plain sight, it is the POWER behind all the wars.

I just took a work order so I will return to this later.

The point before the break was to point out that there is, or IS, a Monopoly Money Power, while there is an illusion (counterfeit) competition of Legal Money choices offered to the consumers of money, where the False Front is that we "consumers" have a choice, when in fact we "consumers" are victims hid behind a false front of "consumerism".

If Utah does compete in money markets, actually forcing money quality up, and money cost down, gaining market share, then that will constitute a de-facto competitor, or option, to whoever can gain access, be connected to, that option, to keep, store, save, and defend against loss, any earnings by anyone.

Does it matter if the Legal Criminals volunteer to be Benevolent or if they do so by accident? Only when someone tries the case, discovers the facts of motive, and renders an accurate decision in that case where judgment of true guilt or innocence is the goal.

So long as Liberty (competitive choices) is the result, the methods of arriving at the goal can be copied, refined, improved on, in a competitive way, in Liberty.

Why have the Swiss managed to avoid both World War I, World War II, and probably World War III?

Why were the Americans able to defeat The British after 1776?

The answer is: competitive everything, including money, instead of monopoly everything including money, and money is the stuff that connects everyone who uses it. How about a money that only connects the Friends of Liberty to each other instead of allowing ONLY the Legal Criminals to have the ONE license to produce the ONE money?

As to the link on access to Gold:

Take away The FED and the IRS and place a number on how many units of surplus wealth you keep each month instead of having that power stolen and used by those Legal Criminals to steal more and then think of where you are going to invest that number, each month, of that much EARNINGS of yours?

We did some of this math with mortgage payments, but just pick a number out of the hat, for now, call it 100.

100 each month you keep in earnings.

What do you do with it?

If the Bank you choose to Bank on your "savings" (which is really an investment) offers Gold as a storage medium, then you now have access to Gold. What is the problem?

"You may not, but sooner or later I think that number is going to be used with RDIF and nearly everything you do will be transparent whether you see it as having any authority or not."

So what is the wrong in accurate identification methods? The thing isn't wrong, the people who use the thing as a weapon are CRIMINALS made LEGAL, which is The Problem.

Having a way to find your child if your child is lost, having that power in your hands, is not bad, so why blame the thing?

A pointed stick is not dangerous, and the gun didn't do it.

This goes back to the knee jerk reaction I get whenever I propose a hand held weapon that can record any crime in progress and the same hand held thing, where the thing is the size of a cell phone, can be used to immobilize any potential attacker by any potential victim, and everyone, including little kids, has one.

What is the knee jerk reaction?

No, no, no, that is horrible, "they" can't have one of those things! That would result in TOTAL ANARCHY!!!!!!

Really?

That is because, the thinking goes, ALL mankind is bad, and therefore only me can save them, or I can have one of those devices but no one else, unless I sanction, authorize, and allow them to have one, or even I can't have one, but the people I authorize can have one, bla, bla, bla, like a broken record of a parrot that sings only one tone.

"The jar can either be broken, or the monkey can let go."

That is the point exactly. When confronted with the lesser of two evils, either hold the banana and be stuck with your hand in the jar, or leave the banana in the jar, the Liberated individual opts out of the NON-OPTIONS and invents a competitive option. You break the jar. I'll pick up the jar, turn it upside down, and let gravity work for me.

Thanks

Joe

Truth and Error

“Your help with your Spiritual Connection (a competitive one if I have ever seen one) clues me in on the need to remain skeptical concerning my lack of ability to actually know the truth.
I am prone to err.”

We are all prone to error. The good news is though that Jesus said you can know the truth and with it you are made free! John 8:32 “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free”

God will judge according to truth: Romans 2:2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things

Jesus said we can be made pure by the truth: John 17:17 “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.”

We can have a personal and restful relationship with the truth! John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way , the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Again Jesus says: Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden , and I will give you rest .

ME: "The jar can either be broken, or the monkey can let go."

YOU: That is the point exactly. When confronted with the lesser of two evils, either hold the banana and be stuck with your hand in the jar, or leave the banana in the jar, the Liberated individual opts out of the NON-OPTIONS and invents a competitive option. You break the jar. I'll pick up the jar, turn it upside down, and let gravity work for me.

And that sir, is exactly why I asked you. I now more clearly see the 3rd option which you have offered all along:

Just let gravity, a law of nature = money competition,

do its work by disconnecting from the jar = the legal criminal money monopoly;

and the prize = power over produced will fall out of the jar when it is turned upside down for we the people to enjoy the reduced cost of power thus being able to purchase more for less.

I hope I didn't take too much liberty and butcher the truth of Joe's Law: Power produced into oversupply reduces the price of power while purchasing power increases because power reduces the cost of production.

My brain doesn't hurt anymore when trying to think Joe's Law thru! But, sadley I could only see A(leaving the banana in the jar) or B (breaking the jar) instead of C (gravity). That must be part of not seeing the big picture? Or only looking at something from 2 different angles when 3-D vision might be necessary?

Do you think Joel Skousen offers a competitive view on war with China/Russia? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0IiCrs58RY&feature=related

As always I appreciate as always your viewpoint.

Psalm 139:23-24: Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

Hyperbole

"As always I appreciate as always your viewpoint."

Always is a figure of speech, I trust, not intending to mean absolute forever on into eternity.

I appreciate your viewpoint more than you may ever know, for reasons that may never be accurately communicated but that is fine, some things are meant to be and other things are not, and all that is out of my power.

God allows me to know some things and I can claim to know these things as being true. Finding other people who see these things too, in books, in person, through this medium of exchange we call The Internet, can be seen by me as a way that God, or the Truth, gives me a sense of value in my being so active in finding these specific things that I think are worth knowing better.

Few, very few, people are even asking questions, and few still, in my opinion, are asking vital questions, and fewer still are finding accurate answers, again in my opinion.

You are not only asking questions, you are asking vital questions, and you are obviously not settling for inaccurate answers since, as a matter of fact, settling for an inaccurate answer confesses a false desire to know the truth - or perhaps it is not a matter of fact, but that is my trust in truth as far as my poor Spiritual Connection allows me to confirm said truth.

The thing about honest people is that trust can actually be a powerful thing, rather than being a liability.

"Just let gravity, a law of nature = money competition,"

If there were a sudden realization over night by everyone with few exceptions (the exceptions already know) concerning POWER commanded by individuals then the revolution is what we all wake up to this morning. The PEOPLE take over, or the meek inherit the earth, as all the other words, like democracy, and government, and anarchy, are rendered less meaningful in direct competition with this now active POWER commanded by each individual who now knows better than to settle for FALSE FRONTS, or pretenders to some throne of authority over anyone else, whereby that pretender is falsely raised above anyone else, when no such thing is true, not unless that someone is Jesus returning or God returning and who, anywhere, is claiming to be this exceptional God above man?

Not you.

Not me.

But take any Legal Criminal and know, sure you know, any criminal with or without a badge, raises him or her self above their victim, as a False God, a pretender to the throne, and POWER is stolen, POWER is transferred, and it is past time for all the potential victims to opt out of that whole mess, and there are plenty of competitive options already provided to us, by our ancestors, our contemporaries, or even the real God, Jesus, the real deal, really does help us know better.

Each individual, by definition, offers a competitive example of everything to everyone else, and why would anyone ever want to crush any offers by anyone?

Liberty = competition

Legal Crime = Monopoly

Power produced into oversupply is competitively better for each individual compared to power crushed into a condition of scarcity.

Only the non-competitors, only the monopolists, only the Legal Criminals seek to crush competition, to crush individual power supplies, to make power scarce, and they do so, the Criminals do so, because they are then, by those actions, the only ones who get the power over power and they then jack up the price of power to anyone who will do anything to get enough power to survive, or to keep their children alive, or to join in on all The Legal Crime for fun and profit at the expense of all the targeted victims.

Power produced into oversupply, assuming that Legal Criminal connections can be severed and avoided by the former victims, reduces the price of power.

Who, look around, who do you know who wants higher food prices?

Who wants higher electricity prices?

Who wants higher water prices?

Who wants higher transportation prices?

All those things are forms of actual life giving power.

Who wants higher defense against crime prices?

Who wants higher insurance prices?

Who wants higher taxes?

What is the more competitive want?

A.
I want higher taxes, higher water prices, higher food prices, lower quality insurance, lower quality water, lower quality food, because that is how I get my profits, that is how I earn my living, and I am willing, able, ready, and currently resorting to deceit, threats of violence, and acts of violence upon the innocent to keep my power over these sources of power that everyone needs.

B.
I want lower taxes, higher quality insurance against all crimes, lower food prices, and I'm willing to work for food, and higher food quality, etc.

Which is the competitive viewpoint? Which is the monopoly viewpoint?

Power produced into oversupply reduces the price of power while purchasing power increases.

Here is where ONE MONEY works the same way as many different monies work to force money quality up and cost down, it does not matter, so long as the person understanding the way things work understands that the unit of value is held constant long enough to know that the cause of any increases or decreases of power are not caused by the increase or decrease in the number of units of money.

So here is where Purchasing Power becomes very complicated to someone who is not familiar with The Business Cycle (Psycho) and how Legal Criminals double the number of units of money and then subtract half of the units of money so as to cause BOOMS and BUSTS and therefore to have inside information on when to sell, because they know when prices will be highest, and they know when to buy, when prices will be lowest, because they cause those man-made fluctuations in market prices that way, by doing that exact thing that exact way.

So you have to fix the unit of value to something, some standard measure of value, of some kind, if you are going to understand the relationship of POWER and MONEY, actual POWER, and actual Purchasing POWER (money).

Money isn't money if it has no power to purchase. So what is the amount of power to purchase with a specific money unit, anything, so long as you know that measure of that unit of POWER TO PURCHASE so as to know what happens to that amount of POWER when other POWER is increased, made abundant, and prices go down because other POWER is abundant.

Power produced into oversupply reduces the price of power WHILE PURCHASING POWER INCREASES...

That is not a competitive viewpoint. That is fact. There are obvious measurable reasons why that is fact but know that it is fact easily.

If Legal Crime is opted out and if power is used to make more power, and more power, and more power, and power runs like sunlight, or power runs like water on a very rainy day, then the price of power will reduce from where power is priced while power is scarce to the price of power once power is abundant, once Legal Crime is bypassed by enough people to actually constitute enough power to make power abundant. The price goes down.

Power today, because it is scarce, is a food bill, an electric bill, an insurance bill (tax), a water bill, a transportation fuel bill, a mortgage bill, a money storage bill (plus or minus) to name a few POWER bills that are high because power is made scarce on purpose as competitors are systematically crushed by the monopoly power.

Power once power is abundant will be less pricey.

If you work and earn X amount of income today then that is a measure of your Purchasing Power, roughly fixed, as X, today, that is it, that is enough to know for now, without any other external calculation concerning the value of the unit of money used by you or anyone else.

Power before abundant power is allowed is HIGH today while your purchasing power is X, so power is then made abundant, and we keep Purchasing Power known to be X, so that we know the effect on X without having X mysteriously fluctuating in value, keep it at X, for now, so as to know what happens when the other factors go up and down, we are solving for X, and X is X, not X - Y (your earnings cut in half by The FED when they double the money supply).

Power price after power is allowed to be produced competitively and therefore abundantly is LOWER than it is today after that increase of production happens.

Your Income is X today, and you pay all those POWER bills today.

You wake up in the future, but your income is the same (fixed) for purposes of knowing how your Fixed Power to Purchase will be affected by abundant power being less pricy.

Power is less pricy, your power to purchase increases, because now you pay less for power and you have more power to spare.

Power produced into oversupply reduces the price of power while purchasing power increases because power reduces the cost of producing.

Every single producer of anything now has a lower tax bill, a lower water bill, a lower electric bill, a lower food bill, a lower net POWER bill, so every single producer can cut prices and stay in business against any competitor who can't cut prices because they are still "providing the means by which we suffer".

I hope that helps.

"Just let gravity, a law of nature = money competition, do its work by disconnecting from the jar = the legal criminal money monopoly; and the prize = power over produced will fall out of the jar when it is turned upside down for we the people to enjoy the reduced cost of power thus being able to purchase more for less."

Gravity as an analogy for competition works because human nature, as God made it, is to choose life instead of choosing death. There are exceptions, mutations, evil people who choose to kill for fun and profit, but the default, or the working design is to choose higher quality life, at a lower cost, instead of lower quality life at a higher cost, which is a gravity of life, a force that must be there or all hell breaks loose. What would happen if God, or some person, or some thing, switched off all gravity everywhere?

What would happen, if tomorrow morning, everyone woke up with a desire to make life worse and cost more?

What would you do waking up without that design, that gravity, that need for better and lower in cost turned up-side-down? Wake up and punch your husband in the nose, kick the dog, throw the kids out into the street, then jump off the roof so as to break your own legs?

"I hope I didn't take too much liberty and butcher the truth of Joe's Law: Power produced into oversupply reduces the price of power while purchasing power increases because power reduces the cost of production."

It is what it is, does what it does, and seeing it either happens or doesn't happen. I see it.

"Do you think Joel Skousen offers a competitive view on war with China/Russia?"

I'll check that out.

Thanks again.

Note: Joel Skousen may know a lot more than I do as to which people are planning actual plans to reset World Reserve Currency Headquarters (from The Dollar Hegemony to The World Bank I suppose), including the use of Nuclear Weapons on targets in America. I think he has it right on principle, or I have it right, as the obvious need to keep conflict going after World War III (Legal Crime needs to divide the victims at every level) appears to be our mutual understanding.

I don't think that everyone will be looking at The World Bank as the ONE group of most powerful bad guys, so China will probably end up as being The World Economic Dictators (that is what we are now), the bad guys (we are the bad guys now), not The World Bank, and not The U.N., and not The New World Order, but China will be the bad guys with Chinese money as the most powerful version of Fraud Money, and Russian may or may not be partners for awhile, and then enemies for awhile, in that order, but the principles are measurably apparent to me too.

The most powerful few may or may not include someone stupid enough to employ nuclear weapons, or even, at that moment, not be powerful enough to stop one of the psychopaths who does gain access to those launch protocols and getting past any cooler head that could get in the way in time.

I would not trust reports by anyone saying that there is a plan by the Russians or the Chinese to nuke America. It does not even sound right to me to say that Russia does not have the technology, that sounds contradictory in principle. Russians don't do aggressive wars for profit in history, they do internal self-destruction and are very good at defense. China, is the same, they do self-destruction very well, and they are very good at repelling invaders eventually.

The message sounds self contradictory. It won't be the Russians and Chinese calling the shots (World Bank does) and it will be the Russians and Chinese calling the shots when they get enough technology. If the most powerful people, the ones who have the most power, this is a factual statement, there are the most powerful people, I'm not one, you are not one, they do exist, and they have enough power to get any technology, that makes them by that measure the most powerful, so why are they waiting to get that which they already have?

Joe

Redundancy

Me: "As always I appreciate as always your viewpoint."
You: Always is a figure of speech, I trust, not intending to mean absolute forever on into eternity.

http://www.1828-dictionary.com/d/search/word,always #3 3. Continually or constantly during a certain period, or regularly at stated intervals.

As always I currently appreciate, as I always do, your viewpoint; however, sometimes you make me mad or hurt my feelings, but I always appreciate your viewpoint because I appreciate your response; which does not necessarily mean I will always continue to appreciate your viewpoint forever into eternity or even into next month…as JK says: “time will tell.”

If anything I would call my statement redundant. I noticed I had “as always” in my sentence twice and instead of fixing it I chose to leave it thinking perhaps it kind of worked as my thoughts, but was initially unintentionally written that way. I realize I leave too much to read between the lines and often use the wrong words.

“I appreciate your viewpoint more than you may ever know, for reasons that may never be accurately communicated but that is fine, some things are meant to be and other things are not, and all that is out of my power.”

With my self-concept, it is very difficult for me to accept that someone appreciates my viewpoint or to even understand that they can appreciate it…my dad was careless with his words and while I recognize it I have not yet completely shed the consequences. I do find this writing thing to be somewhat therapeutic though.
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“Few, very few, people are even asking questions, and few still, in my opinion, are asking vital questions, and fewer still are finding accurate answers, again in my opinion.”

There are very few people who will put up with my questioning until I know better or they know better. Most people think that I am badgering or arguing when I just want to be proven wrong if I am wrong so that I will know what is right. If someone thinks they know what is right and it is different from what I think, I am going to question it until I can either understand they are wrong or that I am wrong. I don’t know what kind of reasoning method that is. I don’t think it is Socratic as I only this year heard of that method where one tries to bring people around to truth by asking the right questions. I am not that calculated, and that would also presuppose that I knew the truth. Rather, I stand on my soapbox and state my opinion or my question until someone can explain to me why it is not correct or what is correct and if the logic bears out for me I will replace my opinion with someone else’s, but in that process I will continue to ask questions until I am satisfied that I am wrong or right, which is why your viewpoint is always appreciated. It is not that I have to be right or want to be right; I want to know what is right so I can know what is right. Most people find that too challenging or perhaps threatening, which is most likely my fault for not being able to set people at ease while I am doing the questioning so as to arrive at the truth. I would also imagine it has a lot to do with the tone and inflection in my voice, as well as rapid fire statements and questions, which fortunately you do not have to put up with while I try to arrive at the truth. And then of course, there are times to agree to disagree.
_____________________
Thinking about that bottle with the banana in it…I suppose if it is not turned upside down soon enough, perhaps the bottle will get broken. I suppose that the banana may fall out, but perhaps the banana may be damaged beyond use. I think the Challenge of the Liberty Day Challenge is to get enough people to wake up tomorrow morning or whatever morning before it is too late and we, the noncriminal people of these United States, have a broken bottle with which to deal. A broken bottle can leave a big and potentially dangerous mess to clean up. By all means we, Friends of Liberty, must do what we, Friends of Liberty, can to get that bottle turned upside down so that gravity can work! Perhaps inverting the bottle (getting people to wake up) is the Ultimate Challenge of the Liberty Day Challenge?

Which reminds me of the Scripture (off topic): James 1:3-4 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

I can only hope that just as the illustration by which I tried to prove my point with the bottle, which you so excellently seized upon and enabled me to understand and except in a new way your viewpoint of disconnecting and also to more completely understand the fact of Joe’s Law, can likewise somehow be realized spiritually for you in some way at some point in knowing like I know and like these folks knew in Matthew 14:33
“Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.”
In context: http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/matthew/passage.aspx?q=ma...
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“The thing about honest people is that trust can actually be a powerful thing, rather than being a liability.”

…Until that trust is broken, which can be very devastating for the one doing the trusting. It can also be very difficult to be able trust again another person. In my opinion even honest people are not worthy of our ultimate and whole-hearted trust because people change, people make mistakes, and sometimes we misinterpret people as being honest.

However, I do know from personal experience that the Bible is trustworthy and that knowing the truth will set one free. Jesus said in John 8:32 “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free”. Jesus also said in John 8:36 “If the Son therefore shall make you free , ye shall be free indeed.
In context http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/john/passage.aspx?q=john+...

Luke 6:46-49 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
In context: http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/luke/passage.aspx?q=luke+...

One needs to be sure one is trusting the True Foundation which is the only Honest Foundation..
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"…or pretenders to some throne of authority over anyone else, whereby that pretender is falsely raised above anyone else, when no such thing is true, not unless that someone is Jesus returning or God returning and who, anywhere, is claiming to be this exceptional God above man?”

There is no authority except that allowed and created by God. This may be incomprehensible and I hesitate to open the can of worms:

Colossians 1:15-17 Who is the image [Jesus] of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist .

Colossians 2: 15-17 And [Jesus] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it [His death on the cross/resurrection/redemption for mankind]. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen , vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

The can of worms is that those criminals would not have authority if it were not allowed; i.e., Satan would not have had access to Job’s life if God had not permitted it to be so. However, that does not mean they, the criminals, have to keep authority. I don’t know if you want me to try to explain the above Scriptures any further or if they are clear to you already. I added the 2nd passage in Colossians 2 because it interested me that Jesus spoiled those powers when He triumphed over the grave.
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“Power once power is abundant will be less pricey…Power before abundant power is allowed is HIGH today while your purchasing power is X, so power is then made abundant, and we keep Purchasing Power known to be X, so that we know the effect on X without having X mysteriously fluctuating in value, keep it at X, for now, so as to know what happens when the other factors go up and down, we are solving for X, and X is X, not X - Y (your earnings cut in half by The FED when they double the money supply).”

OK, question: When Ron Paul holds up a pre1964 quarter and says he can buy a gallon of gas at today’s price with the quarter is that because the value of the quarter is intrinsic to its silver or because that quarter had not yet been doubled and cut in half over and over again? What if quarters were still silver? I am trying to think thru doubling and cutting in half something tied to something with intrinsic value but it hurts my brain and I want to stop thinking instead of thinking and I suppose that is not fair for me to ask you to explain it when I will not even make myself think about it? But I also do not believe I know all the factors to consider when trying to reason it.
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“Gravity as an analogy for competition works because human nature, as God made it, is to choose life instead of choosing death.”

This brings me back to the point that we raise our children because it is within human nature to choose life and to multiply our kind.

God also commanded mankind to be fruitful and multiply:
Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply , and replenish the earth.

“…What would happen if God, or some person, or some thing, switched off all gravity everywhere? What would happen, if tomorrow morning, everyone woke up with a desire to make life worse and cost more?

This happened before the world wide flood. It had never rained before. I suppose some gravity was not switched off, but something was switched to allow the waters above the firmament to release as well as the waters below the earth to rise. Genesis 6:5 “And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”
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Thank you for your time and effort to give your requested thoughts on Skousen.

“I don't think that everyone will be looking at The World Bank as the ONE group of most powerful bad guys, so China will probably end up as being The World Economic Dictators (that is what we are now), the bad guys (we are the bad guys now), not The World Bank, and not The U.N., and not The New World Order, but China will be the bad guys with Chinese money as the most powerful version of Fraud Money…”

How do you know that the World Bank is not the bad guys propping up and hiding behind World Economic Dictators like the US or like China in the future? Just like the US installs dictators into power only to remove them when blow back or unfavorable conditions occur? (This is another one of my questions because it came to mind, so now I am asking so I can come to a right conclusion; not asking for the sake of being right.)

