Ron Paul Supporters Turning Off the Public
Posted September 18th, 2007 by JackHere
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Ron Paul is losing so many potential voters because of the supporters themselves. You are portraying Ron Paul in a negative image to people who have no idea about Ron Paul.
PLEASE STOP ASSOCIATING RON PAUL WITH THE IDEAS OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES.
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HERE ARE SOME QUOTES I HAVE SEEN ON BLOGS:
"Ron Paul's supporters say Ron Paul is not an insane conspiracy theorist, yet somehow every single crazy person out there supports Ron Paul."
"The reprehensible actions of his supporters and his own comments have given Ron Paul more unwanted local exposure than he's ever had."
"The first time that I met a Ron Paul Supporter was last fall during a business meeting; he was part of one of the most unprofessional business groups that I have ever had to deal with. I left the meeting laughing at them and our company went in another direction, the next day. Although the man in question is not related to Rep. Paul (as far as I know) I have been looking at his situation vis-a-vis the Ron Paul campaign as an example of "the nuts don't fall far from the tree". I must thank his supporters and spammers for helping to prove my initial thoughts on his supporters."
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THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA REALIZES THIS NEGATIVE ASSOCIATION AND ARE USING THIS AGAINST RON PAUL...AND IT IS WORKING!
Some people who have heard of him (but don't know anything else about Ron Paul) say, "Yeah, I heard he is a crazy nut."
If we just discussed the issues, it will have a more positive effect. Once you've intrigued the potential supporter, they will learn on their own about everything else just as you did.
We all feel obligated to spread these "hidden" knowledge and it's very infectious. But we would be more successful at "waking up" the American people by focusing on Ron Paul's nomination.
Just talk about what you "found out" about Ron Paul and any normal human being will be curious about him. Let's leave all the other opinions aside until he's been nominated because you're only creating skeptics toward Ron Paul.
We like Ron Paul because he just talks about the issues directly. We should do the same. We don't like mudslinging candidates...so why should we do the same. RON PAUL'S SUPPORTERS ARE THE ONLY NEGATIVE THING THEY CAN ARGUE ABOUT RON PAUL.
It is a such waste losing potential supporters just because some of you are not aware of the image you are associating with Ron Paul. Nobody can argue that everything Ron Paul says makes sense...but people will try to identify themselves with people who support him...and if they think all the supporters are "crazy" then they will not join to support Ron Paul.
Let's just help Ron Paul to the White House...the way he's doing it.
Jack
http://ronpaul.meetup.com...
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Cheer Up!
Ron Paul is, in the words of respected writer Joseph Sobran ('The Honor of Ron Paul' - June 26, 2007) on Pat Buchanan's blog: "He may have become at last what he has always deserved to be: the most respected member of the U.S. Congress. He is also the only Republican candidate for president who is truly what all the others pretend to be, namely, a conservative. His career shows that a patriotic, pacific conservatism isn’t a paradox."
In fact if you read Pat's blog, his blog manager posts many articles/videos about Ron. Pat has been a Ron Paul cheerleader along with Tucker Carlson and John McLaughlin and many other financial experts who speak in the media.
(By the way, before I meet with Ron's handlers about starting up the campaign here in NH, I had a private dinner meeting with Bay Buchanan, Pat's sister, and Tom Tancredo, and we talked about Tom Tancredo's candidacy... Ironically, Bay is Tom's campaign Chair)
See if you can grab this inspiring article here:
http://buchanan.org/blog/...
It is so powerful that I am saving it for my own blog...
PS - anyone who hijacks the campaign with their own issues over Dr. Paul's stated positions and platform is being selfish. Long ago I reckoned with people who wouldn't work within the GOP. I just do what I know has to be done and if they want to come along fine. If not, that's up to them. There are certain things that MUST be done in a campaign, and you know what? Once people do it (see Liz's table at the health expo) they realize that all the other candidates are there making a showing and Ron needs to be there too.
Just remember, it is his membership in the GOP that is allowing him to be on the ballot at all.
Yes I am no longer going to fight with people who will only use revolution signs or won't attend GOP expos. Revolution signs are cute, but it's time to grow up and campaign like the others do if you want the broadest support.
I don't happen to think Ron's constitutional ideas are out of the mainstream and I instead take the approach that GOPers who think like statists are the ones out of step. You can't hit a totally ignorant person with some hidden theory and expect them to listen to the rest of what you have to say.
Ron has such a strong record on republican (small r) values that you have plenty of ammo to start with. I've even had GOPers tell me they are not sure about whether we should start to pull back from Iraq, but they are so inspired by the rest of his background, they are fully supporting him.
re: messaging
This is a very difficult issue. I'm going to try to be as balanced as I can, because we talk about this very frequently, and it is difficult.
The Revolution logo inspires many people to become great activists and symbolizes their intent, but for all that it does accomplish, it scares away a number of people, as well. I think that is because they see it without context, or negatively contextualized. If people understood this as a revolution against bad government, that might help. However, it plays well with a younger, more urbanized, more computer savvy crowd.
The mainstream signage is trying to hope on what I might call the Reagan impulse, that being the optimism and "Hope for America" and a better day. It is a message that should resonate, especially once spoken for in terms of liberty. Campaign after campaign has shown that optimism works, but only if you get a certain amount of friendly coverage. Ron does not.
Where does that leave us? I know that here in Pittsburgh, we've made the conscientious decision to employ different signs in different areas. We go to progressive areas with "Revolution" stuff, and it gets people interested. We go to conservative areas with campaign stuff, and it gets people aware. Different strokes for different folks.
It isn't my job to set the national campaign strategy. Ron Paul, through the choice of people he selects for his national campaign, does that. That said, if I was the advisor, I'd probably gamble on the Revolution, and what will likely have to become an independent run. I would love to see a campaign where they took on Democrats and Republicans as big-state free-spending oligarchs. There's no conspiracy theory there, either. Just cold hard facts substantiated by a ten minute glance at the budget.
People need to be educated, but in a way where the understand why things happen. You can convince people to vote if you talk about their interests, and why a Ron Paul government would help them. Let them ask questions, and use your knowledge to provide the answers. If we had enough people and enough time, it would work.
But, I don't know. I fear we don't. That said, I'm not going to sit back and just let it happen and that's why we all have to get busy. The Revolution logo isn't bad. Being associated with certain left-wing groups, however, may kill Ron's chances as a Republican. Not that they kill his chances altogether, but it is a very different campaign, and honestly, a more fun one, out on the independence trail.
certian left wing groups?
We have 26 internationally active PEACE groups which call my county HOME. Seems to me, these PEACE organizations have MORE in common with Ron Paul than the GOP Christians FOR WAR.
The fact this campaign is avoiding these groups is handing them to Hilary by neglect and defualt. RON PAUL repeatedly states he believes the INDEPENDENTS are going to WIN this campaign... The campaign would have a MUCH better chance getting these certain left winger groups to register Decline to State Party and vote for Ron Paul in the primary than wasting it's time and OUR money focusing on groups who insult him and call him a isolationist wacko.
In his own words..