“I would not trust reports by anyone saying that there is a plan by the Russians or the Chinese to nuke America. It does not even sound right to me to say that Russia does not have the technology, that sounds contradictory in principle. Russians don't do aggressive wars for profit in history, they do internal self-destruction and are very good at defense. China, is the same, they do self-destruction very well, and they are very good at repelling invaders eventually.”

Questions:
1) What if they, Russia/China had nuclear capability, but we, the US, had defense mechanisms that would render that capability unsuccessful? (Not saying we do or did, but perhaps it is not that they are incapable, but we are too defended…Star Wars Defense Shield or something to that affect like Regan wanted.)

2) Does the fact that the video was from 2007 play into the nuclear capability factor? Skousen was on InfoWars regarding the 2012 elections. I don’t know if his view changed. I half way listened to it but did not provide the link. He was off on his political candidate nominee analysis as far as I could tell since Romney became the presumptive nominee instead of Gingrich. Here is link in case you are interested, but I am not asking for an analysis or report back on it. It is just FYI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ0suOlFoOI&feature=related It is an hour long.

3) What is meant by “Russians don't do aggressive wars for profit in history, they do internal self-destruction and are very good at defense. China, is the same, they do self-destruction”?

Are you saying that they (China, Russia) do self-destruction internally to themselves or to other nations as their method of war; i.e., Khrushchev said in effect that the US would fall from within? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_will_bury_you

“The message sounds self contradictory. It won't be the Russians and Chinese calling the shots (World Bank does) and it will be the Russians and Chinese calling the shots when they get enough technology. If the most powerful people, the ones who have the most power, this is a factual statement, there are the most powerful people, I'm not one, you are not one, they do exist, and they have enough power to get any technology, that makes them by that measure the most powerful, so why are they waiting to get that which they already have?”

Perhaps it takes the World Bank, or more succinctly the Legal Criminal individuals within that organization, time to hide behind different world powers so as to hide themselves from being the bad guys?

I have no allegiance to Skousen. I just ran across the video on the DP and wondered if he had the same view of WWIII as you.

One last thought question, in an earlier comment in this discussion titled False Knowledge you said:
“911 was probably a False Flag Event intending to start World War III, in a bigger way, but The People, reacted, were measured, and found wanting something less, and so the most powerful among us get away with less torture and mass murder not as suddenly as they may wish to get away with at this time.’

I kinda see 9/11 as a rallying point “United We Stand” to get the American people to patriotically support the Middle East wars and as well as to introduce liberty reducing measures upon the American people.

Why are we at war in the Middle East?

Well, it seems I have managed to add a 3rd conversation to our already active 2. I still want to address the others if it be agreeable with you. My understanding of why the SSN is not the key has been achieved…I think...with the bottle illustration. But it seems I cannot quit asking questions.

Scientific Method

"I don’t know what kind of reasoning method that is."

The concept is derived from the principle of competition, in my view, as the current calculations must allow for the possibility of future improvement in calculation.

Not just a competition between being wrong/false and right/true in eternity, as if pretending to be God, but the competition is to be right/true sooner rather than too late: time based thinking.

Noam Chomsky blows the whistle on just how little people in science know the truth. A true scientist, it seems, will reserve the absolute claims of authority over measurable perception.

Now I know not to look at the sun, not to let the kids play with the cars on the highway, and not to jump off the 10 story building, sure, any person with a reasonable chance of survival absolutely knows these things, but that is now, and now there are many things that I don't know well enough to ensure the survival of life, so, what exactly do I not know, and how exactly can I go step, by careful step, to move from now, where I don't know, to a future time when I will know better?

Recognizing the need to avoid error in thinking is competitive, or based upon the same principle to me. In the past it was obvious that this or that concept was wrong as my actions were driven by this or that idea, motive, thinking, etc., and the outcome was not good because of that false confidence in being true.

Along the same lines as the concept of assuming someone is innocent until proven guilty there is a serious error that is large, or very much the worst error, whereby a person assumes to be absolutely in the right, absolutely knowing the truth, without question, and be wrong in that assumption, because the result is a failure to look for the error and therefore be powerless to remedy the error, akin to convicting an innocent person for a crime the person does not commit, since the guilty are then unaccounted for as the effort to know better is stopped by that error.

So the scientific method has to include the "open mind" whereby challenges to supposed facts are able to be challenged and those supposed facts are not monopolies, or dictates, or absolute tyrants over the measures of perception.

There is expedience too. Never standing on a principle will not allow anyone to move another step, always challenging the first or home base principle, leaves no time, and no effort employed in any other direction whatsoever, like failing to get out of bed, being stuck on the calculation of which is the the better choice.

"Most people think that I am badgering or arguing when I just want to be proven wrong if I am wrong so that I will know what is right."

We are not designed to be all thinking the same things at the same time in fact, as proven by experience, and this too, to me, is competitive so as to be adaptive. Being limited by one viewpoint, the same viewpoint all the time by everyone is non-competitive, it is a monopoly viewpoint, and it can't adapt to such things as the change of seasons. Being able to communicate/compare one viewpoint accurately with another viewpoint is a power by which competition between viewpoints can occur whereby the alternative to many viewpoints competing is the monopoly/non-competition viewpoint where everyone is always blind to everything outside the one viewpoint since everyone shares the one same viewpoint. How about a viewpoint whereby those who can see must stare at the sun, to offer a competitive illustration, and those who cannot see don't have to look at the sun anymore, that is an example of competition, whereby the monopoly viewpoint, if that is all there is, ensures perpetual blindness, while the competitive viewpoint, if allowed to exist, may produce one person once who does not obey the monopoly viewpoint long enough to see a flower, or a child's smile, and then looking back to the sun, goes blind, but that one diversion from monopoly viewpoint, by the one person, one time, for that one duration of that one moment long enough to see a child smile, in an otherwise eternity of human blindness, that illustration offers one competitive viewpoint, and the parent who wandered off the beaten path may adapt to a point at which the smiling child is taught the NEW WAY, and then one child can see one more thing, than another, and all hell breaks loose (at least all hell breaks loose for those who had managed to gain power over all the blind people who were following the one monopoly viewpoint that shall not be questioned).

The word "better" exists for good reason: there was once upon a time something called worse.

"And then of course, there are times to agree to disagree."

The kids grow hungry if all we do is argue over the menu.

"Perhaps inverting the bottle (getting people to wake up) is the Ultimate Challenge of the Liberty Day Challenge?"

Here is where, in my view, every perspective driving to do good works for the same thing. If no one is actively working on false paths then whose going to be joining the crime gangs that are by that adherence to honesty out in the open for all to see as people working to make life miserable let every potential victim know in advance their true colors.

If people like the Paul father and son duo, or Jesse Ventura, or Alex Jones, or Gerald Celente are all insisting that we have to go through bad times, then I'm calling them out, since we don't, there does not have to be bad times gotten through, whereby power is scarce, and food is scarce, and people starve, and people die of exposure for lack of power.

Why is there ever a lack of power anywhere?

A sick person can be transferred to one of many of the very good hospitals anywhere on the planet from anywhere on the plant in a very short time and news of the person's sickness can travel almost instantly.

How about the link by the guy claiming that we all had better prepare for nuclear war and to prepare we all have to be prepared for self sufficiency?

Power-Independence?

Look at my Product 1 and Product 2 concept.

Everyone within the year can afford, on their own power of credit, their own independent power to produce, 2 electric cars, enough solar panels or other methods of producing power to run their cars, their houses, their businesses, and a start-up home garden (Modular Vertical Farming Units) that can be expanded into a source of sale-able income.

What is missing?

Trust

The power of trust that one person will honor their credit and do what they say they will do with the money they borrow from themselves: is missing, and missing because it is being stolen by criminals who make their exclusive crimes legal.

Missing is the legal recognition, or trust, in all the people who prove their own good faith and credit.

I will work and produce the value of my house.

I will work and produce the value of my business property.

I will work and produce the value of my 2 new electric cars that will save me 8 cents on every mile traveled.

I will work and produce the value of my array of Solar Panels and/or wind generators, wave generators, etc., as those sources of power are already paying for their own existence by producing more power than the power consumed in their construction, plus some profit for the user.

I will work and produce the value of my independent home food production units, and my independent home fuel production from algae units borrowed on my dime, and in my name, to earn more power for me to sell or invest or pay off my loan or give to charity or whatever I want to do with the surplus wealth I create at home on my own.

Product 1 and Product 2 can happen anytime, anywhere, with or without a Legal Crime Dollar Collapse of Epic Proportions.

The warning is: Legal Crime causes this that is happening right now, and this that has happened all throughout human history BECAUSE the victims provide the means by which all the victims suffer as those provisions flow to sociopaths, psychopaths, and criminals who make what they do legal and criminals who punish anyone else who competes in any way with their exclusive power over all other powers.

The fix is: Don't feed the Legal Criminals.

People who go to the zoo and stick their hands in the Bear Cage to feed the Bears despite the sign that says Don't Feed the Bears are people who get what they pay for on a regular schedule.

Who looks at the sun?

The Warning isn't: If you don't look at the sun all hell will break loose as someone might actually see for what?

The Fix isn't: Keep looking at the sun.

If anyone, to me, if anyone says: Keep using Monopoly Money and therefore no one will be looking for, and inventing, and producing, and maintaining better, and better, and less expensive, and then even less expensive Mediums of Accurate Exchange, then they are saying KEEP LOOKING AT THE SUN AND KEEP REWARDING THE SOCIOPATHS.

What if Utah is ready to go the Independent way?

Nuke them?

Then obey?

Why not copy the Independent way, down to each individual, then who is left to nuke anyone?

Nuking Utah is supposed to make everyone else stare at the SUN and continue REWARDING THE SOCIOPATHS?

If the people in Utah can now see well enough to stop "providing the means by which we all suffer" and those people are going to go out "on their own" and make their own better legal money, then the fix for that is to nuke them so that everyone else can keep staring at the sun, using the one money, and count themselves in on Economic Collapse and World War III to "save the children"?

Why not figure out how powerful trust is along the lines of Product 1 and Product 2, as those illustrations are ONLY ONE competitive viewpoint made by one person who stopped looking at the SUN long enough to actually see what does exist outside of LEGAL CRIME.

Utah, California, Texas, New York, are all blown up, some fine day, but everyone else has 2 electric cars in each garage, enough Solar Panels to run 4 houses and 8 cars, enough modular vertical farming units, on each house lot, to provide good food all year for 100 families (each family making a different crop), and so those not NUKED can provide the means by which we don't suffer instead of looking at the SUN as ordered without question.

Why keep rewarding the sociopaths who keep blowing everything up?

Hello, hello, hello, is anyone still capable of commanding Common Sense?

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer." (T P Words to the remaining wise - 1776)

Thomas Paine sold those words at cost - a public service announcement - or so the story was told.

"James 1:3-4 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing."

So my wife visits my mom and a story is told of a former worker employed by my mom stopping by, a young girl, strong girl, a single parent, new baby, asking for help from my mom, as my mom is on oxygen, weak, old, near the end. My mom asks my wife for help in deciding how to help the poor girl.

My wife says: "That is a strong, young girl, and you are in no position to help anyone!"

My wife is charitable?

My mom wants the young girl to survive well, and she, my mom, should trust in her example providing help, but I'm not so sure about the being patient part in this case.

I get the point, and I've been writing Power-Independence for decades now, being patient, taking steps off of the principle and keeping an eye out for challenges to the principle, Liberty, so as to stay sharp, with an open mind, which includes challenges provided by people on parallel paths on forums on The Internet (medium of exchange).

From Liberty going one step toward competitive offerings of accurate viewpoints like being in bed, a good place to rest, and then deciding to actually get out of bad, and not being frozen between getting out of the left side of the bed or the right side of the bed, incapable of making my own decision without a direct order from above. How does the first step look? How does the second step look, from a competitive viewpoint based on a strong Spiritual Connection?

In more than 2 decades at communicating Liberty: this discussion, here, is the first example of equitable commerce in ideas, lasting more than a sound bite or two - relatively speaking: patience had better be on the list or I don't know what could be on the list competitively better than patience.

Rome was not built in a day?

Look at the Ron Paul example. Many decades of repeating the same tune, the same song, the same warnings, the same advice, and I for one would have never imagined, 20 years ago, that his tune/song/warnings/advice would be broadcast on the Monopoly Legal Crime Networks of Propaganda (Main Stream Media Television) Channels, but there it is merely a few decades worth of work and it already pays off.

The Power Struggle will be won by Liberty minded Independent Power People when we know that we command all the power that is worth anything, and that can happen over night, or that can happen 1000 years from now, or that can happen in time, or that may not happen in time.

It won't happen if not enough people trust that it will happen.

The power of Liberty is not top down.

Responsibility is individual, or there is no such thing as responsibility.

“Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.”

I trust in a Spiritual Connection because there are no other better concepts concerning all that I do not know, which is incomprehensibly vast, but my trust in printed words is less obvious to me.

I trust in your word, your interpretations of printed words, more so than I trust the printed words, if that means anything to you.

You have not demonstrated anything that could cause me to distrust your word, within the boundaries of common sense, we are, after all, only human.

"In my opinion even honest people are not worthy of our ultimate and whole-hearted trust because people change, people make mistakes, and sometimes we misinterpret people as being honest."

Going back to the meaning of words it occurs to me to think in terms of responsibility. If I trust that you will make errors, then I won't be surprised at the errors you make, and the same is true for me, trusting that I will make errors. Those who finally prove to us that we can now trust that they will injure us, on purpose, for their profit, to consume us for their gain, are those who help us know better - finally - if nothing else we now know "don't feed the bears". Thank you, thank you, thank you, very much, for finally showing me your true colors, I was lost without that confession on your part: does that makes sense in context?

It is devastating to finally see that someone who you mistook for an equitable person, turns out to be a person who consumes other people for the pure joy of injuring innocent people, but seriously: is it foolish to look a (false) gift horse in the mouth, or bite the hand that feeds (from) you?

Intuition may come in the form of a mysterious foreboding and then suddenly as if a great weight is lifted off your shoulders it is a new day, a day to rejoice, a day to move on and out from under the heavy weight of crushing falsehood?

The past me was such a fool, and sure it was on the account of the deceptive one who turned me into a fool, but in all honestly who has the power to know better?

"“If the Son therefore shall make you free , ye shall be free indeed."

Past me = deeds are less good, for me, and less good for anyone else connected to me.

Me now = deeds are more good, for me, and better for anyone else connected to me.

In deed.

Who is the judge? I don't trust ONLY my own judgement, my mind is open, honestly, for competitive judgements, but who has the power to know better?

"But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great."

If a foundation is built on blind obedience to a belief in the good of staring at the Sun, until becoming blind, then someone aught to question that deed, based upon that foundation, it seems to me, but a foundation that results in better life that costs less, who is to argue against such a foundation?

Not me.

When those who argue, because their lives are made worse, because they are paying all the costs, and their voices are being systematically crushed, along with their lives, then there may be a need to follow the trail that leads to the power that does the censoring, and the crushing, back to the source, to find the source of the argument, to find the true cause of it, instead of merely settling for less than finding the true cause of the censoring and the crushing, and the making of life worse, and the making of life more costly.

The following of that money trail, that power, back to the source, may end up, at the end of the trail, at a mirror.

"One needs to be sure one is trusting the True Foundation which is the only Honest Foundation."

I read that, my interpretation of that, is advice that suggests a need to keep an open mind, capable of entertaining a competitive viewpoint if possible within the boundaries of reality.

"I don’t know if you want me to try to explain the above Scriptures any further or if they are clear to you already."

You have a trust that I do not have concerning specific things having to do with the Spiritual Connection; what it is made of, how it was made that way, the history of it, etc.

We are here now, and we are in the time of now: that makes sense to me, but to me the Spiritual Connection may not be of time, it may not be limited in time such as time is a limit to "flesh and blood", so my focus of attention is not weighed heavily with the history of The Spiritual Connection or the future of The Spiritual Connection. It is what it is, and my trust is that it will be what it is, even if I'm not so capable of knowing it now.

If I have a fear then my fear is to be incapable of accessing the Spiritual Connection when failing to do so results in very bad things for many people not just me. I will be in a time and a place where I am BEFORE a moment of decision, and in NEED of knowing better, and I won't know better in time, and I will step AFTER the moment BEFORE and my step will be wrong, very, very, very wrong not only for me, but for all that I love.

The opposite of that fear is concern and where fear leaves me incapable of action a concern drives me to a more competitive position compared to a less competitive position now compared to a worse competitive position before.

There is also a competitive option compared to fear and concern and that competitive option is love where I am driven to reach an even better position after finding love instead of fear and instead of concern, so as to focus attention on making the best decisions possible instead of settling for less than the best.

"OK, question: When Ron Paul holds up a pre1964 quarter and says he can buy a gallon of gas at today’s price with the quarter is that because the value of the quarter is intrinsic to its silver or because that quarter had not yet been doubled and cut in half over and over again?"

That is the same thing seen from a different angle of view. In other words my effort was to bring your focus of view onto a STANDARD OF VALUE and from that standard (which does not change) the actual things that do change can be accurately known as they change.

The idea is to avoid the false account and to focus attention on the actual account of the actual thing that changes.

In my Joe's Law concept the idea is to see how physical power (productive physical power such as electricity) changes and how that change (increase) makes purchasing power increase, you can buy more with the same amount of money, so long as money stays the same.

Identify the cause as the cause, do not mistake the affect to be the cause, because it is possible to be fooled into supporting, financing, or providing for the means by which we suffer, being fooled into using the problem to fix the solution, instead of using the solution to fix the problem.

Ron Paul points out that money does not stay the same when the money is Fraud Money, and he accomplishes that task of communicating how money does not stay the same when the money is Fraud Money by holding up better money (not perfect money) in the form of a precious metal or coin and then the targeted audience is assumed to know that the reason why the coin buys more is not because the coin magically becomes more powerful, no, no, no, the reason why the coin buys more is because Fraud Money is made less powerful by Frauds who steal the purchasing power of the Fraud Money when they write themselves a check worth as much money as everyone else combined.

The coin is worth about the same as it was worth 100 years ago while the Fraudulent Dollar may be worth twice as much tomorrow if legal criminals remove half of the total number of dollars in legal circulation, which they can do if they want to cause a BUST, and the legal criminals can make the Fraudulent Dollar worth half as much tomorrow if the legal criminals write themselves a check worth as much as everyone else has combined, which they did in 2008. It is even more complicated when considering WHO is subsidized and made to BOOM and who pays the bills (who is BUSTED)?

The problem with all that is that all that is so complicated compared to Joe's Law, at least from my viewpoint.

Albert Einstein is quoted as saying:

Everything should be made as simple as possible but not simpler.

I took that to heart and worked toward and found Joe's Law. If you can't get a grasp of Joe's Law, then forget about The Business Cycle made by Legal Criminals running a Legal Money Monopoly.

Joe's Law is as simple as I can get Political Economy and compared to The Business Cycle (Psycho), which is as complicated as every single counterfeit "Law" in all the law books (all done to keep the Money Monopoly going), Joe's Law is simple and the Business Psycho is incomprehensibly complicated on purpose.

Example:

A person unfamiliar with how The Business Cycle (Psycho) works might challenge me on how America is in a Depression since 2008 where I say that The FED doubled the money supply, so according to my own words we should be in a BOOM cycle since "THEY" at The FED are injecting BOOM causing money into the economy with their "liquidity" and their "quantitative easing" and their "inflation" and on and on and on.

That is false. When they want a BOOM they do such things as "liar loans" whereby money usage, or the "velocity" of money speedily changes hands, where money is rapidly exchanging hands at a faster rate, is done on purpose, where anyone who can prove that they can't pay back a loan will get a loan for hundreds of thousands of dollars, and that is one way to create a BOOM with the checks written out of legalized zeros.

In 2008 the FED wrote themselves a check for as many Legal Dollars as everyone else had combined, in other words they "doubled" the money supply, so as to cause a BOOM somewhere, at some time, but they have not yet spent it all, instead there is lower "velocity", and now they "tighten" credit to the Average Joe's and Jane's, and at the same time other things are done such as tax manipulation.

During the BOOM I remember hearing the Tax man tell my wife that she won't pay any taxes, no, no, you won't do that, and it wasn't a joke, it was said like a joke, but it wasn't a joke. We were booming, speculating, buying, flipping, turning a profit, making a business work, reinvesting, hiring, Real Estate commissions had one extra digit to work with, one more zero added to the price and therefore a high commission percentage, and I'm watching all this, and we are not paying any taxes according to tax law then. Why, I thought then, this makes no sense.

Now we are struggling to reduce the debt payments that are swallowing us up and the tax man demands more, this is like night and day.

We were booming and no tax demanded. We are now cutting expenses, downsizing, income is less than debt, 3 years running on high tax bills, and having to borrow to pay the taxes, and the tax man says it is all legitimate?

How can that be legitimate?

We are going strong and no taxes, and then the rug is pulled out from under us, over night, and we are now told that we owe many zeros, and we have to borrow to pay the demands for income we don't have?

Pay the whiskey tax in gold when everyone knows it was the same criminals who caused the gold to leave the country? We have no gold, ass, who do you think you are, we make whiskey to replace the gold we don't have, are you stupid, or do you think we are really that stupid?

Seriously?

Who is behind all this nonsense?

So no, it is not a BOOM cycle right now. Just because The FED doubled the money supply on their own Web Page, means only so much, and yes, if you do get a copy of the very limited Audit on the FED account, then you can find where some of the money is Capital Flight flying over to China where China, by many accounts, will be the bad guys on the other end of World War III, so again, who is behind all this nonsense?

We are busted to boom China so that we finance the eventual new regime that enslaves mankind?

Where did all the gold go?

Provide the means by which we suffer?

That is the only context that explains the cause and effect, all the other claims of legitimacy, under every rock I turn over so far, is nonsense: we provide the means by which we suffer, keep providing more what can be expected?

Can anyone boil it down to something simpler than a warehouse full of law books and another warehouse full of economic theories, where the moment anyone may get a handle on the latest laws and the latest theories that supposedly govern those laws then the rug is pulled and the opposite laws and the opposite theories are now being enforced with very severe penalties for those who get caught failing to obey without question and very severe bonuses for those who make their crimes legal if they do the same crimes that can cause anyone else, anyone not subsidized, very severe punishments?

Power produced into oversupply reduces the price of power while purchasing power increases because power reduces the cost of production.

Legal Crime (victims provide the means by which victims suffer) can't perpetuate if the victims are allowed to keep their power, because the victims will then use the power they have to make more power, abundant power, and enough power, for damn sure, to avoid being victims.

Legal Crime power cannot overpower their victims if the victims can keep the power they make as they make even more power, abundant power, and thereby making, earning, enough power to opt out of "providing the means by which we suffer".

"I am trying to think thru doubling and cutting in half something tied to something with intrinsic value but it hurts my brain and I want to stop thinking instead of thinking and I suppose that is not fair for me to ask you to explain it when I will not even make myself think about it? But I also do not believe I know all the factors to consider when trying to reason it."

If everyone has the same power as The FED, which is exactly what was proven by Josiah Warren in Equitable Commerce, then anyone who prints double their money supply will be someone who cuts the value of each unit in half, and that is shown too with the Stock Split illustration.

I've been called to work.

Back from work and to continue: it is destructive for anyone to do what the FED does unless there is an enforcement mechanism that makes the victims pay for the pleasure of being victims. If you start practicing FRAUD on your ready supply of victims, which is what the FED does, eventually your victims will grow wise and you won't have any more credit, you will be held to account by your victims, and your power over them will vanish in the light of day.

Your deeds, if you do the same thing that the FED does, will confess your crimes to your victims eventually.

The FED get's away with it because that is what it is, it is crime made legal, anyone else doing it is crime made illegal, in the case of the FED no one calls them on it, not for 100 years, not legally, until just recently. In the case of you doing the same things done by the FED, your victims won't protect you when they find out what you have been doing to them, and the LAW POWER won't protect you either, because you are in direct competition with the FED, as you commit illegal FRAUD while the FED commits legal FRAUD, and legal FRAUD in America is a turf battle as criminals work to gain control over that legalized FRAUD, so you had better be the best at it, or you had better find a job where you are best at that job, since crime is a very competitive occupation, and legal crime is even more competitive to see which liar lies best, which violent sociopath is most hidden behind false fronts, and which psychopaths can get away with the most torture and mass murder and fill their personal bank accounts fastest for those body counts.

But having the power to make money out of thin air isn't bad, and it does not have to be FRAUD, it can be up front, legitimate, equitable, and based upon the good faith and credit of the individual printing I.O.U.s, as proven by Josiah Warren in his experiments in Equitable Commerce.

You can print up jars of tomato money, and sell those pieces of paper, one piece of paper for one jar you have or will have when you buy jars and tomatoes with your paper money at the store and you put a date on the money, or some other honest device, so as to account for the fact that the tomatoes don't magically appear inside the jars by elves or by executive fiat.

What is a coupon?

What is gift certificate?

Why do the FEDs demand only one money for tax payments, or else, and that shall not be questioned?

"How do you know that the World Bank is not the bad guys propping up and hiding behind World Economic Dictators like the US or like China in the future?"

I think that there is a lot of evidence proving that the World Bank is, in fact, THE ONLY LEGAL MONEY POWER, but the point I made concerned "PUBLIC OPINION".

The victims will be made to think of the World Bank as a needful regulating power between the false competitors like The Dollar Hegemony and The Euro, and Russia, and China, perpetually.

China is pretty much off the radar, pushed out by Bread and Circuses, Sports and Reality Television, censored by a steady supply of The Doom Day Parade where Economic Collapse is threatening our World, and Global Warming, and no one appears to know why, and it is all happening by accident, and it is all inevitable, but a time will come when there is another Hitler, on the front pages, and everyone will then know who the enemy is, and it will be a Chinese face.

Bait and switch, good cop bad cop, false fronts, false flags, anything to hide the actual fact that yes, there is actually ONE SINGLE LEGAL MONEY POWER, and it is actual people, and they actually do buy things with all that power, and there are reasons why they buy things with all that power, and if there ever did exist a human form of pure evil then why look any further? I don't need a book to authorize judgment of pure evil, just add up all the screams of the tortured, and add up all the bodies of the mass murdered, and there will be a receipt kept somewhere on who signed the check to buy this and that and when they did it and the stuff went exactly where the shipping order ordered it to go, some depleted uranium here, some drones going there, etc.

Scream, scream, scream, bloody torture and murder, and the bodies pile up, and not by magic.

Mr. President

Yes

Did you have sex with that woman or chop down that cherry tree?

I was asked at the bank if I was doing anything for the holiday, and I was beaming with delight at all the responses I could offer, in all honesty.

"What should I do for the holiday, cut some throats?"

Independence Day!

A cut-throat's holiday.

There is some very serious brain washing going on when the date of 1776 is falsely associated with "We The People" as written on The Constitution of 1788.

Independence Day was the day the rebels took to their pens to do their duty of defensive information against a criminal government, and then to arms when the Legal Criminals invaded.

The Articles of Confederation was the Law of the Land, a Democratic Federated Republic, a voluntary government, with a voluntary defensive army, each Sovereign State adding to the cause.

Back when Trial by Jury was still working for every king in every home, that very short time between 1776 and 1788.

Then what happened?

The Dirty Compromise and legalized slavery NATION WIDE!

Hey you!

What?

Are you hiding any runaway slaves, it's a National crime now, and it shall not be questioned.

Very serious brain washing going on: for PubliK Consumption.

Where can I get a license to light a fire cracker, or send a drone to a wedding or funeral on the 4th?

Happy Independence Day!

What is it we are independent from: the truth? We are so grateful now to be independent from that moral conscience ball and that honest accurate communication chain?

Where do I sign up for this glorious Independence stuff?

Where do I too get something for nothing, a head full of unbelievable lies that cannot be questioned?

"Just like the US installs dictators into power only to remove them when blow back or unfavorable conditions occur? (This is another one of my questions because it came to mind, so now I am asking so I can come to a right conclusion; not asking for the sake of being right.)"

Look at how thoughtful, how wise, and how intelligent it is to have you use the symbols US when you intend to hold to account, hold responsible, the causes of specific deeds.

The World Bank has a list of people connected to it by some accurately measurable accounting practice, and so does the US.

People who have power tend to use that power.

A. Destroy things that threaten to take that power away.

B. Make more productive power out of less productive power.

Installing a Dictator, performing Regime Change, hiring Economic Hit Men, sending in the Troops, bombing hospitals, schools, nurseries, libraries, electric power plants, water treatment plants, bridges, radio stations, headquarters, is productive for some, obviously, just follow the money - whose account grows larger?

The wrong dictator is the wrong dictator the first time, and then the second time, for "good" reason.

Blow back is a positive score, a return on investment, a desired outcome, for someone, why else would the things that cause it be purchased in the first place, the first time, and then again, buying the same things, sending the same things to the same places, resulting in more "blow back", again, and again, like a cycle of some kind, a demented cycle sure, if you have a moral conscience, but what if you don't?

The Business Cycle!

Independence from victims who can defend themselves?

Where is my throat cutting knife?

I may have misplaced it, after all, it is Independence Day!

"Questions:
1) What if they, Russia/China had nuclear capability, but we, the US, had defense mechanisms that would render that capability unsuccessful? (Not saying we do or did, but perhaps it is not that they are incapable, but we are too defended…Star Wars Defense Shield or something to that affect like Regan wanted.)"

What do you consider to be success?

What does a pathological liar, a sociopath, a demented child torturing psychopath, or a Legal Criminal consider to be success?

No one, not even the sociopaths, want nuclear war, that is absurd. Nuclear war is a means to an end, so what is the END, what is success?

There is no way to use reason at this level, it is incomprehensible. We are sold a lot of lies and this is one of them: for us to think that Russia/China has some person or some group that will attack America with nuclear weapons so as to succeed in some way.

Who put that idea in our brains?

Russians are reporting a warning to people who are inventing, purchasing, and ordering aggressive acts upon their declared legal sovereignty. They will nuke the aggressors as a means of defense according to their highest officials if I have the NEWS right.

Why would Russians be issuing these warnings and how does that somehow equate to us being defensive?

Russians and Chinese people are currently the defenders because they have not yet been corrupted successfully by The World Bank group.

World War III will be won by the Chinese only if the Independent Legal Power of China is corrupted well enough so that they participate in World War III, by some trick, by some act of aggression causing them to defend, and then when all is said and done, when the dust clears, The World Bank group takes over from within, takes over China and incorporates China into the Single Monopoly Money Business Cycle (Psycho), and then China becomes the aggressor.

Statesmen run Sovereign States. Some are Benevolent Dictators, some are very intelligent, moral, even religious, people. Not puppets. Look at the words and speeches written by Hugo Chavez for one example. As bad as they may be, even to their own people, they are not the sociopath types typical of puppets like Pol Pot financed by U.S.A., or The Shah of Iran financed by U.S.A., or how about those who turn, those puppets who are financed by U.S.A. and then they turn on their employers, like Saddam Hussein, and Osama Bin Obama.

George Washington was the first puppet here in U.S.A. inc. He was hired to run the defensive volunteer army under The Articles of Confederation and he botched that job, but his false front was kept up, and he was an overpowering character, a true example of the cult of personality, a Strong Man, a hired hit man, and he promised to retire. He broke his promise after Shays's Rebellion demonstrated just exactly how strong the force of Liberty (competition) was responsible for The Revolution, not George Washington with his authoritarian military dictatorship. It was the grass roots militia that was the power behind Liberty, not Georgie Boy.

George the First Strong Man in U.S.A. Inc. (LLC) was pulled out of retirement to enforce slavery under the new dictatorship called into being with The Constitution and it is all written in black and white, in English, unambiguously.

We have been the bad guys since 1788 if you mean "our" government.

We have been the overt and the covert aggressive war power for profit since 1788, the bad guys, the ones invading, seizing, torturing, and mass murdering for fun and profit since 1788, and if we, "We The People" can be so wrong, so misinformed, so used, so abused, so stupefied, then you may want to lend some credit to the Chinese, the Russians, the Iranians, the Venezuelans, the Cubans, and all the people who have not be taken over from within as well as we have, as we have been not only the worst legal power, we have been the worst fools for so long, as we claim that our aggression is good, just because we do it, just because we say so, by edict, by fiat.

If World War III goes off on schedule it will be OUR aggression that starts it, and OUR Legal Criminals will then dump us like an old shoe and move onto greener pastures in China IF they can overpower the Chinese people as effectively as they have overpowered us.

That is why they insist upon so much devastation so quickly so as to leave the best and brightest weak, as weak as can be - everywhere.

They hire George Washington's and Alexander Hamilton's to follow orders without question. I don't think Hugo Chavez, or Putin, or any of the Chinese leaders are hired by the people running The World Bank, not yet, those leaders of those people are sovereign, are autonomous, and they are competitors, and that is a nut to crack for Legal Criminals running the most powerful ONE LEGAL MONEY MONOPOLY.

Where is all the gold?

Where is the Gold that was in Fort Knox and in The World Trade Center, and at the New York FED?

If it is being shipped to China then someone is being turned, someone is being hired, incorporated, purchased, paid off, usurped, and welcomed into The Club.

Saddam Hussein, not a nice guy for sure, but a person who turned away, who left the fold, knew enough of the ways of Legal Crime to hire people who looked like him, so as to fool the assassins sent by the ONE LEGAL MONEY POWER, the most powerful people, once Hussein signed his own Declaration of Independence.

Did you get invited to join The Club? Are you ready to be a puppet dictator to enslave a Mid Easter country full of people that happens to be an area full of precious natural resources?

No?

Me neither.

Once in, once invited, once on the payroll, it isn't a healthy thing to quit before the job is done.

Obey, without question.

Seriously, thou shalt not question.

No need to read the fine print, the fine print is for the dupes, just know one thing, only one thing, and if you can't get that one thing straight, then we have ways of dealing with you.

Somethings are worse then death, or so the saying goes.

Not me saying. How about a link.

I'll find the link. I'll post it. We are almost at Liberty Day.

The speaker will be a survivor of the U.S.S. Liberty attack by the Zionist puppets hired to scorch the earth in Israel and neighboring lands. The ship was attacked by the Zionists to sink the ship and then blame the sinking on the Egyptians so as to start World War III in a big way. The plan didn't quite work out as planned but the survivor was told to shut the hell up about his lack of capacity to die on schedule.

Liberty Day

Time 39:

"Court Marshal, Penitentiary, or worse, and everyone knew what worse meant."

Questions:
"2) Does the fact that the video was from 2007 play into the nuclear capability factor?"

Nuclear war is aggressive or criminal: it is not defensive, or who fired the first shot? Who cast the first stone? How stupid can people get, what outrageous lie are people not willing to believe, how patently absurd can a lie get? What is the limit of gullibility?

When does your own mind get turned against you?

The existence of one Nuclear weapon, or one bio weapon for that matter, proves the fact that criminals have taken over the power of government. So, sure, there is a tit for tat logic to mutually assured destruction, if that were true in this case, but it isn't, we are the ones, the country, the Legal Crime Power, U.S.A., where the first aggressive use of nuclear war was ordered, and the orders were followed, and so any concept of defense against nuclear war has to be directed at us, not the Russians, not the Chinese, at our own lack of ability to stop "providing the means by which we suffer" as those provisions are used to make aggressive nuclear weapons, and worse.

"Khrushchev said in effect that the US would fall from within?"

On the concept of which POWER is the aggressive power and therefore which power is defensive, or who is throwing stones, and who is having to do whatever works to survive aggressive attack by stones, or nuclear wars, or lies, or threats of violence, or acts of violence upon the innocent, on that subject, history for a long time now shows that Russians and Chinese are not the aggressors.

The US fell in 1788 as far as the date when it "fell from within" because on that date the Legal Criminals took over and they started using their power to aggressively take more power: building a more effective world monopoly of power.

When the Chinese "fall from within" they will become the aggressors after World War III when they win IF, and it is a big IF in my mind, IF they can be maneuvered into participation in World War III, and then IF, and this is another big IF in my mind, IF the Chinese can "fall from within" after World War III, and then, having been infiltrated, taken over, they become aggressors.

How easy would it be to turn the Chinese people into aggressors after centuries of being defenders?

I don't know, but there is a history of a people who were defenders who were turned into aggressors and the time line is 1776 as defenders and then 1788 as aggressors: all nice and legal.

In China, right now, and for some time, has there been an effort to brain wash the Chinese people into thinking that Americans are bad and therefore Americans must be hated, hunted down, and punished for crimes against humanity including torture and mass murder?

It wouldn't take "brain washing" so much as merely communicating the actual facts, and then people who are ready to hate, and ready to punish, could be financed, armed, and then ordered to attack, yes, or no?

Where is the gold from Fort Knox?

Who pays the war Debts? Who collects the war debts?

Who calls the shots?

"Perhaps it takes the World Bank, or more succinctly the Legal Criminal individuals within that organization, time to hide behind different world powers so as to hide themselves from being the bad guys?"

That is my viewpoint. The most powerful people are the most powerful people for this reason and that reason, knowing it is one thing, being it is another thing. I'm not it. I'm not able to write myself a check for as much money as everyone else combined and get away with it legally for centuries. Now those most powerful people are so bold as to have that fact of their power published on their own official web pages and the victims say: you want us to jump how high?

Wave flags today, and how vigorously shall we wave flags today?

How many victims are there yet to fool, incorporate, or crush?

Who pays taxes now denominated in dollars and who will pay taxes when the new Boss replaces the old Boss with the new World Reserve Currency Denomination?

They change the color of the ink and the good guys become the bad guys?

If some people owe trillions then someone is collecting trillions, what is so difficult about following the money?

"Why are we at war in the Middle East?"

Too much competition exists in the Middle East and a way, but not the only way, to see that is to look into something called Islamic Finance.

Islamic Finance, last time I looked, is growing rapidly at a very fast doubling rate, or an exponential growth rate, and in Islamic Finance, last time I looked again, it was based upon mutual or equitable responsibility between lender and borrower, and there is no usury and therefore no reason to cause the issue of credit (based upon the good faith and credit of the people who produce valuable things) to become scarce so as to jack up the price so as to constitute the thing called usury.

If Islamic Finance is allowed to spread it is the same danger as if the Spirit of 1776 was allowed to spread, for the same reasons.

The Constitutional Convention was no such thing, that was an after the fact False Label covering up the crime of usurpation, as Shays's Rebellion proved how the Articles of Confederation were working as a Democratic Federated Republic, or a voluntary union of people, arranged in that way, and Whiskey produced by individual producers constituted a competitive form of money, and no money monopoly power can exist if competition is allowed, so that was crushed.

Now Islamic Finance is as dangerous to the Legal Monopoly Money Power as was the Spirit of 1776, where people made it a lawful duty to overthrow a criminal government, including lawful overthrowing of criminal government by allowing money competition, by access to ballots, with trial by jury, and if necessary with armed defense.

That was very competitive competition against Legal Crime, so it had to be crushed.

Islamic Finance has to be crushed, or incorporated, if I were to bet I'd bet on the need to crush it.

If in China the people there are allowed to be infected too much with the Spirit of Independence, then China would be targeted as the next fire to be put out, crushed, or corrupted, incorporated, taken over from within, anything but allowed to be sovereign and out of control, out of the Monopoly Control.

World War works best, destruction works best, for good reason, if the goal is to enslave, to divide and conquer, it is all in the book titled The Prince by Machiavelli, if my memory serves me well enough, and I've had that book on my re-reading list, but it is very difficult reading, go with what works, the tried and true methods.

Try bribery, try fraud, if that doesn't work then crush them.

In the Middle East there are way too many independent minded people running amok. Something must be done about it, same as the Independent minded people who fled Europe and England, runaway slaves, running to the Americas. Look what happened? Those runaway slaves declared their independence on paper, with signatures, no less, talk about unmitigated gall and audacity.

1776 The Spirit of Liberty

1788 Obedience shall not be questioned.

How many years have the people in the Middle East been acting as sovereigns, independent, free, liberated, in their own ways, disconnected from the Single Monopoly Money Power?

Who collects the oil profits?

What happened to the last few guys who severed the connection between the oil and the aggressive war profiteers?

Look up a guy named Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh.

"But it seems I cannot quit asking questions."

Good for you, and don't settle for inaccurate answers.

Joe

More x2

"But it seems I cannot quit asking questions."
“Good for you, and don't settle for inaccurate answers.”

I am sorry your mom is sick. I have not had to watch either of my parents suffer. My dad died instantly and my mom is still healthy. So I don't know what it feels like to not be able to help a parent when they cannot get well.

I have been direct herein and I hope it not to be too offensive.

“In more than 2 decades at communicating Liberty: this discussion, here, is the first example of equitable commerce in ideas, lasting more than a sound bite or two..”

You know and understand things that I want to know about, and I have an interest in you knowing Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior. If that door had not been left open it would have hit me on my way out. You have been willing to invest time; I have been willing to invest time. Most people are uninterested or unwilling to spend the time? I am always afraid my ignorance will not be worth your time. I do not have much power, so your patience in waiting to have equitable communication for 20 years may not build Rome.

“I trust in a Spiritual Connection because there are no other better concepts concerning all that I do not know, which is incomprehensibly vast, but my trust in printed words is less obvious to me.”

What does Spiritual Connection mean?

“I trust in your word, your interpretations of printed words, more so than I trust the printed words, if that means anything to you.”

That concerns me. Do not trust my words. God’s Word is only due trust. My words are interpretations or understandings. I am fallible. God’s Word is infallible. I can see though, that you might find my explanations understandable. It is always important though when allowing someone to teach or explain the Bible to consider whether that teaching or explanation is contrary to what the Bible itself may say. The Bible is not understood by the natural man, or the unregenerate man, or the man who has not been born again. The Holy Spirit is our teacher and the Holy Spirit comes and abides within upon faith in Christ.

1 Corinthians 2:14”But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come , he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear , that shall he speak : and he will shew you things to come .

2 Peter 1:20 “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.”

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

“You have not demonstrated anything that could cause me to distrust your word, within the boundaries of common sense, we are, after all, only human.”

I am concerned that you are an anti American Socialist Communist. You want me to read the Communist Manifesto, Equitable Love, Warren who was nearly communist, you say Communism and Socialism have been redefined, you believe there is a difference between the working class and ruling class (or whatever that class is called), you say that China and Russia are not aggressors. Just how did communism spread from the Soviet Union to Cuba from China to North Korea, North Vietnam, Cambodia; and if I have missed any communist countries you will have to remember my ignorance. The spread of Communism was not peaceful. And now the US (I don’t know what else to call it) is exporting “Democracy” and that is not peaceful. But I don’t think we have always been an aggressor nation. It seems we got pulled into WW I & II unless that history has been rewritten as well. But we didn’t start those wars did we? You tell me the Beloved George Washington was a Legal Criminal instead of the Father of our Country. I thought Israel was a good country and then I have to watch the USS Liberty Link you gave me and I cannot understand. I think it had something to do with Johnson who I think killed Kennedy by some plot. But I don’t know. I don’t understand. I know nothing and I feel like it is one of those dictionary days again. Which makes me also feel like I should keep my guard up because what if you are a communist socialist anti american over there in that land of the “fruits and nuts” and communist card carrying hollywood crowd? Would you be trying to subvert me? All this causes me to feel shaken and unable to think; not because it hurts my brain but it makes me feel blank. The only think I cannot understand is that you do not advocate violence which I think those other communists did because millions were killed and starved. You advocate individuality and anarchism I guess? Is that how those other revolutions started? I don’t know, but I have never entertained the lines of thinking you seem advocate. All the while the Government of the Country I live in (is that the way I am supposed to say it?) is removing liberties and arming institutions on its home turf and becoming a police state while the UN is running roughshod over American communities. I am afraid. I don’t know if you are trustworthy because I don’t think I am supposed to think the words Communism and Socialism are good words. I am afraid because my Government has supposedly added Liberty Lovers to the list of terrorists. Can you please tell me in plain English exactly what political philosophy you advocate without making me read a long document written over 100 years ago.

“Past me = deeds are less good, for me, and less good for anyone else connected to me.
Me now = deeds are more good, for me, and better for anyone else connected to me. “

Jeff was always “good” and yet he still needed a Savior, and found him at age 19. We all do. You cannot be good enough to undo any less good.

“Who is the judge? I don't trust ONLY my own judgement, my mind is open, honestly, for competitive judgements, but who has the power to know better?”

God is The Judge.

ME: "One needs to be sure one is trusting the True Foundation which is the only Honest Foundation."