Trouble is, Ron disagrees with those groups on just about 99% of everything else, except for this particular war. He says they have an 'agenda' (his own words) and that is why he doesn't join them. I'm sure he wouldn't want us to either...
I would personally like to see all this youthful energy revitalize the GOP and get it back to where it belongs, the party of the 'republic'.
I dissagree
antiwar.com is a Libertarian site put out by the Brandon Institute in which RP is published. Justin Raimondo introduced RP to the group at the Rally outside for RP at Google headquarters.
Like many voters in CA who have found VOTER FREEDOM in Decline to State Party registration, many of these groups are DTSP, because like me, they have NO FAITH, TRUST or HOPE in either major corporate whoremongering warmongering party. Those 26 groups and their millions of supporters are the people who would get RP elected. NOT the GOP.
I just got a message from RP who says he talked to a 13 year old girl that told him he was the hope for America, and RP corrected her and said IT IS not me but THE REVOLUTION (which is NOT the GOP!)
Once again, RP and his campaign are NOT on the same page.
??
No one is perfect and not every on can be super articulate. We're all doing the best we can...lighten up! Ron Paul for President!!
There's more than one way to skin a cat
And you can be sure that the cat isn't going to like any of them.
Simple reality is that it is situation dependent.
Under all circumstances, we need to remain polite and positive.
I must admit that the official site http://www.ronpaul2008.co... does not "grab you" when you first hit it and that is a BIG problem for this "sound-byte" dominated world. Needs more impact.
The rEVOLution effort is being discouraged officially, but my opinion is that it's either too late or too early to try to quash the rEVOLution. It seems to me that the "official" folks are getting off to a slow start and now they're trying to influence the grassroots effort that has been growing in strength on a daily basis. It has been working!
The biggest issue is MONEY...
McThompGiuliRomneySon has lots of it and our "official" folks have not done enough to get the funding from any of the bigger money people. We need more ENDORSEMENTS and we need them now.
We need PROgress not CONgress!
On another note, I'd think the largest potential voter block is now the post-WWII folks and we're talking Vietnam-era vets and beyond. Most of them (us) are against the war and the "rEVOLution" banner "gets" to us.
This is the problem with hiring "new-age neoconservatives" from DC to "help" Dr. Paul with the campaign. They've been indoctrinated by the "PC" mentality living and working in and around the beltway and don't see what is really going on in this country.
I'd like to challenge the "official" campaign to start putting out some positive direction beyond the "register and become a delegate" blather that is the first and only direction.
Running the Race to Win
I have supported Ron for years and have been involved in politics since I was a child. I went to John Birch Society meeting with my dad when I was about 10. I can hold my own about the CFR, Trilateral Commision and Black Helicopters with anyone.
While I beleive many of the conspiracy theries to be true (WTC I don't think so, OKC you bet) it isn't the first point you start with when talking with someone. You start with a basic. "I hate the hassle to get on an airplane too, I think there is a better way to combat terrorism" "I hear you about money being tight, things would be better if we weren't working for five months just to pay taxes." "I agree with you that it doesn't look like we are going to win in Iraq, How do you think we got involved there?"
The first goal of this campaign is to win an election. The secondary and as important is eduacational. Either way you have to start with basics and develop from there. For the election there is not time to get everyone to read None Dare Call it Conspiracy and Creature from Jekyl Island but there is time to get their support for Dr Paul based on many of the simple problems that we can all agree on. Later if their interest grows and they learn about more, fantastic.
It is all about getting Dr Paul exposure either nationally or through our personal contact and getting some message across that gives people the opportunity for their ouw "AHAA!!!" moment that we all had that gets them to seek more and we need to be ready to give it. This has to be done repeatedly for success.
We don't throw 5 year olds in college, you start in elementary school and work up. You don't give all information at once out of a fire hose, you give it in the quantitiy and order you think it will be best be received and retained. The people who have used sales analogies are right on here. The public has to feel good about something to want to join the movement. Give A-Z Conspiracies and Why the World Will End Tomarrow all at once and they will either turn you off if they don't beleive you or they will be in complete despair if they do.
Talking only amongst ourselves and getting depressed how others don't see how bad things are won't do it. Bombarding media outlets with anonymous snide e-mails that present anything less that a total fluff piece won't do it. Childish and rude name calling of other candidates won't do it.
Presenting a fun energetic group that LISTENS to others, sees their concerns and offers a solution with an invitation to learn more will. The Public will want to be a part of that.
This is absolutely a subject that has to be addressed and thank you for doing so.
Joe
I'm getting discouraged
This fight between the national campaign and the grassroots is getting me discouraged. Not to brag, but I do A LOT to get Ron Paul's name out there. I'm not stupid; I know how to talk to people and what to talk to them about. All of this fighting is making me lose motivation. It seems like the people in the national campaign are more concerned about their future careers in the GOP than about getting Ron Paul elected. The grassroots people have contact with the "real" public and know what is and what is not effective. For example, I have worn "official" Ron Paul buttons and I have worn "revolution" buttons. Which button do you think people ask about? Of course, the "revolution" one. And they think it is cool. And they want one. And then they want to know all about Ron Paul.
Stuck-up establishment-types who don't like the "revolution" are not going to vote for Ron Paul anyway. Why is the national campaign trying to cater to them?
Because to win a national election...
...Ron need 51 MILLION votes.. give or take. Yes, they grassroots support is great. But you need at least SOME "soccer moms", "nascar dads"... regular people who just don't care to get THAT involved in politics. Even if they don't "get it" as fully as ssome of us regarding the CFR, IRS, etc... we still NEED to get them to vote for Ron.
And another thing....
is that just may be the national campaign should be asking the grassroots for advice about how to run the national campaign rather than the other way around. Ron Paul supporters make Ron Paul look "cool"; the national campaign makes Ron Paul look "boring." For proof just look at the difference between the youtube videos that some of the supporters make and the youtube videos (or even the Iowa TV ads) that the national campaign makes. The supporters' videos are passionate and get you at an emotional level. The national campaign doesn't even know how to engage the emotions (except when it comes to fundraising)!
Right ON laura_cf
I appreciate the points you are making about the comparison to the grassroots and the campaign. I totlally agree with you that the campaign is putting out some boring stuff. The rEVOLution turned allot of people on, and when the campaign came on, they have been really turning supporters off in hopes to gain new support. I had a fellow Ron Paul rEVOLutionary say, "It's as if they are mining for money and since they got ours, they are changing direction to hope to get others" That struck me, because the campaign has definately discouraged long tine supporters who spent allot of bucks of rEVOLution materials only to have the campaign tell them to "can it", and BUY BUY BUY their stuff that doesn't even have FOR PRESIDENT on them.
Unlike you, I do not get discouraged. Maybe it's because I'm a warrior by nature and I see that I've been here three months, while Jack has been here two weeks, so who is Jack to tell me or you or any rEVOLutionary about this campaign? Maybe Jack should be telling us whay he joined DESPITE the rEVOLutionaries?
There are so many GREAT people I've met in this rEVOLution, I'll be damned if I'm going to let the professional campaigners force me out by blaming me, telling me to shut up and move on...