I Corinthians 3:11 “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ”

Jesus is the chief corner stone:
http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/ephesians/passage.aspx?q=...
http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/1-peter/passage.aspx?q=1-...

“If I have a fear then my fear is to be incapable of accessing the Spiritual Connection when failing to do so results in very bad things for many people not just me. I will be in a time and a place where I am BEFORE a moment of decision, and in NEED of knowing better, and I won't know better in time, and I will step AFTER the moment BEFORE and my step will be wrong, very, very, very wrong not only for me, but for all that I love.”

I realize you are using the above statement with 2 more paragraphs about concern and love to balance fear out, but I also want to add: Psalms 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. And back in vs 11 “Thy word have I hid in my heart that I might not sin against thee.” When we know God’s word our way is lighted for us.

Luke 12:11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer , or what ye shall say :12For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say .

“Now we are struggling to reduce the debt payments that are swallowing us up and the tax man demands more, this is like night and day…We are going strong and no taxes, and then the rug is pulled out from under us, over night, and we are now told that we owe many zeros, and we have to borrow to pay the demands for income we don't have?”

I think it is disgusting to work hard and not even be able to pay taxes. I could say I am sorry, but that would sound trite, but I don’t know what else to say. It is disgusting and unfair and you should be able to keep the fruit of your labor and that bottle better tip upside down. Why keep trying to work and make a living when they take it all away. What incentive is left? It doesn’t make any sense. I AM sorry.

RE Commission: We went and looked at some property the other day...there was 9% going to reality interests: 3% to 3 different commission entities. Jeff said he was used to seeing 6%.

“…but a time will come when there is another Hitler, on the front pages, and everyone will then know who the enemy is, and it will be a Chinese face.”

Are you saying Hitler was not bad? Or was he propped up for a purpose? It seems like China already had their Hitler…Mao?

“I was asked at the bank if I was doing anything for the holiday, and I was beaming with delight at all the responses I could offer, in all honesty.”

Saturday we went to a 4th of July parade in the Walmart town up the road. After the color guard the next 15 minutes was taken by the Shriners. I thought it a bit ridiculous as they had nothing at all to do with the 4th. I don’t know what that was all about, but I did have a blast meeting the candidates as they came by shaking hands and giving out their paraphernalia. If there was a democrat I gave their stuff back to them and told them to keep their healthcare too. I know that was not very nice but I was trying to make a point. If they were republicans I asked them how they stood on Ron Paul. Then I made them give me specifics when they said they agreed with most of his ideology. I told one of the candidates to please educate himself regarding the wars. I asked several if they believed in preemptive war. . I even made it a point to shake Vicky Hartzler’s hand and tell her that I had written her about NDAA and the Patriot Act and that I thought she should stand with Ron Paul. She made a quick departure to the other side of the street. I think I embarrassed Jeff with my boisterous questioning. But here it was an Independence Celebration, our Liberties have been and are being taken and we want to play politics and pretend like everything is OK while the Shriners take the first 15 minutes and the kids gather candy and trinkets thrown to them, and the town grocer, a mafia family, passed out popsicles as everyone smiled and took one. I didn’t burn my SS card though of course there is always tomorrow.

“Blow back is a positive score, a return on investment, a desired outcome…”

When Ron Paul talks about blow back he talks about consequences that cause other countries to hate us, not me and you, the US, not the US, but whoever us is in this case, or is it me and you and the individuals of the US? Is that the desired outcome?

“There is no way to use reason at this level, it is incomprehensible. We are sold a lot of lies and this is one of them: for us to think that Russia/China has some person or some group that will attack America with nuclear weapons so as to succeed in some way. Who put that idea in our brains?”

I dunno, I guess because Cuba had them pointing at us when I was a little girl? I guess because Regan wanted SDI? I guess because they want us to be afraid of other countries. I don’t know.

Seems I remember a comment earlier back in the vast expanse made by you about not investing in an underground shelter. Are those just to hide in during a war or for nuclear war? Those things are being set up with lots of supplies you know.

“Why would Russians be issuing these warnings and how does that somehow equate to us being defensive?”

Because we are being aggressive? How do you know that the Russians/Chinese are not being controlled by the World Bank as well and aren’t pulling certain strings to lure the US into WWIII so as to hide the real aggressors? Wasn’t there some German funding going on in WWII while Stalin was our ally? Maybe the World Bank plays in 3D?

“We have been the overt and the covert aggressive war power for profit since 1788, the bad guys, the ones invading, seizing, torturing, and mass murdering for fun and profit since 1788, and if we, "We The People" can be so wrong, so misinformed, so used, so abused, so stupefied, then you may want to lend some credit to the Chinese, the Russians, the Iranians, the Venezuelans, the Cubans, and all the people who have not be taken over from within as well as we have, as we have been not only the worst legal power, we have been the worst fools for so long, as we claim that our aggression is good, just because we do it, just because we say so, by edict, by fiat.”

I am having a very hard time with this reaching back to 1788. I have a very hard time comparing the USA to those other countries which underwent revolutions that turned on their own people and murdered them by the millions to include France. We have had a single stable form of Government for over 200 years. So I am having a hard time putting the pieces together and am not so sure I want to rewash my brain just of yet. No, not me, not us, not our country, we couldn’t be that terrible. And it is not me and us and our country. It is those few criminals who control the masses and cause them to do their bidding. But I am still having a hard time bringing it home to roost. I am not going to elevate any not so benevolent dictators above my country. We are supposed to be the good guys in the white hat helping people. I can’t wrap my head around it.

“If World War III goes off on schedule it will be OUR aggression that starts it, and OUR Legal Criminals will then dump us like an old shoe and move onto greener pastures in China IF they can overpower the Chinese people as effectively as they have overpowered us.”

I listened to Alex Jones rerun last night and I think he used the term that we were being raped. I cannot understand how we have let this happen.

“They hire George Washington's and Alexander Hamilton's to follow orders without question. I don't think Hugo Chavez, or Putin, or any of the Chinese leaders are hired by the people running The World Bank, not yet, those leaders of those people are sovereign, are autonomous, and they are competitors, and that is a nut to crack for Legal Criminals running the most powerful ONE LEGAL MONEY MONOPOLY.”

But those countries were all taken over by dictators and their own people tortured and slaughtered. What was that all about? The best and brightest among them tortured and killed. Are you sure that those changes of governments have not already been implemented in those countries? That is the way I see it. RE your words: “The wrong dictator is the wrong dictator the first time, and then the second time, for "good" reason.” I think those countries have already been weakened and the people are slaves more so than we. We are lucky to be share croppers. Except I would say when you have to take out a loan to pay taxes you might consider yourself past the share cropper stage. And that makes me mad and sorry.

Liberty Day
Time 39:
"Court Marshal, Penitentiary, or worse, and everyone knew what worse meant."

So why are they talking now? I am sickened by that whole event. Why did Israel bomb us? Why did Johnson cover it up. I cannot understand. The way those soldiers were treated makes me angry like your taxes. I am sorry for them and I am mad. Were we being aggressors? Was Israel afraid of us? I guess if we had wanted to fight with them we would have had the perfect opportunity since they bombed our ship. So why? Why were our ships over there? Why weren’t we minding our own business as Ron Paul would say. Could have had us minded our own business? That is what I got down voted for asking, however, maybe inappropriately stated. The other thing about that link you gave me I read the YouTube comments under it. The poster seems pretty anti-semetic, or anti-zionist, and I don’t understand all that either. Does anyone or is it just conspiracy that there is a problem with zionism. Why did Israel get a homeland after WWII? Some people have that hooked up with the Rockefellers I think or one of those big names.

“Nuclear war is aggressive or criminal: it is not defensive, or who fired the first shot?”

I thought when we bombed Japan nukes were used to make a quick end of the war thus defensively saving American lives. Did we want to be at war with Japan?

“history for a long time now shows that Russians and Chinese are not the aggressors.”

What was Russia doing in Afghanistan? Why is it their Russian arms that we have to fight against in Korea and Vietnam etc? It seems like they supply arms as well. What about all those nukes after USSR dissolved? Have they been accounted for like the gold in Fort Knox and the World Trade Center? If we start WWIII how do you know that the Chinese will not use nukes as defense to rid the world of the ills of America? We sure will be a worn out shoe, and if I were Legal Criminals wanting to move off shore, I would want to do the old homeland in so that it would not be a threat should we ever find Liberty again.

“The US fell in 1788 as far as the date when it "fell from within" because on that date the Legal Criminals took over and they started using their power to aggressively take more power: building a more effective world monopoly of power.”

Is that the kind of talk that gives rise to “Your own working class will bury you,"[] a reference to the Marxist saying, "The proletariat is the undertaker of capitalism", based on the concluding statement in Chapter 1 of the Communist Manifesto: "What the bourgeoisie therefore produces, above all, are its own grave-diggers. Its fall and the victory of the proletariat are equally inevitable"?. It seems when the workers arise blood is shed.

“How easy would it be to turn the Chinese people into aggressors after centuries of being defenders?”

The Chinese supported the Khmer Rouge which conducted a genocide that claimed the lives of more than 1.7 million Cambodians. What are you talking about the Chinese not being aggressors? How about if we ask any of the 1.7 million who were killed if they were aggressively killed. China has cultivated strong ties with Cambodia, gaining access to its sea ports that can allow China to exploit oil reserves in the Gulf of Tonkin . Hmmm Legal Crime at work?

“It wouldn't take "brain washing" so much as merely communicating the actual facts, and then people who are ready to hate, and ready to punish, could be financed, armed, and then ordered to attack, yes, or no?”

I thought the USA was going to start WWIII?

Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh appeared to be tied with the Tudeh Party so the CIA and MI6 took him out. Maybe the Legal Criminals created Marxism as an Agent Provocateur in the 3D scheme of things? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tudeh_Party_of_Iran

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

OK and here are:

Comments in response to: http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2581453 (Fill the Blank with Rhythm)

You: “Which reminds me of which came first, the chicken or the egg?”

The chicken of course! Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying , Be fruitful , and multiply , and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

You: “Which came first, good government or legal crime?”

Good government of course! Genesis 1:26 And God said , Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it : and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29 And God said , Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

And now I ask you,

Which came first: light or the sun?

Which came first: evening or morning?
___________________________________
RE: Celente being evil: “You can't wear the shoe.”

Perhaps, but when you get on your imaginary soap box in reply to “bear,” I think you are trying to put that shoe on bear. You don’t like bear to use the nebulous word “we,” I do not think using the general term we, which does not necessarily include Josf, but those like-minded along with me, is nearly as offensive as replying directly to bear offering a shoe that does not fit. I take things personally so I think you are talking to me, but I do not mind you using a soap box to address others as well, who may be listening, who could possibly wear that shoe. Perhaps a preface would be in order? Just sayin.

Maybe I will have to start using search to find all my “we”s and fix them, as I have been using that nebulous term all my life and it hasn’t been until the DP that I have found people who do not want “we” to be used. However, I could easily say, if the “we” shoe doesn’t fit, don’t include yourself; don’t wear it. Just sayin.

“Those evil messengers, how dare they bring news of evil things?”

And the Bible brings news of evil things and should be treated the same way, as a good messenger, even though some of the message may be bad for some of the folks, but not for all! Did you know the word “Gospel” is translated “Good News.” What would that good news be?
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“Going back to those days when a working Democratic Federated Republic worked the example is provided with Whiskey as money.”

What if I didn’t want any whiskey as money? Or were there other uses than just drinking it? Or should I just have moved to another state with preferable money?
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“When the government refuses payment in anything other than Gold, when no one has Gold, because those criminals took over that government, then it may be time to move to Vermont where the bad guys haven't completely taken over the law power.”

Instead of Vermont, how about New Hampshire? Do you know about this? http://freestateproject.org/intro . It was mentioned on DP here: http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2590500 . Seems they want 20,000 liberty minded individuals to move to New Hampshire because the current population is such that 20,000 like-minded individuals could actually make a difference in the political direction of the state.

Also noticed today that that on the front page of the DP it says New Hampshire has reinstated Jury Nullification, although somewhat nebulous in its language the governor feels it is a start in the right direction.
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“Why is Pay Pal not knowable as a competitive currency? It isn't the one Legal Money.”

I think there was a time where one could pay bills with paypal. That option went away. I don’t know if it is back as I have been out of the loop for 9 months or so. But at one time, I suppose one could convert just about anything [legal] of value to bill payment without going thru the money monopoly. Now paypal funds can be sent to a bank account and I suppose electronic transfer works the same way, but it goes thru the bank so that may connect to the Fed Reserve? I don’t know. Plus since the dollar has been doubled one does not have as much buying power as in bill payment. The article I sell from my house may sell for the same price, but when I go to buy gas I have to pay 30-50% more for it.

“Pay Pal was powered by accuracy, honesty, and a capacity to create a demand, and then fill the demand, and then the whole thing was sold for Legal Money, the guys made the thing liquid, they cashed in, and they then had enough of that fraud stuff to start other things.”

It was always a pleasure to deal with the Paypal help desk. They were always polite and helpful and got to the bottom of the matter with a fix…unlike dealing with eBay.
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“I'm just saying that you make sandwiches, tomatoes in jars, trips to here and there for the Amish, keep a family whole, and how is that not much more valuable than paper dollars?”

It could be said because I do it for no cost? It is a great value for everyone but me, but then again the non-monetary return I receive is priceless! And I suppose I would not trade it for anything. Thank you for the encouragement. I sometimes get lost in effort and do not realize what I give, but perhaps that is the way it should be or I might get the big head.

“how can you be wearing the same shoe as someone who willfully pays tax (while cheating on tax forms) so as to kill Muslims, or torture rag heads, or blow up hospitals in Iraq, or take over the banana Republic in Guatemala?”

Do you actually think people willfully pay for that? I am thinking that perhaps people do not realize it. Like me with head in the sand for years on end rallied around “United We Stand.”

“The Legal Criminals don't actually need your dollars, they can make out a check with 13 zeros on it every day until the end of time and spend it at will. “

So they only take them to make me and every other victim less powerful so Legal Crime can be maintained? And perhaps because they are sociopaths and want others to suffer: Both at the front end of the money tunnel and the other end in the Middle East?
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“Free Love to Andrews, in my opinion, is when two people find a spiritual connection compared to two people being lawfully joined according to a nebulous due process of law. Why confuse the two?”

I think I am hearing two different problems with marriage: 1) Some women were being victimized; 2) Some marriages did not have equitable adjustment.

There is a simple solution to number 1. And that has to do with meet punishment for the victimizer.

It is number 2 with which I have a problem accepting as a problem. For better or for worse…for rich or for poor…in sickness and in health…I will be faithful to that other Sovereign Individual to whom I have used my Sovereign Word as a pledge my Sovereign Self and vice versa (it is not a one way street).

I know a number of women, who have been left high and dry when their so called husbands found equitable adjustment, or spiritual adjustment necessary (or whatever innocuous term one would like to use to remove or shift reality) and left wife and kids to fend for themselves. I think it is an irresponsible travesty comparable to marriage rape, but perhaps at the opposite end of the scale? Those women were emotionally devastated and their children, what did they learn: To stick to a marriage partner or to break a contract? The reason I see it comparable to marriage rape is because the best youthful years of the woman and her body are used by that husband and then he just up and leaves her. She is left to live alone or with the prospect of finding someone who wants a used up baby bearing body in exchange for equitable adjustment. I remember reading Elvis Presley had a problem with that type of body…

Also after I read that marriage discourse, it took me a week or so to quit looking at other people wondering if they had one of those equitable adjustments going in their private life. I think that can be a Pandora’s box.
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“Mr. James should go straight to a spiritual connection i.e. hell according to Mr. James. Is that fair? Is the equitable?”

If Mr. Andrews was referring to Mr. James going to anyone but his own wife for that spiritual connection then the answers are, “No” & “No.”

“Andrews was a abolitionist who didn't see any difference between Black slaves and Women slaves, all slaves, every last one, must be freed, or none are free.”
“I think there must be a quote in the Bible that says as much, or that book isn't worth much to me.”

It is difficult for me to completely understand all of the implications of Andrews’ day because I live in the 20 & 21st century. I do not even understand my grandmothers generation, and I guess also a bit naïve, but how about this as a competitive viewpoint: http://www.voluntaryist.com/spooner/againstwomansuffrage.html .

A wife is not a slave or a commodity. A wife is a help meet. Genesis 2:18 And the LORD God said , It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. 19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. 21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.23 And Adam said , This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

No marriage license, just one flesh for life: A help “meet” for her husband/partner for life. A help meet is not one word. It is two. Help is the noun and Meet is the adjective. It is a helper made “meet” or just right (by God) for that other half of the one flesh. Everything God made he spoke into existence or formed from the ground. Woman was fashioned by the hand of God from man’s own body. How special is that? Women are completely different and special. Handmade! When a husband and wife join and become one flesh once again that does not mean the wife becomes only the husband and that he is the whole. It means that if you were to take 2 different colors of clay and press them together and shape them into a ball they are a single shape working together each retaining its own color and distinction.. Wives do not have less equal rolls, they have different rolls. Take the wife out of that ball and see how well it rolls…like a lopsided tire. That is the way God made it and he said it was “Very Good.” Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Male and Female created he them. God actually breathed the breath of life in to the human and gave him a soul. That makes us different than animals. Counterfeit slavery is a perversion because it does not recognize a human as a human but as less than a human. Counterfeit marriage does not recognize a woman as an equal counterpart, but a a slave or commodity.

The problem is not with marriage…the problem is with the heart.

Jesus said because of the hardness of your heart Moses wrote the law for divorce. But that it was not that way from the beginning..(The Pharisees were the “Religious Police” of the day who made it their mission in life to make sure everyone was “living up” to the man-made additions to the Mosaic Law.) On Divorce:

Matthew 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?4And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read , that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,5And said , For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together , let not man put asunder .7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away ? 8 He saith unto them , Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.9And I say unto you , Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery : and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery .10His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry . 11But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given . 12For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

That adultery deal is pretty hard to stomach, and probably more so at this time because it is so common, but it comes from the fact that when a man and wife join they become one flesh. It seems the disciples we so taken back they thought it best not to marry at all?

Moving on to slavery…These are my own opinions and I do not fully understand the history of slavery from the beginning. From what I can understand the Bible discusses how to treat a slave, but the term used is a manservant or maidservant. Perhaps slave is a counterfeit term…a perversion of being a servant.? Just like those political terms I was using that were changed?

True Reason for Servants: When one cannot pay their debts (either monetarily or legally) they sell themselves into bondage to pay their debts. This may include themselves and family members because the family is a unit It may not seem fair, but those people in the family may also have contributed to debts that cannot be paid. I think this is the kind of the servitude that which the Bible refers, however I do not know for sure. In my understanding the thought is: I cannot or did not manage my affairs alone so I join myself to you so that I might have food, shelter, and protection. Perhaps some are servants taken in war? I do not know. This type of servitude does not include sexual perversion which is anathema. I think we can see that from the marriage discussion. The problem would arise when evil people are masters. Servitude may turn to slavery?

Counterfeit Reason for Slavery: When a slave ship pulls up to the African coast and kidnaps and tortures innocent victims to fulfill a demand for labor with Crime made Legal. Human trafficking for evil. Human trafficking is not something I know a lot about. Again naivety. I guess when one lives in their own little happy life it is hard to imagine such evil outside those walls in the great wide world. I looked just a little to see if there were any Bible references to slavery since it is not a subject that I deal with (other than be being a slave to Christ, by choice). I saw information on human trafficking. It is evil; it is a perversion. It is done by trickery. Or perhaps some evil parents choose that for their children. The Bible in no way condones that type of evil.

The inscription on the Liberty Bell is Leviticus 25:10 Here is that full verse quoted: “And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubilee unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family.”

Read up on the year of Jubilee, God’s Economy. Everything is reset each 50 years. No chance for Legal Crime to become a dominant factor? http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/leviticus/25.html

• You will also find that the Hebrews were allowed to buy, and I suppose that would mean own, people of other nationalities. However they were to include them in the festivities of life. Deuteronomy 16:11 And thou shalt rejoice before the LORD thy God, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite that is within thy gates, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are among you, in the place which the LORD thy God hath chosen to place his name there.

New Testament where there is servitude discussed.

Ephesians 6:5Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;6Not with eye service, as men pleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;7With good will doing service , as to the Lord, and not to men:8Knowing that whatsoever *good thing any man doeth , the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.9And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your *Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

Colossians 3:17And whatsoever ye do *in word or *deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.18Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.19Husbands, love your wives, and benot bitteragainst them.20Children, obey your parents in all things: for this is well pleasing unto the Lord.21Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged . 22Servants, obeyin all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearingGod:23And whatsoever *ye do , do it heartily *, as to the Lord, and not unto men;24Knowingthat of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.25But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done : and there is no respect of persons. 4:1Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.

I Timothy 6:1Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed . 2And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service , because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort

Galatians 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” [referring to believers] In God’s economy there is no respect or difference in the way he treats persons regardless of their station in l ife.

Thoughts on current slavery in these United States:

The travesty of human trafficking was discussed above.

Those who are in prison. Let’s suppose those are the type of people who were sold into slavery back in the day. Let me ask, would some of those prisoners rather be joined to a kind master and perhaps learn reform and not be sexually abused and abused in the prison system? Just a thought that came to me this morning. They are slaves to the state, but the state isn’t allowed to use their labor because it would be cruel and unusual punishment. I suppose that is because sociopaths are the ones who elevate themselves to positions of master and abuse the prison population. In that case the sociopath should be a prisoner as well. I think the problem is that Legal Crime is allowed so then instead of fixing the problem we create a problem. How about this. Prison is a Legal Criminal monopoly. They take our taxes and house criminals. Instead of non violent criminals working in my yard or doing my laundry etc I am paying them to sit eat and watch TV and perhaps become a violent criminal at the abuse of the system while Jeff works a multitude of jobs to make ends meet. Maybe they could mow those extra lawns. What is wrong with that type of servitude? I might get hurt, they might escape, and on and on so we better take your money and keep them in prison. I suppose my ideas are far fetched, but I have just now thought of them because slavery is not something that I have considered much other than my grandfather was a bigot from South Carolina and hated blacks and women. He had a heart problem, and I do not mean the organ. So I suppose that if he had a servant that person would be a slave. How about if we match up the worse criminals with the bigots? Then they can both get their fair due/meet their match. I am being sarcastic. (I did love my grandfather, I just cannot understand his way.)

Slavery: Every American in the United States is one because of that national debt clock. Without choice, we are servant to the lender. We work nearly 6 months out of the year to pay taxes. That is slavery. People who can work, but will not work are masters while we the working families pay their way. That is slavery. Slavery has not been abolished, it has been changed from a true version to a counterfeit version to another counterfeit version. Our family is owned by every family that can but will not support itself. Our family is owned by a government who will not spend within a constitutionally limited budget. (By that I mean spend for nothing that is not specifically allowed for in the US constitution.) It is time for that Liberty Bell to Ring!!!

Proverbs 22:7 The rich ruleth over the poor , and the borrower is servant to the lender .

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

We are to be slaves to love.,,

See what happens when people will not live according to the Word of God? Humanity degenerates into counterfeit culture and society. Men do not love their wives and vice versa…people kidnap innocent human beings and make them property.

“I think there must be a quote in the Bible that says as much, or that book isn't worth much to me.”

If you would like further Biblical discussion I will oblige. However, if you do not have any use for the Bible, you may want to consider the Communist Party USA:

The CPUSA constitution and program
According to its 2001 Constitution, the party operates on the principle of democratic centralism, its highest authority being the quadrennial National Convention. Article VI, Section 3 of the 2001 Constitution lays out certain positions as non-negotiable:
"struggle for the unity of the working class, against all forms of national oppression, national chauvinism, discrimination and segregation, against all racist ideologies and practices… against all manifestations of male supremacy and discrimination against women… against homophobia and all manifestations of discrimination against gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people…"[50]

It is the communist party agenda to bring solutions to these problems of inequity: Divide & conquer? Agitation between the classes, races ideologies and practices: A good crisis created and not wasted? Each individual separated in power and left defenseless for an agent provocateur? It seems to me that perhaps those agents have been at work in America for a while now. Perhaps thru the work of Andrews?

You may think me a narrow minded fool and slanderous against women, but I have been thinking since 2010 that perhaps a woman’s ability to vote has driven us to the point of Criminal dominance (except I didn’t use the word criminal then). I am not telling you this to be right, but would be happy to entertain a competitive viewpoint so that I might see that I am wrong. Both my unattached mother and sister in laws voted Obama. My mother-in-law’s slogan: “Mama for Obama.” She even told me in February that they (politicians) were all criminals as she has become disillusioned with Obama now. I tried to talk to her about Ron Paul, but she, an 80 year old, told me that he a 78 year old was senile. I can’t even talk sense with her, I love her and respect her opinion so I do not trample it, but rather back off. Part of my thinking is that women think with their hearts, not just their heads. I hesitate to say so, as it may appear to be a sexist comment, but it is my opinion, not scripture. However, it was Eve who was deceived and gave to her husband to eat along with her. I am not degrading women, just stating what I think, which may be unsubstantiated, but consider the definition of medical sociopaths and the way their brains are wired. Women’s brains are wired differently than that of a man. Something happens to the male child during pregnancy to change his brain. I can give further info on that if you want to know. I can look it up. I suppose I am way off, but I would be happy to have Jeff cast our vote. What difference would it really make if we both agreed or did not agree? Maybe there would be less votes to count and we would need machine trickery to do the job for us.

I also recently read an article about how the House of Representatives is off balance with the population comparative to what it was when it was initiated. I wonder, when women were granted the right to vote, were the representative automatically doubled? When Negros were given the right to vote, was the representative ratio commensurate with the new influx of voters? As the population has grown, has the representative ratio kept up? Perhaps that is another problem. To few representatives who can be bought and paid for representing too many people so few of them truly face responsibility of representing so many individuals.

"My interpretation of what Andrews has worked on, all his life, is such that if you want to bend your knee to God, then he is all for your decision to do so, so long as you don't send an army to slaughter all those people who don't decide, on their own, to bed their knees to your God.”

Agreed, no armies necessary. Only preachers: Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed ? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard ? and how shall they hear without a preacher ?

If someone doesn’t want to hear, Jesus said to wipe the dust from your feet as a statement. Luke 9:5 “And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.” He did not say to pull out a sword.

Counterfeit Christianity became apparent under Constantine. Legal Criminals have used religion to control and manipulate the masses. A little axiom…the difference between religion and True Christianity:

Religion is man reaching to God
True Christianity is God reaching to man

1 John 4:4 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.15Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.17Herein is our love made perfect , that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is , so are we in this world.18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment . He that feareth is not made perfect in love.19We love him, because he first loved us.20If a man say , I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen , how can he love God whom he hath not seen ? 21And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
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Me: "All I can think to say is, most people today use the terms as they are meant today and not as they were meant 250 years ago."
YOU: I don't agree. Roughly half of the people who use the word democracy use the word to mean something good, not something bad, and that has to be that way so as to divide and conquer the targets.

Explain your above statement please. What is the good definition and what is the bad definition. Who uses which? Do you mean those that adhere to http://www.anarchism.net/scienceofsociety.htm are using the good definition? Who uses those definitions?
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ME: "I can’t even trust the dictionary anymore…what do you think that is like?"
YOU: I've been at a time when the darkness of doom appeared to be insurmountable, if that means anything to you, but not trusting the dictionary now, to me, is a Liberating thought, so it is past time for you to start defining words so as to have words mean something to you, and trust is a good start.

I like absolutes. Why even bother to spell correctly if the dictionary is naught? Why can’t words in the dictionary be the words as they are defined?

“Can you trust that a politician may lie?”

I am such a Pollyanna I didn’t realize politicians would actually lie to get elected. I guess when one isn’t a liar it is hard to understand that someone would lie to gain advantage. My first understanding was when Bush 1 said “No New Taxes” and then raised taxes. That was part of my awakening, but I still slept on.

“Can you trust that you may be fooled?”

Absolutely, if I do not stand on the Word of God and study to rightly divide the truth of the Word I will be deceived.

“Can you trust that evil things may appear to be good?”

Absolutely. Satan is a counterfeiter

“Can you trust that you may find value in the dictionary still?”

Yes, it gives correct spellings and correct meanings, but I suppose one has to understand that meanings and spellings change over time. I suppose that those meanings can be intentionally manipulated for evil, but I do not know how one can get back to original meaning if no one knows what the meaning is and if media touts the wrong meaning as the true meaning. Pretty sad…just make the meaning of a word disappear because it brings too much competition to the Legal Criminal Monopoly. But I do not know what can be done about it other than knowing for myself, but what good does it do for me to use a word that has a different connotation at the present. People will not even understand my meaning if I use the word. They would understand something that I was not saying.

“If you find a word in the dictionary where the same word has opposite meanings can you then see potential for confusion for those who are not aware of the opposite meanings?”

That is a given with the English language. The same words can have opposite meanings. I can’t remember what it is called, but I told you about it early on. Ignoring the fact instead of knowing better is not the answer. One needs to know both meanings and if the meaning cannot be understood by the context around it than that word needs to be defined with speaking such that the intended meaning is known.

“This is so funny to me, since you are a fountain of hope.”

I am feeling more hopeful again. That was a rough concept for me to accept regarding the dictionary, and I am not so sure I am accepting the fact that I cannot trust the dictionary. Now, let me be funny…who is JK to tell me that I cannot use the dictionary as a reference source? Oh, but just now I thought of Drs who rely on online information to treat patients. If that information is wrong…the patient is in big trouble. I guess I am not ready to have the dictionary issue completely resolved in my mind. Sticks & Stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me? Or can they? At any rate I am not going to let it trouble me.

“What does the Bible say about that too? Children are our teachers no?”

Jesus said except you have faith as a little child you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mark 10: 13And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. 14But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased , and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.15Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter there in .16And he took them up in his arms , put his hands upon them, and blessed them.

ME: "Please do not be fooled."
YOU: I sure as hell don't want to be fooled.

And you won’t be if you can learn from a child to have child-like faith. I seem to remember a JK discussion of what a 2 year old is. God is God, we are not. We are but children. We must approach God as such. (Please excuse my use of we.)

Luke 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father , will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?12Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?13If ye then, being evil [in comparison to Holy God], know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
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Thought crime.
"Bummer, I really wanted to play the piano. I’d really like to sing and clap and even dance."

Why is being honest a thought crime? I might want to be an artist that can paint or draw…that does not mean I will be able to paint or draw (I tried because it looked fun). I always thought I would like to decorate cakes and make flower arrangements. (I tried it and did not have the artistic freedom to create without being overly critical of my work.) However, I like gardening and it comes naturally, even though it requires physical labor I am in a way one with it. I like to cook. I can use a recipe or I can make one up. I am in a sense one with it. It comes natural. I can feel it.. It is not separate from me.

Your best asset and you turn away from it? Recognizing a lack of rhythm is essential for developing it. You have a heart, it is a metronome, find that frequency and let it keep time….

I can’t feel my heart beating and if I try to take my pulse after exercising I cannot tell whether or not I am counting my pulse or if I am adding a number here or there. I am sure those things must take practice. I can’t pick out timing in music on the radio. I don’t know if it is 4/4 or 3/4 or what. I can’t hear the dominant beat. Jeff can. When I play the piano I cannot feel the music. I am not sure if I heard any of the voices even though I played somewhat with 2 hands. I know I never heard a 3rd voice. I don’t even know what that would be. I cannot make up a song. I might be able to pick out some notes to a song I know…thru trial and error. I feel as if playing is not part of me or that I am not one with what I am doing. It is like I am alienated from it. I cannot feel it…My piano teacher would not let me say “and” for ½ a beat or something like that. It was more than 15 years ago so I cannot remember well. I left my piano in Texas; gave it to the next door neighbor instead of moving it. My band teacher drew frownie faces on my clarinet music pages when I was in 4th grade… I guess I didn’t have it then either. Can you feel the music when you play? You must have talent and enjoy music? How long have you played the piano?

If a talent is not resident or is too deep or too scarce should it be mined?
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Perhaps the Deceiver has been so busy accusing God of not being God that some of mankind in general have accepted a theory that God is not Creator and missed the point of how creation and societal order was set up from the beginning? Love which results in equitable conditions for all?

Perhaps man seeing man’s problems tried to solve problems with man’s thinking instead of asking man’s creator how to solve the problems? Perhaps man made problems so that man could solve problems leaving God out of the equation? I hope my use of man is ok, it is meant as non-gender and as whoever individually was responsible which may or may not have been a corporate effort.

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying , Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat : 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die . 18 And the LORD God said , It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made . And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said , Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said , Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die . 4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die : 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened , and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise , she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat , and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat . 7 And the eyes of them both were opened , and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together , and made themselvesaprons.8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden

Why did Eve state that it was wrong to even touch the fruit when clearly God only said not to eat it?

Why did the Deceiver separate God’s Creation which God made in his Very Own Eternal Image from God?

Perhaps that was the first breakdown of society?

Perhaps the Deceiver wanted man to listen to him instead of God and since man is so busy hiding himself from God he does not seek God’s plan for the solutions to life’s inequities?

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do . He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal , and to kill , and to destroy : I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Is Satan called a thief because he stole God’s Creation for his own sociopathic pleasure?

Why did God allow this? Is it because man is a free-agent, and God is not a dictator? Who then is the dictator?

Speaking of bait and switch, I am not nearly as concerned about the dictionary as I am about Joe’s eternal soul.

James 4:14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away .

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die , but after this the judgment:

Revelation 22:12 And, behold , I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be .13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.17And the Spirit and the bride say , Come . And let him that heareth say , Come . And let him that is athirst come . And whosoever will , let him take the water of life freely

http://www.biblestudytools.com/kjv/john/4.html

I hope I have not inundated you with too many Scriptures.

Borrowing viewpoints

"What does Spiritual Connection mean?"

If every there was a time when there was no life and if ever there will be a time when there is no life then there won't be a Spiritual Connection.

As soon as there is life then it is possible to connect the life form, the being, the perceptive being, to the power of creation or God; furthermore, it seems to me, there is also a possibility that one life form can divide into two life forms or many life forms and since division means separation there may be, there is a possibility, that those disconnected, and separate life forms can remain connected in some way even if the distance between life forms is vast and even if there are many barriers other than distance between those life forms and the connection could be the same connection as the one between God and one life form and between each life form and the other life form.

If there is no connection at all then one life form cannot know God, by definition there is no connection, and if one life form is connected to God, a Jesus perhaps, then absent any way for Jesus, or God, to connect to any other life form, again by definition, one cannot know the other in any way, there is no connection.

God, or the life force, or the power of creation, or whatever words manage to communicate the actual power of creation to anyone, any life form, is self defining, it seems to me, as life is created, and so that connection is an obvious, measurable, Spiritual Connection, again having only words to connect one perception to another.

God, by definition, connects to life forms as they are created, but that may be a one way connection, whereby the life form cannot see God, perceive God, or know God, other than by ideas, words, vision, hearing, knowing, realizing, contemplating, understanding, and by life itself.

Since I am, as far as that goes, I know God.

Maybe God is working on reproducing another God so God can have company, and ants didn't quite fill the order?

My Spiritual Connection is full of static.

"Do not trust my words."

I trust that you err too. Concern can be focused on solutions to problems.

"I am concerned that you are an anti American Socialist Communist."

Wow! That sounds really bad, but not as bad as "Conspiracy Theorist" or "Terrorist".

I'm going to take a long look in the mirror to see what an anti American Socialist Communist looks like, or no, I think you have me confused with a false version of me, a version of me that does not exist other than the perception you have constructed in your mind.

It may be worth the effort to bridge the gap between what I actually am and your viewpoint of me, but not if the goal is unwelcome.

"You want me to read the Communist Manifesto, Equitable Love, Warren who was nearly communist"

I do not want anyone to read the Communist Manifesto and my guess is that you think this false perception of me is based upon my linking the Communist Manifesto to you, yet the effort, on my part, was to show that the writers of that text openly declared that they were not Socialists of a specific type which was a clue on the trail back to the original meaning of the word socialism. A paper trail made of bread crumbs doesn't last, but a paper trail authored by the authorities tend to last awhile so that people can find their way back to a bad turn in the road, and then place a sign on the fork in the road, perhaps the sign might read: "Run fast this way" straight off a cliff around a blind turn.

Anti-American is a new one on me. I have not been tagged with that number up until this moment. Perhaps other people thought the same thing and therefore other people share your verdict of guilt in this regard, having me convicted without trial, presumed guilty and all that, but at least it wasn't a publik hanging in their case in my past, as far as I know, or remember.

I ran for congress. I delivered petitions. I've written petitions. I was and am ready to join any militia movement that will march armed on Washington to throw the Legal Criminals out, so long as it isn't pissing in the wind, so long as the force of Liberty is large enough to constitute an effective deterrence without resort to aggressive or defensive violence, unless the Legal Criminals insist upon being overpowered in the way they insist upon being overpowered, at their peril, as their choice, if they do fail to see the writing on the wall, and if they do cast the first stone.

So I'm anti American?

OK

What is the opposite of anti American, just so that I am able to see clearly.

"You want me to read the Communist Manifesto, Equitable Love, Warren who was nearly communist"

Had you read the text in the Communist Manifesto, as linked, a few paragraphs on one of the revisions, 1888 I think, you would know that a socialist is a socialist and a communist is a communist and the two don't mix, according to the Authorities of Communism.

So that leaves, I suppose, the claim that I am a socialist and in that I can partially confess, so long as the thing you think is socialism is the same as the thing I think is socialism.

Socialism has one very clear example but I'll offer two clear examples of socialism as I think socialism exists in human experience up to today.

A. The Family
B. The Military

Both of those things exist, not just the words, actual connections between people exist in such a way as to constitute The Family and The Military and the ways that those people connect in those things called The Family and The Military are ways that could be called individual sacrifice for the greater good. The pay sucks, or so I hear.

Words fail to connect one person who refuses to hear what another person may have to say, or so has been my experience so far.

"You want me to read the Communist Manifesto, Equitable Love, Warren who was nearly communist"

I don't want you to read anything you do not want to read, and now I'm rethinking any more effort on my part to "make a deal" with you concerning this very thing. Please don't read anything that may cause you unwelcome concern, not on my account, please.

As far as I know, based upon what the official communists have written in their official "manifesto" is that they are not socialists.

As far as I know I am a member of a family, which again as far as I know, that makes me a socialist by that definition, as I sacrifice for the greater good in that way, and as we family members pool (collect) our power into one power that is by that method a power that is greater than the power of the individual parts added together.

Your version of what is or is not socialism aside, by the definition offered, now reluctantly, with growing concern, I can say that I may be a socialist, but that also assumes that English can be an accurate means of conveying accurate meaning from one person to another.

"you believe there is a difference between the working class and ruling class"

To be clear on this point, again, in my defense now, I will type and then publish defensive words.

I do not invent these "classes" myself, my reports of the existence of these "classes" are from other people making these distinctions of "classes" as is most often the case, in my view, a person who plans on exploiting another person is apt to classify the targeted victims within "classes" that make it sound much better that merely calling the targeted victims what they are, in fact, which is targeted victims.

A person who intends to exploit a connection of otherwise mutual or equitable commerce, rendering it no longer equitable, may want to call the other part of the connection, the target, by such a word as "worker", or "employee", or "consumer", or "audience", and that is merely the way it is, and it seems to me that it is a lot of hot air.

A person selling their labor to another person is also buying something from the buyer of labor and the exchange can be equitable or it can be exploited by one or the other party to the deal.

When I sold my labor for 25 years, or so, it remained as equitable as was in my power to do so, as I hired people to work at helping us combine our powers into productive activity, they had their special talents, I have mine, as far as I was concerned they worked too, so they were workers too, and I employed them as much as they employed me, so I was their employer, and when they resorted to lies I fired them, as far as I was concerned they quit the equitable deal.

"you believe there is a difference between the working class and ruling class"

I had also offered observations concerning personality types such as extroverts and introverts, these things can be measured and known better.

"you believe there is a difference between the working class and ruling class"

I have also offered observations of my own and observations of other people who have studied these things observed, Erich Fromm in particular, whereby sociopaths and psychopaths are identifiable human mutations, people born without specific parts of their brains where brain activity is associated with such things as empathy or conscience and those mutated human beings tend to find their way to the top of social structures that can resemble a Pyramid of classes, or layers, whereby the most devious, the most violent, are on top, and the least devious and the least violent are crushed and held down on the bottom.

I can only offer information, what is done with the information is out of my power, or my concern, unless I am being misrepresented publicly, and then it does concern me enough to inspire me to defend against such false things.

"you say that China and Russia are not aggressors"

If it is just me saying something then that is one thing, but it isn't just me saying that China and Russia are not aggressors for many centuries. The facts speak for themselves and all things being relative, there is one "Legal Fiction" that has been very busy in the past two centuries along the lines of aggressive wars for profit.

It is possible for someone, anyone at all, to be for a country, where the people are generally honest, and productive, and generous, and be against or "anti" Legal Crime, since so many criminals are more that willing to pick up that weapon of mass aggressive destruction.

I suppose it is much easier to lump everyone who ever says anything uncomfortable into the same group of things worthy of public damnation. The name thrown onto the guilty can be anything so long as the desired outcome, public damnation, is earned.

Anti-American?

Me?

"Just how did communism spread from the Soviet Union to Cuba from China to North Korea, North Vietnam, Cambodia; and if I have missed any communist countries you will have to remember my ignorance."

Your ignorance may be slightly more or less than mine on any subject. My understanding of each example is obviously not the same as yours, and if either one of us is to earn our way out of ignorance we might find use in competitive comparisons of specific viewpoints on any one of those examples.

Such as:

Vietnam was, as far as my understanding goes, a French colony, whereby French soldiers seized control of the land occupied by native people, exploiting the native people and the land, making "workers", and when the natives heard about how "workers" (which they weren't "workers" before the French made them into "workers") can get out from under the thumb of "colonization", some of them listened to that distant song and the tune was "communism".

You think I am a "communists" apparently meaning something to you.

When I look at Hugo Chavez or Fidel Castro I see a former "worker" who listened to a distant song where the tune was offering a way out from under the thumb of "colonization", and they listened to that song.

I heard the song, and there is a false version and a true version of the song called "communism".

Alexandr I. Solzhenitsyn sang the song too.

Which is true?

Ask someone who knows. I live in America. I live in a family in America. I've heard from some of the authorities on "communism".

You are now an authority on communism, and you put me in that "class", thanks.

I appreciate it.

There are ways out from under the thumb of Legal Crime by any name that Legal Crime may hide under, such as "colonization", or "benevolent dictatorship" or "fascism" or "communism" or "Nation State", or "Legal Money Monopoly".

One way out from under Legal Crime is to become that which you supposedly abhor, merely change the name on the door.

Cambodia is an interesting story, look up Pol Pot, where did that Strong Man get his financing, and could it be possible that some of the few survivors may look toward any help from anywhere even from China?

As for Korea, my Dad went to Korea, do you want to go there too?

Lets go there too.

Please.

Lets not go half way, how about knowing better rather than knowing worse? No deals, just a challenge, would it be better to know better about Korea, or is knowing worse good enough?

My Dad said very little about Korea, and my dad's friend said very little about Korea, but they said a few things about Korea. I can repeat what I heard from them, they went there, they were hired to work there, and they worked in Korea.

Workers, very busy workers.

Thanks Dad, thanks Uncle, nice work, you set a very good example for me not to follow in that specific case.

"The spread of Communism was not peaceful."

Confusing the Legal Crime States known as Russia and China as being aggressors of aggressive wars for profit with the "spread of communism" is not what I did, that is what you are doing.

Russia went into Afghanistan. That is a story to be told. That is an example of Russian Aggression in the past 200 years. There are, of course, exceptions. China took over Taiwan?

If the bad guys call themselves "The Inquisition" you get it, but if the bad guys call what they are doing "Fighting Communism" you don't get it?

If the heretics are being tortured for confessions you get it, but if the "workers" are screaming bloody murder, looking for a way out, you don't get it?

"And now the US (I don’t know what else to call it) is exporting “Democracy” and that is not peaceful."

Just because you woke up in your time, with all your comforts, and all your demons, and challenges, and struggles, does not mean that other people have not be at it before you arrived on the scene.

What do you call "now"? Was "now" when Sherman and Grant were solving the "Indian Problem" with the all to familiar "Final Solution"? That was here in good ole' U.S.A. Inc. (LLC)

Talk about busy workers.