Remember this laura_cf, dirt mixed with crap makes a fine bed for the best flowers and fruits. Plant seeds, pull the weeds, appreciate the rain and love the sun shine. Truth and justice are seeds for me, and I hope for you too.
Open you eyes!!!
It is so ironic that some of you are talking about "waking up" the American people because you think they have closed their minds to the "truth" yet you people can't even open your mind toward the same positive goal of getting Ron Paul elected.
Do you honestly think that his campaign's goal is to make Ron Paul lose the election and their only concern is their future with the GOP?
Please ask yourself...DO YOU WANT RON PAUL AS YOUR PRESIDENT OR NOT? It's as easy as that... Now, ask yourself..."WHAT IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY OF ACHIEVING THIS GOAL?"
I know everyone's excited about finding out these lies and knowledge with the need to let everyone in the nation know about it. I support Ron Paul... I don't really care about anything else...because it's all just complaints with no action to talk about conspiracies right now... I see a solution in front of me and it should be our shared common goal to get him elected.
Stop being weirdos and twisting what I'm saying... All I'm saying is to be aware of how you are being perceived by the public. They're using this negative perception against us...so why are you feeding it?
I have no control over you... Stop complaining about how the campaign is doing this...or that... WHY DO YOU THINK THEY'RE DOING THAT? Our current strategy are getting supporters...but now we are scaring new supporters away! Stop being so immature about this campaign. You're so focused on the fact that you think people are supporting Ron Paul just because of you. PEOPLE ARE JOINING TOGETHER BECAUSE OF RON PAUL. We finally see a solution to a growing problem in our country. There has been so many books about all these problems but now...we actually have a DEFINITE way of making a change...through Ron Paul.
People here are talking about getting discouraged because of the constant negative coverage about Ron Paul and his supporters...now imagine if you didn't know him at all... What would you think of Ron Paul and his supporters?
Jack
http://ronpaul.meetup.com...
My eyes are open Jack
Before Ron Paul placed a bid to Run for office there was a "truther movement" made WITH the family and friends of those who lost family and friends that died in 9-11.
All of us, like in this campaign, came from many different walks of American life, but we agreed on ONE thing, 9-11 investigation was not satisfactory. So along comes Ron Paul, and many "Truthers" said, "Wow, Look at this guy, he's says the 9-11 commission got it wrong, and we agree!" We listened to RP and were inspired by him, and we hoped (Hope for America) this candidate would STAND for us and our unified vision. So the Truther movement became a grassroots movement educating the public about the injustice of the 9-11 investigation and other issues, Aaron Russo climed on the bus (he was there, like 9-11 truthers, before Ron Paul made a bid) and Google's YouTube took off, people watched the videos and the Meetups grew and grew and people came with real hope the WE the PEOPLE we're going to make a difference. The YouTube rEVOLution expanded to a presidential campaign, and as it expanded, things began to change. Rachel used to make funny inspiractional videos, the campaign hired her and we've never heard from her again on YouTube. People on this site were saying 9-11 truthers were NOT welcome to the Meetups THEY started, and Meetup orgqanizers stepped down and those who stepped up, closed the message boards, brought Bibles to Meetings and wanted prayers, told us the King James Bible is the ONLY Bible and to read it everyday, and Meetups on the main Message board started reporting problems.
I honestly believe the GOP that was hired for Ron Paul's campaign, like Jeff Greenspan for the western regional district, don't want Ron paul to win. Why? He was on the radio bragging about turning down the offer from the Ron Paul campaign to be regional director, and accepted the second time. We the people of the western region asked each other, "Would you have turned down such an offer?" We all agreed NO WE WOULD NOT! So who is this guy and why is the campaign so desperate to have someone like this?
We wrote to the campaign and wrote to the campaign, and they sent us messages they were busy, they were moving, they read our letters and would contact us...but they never did. So we called them and they told us to send in our "complaints", suggestions and we did and we never heard from them. I called back and said, Why haven't we heard from you and was told, "What you submitted was turned over the authorities."
Now allot of us started wondering what was meant by that. What authorities? What the hell is going on?
Well, the campaign tells us, put down the revolution signs, and BUY our campaign signs. Don't talk about Ron paul, let us talk about Ron Paul, Ron Paul doesn't think 9-11 was an inside job so SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP and send us money more money more money.
If you check out the 850 or so Meetups Jack, you will see a great deal are ONE person. There is TWO people in majority, and the big big groups like San Francisco, where they have over 200 members, 4 people show up. Ron Paul went to Frisco a few weeks ago, and so Meetups members pitched in so I could talk to the campaign. I didn't go to meet Ron Paul. I went to talk to the campaign. They didn't want to talk.. I brought a group from NoCAL. I met people from all over CA, and I'd have to say at the march if we had 40 people, that was TOPS. Where were the other 200 Frisco Meetups members there to see Ron Paul?
Did you check out any news about Frisco Ron Paul? THERE WASN"T ANY. There was one article in a national paper that was a blurb. The Meetup group there didn't even advertize...so folks like me Jack, are hanging on by a thread at this point because all those wonderful people I meet months ago have said, "THE CAMPAIGN SUCKS! They are bogus GOP blowhards who don't listen to RON PAUL, but are friggin nazis telling us to register GOP or get lost. They got lost Jack. Look at the Meetups. Sure, they'll vote for Ron Paul IF, the GOP allows Decline to State Party votes on their ballot, which is what this campaign should have FOUGHT HARD for, because here in CA, Decline to State Party is TRUE VOTER FREEDOM, and like Ron paul says, "Freedom is popular".
Now this thing about "I have no control over you". That is exactly what Jeff Greenspan said to a Meetup organizer he wrote in an email telling that organizer to drop another Meetup organizer from a Meetup. And as that email went around the nation, we again asked ourselves.."What is up with this campaign telling Meetup organizers who to drop? And what this thing about "We can't control her?" No friggin crap! FREEDOM IS POPULAR and none of us got into this to be "Controlled" or in your case BLAMED by the campaign or GOP supporters.
I figured what's going on is the GOP has come into this campaign to mine supporters for money and chase away Independet and liberal votes, because the truth is, they don't want Ron Paul to win, they have NO faith in Ron Paul. They have faith in the POWER of the GRAND OL' PARTY.
Look at this crap they're trying to "SELL" us Jack: Pauloween? For christs sake, they are either the stupidest salesmen on the planet or they are trying to kill this campaign from the inside.
So now that the Truthers who started this have gone, and the creative artists and the new music have been turned off by the BORING crap this campaign shoves down our throats for more money more money more money, and NEVER once takes into consideration how much money we spent on what got people interested in the first place...it's leaving the campaign with someone like you BLAMING someone like me.
How did you come into this campaign Jack despite my long hair and rEVOLution signs? Why didn't that scare YOU off jack? Are you saying you're a bigger man than folks like my Dad a three war Vet life long Republican who says Ron Paul is WRONG for the GOP and all Libertairians are wackos?
Seems to me Jack, you're here to chase supporters OUT, in "hopes" you can get guys like my Dad in. And you know what Jack... my Dad is not going to support Ron Paul because the GOP doesn't like Ron Paul.