So "now" "we" (Americans?) are "spreading democracy" and then we were all shinny from sea to sea, working to get there by hook or by crook?

ONE NATION UNDER (FALSE) GOD

Which God invented the Final Solution, and then hired the workers to get to work on that project? I'm not that kind of American, but that doesn't make me anti-American, that makes me anti-Limited Liability Corporate Person-hood a.k.a. falsehood in the hood.

When is then? When were "we" (Americans?) the good guys?

The Constitution ended the working Democratic Federated Republic and The Constitution created LEGALIZED SLAVERY.

If you don't get it, that doesn't mean that "IT" does not exist.

"But I don’t think we have always been an aggressor nation."

So, I suppose, you are going to tell me that my Dad and my Uncle went to Korea to "help" the (south) Korean people, George Washington went into Pennsylvania to help The People see the light?

When were "we" not an aggressor "nation" as in Nation State (monopoly law power)?

Washington conscripted a National Army to crush what was legal under The Articles of Confederation in which year?

When were we not an imperialistic Nation State?

You tell me.

Please, please, please.

I am concerned about my failure to know the important facts.

"It seems we got pulled into WW I & II unless that history has been rewritten as well."

History is what had been now. Those who write history can do so accurately or inaccurately and there are versions that are false on purpose. The fact that much of Hitler's finances came from Wall Street and the fact that much of Stalin's finances came from Wall Street, and the fact that much of Roosevelt's finances came from Wall Street are facts, well documented, well researched, and a story of how power flows to where some people want power to flow and the reasons for wanting power to flow to those places are also written in some records and there are other people who merely speculate as to the actual reasons for power to be flowing from one central legal bank monopoly to all sides in a future World War.

Put your money where your mouth is, a saying that comes to my mind.

Who has control of your money?

There is evidence supporting the speculation that the same group of people, central bankers, have control of your money and they buy World Wars so as to keep that control of your money.

It may be a good time to take back our money. I'm guessing.

I may be a socialist if a family is an example of socialism.

I can't be a communist if I am a socialist if the official communist manifesto means anything.

I can be anti American if by American you mean "blind belief in the absolute authority of criminals with badges" otherwise you have me confused with your active imagination.

"But we didn’t start those wars did we?"

It takes two to tango (or 3).

"You tell me the Beloved George Washington was a Legal Criminal instead of the Father of our Country."

Beloved by whom? If there are any good examples of stupefied people, people so brainwashed as to salivate on the ringing of a bell, then my advice is to get up, go to a mirror, and think of how wonderful we are here in good ole' U.S.A.!

Whooooohooooooo! Where is my throat cutting knife!

The actual facts are not comfortable if you dare to look, which you do, which is appreciated, appreciated as much as your honesty, and appreciated as much as your finely tuned Spiritual Connection, despite convicting me without trial, and despite your execution of the public damnation sentence upon me.

The stone was thrown, nice shot, right in target.

I could be punished worse for the crime of being honest and diligent in seeking to know better.

"I have to watch the USS Liberty Link you gave me and I cannot understand."

That was linked for a reason, and the reason was to point out how I am not the only one who understands that the punishments from Legal Criminals can get worse than imaginable. I'm not alone in knowing better about such things - apparently - which was the point of that link.

The point is, yes, court marshal is possible, public damnation is possible, yes, prison time is possible, including almost certain rape in prison if the stories I've heard are accurate, yes, those punishments are possible, sure, but, and you may want to know better, but...there are worst things done by them to the targets they target.

FYI

The sign I am posting is not the sign that says run fast this way down this blind curve over this cliff.

I just happen to be in a hard earned position to know what is happening more so than about 99% of the brainwashed masses, and so I think it is my duty to do my part in blowing the whistle to anyone who may care to hear the tune.

I am not the lone gunman.

I am not a communist if the official communist manifesto is anything to go by, having any authority whatsoever.

I may be a socialist if by socialist you mean family member, but if you have some other strange meaning of the word then I may not be a socialist by that definition.

I am not anti American if by American you man honest productive people who happen to live within the boundaries of say New Jersey and California.

Give me Liberty of get the hell out of my way.

I'm not seeing the point of adding to the lies, to do what, make them bigger?

"Which makes me also feel like I should keep my guard up because what if you are a communist socialist anti american over there in that land of the “fruits and nuts” and communist card carrying hollywood crowd?"

Trust is a fine thing, very powerful. Liars are also powerful. It won't do me any good to tell you that I'm not going all in, in support of, or getting in behind the legalized torture and the legalized mass murder club, because you know I could be lying. I could be lending the really bad people moral and material support so that they, or me, could contribute to your eventual demise in bad ways.

Blame me.

I think I know this tune.

"You advocate individuality and anarchism I guess?"

My point to you is what I advocate over and over again and I can repeat it again.

We as individuals are the source of power that can figure out how NOT TO provide the means by which we all are suffering, we can stop sending moral support to torturing mass murderers and we can stop sending material support to torturing mass murderers and in that way there will be less torture and less mass murder made legal.

Thomas Paine said the same thing, I'm just a messenger boy, like a parrot, or like a broken record, here is the actual quote:

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer."

There is much hope in that knowledge, if you can see it, and if you can't I may be able to help. I may not be of any help in that regard.

"Is that how those other revolutions started?"

The book titled 46 Pages is a history book about how Common Sense, which was a book written in 1776, gained currency.

Common Sense gained a lot of currency real fast like a modern day Popular Song will gain currency real fast, selling millions of records really fast.

That is how people revolutionize their thinking, and if the Legal Criminals don't like it then they may assemble a conscripted army to crush that revolution, just like George Washington did in 1794, so those "infected" with the "spirit of liberty" can expect to have other people grow jealous or worse.

How much worse?

So the time line is important.

1. Legalized Enslavement
2. Revolution of the mind
3. Aggressive War for Profit to enforce Legalized Slaves into obedience despite objection
4. Objective options invented by and produced by and maintained by the former victims within their power to do so in time

If peaceful resistance is an option then who is not on that side, raise your hand?

If peaceful resistance is not an option, who made it not an option?

My guess is that the people who make peaceful resistance not an option are not going to bother raising their hands, they have work to do, and that work falls under the label Legal Crime if English can somehow convey accurate meaning from one person to the next.

If you blame the innocent victims for resisting violently when no other option was afforded to them then is that an original thought you have, blaming the victims for the crime of defending themselves, or is that a thought that somehow managed to wander into your trusting soul?

Give me Liberty or I'm going to kill your sorry ass.

I can say "brave" things, because I mean it, if it is a choice between me, and my family being alive, or the aggressor with or without the badge alive, then too bad for the aggressor with or without the badge. If it is no longer my choice, because I let that power wander off, then too bad for me, and too bad for my family.

Punishment or worse, too bad for me.

Too bad for my "socialist" family where we work collectively for the greater good and all that dogma.

I can be a capitalist too, any time I use that pricing method, and all that dogma too.

I can be a Legal Criminal too, but I'm working on limiting the flow of moral and material support that way, thanks but no thanks, I've seen what happens down that road, I've even talked to some of the survivors.

"Can you please tell me in plain English exactly what political philosophy you advocate without making me read a long document written over 100 years ago."

Power produced into oversupply reduces the price of power while purchasing power increases because power reduces the cost of production.

The politics part is contained within "purchasing power" which is money, which is summed up here:

Responsibility is individual, or there is no responsibility.

Stop enforcing Legal Tender Laws and that means that anyone can produce their own money at their own cost.

Equitable Commerce is when everyone produces their own money at their own cost - or profit.

Whose going to argue the point?

If someone argues the point, you may have found a dupe or a Legal Criminal.

Don't feed the Legal Criminals.

How is that, condensed down into sound bites?

"God is The Judge."

I agree <------- counterfeit judgement by me

"Why keep trying to work and make a living when they take it all away. What incentive is left? It doesn’t make any sense. I AM sorry."

We have plenty of options as human beings, but as business people the result is the destruction of our business, as if that was the actual goal of taxation, and with downsizing, with cuts of expenses, and with adaptations to the new set of rules, and with a whole lot of expense, cost, wasted on filing taxes, meeting those demands, rather than actually selling Real Estate, the rate of debt accumulation is being arrested and more of the same effort can balance it out and get back on track.

The point was to point out real time examples of how things actually work in The Business Psycho. How much does it cost to send moral and material support to people who then use that power to take more, or to cause a BOOM followed by a BUST followed by a BOOM followed by a BUST whereby, as if by magic, much of our power flows from us to them, as if it wasn't an accident, as if it wasn't merely a mistake.

I'm not the dupe here, the communist, socialist, anti American, stupefied dupe ready to torture and mass murder for a dollar or just for fun, or hire the workers to do all that for me.

I'm looking around in my castle and finding no door to the cellar where I keep my skeletons or my victims on their way to becoming skeletons, but you can't know that, so know this then, please: trust is very powerful among honest people.

3% and sometimes less for the Agent licensed to represent the seller in California and 3% to the Agent licensed to represent the buyer, as far as my understanding goes so far. I have a license now.

My wife earns every penny, and now my son, with the help of my wife, is earning every penny. If there was no Legal Crime then things would be different, for sure, but people would still be moving from house to house and people would still be distrusting each other and therefore people specializing in making sure that no one pays what they do not agree to pay will still be demanded and that, in my opinion, is what a Real Estate Agent does to earn their way.

People buying and selling homes have a lot riding on the deal.

"Are you saying Hitler was not bad? Or was he propped up for a purpose? It seems like China already had their Hitler…Mao?"

Now I'm a Hitler lover? I am a communist and a Hitler lover!

Hitler passed on a lot of costs, so I think it is safe to say that he was not very equitable, which is a measure of good, and passing on costs is a measure of bad. Enslavement is bad. Torture is enslavement, unless there are lines of volunteers paying all they have to get into the torture chamber for their preferred avenue in pursuit of happiness. Please torture me, please, I'll do anything, pay any cost, just torture me, please, please, please.

Seriously: God is the Judge. I'm just observing.

Hitler was definitely propped up on purpose, but some evidence suggests that his financiers were double crossed, he may have quit once he became independently wealthy. The employers didn't like it.

Mao, like a lot of information on China, has not been studied much by me, but I did read about Chiang Kai-shek being less useful for those most powerful people who can buy anything, so I think the flow of power went to Mao instead of the loser. Those reports I read were not detailed like the reports done by Anthony Sutton on Hitler, Stalin, and Roosevelt.

Money doesn't buy love?

Sometimes the employees wander after the honeymoon is over?

Who financed Saddam Hussein?

Who financed Osama Bin Obama?

Who finances al-Qaeda?

"I didn’t burn my SS card though of course there is always tomorrow."

I'm not into symbolism much, so when there is a call to get guns, and ropes for hanging, I'll march to Washington, all due process, no violence, guns are defensive weapons when used by non criminals, so I have nothing to hide, and everything to gain, in Liberty.

It would be much better, to me, to merely ignore those false authorities and start taking our Liberties seriously, specifically our Liberty to use whatever money we prefer to use, but that type of idea has to gain currency in more ways than one.

"Is that the desired outcome?"

The nature of crime, with or without the badge, is to divide and conquer. The victims have to be made less powerful by division of their equatable trusting productive powers with road blocks, censorship, destroyed bridges, destroyed hospitals, so that no one trusts anyone else, and each are at each others throats, and the most deceptive and the most violent are thereby capable of doing what they do best because the victims are rendered powerless.

I go back to the case of the missing truck loads of 100 dollar bills, hundreds of tons of money, that were "lost" in Iraq. Sure, that was an accident, and I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.

"Seems I remember a comment earlier back in the vast expanse made by you about not investing in an underground shelter. Are those just to hide in during a war or for nuclear war? Those things are being set up with lots of supplies you know."

Much of that may be what I call "busy work" which is much like digging a hole and then digging another hole to use the dirt out of the second hole to fill in the first hole.

Going back to the POWER law it can become clear that the elimination or avoidance of Legal Crime altogether would result in all that wasted power being used productively and therefore you have two obvious competitive measures of POWER.

1.
What is done now where so many people are doing so much work that results in either waste or destruction and yet the net result is a growing supply of surplus wealth (power) despite all the waste and destruction for some strange reason we are still productive.

2.
How much faster would the growing supply of surplus wealth grow and what forms would that surplus wealth (production) take if #1 is completely avoided?

Once you see that, know how that works, measure it, it becomes very clear that the most powerful people cannot allow that #2 option to happen anywhere for any length of time reaching any competitive level of power or it will be Game Over for those most powerful people, since the former victims will be too powerful to be overpowered.

Knowing that is knowing that there must be a whole lot of power wasted and a whole lot of power consumed in destruction because failing to waste or destroy all that power would result in Liberty, or in other words: without Legal Crime there would be a steady increase in the quality of life while there was a steady reduction in the cost of life because human beings are very productive living beings capable of so much more than we have so far produced because too many of us are stupefied into the false belief in the need to provide material and moral support to sociopaths and psychopaths who just so happen to invent, produce, and maintain that FALSEHOOD and that VIOLENCE.

"How do you know that the Russians/Chinese are not being controlled by the World Bank as well and aren’t pulling certain strings to lure the US into WWIII so as to hide the real aggressors?"

The opposite is true. I know that The World Bank PEOPLE, the actual people in control of The World Bank, can buy anything, or anyone, who can be bought, and so they will maneuver people who can be bought, and with those purchases they can maneuver people who can't be bought, and many times the people they do buy, like Hitler, turn on them, but that is the nature of things in Legal Crime.

The setup now is to get all these flag wavers over here to be ready for invading Iran. If all the flag wavers over here are ready to invade Iran, and that goes off on schedule then the Russians and Chinese will be forced to move the line in the sand further back or respond with a military action against all our home grown flag wavers.

This happened the same way in World War II. Hitler went into Austria, then Poland, and Russia went into the other half of Poland, drawing the line. The Allies said no more, you cross the line, we go to war, and the line was crossed, and then there was a time called The Phoney War, no grand marches to the sea, for awhile.

Then Hitler swallowed up France. Later Hitler almost took over Russia, it was very close, but only in a military sense, there was no way to take over Russian people, no way. Russians have to do that to themselves, just like us.

Just like the Chinese, there is no way any foreigners are going to take over the Chinese, it has to be from within, the people have to be made to believe in their own home grown Legal Criminals.

So "we" the flag wavers take over Iran, same lies, same routine, and the line is moved closer to China and Russia, exactly what The World Bank people want, to force those who can't be bought into buying World War III, and meanwhile who is providing material support to China and Russia through the back doors, to get Chinese and Russian military power up to speed, so as to make sure that U.S.A. goes down in a final Empire Ending Last Stand like poor old Custer defending his helpless self against those bad, bad, Indians.

But it can't be cheap for Russia or China otherwise Russia and China will be harder to buy and corrupt from within, the concept here is to draw things out as long as possible, perpetually if possible, and to make everyone pay, and pay a lot, and then everyone is very weak, and everyone is willing to do just about anything to end the suffering, and that is when all that power of money pays off, buying up everything that is at fire sale prices, including politically powerful people. How much will to cost for them to buy your soul?

Cheap?

You won't sell now, but what if they are taking your children, what if they took your children, will you sell your soul then?

You may not sell cheap, but other people are looking for that type of work, and they charge a lot, the going rate, but the buyers have as many zeros as they need. They can afford to lose hundreds of tons of 100 dollar bills stacked in bricks on wooden pallets. They can make trillions disappear.

You can't.

You go to jail for not finding the three zeros they say you owe them.

They rape you if you don't obey.

Don't take my word for it, how about a fellow Friend of Liberty speaking:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylKWivA3B4M

"We have had a single stable form of Government for over 200 years."

You continue to fail to see the most obvious lie because it is hidden in plain sight?

I'm going to stop here, I have my guitar to play, I want to do everything and leave nothing undone, but there are limits, and it may be a better thing to cut this short and focus attention on that specific viewpoint where your words appear to me as you being swallowed up in lies.

May the more accurate perception be welcomed.

Joe

Collective Power & Individual Responsibility

“Since I am, as far as that goes, I know God.”

God is I am; you (and I) are not.

“Maybe God is working on reproducing another God so God can have company, and ants didn't quite fill the order?”

God doesn’t have to “work” on anything. When He places an order it is exactly as placed and as intended. God made man in his own image and breathed His breath (an eternal soul) into man for life and walked in the cool of the evening with man in the garden. God already made man for company and the fellowship is sweet. I do not know how far to go with this subject as your last statement was that you wanted to play your guitar (which was probably far more enjoyable so I am glad you did) so I do not know if you finished reading the rest of my comments regarding marriage and slavery which also discussed God and man.

“My Spiritual Connection is full of static.”

I don’t know what that above quote means. What do you mean by static?

What is a life form?
_______________________________
Trust & Honesty:
I Samual 16:7…for the LORD seeth not as man seeth ; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart

I am not like God.

I don’t know you or your thoughts. My statement was honest. Please note the word “concerned.” I did not call you those words or say that you were those things. I said I was concerned that those words may apply to you based upon our discourse. I was being honest about my fears. Today I am so ashamed of using those words that I don’t even want to repeat them. I was only being honest about my fears and they are perhaps construed as I am fallible and it is difficult to perceive based upon communication. You want me to get certain things out of the links and readings you give me and it seems I come up with understandings that you do not intend. There is a perception problem. I am willing to accept the blame. Your perception is based upon your intelligence and knowledge base; my perception is based upon mine.

Can you trust me now when I am honest? My ability to perceive is faulty.

“It may be worth the effort to bridge the gap between what I actually am and your viewpoint of me, but not if the goal is unwelcome.”

The goal is welcome though difficult due to human personality, perception and deficiency with the art of communication and all that must be left unsaid constrained by time and space. I brought those concerns up because I want to know better.

“I do not want anyone to read the Communist Manifesto and my guess is that you think this false perception of me is based upon my linking the Communist Manifesto to you, yet the effort, on my part, was to show that the writers of that text openly declared that they were not Socialists of a specific type which was a clue on the trail back to the original meaning of the word socialism. A paper trail made of bread crumbs doesn't last, but a paper trail authored by the authorities tend to last awhile so that people can find their way back to a bad turn in the road, and then place a sign on the fork in the road, perhaps the sign might read: "Run fast this way" straight off a cliff around a blind turn.”

See the communication deficiency: I thought you wanted me to read the Communist Manifesto because you thought it a good and valid theory written by Marx which has not yet been humanly achieved and that I should not look with concern at the planks of communism already established in the USA with the latest being the achievement of National Healthcare, or socialized medicine. I thought you thought… and those thoughts were not voiced until now. I seem to remember having a problem with spybotts…and my thoughts. Maybe I should also say I am of a suspicious sort. I don’t think I have said that yet. Does being suspicious go hand in hand with Scientific Reasoning?

“Anti-American is a new one on me. I have not been tagged with that number up until thimoment. Perhaps other people thought the same thing and therefore other people share your verdict of guilt in this regard, having me convicted without trial, presumed guilty and all that, but at least it wasn't a publik hanging in their case in my past, as far as I know, or remember.”

I don’t know what other people think or do. As far as a publik hanging…I did not go behind your back to speak about you. I spoke directly to you about my own personal fear based upon our public discourse. I did not intend a hanging of any sort, but an open discourse so that I might understand. Should I have kept my thoughts private? Am I not trustworthy now because I have been open and honest? Would you not rather know so that if there are misconstrued false assumptions they might be corrected? You say you get censored. What if others made those same assumptions but did not take the time to be honest? Wouldn’t you like to openly refute those thoughts as to clear up any misconceptions that might be construed?

“What is the opposite of anti American, just so that I am able to see clearly.”

I suppose in my washed brain it is someone who embraces the constitution and the Father of our Country “Georgie Boy” the way I have been taught since childhood. You do not speak positively of either of those entities. You speak of Chinese slave labor made American flags waving on limp wrists. I have never heard anyone speak like you do. You just say Marxism is what Marxism is or something like that and do not speak of it negatively. You speak positively of China and Russia, arch enemies since my childhood, and negatively of the USA. I suppose it might be someone who is supportive of the American form of cannibalism; not a socialist or a communist.

In the link you gave me on Edmonds, Jones dissed people who do not like George Washington and the Constitution. Marxism was disparaged. Do you not hear those things in those links? Those are the things I hear and I think I hear you saying the opposite about your viewpoint.

If I have been taught Red White and Blue since childhood and you are saying Yellow and Black what would you expect me to construe? Try for a moment to look at my shoes and see how they fit. My homework was Red White and Blue and included a pledge to that Standard.

What is the definition of American? Someone who lives on the American Continents?

“Had you read the text in the Communist Manifesto, as linked, a few paragraphs on one of the revisions, 1888 I think, you would know that a socialist is a socialist and a communist is a communist and the two don't mix, according to the Authorities of Communism.”

What I remember reading was that the term Socialism was not in vogue due to public perception so they went with the term Communism or something like that.

Earlier I gave you a quote by Marx that said something to the effect of socialism leading the way to communism. Can you answer that theory for me. Because if I think Marx said socialism is the way to communism and I construe that you approve of socialism although I do not know the correct definition because I cannot use the dictionary so I don’t know except perhaps it is the power of the individual collected as a greater power for the good of the whole at the expense or sacrifice of the individual like as in the military or in the family

Is the sacrifice optional or voluntary? It doesn’t seem so to me when I must sacrifice my power for the collective good of the whole as in social security or nationalized healthcare. It seems to me that when an individual sacrifices for the whole the individual no longer has a say in what is good for the whole. Who is going to collect all my sacrifice and determine what is good for everyone else. How about if I choose what I sacrifice and use that chosen sacrifice as deemed best by my sovereign self and determine what good I want to see done with that sacrifice and for which certain sovereign individuals it is to be done and not with or for the nebulous whole even if that said sacrifice is less powerful if not collected?

Why did the USSR use Socialist in its title if it is Communism is not Socialist?
____________________________
I fear that with the vast amount of information covered so rapidly that I do not come to a valid scientific conclusion before moving to another topic or multiple topics at that same time. I am not an equal in ability to you. It took nearly a week for me to get to an understanding of why the SSN was not key. I still have a lot of questions about Korea and Who is Judge, and your thoughts on my thoughts as replied on marriage and your requested information on Bible slavery, but I am not writing another word about another subject until my perception is clarified if you think it worth the time. Perhaps my inability to completely come to correct conclusions causes a collective power of assumptions that are malformed.