Furthermore Jack, when Bush comes to town and Ron Paul organizers go inside to sit with Bush and refuse to be seen with the hundreds of war protesters outside,,,that doesn't help the campaign because truth is Jack, The Democrats would register decline to state party and vote for RON PAUL if they thought they were going to end the war. But this campaign doesn't want to comporise with respect to Democrats, it wants to CONVERT them. BIG BIG turn off here in CA Jack. It's NO way to win an election.
I hope you eyes are opened a little.
Intelligent Americans LOVE Conspiracy Theory
This just came out minutes ago: http://media.www.smithsop...
I respect Ron Paul for making 9-11 a foriegn policy issue knowing ultimately he's asking for the same thing as me: A NEW investigation.
I'm kinda curious Jack, If those like me pulled out of the campaign, and I've met more like me in Northern CA and NV than those like you, you think Ron Paul would win?
WOW...THEN USE YOUR BRAIN!!?
You make no sense... Of course, you're going to meet more people who believe all the "conspiracies." EVERYONE WHO SUPPORTS RON PAUL EVENTUALLY FINDS OUT ABOUT THESE CONSPIRACIES!
THE PROBLEM IS...THE MAJORITY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING...BUT WE NEED THEIR VOTES!!
STOP PUTTING YOURSELF ON THE PEDESTAL JUST BECAUSE YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT THESE "CONSPIRACIES"! So, what?! You think you're more intelligent that everyone just because some people don't know?! The only reason is because they trusted their government!
You think it takes intelligence to keep a relationship too?! People cheat on their loved ones all the time... It's not that the other person is dumb... It's because they trust the other person and can not believe that they would do something like that. That's how they feel about the U.S. gov't.
I respect Ron Paul in every aspect but I do not respect anyone who is just trying to associate Ron Paul for their own intentions of trying to be the hero. What is it going to take to make you understand?! Stop acting like wackos for just a minute!!
So, what if the 9-11 was a set-up!? So, what if the CFR is doing all these shady things? All you people are doing is complaining...
WHAT THE FUCK IS IT GOING TO TAKE TO GET YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE PRIORITY IS GETTING RON PAUL ELECTED?!!
Do you want to keep complaining about the government or do something that would help stop all this???!! You just all think you are all high and mighty because you might know something that most American people don't know...so what?!! What can you possibly do about it without the help of EVERYONE and without RON PAUL AS PRESIDENT!!?
THE "WACKOS" ARE THE ONLY NEGATIVE ARGUMENT THE MEDIA AND HIS OPPONENTS ARE USING AGAINST RON PAUL...AND IT HAS BEEN THE MOST EFFECTIVE!!!
People are turning away from Ron Paul because of his own supporters! Is it really worth it for you to be able to get all this information out and disregard how it's affecting Ron Paul's campaign??!
If that's your idea of going against the CFR, NAU...well, I suggest you start writing your next president, Mr. Guiliani...because you are leading people who think you are crazy towards him.
Jack
http://ronpaul.meetup.com...
Well said Jack
I agree totally, if people are introduced to Ron Paul through the issues he talks about, eventually they will find out about the more controversial stuff.
But the trick is to let them find that out on thier own, don't get in their face with it. Someone who may support the second amendment may give Ron Paul a look, but if you present to him issues that many people think are wacky, he might shy away without ever looking deeper into it. Once people are able to dig deep and find info out on their own, they will convert.
We also have to understand that everyone that votes might not have an IQ over 100 - so you have to present it differently. Actually there are so many variations of people, presenting Ron Paul to them takes just as many variations in appoach. There is no right way, but if you are intelligent enough to figure out the latest conspiracy theory, then you should be intelligent enough to figure out what type of potential voter you have and to use the appropriate approach.
then you will love this!
http://www.nationalledger...
I'm just waaaaaiting for the day...
..when I read in the press that "Arkansas Neo Nazi Group Endorses Paul"
Don't people realize that they're doing more harm than good by doing stuff like this in Ron Paul's name?
DON'T YOU SEE WHAT YOU'RE DOING TO THE REVOLUTION!?
JUST LOOK AT THE NEGATIVE IMPACT YOU ARE CREATING FOR RON PAUL WHICH IS VERY DAMAGING TO THE CAMPAIGN!!!!!
PLEASE STOP ASSOCIATING RON PAUL WITH YOUR OWN INTENTIONS!!!!!
Jack
http://ronpaul.meetup.com...
http://www.nationalledger...
Andrew Meyer & Ron Paul: Tasered Student Backs Paul for President?
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By Jackson Simpson
Sep 20, 2007
Is it all a conspiracy? A report claims that a Florida student that was arrested at a question and answer session for John Kerry is reportedly a Ron Paul supporter. Now while those that believe Ron Paul is just another long shot crackpot will get a chuckle out of all the "nuts" sticking together the incident in Florida did have its moments.
Andrew Meyer & Ron Paul: Tasered Student Backs Paul for President?
When the student was being arrested, he screamed, "There are people that know I'm here. You can't do things like that." The paranoid student then seemed to believe he would never be heard from again. "Oh my God. You're giving me to the government. (to the camera he continued) They're giving me to the government. They're giving me to the government." He then asked, "Can I get my camera back please?" Oh yes he had a camera at the ready for his YouTube moment in the sun.
***
When a female police officer asked "Who's that with the camera?" Meyer said, "That's my cameraman." So why would he support Ron Paul? I think that's pretty obvious. Good or bad all of the tin foil hat crowd has wandered over into the Ron Paul camp. While sifting through comments about the incident many say that his speech was being shut down - "just like Ron Paul."
Fortunately, no one has tasered the 71-year old Texas congressman. Andrew Meyer and Ron Paul and all the kooks of the world get their chance to speak here in America. They gain popularity on the Internet from those that believe that America has strayed from its roots, and believe that elections are all fixed and the media coverage is all against them.
***
Many of them believe free speech means that captive audiences must be forced to endure every crackpot theory any of them have to offer until they run out of breath. They scream about the First Amendment and the US Constitution as if they actually understand it.
It appears that Andrew wanted attention - his First Amendment rights were not violated. He's free to go to the street corner today and spout election theories until he runs out of breath. He was free to walk out that door and speak that day as well. He chose to saty and fight.
***
But when he was told his allotted time was up under the rules of the event he had to adhere to those rules or face the consequences. Don't feel for him - he got just what he wanted - attention. Too bad he didn't give Ron Paul a shout out and a bump during his scream fest.
The revolution is over Jack
The campaign does not use the term "revolution". The revolution was the conspiracy theories found on YouTube. Most Meetups have killed the revolution as they were issued corporate signs. The campaign is not backing the revolution, it's killing the revolution.
The revolution doesn't need Ron Paul anymore than civil rights needed Martin Luther King or the Suffragists needed Susan B Anthony to continue.
The way we see it, it's your loss, not ours. We're not fearing this crap, you are.
The Revolution Lives in All of Us
Hello Granger, I too have heard the GOP campaign committee asking us to drop the “Revolution” from the official campaign rhetoric and signs. I’ve heard that these new people have a great track record for getting candidates elected. I can pretty much guarantee you that they never had the uphill battle that Ron Paul faces when his own party hierarchy is adamantly against his winning.
If they think that all of a sudden, the GOP is going to say “Oh Ron Paul you were right, you are the chosen one now”, forget it, it isn’t going to happen. It’s the disenfranchised, disillusioned and discouraged people of all the parties including the GOP and angry pricks like me who will rally to Ron Paul and this revolution. I firmly believe that Ron Paul want to save the Republican Party and that my friends will take a revolution.
When Ron Paul begins speaking to a gathering of his supporters he opens with “Thank you for letting me join your revolution!” However, when speaking in a debate or forum of potential supporters and non-supporters, he (to my knowledge) has never mentioned a revolution but simply sticks to the issues. We should follow his lead.
I don’t think the campaign itself was ever the revolution. It was you and me and thousands of people like us. I think what we have here are two separate agendas; one the campaign; the other the revolution. We have our Revolution that Dr. Paul recognizes and that I hope will go beyond his presidential campaign. Our revolution is for the people to take back control of our country. While Dr. Paul’s presidential campaign is our current focus, it is not the “end all” of our goals, or at least it shouldn’t be.
I have been battling the government for many, many years and it has ruined my business and credibility with those who once considered me with favor. So while I understand the campaign concern, I am not likely to give up my revolutionary ways. I acknowledge that if it were not for Ron Paul being the catalyst and focus of this campaign, my fight was going nowhere. It has been very refreshing to now see all of these people waking up and actually seeing what many of us have known for a long time. In fact this awakening by my fellow citizens has only strengthened my opposition to being oppressed.
Does my personal knowledge of the usurpation of our individual rights by our corrupt and or inept leaders make me more capable in this campaign? Probably not, in fact it might make me less capable because of the baggage I already carry from years of fighting this battle. When someone tells me they are going to vote for Hillary or Fred, I want to scream at them “you stupid idiot don’t you know you’re being duped!” of course I don’t but I want to.
From your recent posts (so different from your earlier posts), I sense your anger and concern that the official campaign is now trying to take the power that this revolution has handed them for their own agenda. Is it their intent to sabotage Dr. Paul’s campaign? I certainly hope not but maybe I’m just being naive. Is it possible that Dr. Paul is not aware of these changes in strategies? His last use of the Revolution comment was just a few days ago. Are they getting their signals crossed? Apparently Dr. Paul doesn’t know the revolution is over. Personally, I want to hear it from him.
I don’t presume to know what you’re going through but I can guess. Don’t give up! Keep pressuring anyone you need to make your points. While we all want Dr. Paul to be our next President, we also want freedom. To discourage our revolution is to disparage our commitment to our goals and yes our goals include getting Ron Paul into the White House.
I do agree with Jack as far as talking to new people about Ron Paul. It’s one thing for someone to find out about this stuff on the internet, it’s another to be confronted by someone they don’t know. I don’t open with more information then they need. My whole objective is; “just look at Ron Paul before you decide your vote” and then give them printed information and answer questions as best I can. I wear my Ron Paul Revolution shirt everywhere I go (yes I have more than one). If someone wants me to take it off, let them come and get it!
I will not give up discussing these unofficial issues either, if someone wants to know more. I think the key is to not turn people off by being too aggressive in the beginning. Let them ask you about these things; many of them will sooner or later because many will want to know everything we know!
I wish you better times ahead,
Anti-Stupid
Right ON Anti-Stupid!
I LOVE YOU and I thank you for your response. We are in the same boat with the same questions and I sincerely appreciate how and what you said in your post.
I have not given up as I am about to make a trip to Reno to give campaign products I received in Frisco to a Meetup group there that the other Meetup Group in Reno will not share. Get that?
I'm not doubting out of thin air, and I don't doubt Dr. Paul, however, as you have seen, I do have doubts about his campaign, and I believe this started when he needed to expand, and by that expansion, those that were hired don't like us who started this grassroots fire.
Check out Great Basin Patriots for Ron Paul Meetup. They are awesome and I'm proud to be part of this Meetup and wish more Meetups were like them.
Now about Jack...what bothers me about Jack is along the same line as what bothers me about Gore and what he says about global warming: It's our fault. I don't buy that.
Being an Independent I'm a swinger or a spoiler, however one wants to see it, I'm not sold on a party, I'm sold on a candidate, and here in Mendo, selling the GOP is like selling Mc Donald's burgers to a vegan, but maybe I should say it's like selling McDonald's burger to an Atkins dieter...so you drop the bun, eh?
And Ron Paul could and should do this, but the campaign is so adament GOP, that it's making it impossible for the few of us here, where the peer pressure is so hard.
Now, I bought Ron Paul gear with peace signs because that's cool, and I let that gear do allot of talking for me, and the only problem I have with this gear is in some of the organizations I belong that are not for peace, the American Legion and my Grange. I wear my apron that has Ron Paul looking like Uncle Sam saying "I want YOU to help me make America American again" and I pass out liberty cards, but these folks are pro war and they know Ron Paul is not, so they give me a hard time about Ron Paul, as does my family that plays politics like football.
The rEVOLution sign is cool for the community as they know tourists like that kind of thing here, but it scares the crapola out of the religious right who think like Jack, we're talking about an armed revolution. I tell them about Google. So I find myself between a rock and a hard place promoting Ron Paul, but I also know the fact I have the guts to promote him, I ultimatelu get respect from people.
And I do things like send the Obama organizer here things I find about Hillary, I'm very political that way, and I go to Town Hall Meetings wearing my Ron Paul gear and talking about the issues from Paul's perspective to EDUCATE them. I blew SB480 (Killary care) out of the water a few weeks ago. I've gotten letters in all the papers but the major paper, which had an editor scream at me THIS IS HILLARY COUNTRY, we don't serve you...
whoa.
But still, I think, in all sincereity anti-stupid, if people like you, and my community like me, people listen, but only to a point. They want to see something, and for me, this is where the campaign is blowing it, and they don't want to step up to bat. If they were to come to NoCAL, they would make a difference here. And that is what it is going to take. So unless they take that step, I've done all I can do here. The Libertarians are taking in the cannabis mioney that could have been Ron Pauls, and the peace groups are looking at the Green Party and Unity08, which I became a delegate in HOPES that Ron paul would go there once he finds out the Decline to State Party voters are serious in CA, And they are.
Ron Paul is bigger than the GOP, and he has to go beyond the GOP to WIN, whicjh is what we all want.
Again anti-stupid, THANK YOU for your comment. I LOVE YOU for that!
You don't make sense?!
I'm not even talking about fighting a revolution. I'm just trying to get Ron Paul nominated for President. The only thing I'm losing are other potential voters because of the "wackos" who keep associating Ron Paul for their own intentions.
Why can't you just be understanding that most people are skeptical? You can turn away and complain or you can help do something about it. I'm just asking you to please do it more effectively.
I'm not really sure what you're talking about?!
Jack
http://ronpaul.meetup.com...