Responsibility must be individual or it is no responsibility at all.

The bigger the socialized unit the less the individual responsibility and thus the greater collected power is wasted before it meets its intended goal leaving a lessor collected power than if that power was used responsibly and individually.

Miscommunication can be a goal

"God is I am; you (and I) are not."

When miscommunication appears to become a goal, from my viewpoint, the words I type begin to have nothing to do with the responses to the words I type, so here I see an opportunity to ask why your quoted words above were offered by you as a response to the words of mine you quoted above your words as if your words have anything to do with my words.

I wrote:
“Since I am, as far as that goes, I know God.”

You responded (apparently responding to my words):
"God is I am; you (and I) are not."

How is it that I can be on the subject of how God can be known by the existence of life and then the subject changes to your words that appear to suggest that you are in a position of authority to school me on the notion that "I" think that "I" am God?

You find cause to tell me that I am not God?

Is that something you do with other people whenever you think that other people think that they are God?

I don't know what inspired you to school me on the fact that I am not God, was it something you read?

Since I do not think that I am God, since I have never said that I think that I am God, where would you ever get such a notion as to think that you may need to school me on that fact?

Miscommunication is not my goal, and if it were my goal then I could write words that suggest that I think I am God, but I did no such thing, so where is this miscommunication originating?

Is it accident?

"I do not know if you finished reading the rest of my comments regarding marriage and slavery which also discussed God and man."

I've read up to date, as far as I can tell, all your responses. The end of the capacity to share viewpoints appears to be approaching. If the words I write are no longer welcome to the point that my words are set aside and you place words in my mouth, or meanings between the lines that are not intended, then to me you are done with me, so what would be the point of continuing to miss-communicate on purpose?

"I don’t know what that above quote means. What do you mean by static?"

Again, a question, and I can write an honest answer, but you may read more confessions of me thinking I am god or who knows what into the actual words I write, so what would be the point?

"You want me to get certain things out of the links and readings you give me and it seems I come up with understandings that you do not intend."

Here, to me, we are back to where I stopped responding earlier. There is a basic lie that consumes you, from my viewpoint, and I can be wrong, but I can try to explain - desperately.

You fear and therefore you respond to those fears and two responses to your fears are cataloged in this thread of words woven on this forum. You now school me on me being God, I am not God, you tell me, as if you fear that someone, somewhere, does think that they are God.

So from my view your fears are misplaced and your fears are targeting me, and my cost of discussing these things with you is now my public damnation whereby I am now knowable as a nut case who thinks that he is God, and saved from that malignancy only by your good grace.

Thanks.

And you fear communists, but you are somewhat behind the times, you will fear "terrorists", and so now you fear me the communist, and you let me know about it too, publicly, again public damnation upon me, my cross to bear for offering a competitive viewpoint, and now you have ammunition to claim that I think I am Jesus, which is false, I don't, I merely have a "way with words" that is unique, as unique as your "way with words", and soon, I suppose, I will type symbols in English, and you will arrive at the conclusion that I am a terrorist, so I'll get that too.

The point I wish to make, before going much further, is that there is a method to this madness, since each individual is at each other individual's throat for some reason.

A case of mistaken identity or two.

Instead of focusing attention at someone like Ben Bernanke, if the idea is to exert precious defensive power efficiently, "we the people" are inspired to kill rag heads, and torture them before throwing them on the pile.

Is that a case of mistaken identity?

Identity thieves may have stolen our money, our constitution, our religion, our military, our language, and how well defended are our souls, given the accurate identification of the laundry list preceding?

"Your perception is based upon your intelligence and knowledge base; my perception is based upon mine."

You discredit experience, perhaps, the words indicate as much. I've been where you are, I still fight the power that appears to want me to move back to where I was, where you may be now, and the power struggle is never easy, not for God's creation, and I suggest that God's children don't have a free ride either.

Why does someone like me, or only me, keep repeating the advice of a need to be accurate in communication?

Experience shows, to me, that accurate communication is the exception, not the rule.

If I intend to point out that the victims are made to believe in very serious lies, and the actual most serious lie is intended to be exemplified, what are the chances, take a wild guess, that the intended recipient of the intended message will mistake the message as a lie told by a communist who thinks he is God and Jesus?

My view, from my experience, is that conversations between myself and anyone else, are brief, as my viewpoint is shared by almost no one, and demarcation lines between viewpoints are staked out early, and there is little left to say after that reaching of polarized opposites.

You are an exception in over 20 years of my experience, the outcome takes longer, perhaps.

I can stand the public damnation, it goes with the territory, as a matter of public record, but I persevere, not because I am generous, not because I enjoy public damnation, but because I see a need to test my own perspective competitively against any competitor who has the honesty to lay it out competitively, which you do, as far as I can tell so far.

So the question becomes, why am I seen as the bad guy?

If there are any helpful good guys out there, anywhere, what are they doing that I am not doing?

Where are these Friends of Liberty, living and letting live, practicing the Golden Rule, and using moral conscience as a guide, or Christianity as a guide, and should we mistake them for our enemies, so as to avoid them at all cost, or might it be better to be a little more precise in the art of accurate discernment?

If there was a tool, a hand held device, something the size of a cell phone, to be picked up by anyone, and then used to accurately identify anyone else who is planning on using deceit upon the innocent, planning on using threats of violence upon the innocent, and planning on using violence upon the innocent, and the device beeps a little bit if the criminal in view is a little bit criminal and the device beeps louder if the criminal is a Legal Criminal with millions of tortured and murdered souls on his hands, then such a device had better be OUTLAWED because all hell would then brake loose.

All things being relative you have much to fear from me, I won't sugar coat much, but the beeper pointed at me can't be beeping very loudly compared to the most destructive among us.

Hide from me, or at least hide from the words I type, if that is the warning you get from your internal beeper, sure, I get it, I've been there, and that is fine to me, and I can take the costs you dish out, because your image does not make my beeper beep at all. The beeper is silent when aimed at you where the intention is to find the bad guys so as to avoid them at all cost.

All costs assumed and paid for by the individual, and no costs passed onto the collateral or the word you used which was Biblical, but meaning the same thing, debt paid by an innocent bystander, or some other words defining the actual process.

I may remember the word soon.

"Can you trust me now when I am honest? My ability to perceive is faulty."

How can anyone have absolute trust? Is that reserved for all God's Children? I'm not one, my trust is in what is proven to me, over, and over, and over, again, and again, and again, as if I have a very thick skull, and no common sense. How I have managed to survive until today is, to me, evidence of an external power.

Example:

I was thinking yesterday about the concept of calculating insurance premiums based upon risks and I remembered one summer at work where I ran a D-9 Bulldozer made by Caterpillar in U.S.A. (moving to China), 12 hour shifts, no breaks, I didn't take any, I am my own boss, I do things my way, so there I am sleeping on the job, literally sleeping. I roll very fast downhill on a very smooth road I just made, then I drop the blade to pick up another 50 tons of dirt and rocks, and start up the hill again, to get to the top, dump in the dirt and rocks, before the hopper empties, and I go to sleep.

So there is an insurance premium or cost calculated and then paid by the beneficiary of the insurance policy for doing something as dangerous as operating Heavy Equipment.

What is the insurance premium or cost calculated and then paid by the beneficiary of the insurance policy for sleeping while the Heavy Equipment is pushing 50 tons up the hill, making a smooth road, and somehow waking back up before reaching the top of the hill, stopping, so as not to drive off the hill on down the cliff on the other side of the hill, somehow waking back up to avoid dumping the Heavy Equipment into the emptying hopper?

All summer, 12 hour days.

For what, to buy the torture and mass murder of babies in Waco Texas?

You fear me?

I understand, look what I have done, wasting the life given to me, and worse.

How much worse?

"I brought those concerns up because I want to know better."

Reserving claims of absolute knowledge is probably a good thing.

"Does being suspicious go hand in hand with Scientific Reasoning?"

And religious interpretation?

"Should I have kept my thoughts private?"

Get out all the ropes and tie all the nooses and hang away, please.

"Am I not trustworthy now because I have been open and honest?"

My trust in not absolute. I expect these things based upon my experience. My experience is such that you should have ended your part in this conversation a few thousand words ago, so much for my experience.

If I end a conversation, such as my leaving the group gathered by Howard Bloom, it is due to diametric opposites identified by me, as in that case Howard Bloom had a viewpoint about Muslim religion taking over the human species and therefore Christians had to fight a war to stop it, or some such ideas that defy accurate reporting in a few sentences here and now.

Typically, with few exceptions, the discussion is ended by someone other than me, you are one of the exceptions, so far, and Howard Bloom was the other one, as far as I can remember right now.

I've been at this for over 2 decades. Many times the forum "moderators" pull the plug on me.

I was pulled off of The Free State Forum too, I just remembered that one, from the list.

I trust in what is proven over time; I am merely human. God's creation in your terms - I suppose.

"I suppose in my washed brain it is someone who embraces the constitution and the Father of our Country “Georgie Boy” the way I have been taught since childhood."

Here is a point at which I happen to have earned my way into the .01% of human beings who know better. In fact The Constitution is anti-American if by American it is Liberated America, as in The Declaration of Independence.

If there is a Ron Paul saying we need a limited government then The Constitution is only good at limiting government if we can turn back time to The Articles of Confederation, then each State has their own Constitution, some better than others, and that is called competition, and then the people can vote with their feet, runaway slaves voting with their feet from a worse to a better state of affairs, and do so without having to leave the country.

Ron Paul is half right, but I think he knows it. Many people don't.

Many people equate The Declaration of Independence with The Constitution and The Bill of Rights.

That is as false equation.

The Declaration of Independence made it a legal duty to oppose a criminal government; which is Liberty, a statement of Liberty.

The Constitution made insurrection against the law, and George provided the precedent in 1794 at least, proof of and the defining of the meaning of despotism.

The Bill or Rights were the last ditch attempt by the so called "Anti" Federalists (anti-American?) to chain the future despots down with limitations.

Why be false about things that are easy to know?

"You just say Marxism is what Marxism is or something like that and do not speak of it negatively."

Pavlov is a scientist who figured out how to modify the behavior of dogs. Ring the bell while the dog is eating, over, and over, and over, and over, again, and again, and soon the Dog will Salivate when a Bell is rung.

Edward Bernays (nephew to Sigmund Freud) used the science of behavioral modification on people in very big ways; one way was to help sell cigarettes, limited liability, to women by equating The Civil Rights Movement (Women Suffrage etc.) with cigarettes smoked by women on movie films, and in advertizements in major media: freedom equals cigarettes.

Ring the Bell = salivate

Independent women = I gotta have a cigarette

Say the name Marx = torture and murder the terrorists

Foam at the mouth.

Why play when the costs will be paid exclusively by you?

I don't see the point. Marx was corrupted from a point at which his message was reasonable to a point at which other people tended to speak for him, and do things in his name, and yet many people on this planet, not US, but many people on this planet see Marxism as a way out from under the thumb of such things as all the things that hide behind names like Colonialism.

I can understand that, and I can do so without becoming a "marxist" according to whichever old or new meaning of that term carries the day today.

"You speak positively of China and Russia, arch enemies since my childhood, and negatively of the USA."

Quote my actual words and I can mend my error filled ways.

I speak positively of honest, humorous, hard working, people in Russia, China, and America (U.S.A. Inc. LLC if you prefer).

I speak negatively of criminals with or without badges as they define the meaning of crimes that are lawful for them to do and unlawful for anyone else to do, according to their own, exclusive, and very mobile set of definitions.

The Legal Criminals taking control over any number of people can only get away with what the people allow in that place, call it a country if you wish.

Take the Dog, or the human victim, and show them Liberty, show them honest productive people, and then ring a bell, or wave a flag, do that how many times before the Dog, or the human victim, will falsely equate the good, or the food, with the bell, or the flag?

Now wave the flag at every involuntary tax subsidized school, and at every involuntary tax subsidized "government" building, and you get exactly what Patrick Henry and the other anti American "founders" warned against.

Foaming at the mouth on cue.

I prefer not to do so.

"I suppose it might be someone who is supportive of the American form of cannibalism; not a socialist or a communist."

If you have not yet read 1984 by George Orwell then you may find much value in that investment of your precious limited power.

"In the link you gave me on Edmonds, Jones dissed people who do not like George Washington and the Constitution. Marxism was disparaged. Do you not hear those things in those links? Those are the things I hear and I think I hear you saying the opposite about your viewpoint."

People can only go as far into discovery of facts as they will, not according to my sense of right and wrong, but the facts speak for themselves, at some point people stop looking and start acting. I contend with the notion that Marx had more responsibility accountable to him concerning all that Alexandr I. Solzhenitsyn had to suffer, and 20 million other terrorized and murdered people, Marx more than Wall Street (the people not the thing), and Marx more than Stalin?

Really?

Marx wrote ideas down on paper, some of his ideas were good ideas, I can quote one, and much of his ideas were stolen, it seems to me.

Wall Street (the people not the thing) financed the rise of Hitler (fascist) and the rise of Roosevelt (fascist/communist) and the rise of Stalin (communist), almost exactly verbatim from the book 1984, not the labels, but the actions.

When was the book 1984 written, and how was Orwell so capable of such astute understanding?

Follow the money?

I wish that I could be discussing these things with you and Alex Jones, and Ron Paul, and Jesse Ventura, and Gerald Celente, so as to refine my own understanding, to do so with worthy, and even more worthy, competitors.

I'm just an average Joe, but if I can get this far, how far have the above average gotten?

Howard Bloom, for example, all that he is, he is not average.

Out for a moment.

"It doesn’t seem so to me when I must sacrifice my power for the collective good of the whole as in social security or nationalized healthcare."

Much can be confused in words and deeds, but a family constitutes all that is said about socialism so why is the meaning of the word not as good for the goose as it is for the gander?

Perhaps the word is miscommunicated on purpose for some profitable reason.

"It seems to me that when an individual sacrifices for the whole the individual no longer has a say in what is good for the whole."

When it is sacrifice then it is, and when it is counterfeit sacrifice it isn't, so which are you claiming it to be now?

Sacrifice is the choice by the person who sacrifices, having the choice to sacrifice or not sacrifice according to the individual making that accurate determination within the power that the individual commands voluntarily, without being "made to sacrifice" by hook or by crook from the power of some other individual commanding the power of deceit, threat of violence, or violence whereby the "counterfeit sacrifice" is merely a choice to obey the order or suffer the ONE non-alternative.

An offer that can't be refused.

I am going to make myself an offer I can't refuse?

Really?

A family, again being a rather good example, works as a family, or pretends to work as a family, whereby either it is one, or there is a counterfeit version of one, such that the actual family is constituted by productive people capable of producing and reproducing productive people and a counterfeit version of a family is counter productive people incapable of producing and reproducing productive people yet, like magic, somehow, the children, some of them, still manage to grow up and survive, and some of them, despite having been born into a world by counterfeit parents, are still able to become honest productive people, breaking the counterfeit mold, and managing, somehow, to invent a productive example of a family despite all the forces, and despite all the powers, that align against such things, including the force, and the power, of counterfeit parents who are no different than any other criminal with two legs, whereby the choices they make, making them criminals by their voluntary choices, is to resort to deceit, as a means of gaining power at the expense of their targeted children, and resort the threats of violence as a means of gaining power at the expense of their targeted children, and resort to terrifying horrible violence to gain power at the expense of their children.

When I say that socialism is exemplified in the family unit I don't mean that Stalin's version of communism, having tortured and murdered 20 million non-combatants, is exemplified in the family of incestuous psychopaths and sociopaths posing as a family.

I don't confuse the two.

What would be the point of confusing the two?

I can guess.

The bad looks less bad, and are thereby well hidden.

The good is soiled by the close association, and as well hidden.

How convenient can it get?

"Who is going to collect all my sacrifice and determine what is good for everyone else."

In the case of voluntary anything, call it socialism, or call it capitalism (using that specific pricing method), or call it Fried Chicken, there is no "collecting" according to the language and custom of a fashionable regime of Legal Crime.

1. Real version
2. Not 1

"How about if I choose what I sacrifice and use that chosen sacrifice as deemed best by my sovereign self and determine what good I want to see done with that sacrifice and for which certain sovereign individuals it is to be done and not with or for the nebulous whole even if that said sacrifice is less powerful if not collected?"

You mean socialism?

Oh, wait, the label you put on it is authorized by you, and no one else, unless other people agree with the label, which is the polar opposite of anyone being forced by anyone else to obey without question.

A rose by any other name is a figure of speech offered by Shakespeare.

I agree with it, since the rose still smells as sweat, even if you prefer to call it Fried Chicken.

"Why did the USSR use Socialist in its title if it is Communism is not Socialist?"

Good question. I'm not the authority on the revolving doors. Why did the Blue states suddenly change from Capitalist to Socialist at the same time that the Red states turned their colors, turned their coats, as suddenly from Socialist to Capitalist?

Were the victims growing too wise to the game, and they needed a little confusion as to which was which?

Friend or Foe?

If the supposedly independent Liberals are supposedly independent from the supposedly independent Conservatives then there might have been a fight over who gets to be RED, but there wasn't, as if on cue the supposedly independent Liberals took on the BLUE coat and abandoned the RED coat at the exact same time that the supposedly independent Conservatives abandoned the BLUE coat and donned the RED coats.

I caught it right away, other people did so too. For as long as I can remember the BLUE STATES were the conservative republican capitalist STATES, and I remember the skies were not checker-boarded with vapor trails too, and then suddenly, conservative republican capitalists are RED STATES?

Hold on a minute! Just how stupid do they think we are exactly?

Hold on, I need to go check the imagine reflecting back when I look in the mirror, while I pinch myself a few more times.

No lie, same idiot staring back, same pain each pinch. Welcome to reality.

Where is my escape hatch?

"I fear that with the vast amount of information covered so rapidly that I do not come to a valid scientific conclusion before moving to another topic or multiple topics at that same time. I am not an equal in ability to you. It took nearly a week for me to get to an understanding of why the SSN was not key. I still have a lot of questions about Korea and Who is Judge, and your thoughts on my thoughts as replied on marriage and your requested information on Bible slavery, but I am not writing another word about another subject until my perception is clarified if you think it worth the time. Perhaps my inability to completely come to correct conclusions causes a collective power of assumptions that are malformed."

I did the same thing. I looked in the mirror, again not figuratively, not a lie, not a cover story, actual reality, the solutions are individual, in time, in space, it is the actual condition of human life, such as God, or whatever power made it.

Welcome aboard, and thanks for being a part of it, your help is appreciated, and please know:

Give me Liberty or get the hell out of my way.

If you confuse liberty with the legion of counterfeit versions then get the hell out of my way and if that confusion of yours brings you to the brink of self-destruction then perhaps, just maybe, you aught to take your own advice, the advice you offer to me, from your knowledge of God.

When push comes to shove, each time, there will be a narrowing down of paths to take, the narrowing down resolves into the last two choices, and then the one choice you make is made by you, even if you choose to do nothing, even if you choose to step backwards, even if you choose to place the choice in the hands of God.

You have your fears, I told you mine.

You can fear me, I can wise you up on that misdirection of your power, or I can fail in that goal.

Blame me.

"The bigger the socialized unit the less the individual responsibility and thus the greater collected power is wasted before it meets its intended goal leaving a lessor collected power than if that power was used responsibly and individually."

A family (stop using socialism as the word in place of a family if that confuses you) is as big as needed in any case, as designed, so as to keep the family alive against all powers that will destroy it.

One person can't do everything, as you school me, that is God (not even God's work). Just God?

I am going to entertain myself now with a trip to the store to buy a birthday present, put all this aside long enough to present myself with an example of what is good about life, finding my own happiness, and sharing that as best I can with my family.

I have no problem claiming that this that I choose do to is both voluntary socialism and voluntary capitalism (capitalism when I use that specific pricing method) or Fried Chicken since I know the meaning, and the word is merely a tool used to reach the goal of accurate communication.

Honestly

Joe

Asking

I laughed uncontrollably about what you said I said about you being God. Then I wanted to cry because I realized you did not think it was funny at all, not one bit.

I am at a loss for words and I feel sad and terrible for the degeneration of what has appeared to be equitable and educational communication, much enjoyed on my part, and also perhaps causing a downer when there is a birthday to be celebrated. I appreciate the time you have taken to bring me along and the power you have used on my behalf to help me with all of my questions to help me understand what I do not understand and to see the Legal Criminal System.

Public miscommunication, accusations, name calling and character assassination are not my goal. My goal is to understand while at the same time to not be misled by anyone with a distant and dangerous song within this tricky landscape of Liberty. I have done that by being honest and by asking questions. It was not my goal to waste time or to publicly hang you, but to put all of my cards face up on the table so that you could know where I was at in our discussions. I am especially concerned since I wear the name Christian, publicly and personally, that I have been offensive. That was never my goal.

Why can’t you just say: I am not a communist; I am not a socialist; I am an American Hero who ran for office in defense of the victims at the Waco Massacre; I am a husband, a father a well-read ecopolitical philosopher, a writer, a musician, as well as a laborer with a reality license and if I have said anything to cause you those concerns you alerted me to it was not my intent. While I believe the family structure is a picture of true socialism in the purest sense, that does not mean that I advocate socialism or communism as an ecopolitical theory for society as a whole. I advocate individual liberty, responsibility and Joe's Law ensuring a competitive free market within a Democratic Federated Republic with Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness for all to include the weak and innocent tortured victims from sea to shining sea.

Now is that so hard, or is that not the truth? And if it is not the truth, what needs to be said differently? That is what I am asking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6LCxSPSwxo&feature=autoplay&...

Authorities

"Now is that so hard, or is that not the truth?"

The author is not me.

I spent more time than I can remember in the futile effort to re-read much of your comments in search of a word you used in reference to Christian Scripture concerning surety or third party debt obligations. I could not find that Biblical word that I thought I read in one of your responses. Do you know of this Biblical word for surety?

While re-reading I found a comment concerning who backed Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. If your perspective is accurate then those pesky communists are guilty, and there will be names of people having various degree of direct responsibility. If many other people are right then you are not right and the backers of that award winning Legal Criminal are "our" own.