The rEVOLution became a campaign
The reason LOVE was emphasized in rEVOLution was because it was never meant to be an armed revolution. It is an intellectual rEVOLution. I came into it by Google: documentary, and I said, "WOW...what is this?" There are about a dozen 9-11 conspiracy films alone, dozens of Aaron Russo, Alex Jones, one conspiracy theory after the next on Google video (YouTube). It was indeed revolutionary, as many like me were "blown" away by what we were seeing. "Is this legal? How can they be playing this?" I asked myself these questions with every video.
And I came to understand, most people are not seeing this...Ron Paul was all over the place in these conspiracy videos, so he naturally became an interest, never a hero, Ron Paul was saying "Keep the internet free!" That was cool. It gave us hope. But we're losing hope Jack because of Ron Paul supporters like you and the campaign, which was NEVER a rEVOLution. (more like an illusion of hope).
The truthers are leaving the Ron Paul campaign Jack. Good luck on getting MSM on your side. You think you can do that without us, allrighty then. More power to you. I am what I am, and all you and the Ron Paul campaign are saying is, you don't understand me, and you resent me being in the campaign, but send more money more money more money.
I see little reason to continue supporting Ron Paul if he's representing people like you telling people like me to shut up. What's the difference between you, Hillary and MSM telling me to shut up?
The revolution became a campaign. I loved the revolution, I hate this campaign. It's all yours. I'm taking my revolution banner down, but I'm not putting a corporate sign up. Mendo is anti-corporate land. They liked the revolution banner which is why it's been up for nearly a month in a prime spot. They wouldn't like the corporate sign at all. We have one McDonald's serving 37.000 people and only tourists go there.
That was weird response.
I've never said to keep the truth from people?! I'm not sure what you're talking about...at all.
All I was asking was a more effective way of achieving your goal. You want to educate the people. All I'm saying is that we have got a better chance if we all just focus on his election. Any Ron Paul supporter will find out the truth from other supporters.
Whether you like it or not...the MSM is very beneficial for Ron Paul. It's very difficult but we are all still glad that he gets any kind of coverage.
I was just suggesting a more effective way of achieving a similar goal...to end the "conspiracies".
So, get your ass motivated...put that Ron Paul Revolution banner back up...and spread the word about Ron Paul!! Just be aware of your listeners' reaction...that's all...let Ron Paul introduce himself through videos and reasearch.
Jack
http://ronpaul.meetup.com...
Insulting supporters isn't helping Jack
Breaking into MSM is the hardest task of all here in what our main stream paper, "The Press Democrat", calls, "Hillary Country". Not one Ron Paul supporter from any Meetup group in any county the Press Democrat "serves", has been able to get a letter in, and furthermore, they refused to publish an ad, wouldn't take the money, wouldn't discuss it.
We here in NoCAL understand what we are up against with 80% Democrat and collectivists embedded in our institutions. Al Gore has no problem coming here and campiagning. The Democrats are heaping campaign materials for free. Go to a grocery store and pick up your Hillary bumper sticker for free. The markets have Democrat booths en force, and the Ron Paul Meetups have asked the campaign for HELP because we need HELP. We were told, "Your job is to register GOP, become a delegate, END OF DISSCUSSION". We can't WIN the election with this attitude Jack, and you can blame me and the other Meetup organizers who have spent a hell of allot of money and time and, my gawd, I went to a peace rally, asked, "Do you know who Ron Paul is?" Was asked if he was GOP? and when I said yes, half the group litterally ran away from me as if I had the plague while the other half screamed bloody murder for the county to hear, THIS WHOLE MESS IS THE GOP's FAULT!. Before I could get another word in edgewise they were about to beat me with their peace signs. I stood my groud saying, Ron Paul is for peace, Ron Paul is for peace, and was left with one guy who wanted me to take a copy of 9-11 Mysteries, a DVD claiming 9-11 was an inside job. When I told the guy I didn't need the DVD because I've seen a dozen of the films, he told me, Ron Paul is a fake because he won't stand for the TRUTH, that 9-11 was an inside job."
This is what the few Meetups in NoCAL are up against. And while it's much much easier to say, "screw this Ron Paul BS" and join the collective, We have been standing for Ron Paul for months ALONE, with no support from the campaign, paying premiem prices for RP gear, and talking to each other.
This is why the Meetups pooled their money to have me go to Frisco to ask the campaign for HELP. We know our communities Jack, and we know what it would take to win these communities, much better than those who have never ever been here because they can't stand all the rainbow, peace signs and marijuana leafs everywhere. I have Republican tourists come into my place of work completely sick to their stomachs because they are in the heart of the liberal collective.
Ron Paul has repeatedly said that he wants to unite with independents and liberals. His campaign is not doing what Ron Paul says he wants. So here you have one of the most liberally influencial territories in the USA, where you have really good strong people that have stood on this front with their own money, asking for a little help, and being told: Your job is to register GOP...."
The Republicans I know here, most are WWII vets and they are FOR the WAR. There is no way in hell they are going to support Ron Paul. They tell me, Ron Paul is a wacko and I'm being misled. If I told them that the campaign said I'm ruining the campaign they would tell me THAT prooves Ron Paul is a wacko. This community does not see me as a wacko. My community respects me as being a person of honor. I don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal, am very generous, have never been arrested and get along with everyone who isn't a liar, cheat or theif.
So Jack, I suggest you reconsider and work to try to keep the support Ron Paul has because tennacity of supporters is perhaps more important than dumping the supporters you don't like in hopes of gaining new supporters who made their mind up who and why they are supporting.
I suggest to you jack, the reason you see hundreds of people in some Meetups is because 83% of the public thinks 9-11 is an inside job, and Ron Paul's campaign telling "Truthers" they are not welcome, is why only one or two members even bother with the Meetup they joined.
LISTEN...
How did you even get to the point that I don't like Ron Paul's supporters?? Why can't you just take a positive advice toward the goal of getting Ron Paul elected?
That is like a coach not telling his team what they're doing wrong... I am saying this because we can truly win if we would just do things more effectively.
The only thing I keep hearing in the media is the association of Ron Paul with "wackos"... I haven't read any mainstream media consider him as a "wacko" but they're doing just as well by associating "wacko" supporters. I know we all have good intentions...but saying the truth from the start is not an effective way of getting through a personal barrier to gain a supporter.
That's like me approaching the girl of my dreams and start telling her that I want to marry her because I would be so good for her so she should be with me. She would think I was "wacko". Even if my intentions were good...and that it was true that I wanted to marry her and that I would be good for her... I will never have the chance if she perceives me as a "wacko". Now imagine if you criticized me and said, "You might not want to approach girls that way." Then I reply, "Yeah, but I'm just telling her the truth and that's how I like to approach girls."
I'M NOT SAYING TO CHANGE YOUR BELIEFS...I'M JUST TRYING TO LET YOU BE MORE AWARE OF HOW WE CAN DO THINGS BETTER.
Jack
http://ronpaul.meetup.com...
Perhaps boastful, but supportable
As someone that has landed over $5million in contracts over the past 15 years, many of those being return clients - salesmanship is key. An honest, diligent, patient approach to a sale is key, as is a sound, defensible product that meets the client's goals. That said, know your audience when speaking about RP and approach accordingly. You can be aggressive with some, tepid with others, but there are common tactics to a good sale: listen to the "client", identify the concern, offer solutions that sets you apart from your competitors, explain the benefit, follow-up, show an example of success, make the sale! Many "quick buck" salespeople are flash-in-the-pans, have no return customers, and end up out of business in a few years. Thats exactly what RP's competitors are doing and thats exactly why the American people are amassing around RP. We're tired of the double speak, not delivering on their proposals, and absolutely no customer service. So...lets put them out of business!
Look at this example in a forum
No matter WHAT we say or do at this point, we are going to be labeled "wackos".
I started a thread in the Greenville, SC newspaper's forums regarding Ron Paul placing 2nd in a SC straw poll that happened just yesterday.
(my name there is 18watt_fan)
http://forums.greenvilleo...
Anyhow, after me and another person analyzed Dr. Paul's numbers at this straw poll, look what someone chimes-in with out of nowhere:
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"I am sure he became second in the polls because his mindless followers have posted signs on every utility pole in the upstate. I wish one of you idiots would get caught littering like this and get to do a month of public service. Learn the law and read ordinances."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
My point is, it matters not how we go about this campaign, Ron Paul and his supporters ARE going to be attacked for petty issues because his message of freedom is literally despised by those who LOVE the status-quo.
But... that's exactly the point.
That is exactly why we have to make sure and not allow the perception to grow. I know that this topic has gotten heated, and I hope it hasn't turned anyone off. However, we are the salesmen.
There are a lot of different people in my Meetup group, and everyone of us have specific reasons for supporting Dr. Paul. We found out very early that it was more effective to simply talk to people, find out what THEIR interests/concerns were, and use that as a basis of introducing them to the campaign.
I have friends that were HUGE Bush supporters. Guess who they're voting for in '08. I'll give you a hint. Its not one of the "top-tier." You know why? They watched the Iowa speech and remembered what it used to mean to be a Republican. That's it. I didn't say a word. If I would have mentioned the CFR or "Truth" movements, I would have been kicked out of that house and they never would have learned about RP.
So, remember who your audience is. Most people don't care enough to get THAT involved. How many people do you know that vote based on the last sign they saw before the booth? Why do you think the argument, "He looks Presidential." even exists? Not too many people care about politics.
Easy talking points work. Nobody likes taxes. Nobody wants to be told how to live their lives. And most important of all... They know they hate the government, but they can't explain why. All you have to do is articulate Dr. Paul's positions on the things THEY care about, and you'll get their vote.
Because if you don't, and they vote in Giuliani. What are you going to do then?
- kipload
idealogs.blogspot.com
I'd thank the guy...
...for free advice.
Unless you have too many ron paul supporters where we can easily sweep an election and want to turn some of them off just to give other candidates a chance.. I'd heed his advice.
What he basically told you was:
"as much as I may like the guy based on his policy, the fact that I would be associated (fairly or unfairly) with people who litter is enough of a deterrent for me. If this sort of thing stopped happening I may give him a serious look."
Course he didn't put it like that... but that's the message he was giving you. Heed it. Again... unless you really don't need his vote. Then reply back with a snide comment. (hint: we NEED his effing vote!!!!!)
I knew you'd say that....
Alright......another example.
Fred Thompson came to the gun show here in Lakeland, FL last weekend. Our meetup group brought our signs to this PUBLIC event, but were ATTACKED by the news editor for doing so.
Here's the classic video of this occasion:
http://link.brightcove.co...
We didn't mention "conspiracy". We just handed out Fred's gun voting record, Ron Paul's gun voting record and tri-folds for RP.
Here's what the local political editor had to say:
http://www.theledger.com/...
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"Campaign aides and supporters ignored or simply glared at a handful of supporters for Ron Paul, a former Libertarian Party candidate for president and former Republican congressman who now is running for the GOP nomination. They waved Paul signs and passed out leaflets implying Thompson wasn't as pro-gun as he claims to be.
"How rude you are," one well-dressed older woman said to a Paul supporter clad in a T-shirt and shorts."
----------------------------------------------------------
And here is a link to a whole blog he wrote about this event about how EVIL we were for exercising our 1st Amendment right:
"What Happened to "Never Speak Ill of Another Republican?''":
http://blogs.theledger.co...
So are you going to say we should have just stayed-put at home instead of making us look like "wackos"?
I would have...
I remember reading about that, and watching the videos.
Honestly, I would have, and have, walked in with plain clothes (no RP gear) and just handed out Fred's voting record with RP voting record stapled to the back of it. That's it. Most would have just thought it was informational material without putting up their defenses. Those interested in guns would have been intrigued.
You never know. maybe they would have actually read it and started to question Fred at his own rally. They might have asked him questions like... Why did you vote this way, and who is this Ron Paul guy that voted against you?
Wouldn't that have been more effective?
- kipload
http://idealogs.blogspot....
Can I get a copy of those fliers if you have them?
do you have them posted to a meetup group? if so, which one?
Here's the link..
All of the candidates' gun-voting records can be found here:
http://gunowners.org/pres...
I'll read through it later...
..I only had time to skim it now.
But remember: the second there's an ARGUMENT, you lost the SALE.
And no... it doesn't matter who started it. If you really really want to make the sale, avoid the argument at ALL COSTS... even if they are trying to start one with you.
Yes.... it's that simple.
Pretend you're in a bar trying to get someone to go home with you. Be charming, funny, witty... be ANYTHING but argumentative.
Arguing with a girl that: "I'm soo much better and nicer and smarter than your boyfriend. Admit it... what does he have that I don't have" doesn't get you laid.
(No subject)
Ron's in good company :-)
Let's look at the message of another "radical"
"You don't have to 'work' to enter Heaven, just 'believe'..."
"If you even LOOK at someone with lust, you've committed the act"
"Anyone who divorces for reasons other than infidelity and remarries commits adultery"
"Remove the PLANK from your own eye before the speck in your brother's"
...I think you get the idea.
I'm in sales and was always told that "People love to buy, but HATE to be sold." In other words, if you really want to "convert" people, then engage them, don't "sell/preach" to them. I don't consider myself a Christian anymore, but still adhere to the teachings of Jesus. Here was a guy with the ULTIMATE grass roots campaign (lol)! Over time he built up to 12 dedicated followers that changed the world, begging the statement of Margaret Mead "Never doubt that a group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
The key is to offer them something WORTH buying into. People are selfish, let's face it. Their question is "what's in it for me or my family?" So, market your message to that person's interest(s), not yours. As several have said, if they ask you about certain more controversial issues, then take the Apostle Paul's approach when he prefaced his statements with "This 'I' say, and not the Lord." Or in our case, this is what "I" personally believe, but not necessarily Ron Paul. Let Ron speak for himself, either in person or on the many, MANY videos now available online.
Remember how "you" were introduced to this campaign. Someone tapped into "your" interests. Go 'ye and do likewise...:-)
how is that "good" company?
We need Ron to win enough popularity to win an election in his lifetime.
Not have only 12 people understand him while the masses cheer for his death only to slowly but surely come around and realize he was right about 1,000 years too late. What good would that do us in '08?