Here is where, I suppose, my pointing out that there may be confusion over which Legal Criminals financed which Legal Criminals can be misunderstood to be me lending moral support to the Legal Criminals who are not guilty of this particularly exemplary offense.

By a very long measure the Khmer Rouge regime stands out as the most destructive case of Crime being Legal, far in excess of any other competitor if the measure is the Legalized Mass Murder of everyone who does not Obey without question, which is, in fact, everyone.

From my copy of Death by Government here are the top three Regimes of Legal Crime calculated by percent of "citizens" fixed with the tried and true Final Solution:

Pol Pot 1975-79 31.28% overall - 8.36% Annually
USSR 1917-87 29.64% overall - .45 Annually
Nazi 1933-45 5.46% overall - .91 Annually
China 1949-87 4.49% overall - .12 Annually

It may be a good idea to blame the right people instead of convicting the wrong people concerning who lent moral and material support to the worst of the worst by a looooooooooooooooooooong country mile.

One voice on the subject:

"The Reagan Administration’s continued aid and support to Pol Pot in Cambodia, the most genocidal butcher of our time, is more reprehensible but less visible to most Americans. As a result, Pol Pot’s thugs are mobilizing at this very moment on the Thai border to return and take over Cambodia as soon as the Vietnamese pull out, presumably to renew their bizarre mass murders. But you see, that’s okay with the Reaganites because the Cambodian Commies are guerrilla fighters against the Vietnamese (pro-Soviet) Commies, who by definition are evil. Pol Pot’s butchers as "freedom fighters" show us that, in the arsenal of the Reaganite Right, "freedom," like "taxes" and many other crucial words, means, as in the case of Humpty Dumpty, whatever they choose it to."

Joe

Still Asking

I know those are not your words. That was just an example of what you might say so I could understand your philosophy in my simple mind. I still want your cards face up on the table so that I know where I am in discussions with you. I don't care either way what you advocate in the sense of whether I will continue to speak with you, I just want to know in simple specific terms who you are and what you advocate as your political philosophy in your own words, but simple please so I can understand without reading between the lines so that I do not make a false assumption.

If you believe in something enough to advocate it and spend 20 years at it, will you not succinctly state it, stand by it and defend it, whatever it might be, instead of telling me that I want to publicly execute you thus avoiding the subject?
___________________
ON SURETY:

http://www.biblestudytools.com/search/?q=surety&c=pr&t=kjv&p...

http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/arab.html

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2589935
_______________________
There is so much I still want to talk about.

.

Accurate angles of view

Your writing of what I might say if I were you sounds like an accurate angle of view.

Thanks for the links on surety (surety was the word, but I thought you had used a different word, my mistake):

"It is my guess that early in American history we, the victims, were unable to deliver ourselves from our lenders and it has only gotten worse. It seems I remember debt financed the Revolutionary War?"

When the insiders finance one side (or both sides) of a war they tend to borrow from other people by printing legal monopoly money (a tax scheme) while they prefer to be paid for their services in Gold or Silver or any currency of highest value at the time and The Revolutionary war, and Shays's Rebellion show how that worked then too.

The "merchants" (of death) who managed to get "no bid" contracts to supply the Rebels in The Revolutionary War were those who constituted WAR DEBT lenders and they wanted to be paid back "on par" for their "contributions" to the war effort, where they may have charged a whole lot and they may have actually left the soldiers out in the cold without socks or boots.

The "government" borrows on the Good Faith and Credit of The American People when they print emergency war money without which those "government" borrowers would have to pay interest on the debt were they to borrow from the "merchants" or whomever has a lot of power accumulated in BANKS (Gold and Silver or warehouses full of socks, boots, tomatoes in jars or tanks full of oil, or yards full of steel, or coal, or amber waves of grain in silos, etc.) as such:

The Enemy is past the gate and currently raping and pillaging (what they do best in Legal Crime) so choices, choices, choices:

1.
Invent a way to pay for things needed in advance (I.O.U.s)

2.
Borrow from those in the lending business, at "market prices"

Does this sound at all familiar?

Surety can be ensured by inventive people who are ready willing and able to resort to deceit, threats of violence, and actual violence as a means of "making a living", where the costs are passed onto the "customers" and the war profiteers "make a killing" when they are the only choice in town - for some strange reason.

The colonists turned rebels choose option 1. I.O.U.s

Who got paid back on par and who got paid back with worthless paper?

The Soldiers of The Revolutionary War returning to their farms were paid back with worthless paper and land titles. Many had to eat so they sold their land titles to the George Washington types, or the Merchants, or the Bankers, for worthless paper or gold, anything that had power to buy food, or seeds, since money, actual money with purchasing power was made scarce, as it a just happened to be shipped off shore or in bank vaults and desperation makes people do desperate things.

Once on farms, again, they had to make ends meet, without land titles they sold for more worthless paper, and so they made whiskey as a form of money.

Where did all the gold go?

The merchants were insisting on being paid back in gold for their generous lending practices and their generous supplies to the war effort at war effort prices, again, does this sound at all familiar?

"It is my guess that early in American history we, the victims, were unable to deliver ourselves from our lenders and it has only gotten worse. It seems I remember debt financed the Revolutionary War?"

If those same merchants could, is it possible that they would, also sell boots, food, guns, ammo, etc., to the British at the same time they were supplying arms to The Indians, The French, and The Rebels?

Would such accounts be public access information or a little harder to find?

If The People were left alone would it be more or less likely to be in dire need of an invention such as an I.O.U. or in need of a loan at exorbitant interest whereby everyone is made into debt slaves as sure as surety ever existed anywhere?

Did you look into Islamic Finance where the lender shares responsibility with the borrower as to the costs associated with risk?

I'm not to be confused with a person who lends moral or material support to Islamic Finance unless that is done falsely for some reason. The concept of being responsible is individual, and therefore the lender is responsible, being an individual who chooses to lend, and I could just as easily be accused of stealing the idea as being a moral supporter of it.

It is what it is.

Joe

Additionally

These were the words said to me on the DP yesterday outside of our safe communication:

"You're not the only one who can cherry pick whatever they want. Now please, get off the internet and then castrate yourself. We don't need you breeding and then indoctrinating some poor children to the point that their brains get destroyed."

They were said by someone prolaiming to be an Anarchist because my cards were on the table as being a Christian. It is that spirit that concerns me; and yet, they certainly put their cards out on the table for me to see. That is someone I will avoid if at all possible. Hopefully I will never meet that spirit at my front door.

Hiding

Hiding is a clue.

If a person requires a Label, for whatever reason, it may be a good idea to look behind the curtain.

Josiah Warren ran into people claiming that he was this or that LABEL, and the response was a complete rejection of labels.

People are either responsible or they are not, and the actual accounting is either accurate or it is not, so the person who authored those words did so, not anyone else, just that person.

I'd avoid that person too, what would be the point of maintaining a voluntary connection to such an author of such words?

Joe

Labels

I haven't looked into anything about Islamic Finance. My only concern has been to establish what exactly is your political philosophy. It is not so I can publicly hang you. It is so I can have an understanding or a framework on which to hang what we discuss. I have never been into Political Economy or politics or economics and I am getting confused. I have been a straight ticket red white and blue patriotic republican my whole voting life and probably before, since I remember being pro Nixon in the 4th grade (because my parents were). I am only interested now because I sense something is wrong here in the USA. It seems the country I live in is becoming unrecognizable.

I am very sorry to have been offensive in my quest. I am just at such a loss. All of this Libertarian, Anarchy, Socialism, Equitable stuff is more than I can understand. Well I can understand it, it is just a complete 180 from the way I am used to thinking. So I feel I am going in circles. I never even knew there were so many political philosophies in my life. I am Pollyanna and myopic --I didn’t even know who Pollyanna was until a friend accused me of it –that is how small my world is. I just want concrete answers in which I can rest. I just want to know where I am going before I get there.

“If a person requires a Label, for whatever reason, it may be a good idea to look behind the curtain.”

I am feeling like a person who won’t give a label is hiding behind a curtain and I want to know why.

I am finding the words

“Your writing of what I might say if I were you sounds like an accurate angle of view.”

to be such that I cannot understand what is being said.

“What you might say if I were you”

does that mean

1) what I wrote is an accurate description of you from your point of view of what is the truth

2) or is it just at my angle of view which is not knowing the whole story?

I don’t know why it is so hard for me to understand meanings.

You said other people cut the conversation short and moderators pull the plug. What is so wrong with what you say? Can you tell me so I can know what is so terrible. You have said I should be afraid because you do not hold much back. Why did you get so mad at me for telling you my concern? Is it because I used labels in public? I was not trying to be rude or accusative. Is it because Josiah Warren got tagged with labels and had to reject them? Is it because labels are misunderstood? If you have gotten censored, why couldn’t you just make a paragraph about yourself like I did?

You don’t sound like an average Joe to me, and certainly you are not.

.

Competition

"I haven't looked into anything about Islamic Finance. My only concern has been to establish what exactly is your political philosophy."

My political economy understanding (philosophy?) is written as a Power Equation. The path traveled to get to that power equation and understanding political economy was a perception of a need to know better so as to be in a position to make better choices.

Do the right thing and be in a position to do the right thing.

Islamic Finance is competitive as is confirmed by a search on Google for growth rate reports that I have not looked at for a long time yet the reports appear to be the same as the last time I looked and 15 to 20 percent is one report of growth.

How can anyone know if the right thing is the right thing to do, to think, or to know?

The right thing will be obvious compared to an obvious thing that is less right?

If everyone chooses the wrong thing how can that fact be known?

No one finds a way to stop the end of life on Earth?

Here is where I found Howard Bloom to be wrong from my viewpoint. That could easily be a mistake on my part. The concept of battling an ideology (or meme) by crushing it violently sounds a whole lot like saying that violence is a solution to a problem, or a competitive choice when doing the right thing is being considered at a point of judgement between a violent or a nonviolent act, and the power to choose chooses the violent act.

Howard, as far as I know, has command of the power of communication, so any crushing he personally does is done by way of the pen not the sword. His weapon is aimed at people's minds. He is scientist and then messenger boy concerning his findings to date, and it appeared to be my job to question his findings including such things as asking for an explanation concerning the evolutionary advantage of deceit employed by a species upon members of the same species.

I can't see the "leverage".

It appears to me as a species killer, and therefore counter evolutionary, and perhaps there is a scripture version of this line of thinking along the lines of original sin.

If error was made in this human experiment (you might call it God's will, not an experiment, but for mere God's creation like me, it looks a lot like an experiment) and accountability of the error is accounted to each individual member of the species as deceit is chosen as a means by which one member of the species may gain some advantage over another member of the species, and combining all those decisions collectively as a total amount of power, my viewpoint by that calculation, computes the end of the species, because too much power is then consumed in the work of inventing deceptions, producing deceptions, and maintaining deceptions, and defending against deceptions, including the deceptions that result in violence (or cover up violence), and there is little, or no, power left to produce sustenance, or children.

Civilized Cannibalism.

There is a way of looking, perhaps not Howard Bloom's specific viewpoint, concerning the adaptive advantage of deceit being tied with creativity, whereby a failure to be unsatisfied with "the way things are" leads to the invention, production, and maintenance of viewpoints that imagine how things may be, a fantasy, a self-deception, an escape from reality, a dream world, a thing called imagination, in invention of something not yet known.

Competition again:

1.
Deception as adaptation

2.
Deception as a weapon used by one person to injure another person or to consume another person in the process of survival at the expense of the other person

Do you see patterns?

The Power to see what can be out of what is can be a productive power or a destructive power.

A destructive power consumes every other living thing and the only way to survive after consuming every other living thing is to consume oneself after every other living thing is consumed.

A productive power produces new things and with new things there is more power to produce new things.

A virus that can kill all life on Earth, for example, would reach a point at which all that was left alive on Earth would be the starving virus, and said virus would then have to depend upon some other power, God's will if you will, to move the virus to another planet.

Human beings, on the other hand, appear to now be able to move to other planets, perhaps not other Solar Systems, but which of God's Children would have thought that human beings could visit the moon: Adam or Eve, before or after eating the forbidden fruit?

If the human experiment is a virus to all other life, such as is the case with a sociopath or psychopathic serial killer capable of consuming 20 million to 1 in his life time, in the case of Stalin, or in the case of Pol Pot being able to consume more than 8% reverse growth rate per year when is destructive power peaked, probably both killing their fair share of little animals, torturing them to death too, then who can explain, rationally, "over-population"?

We humans breed so fast that there must be some of us doing some weeding?

The pattern here, to me, is the same thing again:

1.
Destructive power, deceit, threats of violence, and aggressive violence.

2.
Productive power used to produce more productive power.

Fertility rates falling below a certain number, 1.7 I think, I don't remember, is a condition of extinction of that species, and that condition can be brought on by such things as rapid destruction of a large percentage of the population, whereby the survivors are rendered psychologically incapable of reproducing, studies have been done, or so I've read.

The human body itself becomes destructive of itself, producing chemicals that cause the person to feed upon itself, a very depressing thought.

Is there falsehood in that too?

If you didn't need anyone else to give you permission to loan yourself money, at your own cost, and thereby earn a measure of good faith and credit, accurately measured, because you pay yourself back every penny you borrow from yourself, plus interest, then would you make that choice any time that you knew how to use your power to make more power which is then more power to work with in the work of making even more power, or would you instead choose to keep your level of power at the current level, or would you choose to consume your current power, and consume more of your current power, and consume all of your power, again having no connection to anyone else, no need for any other person to give you permission, and also no means by which you can then, once powerless, connect to other people and suck the life out of them too?

"I haven't looked into anything about Islamic Finance."

A.
Borrow from very powerful people whose power is gained by consuming other people, sucking the life out of other people, and for that choice you get to pay the lender of last resort back the whole amount borrowed plus 2 times more than the whole amount borrowed, and in any case of failure to pay back any amount less than the whole amount, plus interest, the lender takes everything you still have that isn't nailed down, plus the nails, and then everything that you had that was nailed down.

B.
Borrow from yourself, or someone willing to invest in the possibility, but certainly not a certainty, of your honest ability to pay back yourself every penny you borrowed plus a very real possibility that you can make more out of less and share those profits with other people, you get to keep some of your earnings, and you can be charitable with some of your earnings that result from your having the power to borrow from your own good faith and credit.

Any patterns visible to you, or might I be deceiving myself, or is it possible that an external power is deceiving me despite my use of my will power to know better and do the right thing?

"I have never been into Political Economy or politics or economics and I am getting confused."

You are where I was and I am still getting confused, but now I have a working understanding of Political Economy with my Power Law. The things that confuse me concern Spiritual Connections, since I think I have to human connections figured out well enough to avoid much of the confusion that is no longer able to confuse me.

"I am only interested now because I sense something is wrong here in the USA."

That is a return to the same point at which I stopped in one of my last replies and I can stop here again. I prefer to go through all of your above response, and answer everything within reason (limits of time and energy which is power), but I think it is prudent, despite my preference, to stop here at this point again.

I think you are suffering from a fundamental lie.

"It seems the country I live in is becoming unrecognizable."

I think the lie is misplaced accountability that is accurately attributable to individual people making individual decisions and instead the accountability being done is falsely targeting a fictitious thing.

Perhaps I am wrong and you are not doing that, and therefore I can press on?

"Well I can understand it, it is just a complete 180 from the way I am used to thinking. So I feel I am going in circles."

I see patterns, and I see circles of thinking where an observation begins and after much inspection the original thought returns too, but that is no longer confusing to me, since I have grown to be able to retrace my thinking through the same circle, over and over again, and then step back and look as the same repetitive circle being that which it is, and how that circle of thinking compares with other thoughts that can't be contained in a sound bite.

Power produced into oversupply reduces the price of power while purchasing power increases because power reduces the cost of production and the result is less power being used to make even more power further increasing the supply of power and further reducing the price of power and further increasing the power to purchase because the cost of producing power reduces further.

Is that a pattern or a circle? There is a counterfeit version that goes like this:

It takes money to make money.

"I never even knew there were so many political philosophies in my life."

I think that there are as many political philosophies as there are grains of sand on all the oceans on all the planets in the universe and it may help you as it has helped me to start looking for the common denominators that connect each one or separate each one, where the common denominators reduce down to one or two.

When arriving at two, there is an obviously better one.

"I just want to know where I am going before I get there."

I get that. If you can tell me what a Pollyanna is then I'll get there, but I want to get there: not a counterfeit version so I won't look in a dictionary. I want to know your version of what a Pollyanna is, and the introduction of a dictionary may be counter productive to that desired goal.

1) what I wrote is an accurate description of you from your point of view of what is the truth

Yes (but not my angle of view)

2) or is it just at my angle of view which is not knowing the whole story?

Yes (my angle of view is more comprehensive since no matter where I go I'm still there)

"I don’t know why it is so hard for me to understand meanings."

I still try to read Noam Chomsky's book titled On Language. It is written in English, yet I can't seem to comprehend a paragraph despite being able to understand some of the sentences.

"You said other people cut the conversation short and moderators pull the plug. What is so wrong with what you say?"

I think that I challenge their falsehoods, things they know are false, yet they want to maintain the illusion of truth, so I become the enemy. The act of censorship is dictatorial in these cases, note here as an example of the opposite. I had trouble getting in, something to do with a spam filter, but once here no one has taken up my challenges, so there is no one being threatened, so there is nothing to hide, apparently.

At The Free State web site I remember immediately being removed from the General Topic page, but I was moved to an off-topic page. I keep up a few Threads, saying the same things I always say, being challenged by some people, and one day, after more than a few years, my threads were deleted, every one of them, just vanishing, and my access was denied.

That is typical and if I were dictatorial I would do it that way too, no explanation, just press the button to send everything down The Memory Hole (in the book 1984 there was a thing called The Memory Hole where all undesirable history was sent, any challenge to the "Official Truth" was erased), since any "press" is bad press, and if every trace can be erased at once, then the power that challenges is minimized within the power of the dictator to do so.

In the case of the Austrian Economics censorship the Forum is long gone but I wrote many things, including illustrations of my own, for what may have been a year long stay, and then I mentioned something about 911 being an inside Job, and there was a campaign to censor me published as a published exchange between me and the moderator. I have portions of that copied on my own web site, and they kept that record of that censorship on their own web site. I don't know if they (the moderators) were so stupid as to actually believe they were in the right but the record showed the exact opposite of their stated goals of seeking competitive points of view, they were suppressing my viewpoint, actually ordering me to not repeat a specific sentence in English. Then the plug was pulled, no access.

The Austrian Economics moderators keep that example of them doing the opposite of what they say they do, they kept that record published on their own site for another year, I never regained access, there was no point at that point, they could have merely asked me to leave, and I would have said fine, I'll leave since you do not welcome my viewpoint despite your own advertized welcome of competitive viewpoints, talk about Free Markets.

I was removed from The Fully Informed Jury Association web site, similar things, but that moderator was very quick to censor completely, immediately erasing all my work up to that date, convicting me without trial.

Alex Jones's Prison Planet allowed me on for about 6 months, and I published my same viewpoints for pages and pages, and there were examples of some discussion, mostly my own work again, and then attack by a moderator, obviously starting a "flame war", me being defensive, exposing all the tactics the moderator uses before he uses them, and the plug get's pulled there too, no access.

They don't say: Please leave we don't want your viewpoint published here.

I would just leave, what would be the point of staying?

They feel the need to attack me personally, not the words I publish, attack me personally, then they claim that my defensive words are attacks on them, they blame me for starting a flame war, as I tell them before they do it that that is what they will do on this path they choose to go on, and they then pull the plug just like I tell them they are going to do, and in that case everything was erased, leaving no trace of my ever publishing a word on that forum as expected.

Monopolists abhor competition since competition take power from them and they are forced to adapt, invent, refine, improve, and lower costs, or resort to deceit, resort to threats of violence, or resort to violence as a means of crushing the competition.

If I pose no threat then there is no effort to "shoot the messenger".

"You have said I should be afraid because you do not hold much back."

Consider using quotes in context. What I remember is you reacting emotionally to things that I write and then my warning to you that I will write things that may inspire you similarly. Had you not reacted emotionally, becoming sad, or whatever, I would have had no cause to make any warnings in your specific case.

"Why did you get so mad at me for telling you my concern?"

Consider using quotes so as to connect the context of the question to the question. I don't remember getting mad, nor getting even, and if I "smell a rat" I'll let you know, but that does not mean that I am mad, and that doesn't even mean that I think there is a rat, but my sense of smell exists, so I report what that sense senses - right or wrong. Where was I mad?

"Is it because Josiah Warren got tagged with labels and had to reject them?"

Josiah Warren observed that any supposed law that relies upon a single official interpretation of the words used by the officials to punish people for failing (ignorance is no excuse) to abide by the law is no law at all, rather that is a dictate, so his position, as I understood it to be, is that his position is what he says it is, not what someone else twists his position into for whatever reason the other person may be hiding behind the false versions.

I am not quoting, so my version of Josiah Warrens position on labels may be inaccurate but it is not false on purpose because I know that it is not false on purpose since I am the authority on what I do, not you, and no one but God, if God cares one way or the other, and if I say I am being honest it is a fact reported by me, and if I am not being honest, then it is a lie reported by me, what could possibly be my motive for lying in this case?

I merely use my own words to convey my understanding of the need to avoid placing too much power onto labels, which is what I think Josiah Warren said, since the power of the idea is what it is, not the label, and some people use false labels to hide their motives.

"Is it because labels are misunderstood?"

Inaccuracy is a failure to be accurate, as in lack of care in measuring and reporting, while false labels are not a mistake, false labels are known to be false by those who make them false on purpose so as to cause a targeted victim to be driven down a false path, for some reason, for fun or profit gained by the deceiver at the expense of the targeted victimized victim.

Why be either?

"If you have gotten censored, why couldn’t you just make a paragraph about yourself like I did?"

Can I copy and past your work and use it on pamphlets in case I am trying to sell something some day, run for office, recruit members of Liberty Day 2013 where we all promise to stop using the one Fraud Money and start using a competitive version or two instead?

Joe

FYI

http://www.dailypaul.com/243779/concrete-evidence-shows-us-g...

I don't know what English sentence you used, but it seems the topic is allowed here.

It also appears we had electric cars back in the day. You may have already known: http://www.dailypaul.com/243817/detroit-electric-victoria-ge...

I have written my complete reply below, but ran across these and wanted to let you know about it. Hope it is not a bother.