Please be thoughtful
Let me preface my comment by saying I've been a self-described libertarian for most of my voting life (~10 years), and been very alone in that philosophy in most of my social circles. I have read through a lot of the comments on here and I'd like to say a few things.
Libertarian philosophy is predicated on the belief that people are intelligent; they can make reasonable decisions, learn from mistakes, and are capable of managing their own lives. Freedom is the most exalting state for an intelligent being, and we are all intelligent. By contrast, other philosophies degrade the human potential and claim that people need to be taken care of, that they are incapable of doing so if left to their own desires. Communism, socialism, dictatorships, they all have this underlying disrespect for man's greatness.
Unfortunatley, not all people who claim to be libertarian believe this. I've heard too many of them complain about how stupid most people are (but never them or their friends!). What they're telling the world is "I want to government to leave me alone, even if it damns those stupid people who can't fend for themselves." These people give libertarianism a bad name. Elitism is authoritarian, not libertarian.
So libertarians really need to ask themselves, "which kind of libertarian am I?" If you truly belive that the vast majority of people are intelligent and thoughful, treat them that way! People respond profoundly positively when they are treated with respect. Libertarianism is the only philosophy that truly believes they deserve that respect.
My point is this: if you're campaigning for Paul, treat everyone as intelligent and with much respect. Keep topics to their concerns, don't tell them what should be important to them. That means yammering about CFR or NAU or whatever is doing no good at all. If someone asks, tell them. But when you complain that people don't care or don't want to be involved, you should respect that. People are not looking for an education from a random person on the street. Tell them that Ron Paul is a good, honest man and would make a great president. Maybe that's all they're looking for in a candidate. At the very least you've laid a very positive seed that may or may not grow into an interest in learning about Ron Paul. But you cannot control what people are concerned about. It's all about respect.
It's a matter of balance, and depends on the situation
Look guys, I'm not just sitting here totally trashing what you are saying about being prudent when approaching people. It really depends on what the situation is and who you are dealing with.
What about discussions on forums?
Sometimes conversations get VERY in depth, and a tad heated, so there's no possible way to just stay neutral in these types of situations.
I would have to say it's a balance between your OWN opinions/facts, as well as Dr. Paul's videos and writings interspersed..
It's absolutely impossible NOT to talk about certain controversial subjects with people because it always ends up going down that path.
If someone thinks I'm a wacko for mentioning historically proven events, documents or quotes, then they are the ones with problems - not Ron Paul or I.
Yes, there are crafty ways to introduce certain subject-matter to certain people, but the truth can't just stop for fear of offending someone - whether it be from my own mouth/writings or Dr. Paul's.
And yes, Dr. Paul IS being labeled a wacko, even when it's just HIS literature, quotes and policies being taken in directly, without a wretched Ron Paul-supporter getting in the way.
Get used to it. It's going to get worse.
It doesn't matter
"It's absolutely impossible NOT to talk about certain controversial subjects with people because it always ends up going down that path."
That's exactly the point... They're going to find out the "truth" or information as a Ron Paul supporter anyway. So, why feel the need to "educate" people to the extent of scaring them away?
Even with historic facts, you can not convince them to vote for Ron Paul if you're already debating them before getting to know Ron Paul. You've already set up a defensive barrier for the potential supporter.
"If someone thinks I'm a wacko for mentioning historically proven events, documents or quotes, then they are the ones with problems - not Ron Paul or I."
It is this mentality that is hurting his campaign. It's okay for you to look wacko on your own...STOP ASSOCIATING RON PAUL. Their perception of you being wacko will become OUR PROBLEM because you just lost us another potential voter!
After viewing all the videos, Ron Paul does not look wacko...it's the media that is trying to do that...and it is YOU that is enhancing this negative perception toward Ron Paul.
When we say it...we sound crazy...because who are we? When Ron Paul says it...he sounds powerful...because of his position and experience. HE IS A PART OF THE GOVERNMENT.
Jack
http://ronpaul.meetup.com...
Even Scientologists....
.....are smart enough not to open with the part about how they believe in aliens.
They open with something that's only gonna get me to read the pamphlet and maybe stop by their "reading room"... nothing too too drastically different than what I already "know".
Yes, I personally think there should be NO IRS and the 16th was illegitimate, but that's not the point.
To an average soccer mom, if I open with that line, she'll write me off as crazy and ignore me. If I open with some humble line about working families having a right to allocate more than 60% of their earned income, she might be intrigued.
And no, I'm not saying I disagree with Paul's message about eliminating the IRS at all... I'm just saying that I'll mention that part AFTER the soccer mom is intrigued.. takes the pamphlet... goes home.. maybe goggles the guy... gets interested... joins my meetup group... and stops by... says hi to me... and asks me to elaborate on some of the "sticking points" in her conversion to republicanism/libertarianism.
THANK YOU!
Thank you... I don't know why some of these supporters think that we're trying to tell them to shut up about it. We're just letting you know that it's a more EFFECTIVE way of getting the message out to them.
Jack
http://ronpaul.meetup.com...
A wise man once told me...
..that if you're trying to sell someone something that isn't what he's used to, you can either win the argument or you can win the sale. But not both.
I have no idea how most people "came around" to republican/libertarianism/small govt ideas.
But just speaking for myself, it most certainly WAS NOT because some dude shoved a "worlds smallest political quiz" in my face and had fast answers and Ayn Rand quotes as a response to everything I said.
Yes, I did come around... but it was the result of a small seed planted in my head, combined with a lot of personal thought, a little reading, some online research... and yes, I am now a fan of Rand, Hayeck, Rothbard... I check Rockwell's blog daily, etc. But this was something I had to discover on my own. To help me, the best thing others have done was plant the seed... and maybe answer some questions I had along the way. Not browbeat me into submission.
Ok, so....
Ok,
So at what point do we warn the masses about the North American Union, etc?
Do we put those issues on hold for two years?
well....
...is it really necessary to have this person vote for Ron Paul for our reasons (CFR, IRS, etc)?
What if the person likes letter R. So much so that his entire voting decision would be decided by it. Simply explain that Ron Paul's name begins with R. That was easy.
Basically don't kill the sale because of the desire for people to like Ron Paul because of OUR reasons. Our reasons for liking the guy are great... but our main goal is to get the vote.
Yes... it is absolutely more important to get the person to vote for Ron based on the letter R than to risk him not voting for Ron based on the CFR.
But for that 400-lb dude you referenced earlier... his voting decision is NEVER going to be based on the CFR. Ever. I guarantee it. In fact, he'll probably live his whole life never knowing what CFR stands for.
So isn't it better to have him voting for Ron Paul anyway? Based on whatever criterion he uses? Maybe he likes food: "Ron Paul would not only give you more of your own money to buy food, but he's against legislation telling you what to eat and how much trans fat to eat."
Done. End of sale.
about the same time
you explain to them 9-11 was an inside job.
I lead them to THIS audio of Dr. Paul
Ron Paul DOES support a new investigation into 9/11.
Here he is back in June on the Pat Gorman Show (FMNN)
http://media.putfile.com/...