Foolish, thuggish acts got us nowhere.
Posted January 9th, 2008 by McClarinJ
output
The sign mob hectoring of opponents has got to stop. There are lots of Americans who, even though they watch and listen to Sean Hannity (I listen to this koolaid-sipping neocon just to get his take on things so I know where *I* stand in contrast), might have voted for Ron Paul had his rowdy supporters not ganged up on Hannity and pelted him with a snowball. What, you think he wasn't going to play that incident up big on his radio and TV show in the crucial hours before the vote? Why not just give Dr. Paul a shove down the mine shaft.
The same goes for those who acted rudely and dropped the conspiracy bomb on Bill Clinton. Think how this looks to us New Hampshireites who pride ourselves on our state's retail-politics role in the election process. You guys are damaging our state's reputation of being a place where political hopefuls of all stripes can come and state their case without being hasseled on the sidewalks and in the diners by rowdy thugs. When you mess with our first-in-the-nation primary we are apt to retaliate at the ballot box.
The sign mob(s) that pestered Rudy Giuliani in Super Tuesday states also turned off voters accustomed to extending southern hospitality. Use a little imagination and try to see your actions from others' perspectives.
Sign wavers need to be clean, respectful and cheery. If that's not you, please consider joining one of Dr. Paul's opponents' campaigns where you can might actually do Dr. Paul some good.
Meetup groups and any other R3volution efforts should consider placing a couple responsible adults in charge of sign wave groups to cut down on these "wilding" incidents in the future. Otherwise they will continue to hurt our battle for the minds and hearts of the people.
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Clean up a road in Ron Pauls name, group of supporters go help with the homeless shelters one night and serve dinner,
volunteer in your community, pay for someones toll behind you in the name of ROn paul... or even someones gas... ??? if its warm do a free car wash and hand out ROn Paul slim jims..woot woot..
I am of two minds
.
While I dislike some of the shenanigans that some have done in over-enthusiastic support of Ron Paul, I am wary about abridging anyone's freedom to heckle or annoy. I agree it does not help the campaign one bit, and I wish it would stop.
But the bigger issue is freedom of expression: the annoying people have every right afforded under the First Amendment. Dr. Paul has managed to distance himself from White Supremacists, from the 911 Truth folks, from attributed racial stuff, from all sorts of things. He told no one to throw snowballs at Hannity, so he's in the clear. Yes, there might be some "guilt by association" even though it's a stretch, and something the medial loves to play up.
But the democratic process suggests that everybody is welcome to express their views and do what they like under the law. It is too easy to condemn the actions of others. I don't condemn what they did, but I do wish they would think twice before making asses of themselves and giving more fodder to the already-biased media.
.
He
He is not in the clear when people doing such acts have a Ron Paul sign in his hand..Like it or not that reflects on our candidate..While hannity may have deserved what he got there was a young lady with him who I assume was extremely frightened..To the best of my knowledge this lady deserved none of this..And the fact that this occurred after dark made it look like a lynching..Think before you act..
This is exactly why campaigns must be local.
"The sign mob(s) that pestered Rudy Giuliani in Super Tuesday states also turned off voters accustomed to extending southern hospitality."
Personally, I'd be annoyed if anyone came to my door or buzzed my phone.
You ppl need "CODEX of grass roots"
Some rules of behavior like:
1. No violence
2. Withstand all *very* possible provocations
etc etc
Let's think like Ron Paul
Let's think like Ron Paul for a moment. I will put it into perspective that may help some people understand. WHAT IF THAT WAS DICK CHENEY INSTEAD OF HANNITY? You bet I would yell at the top of my lungs, go $#*@ yourself! You better believe it!
If yer gonna be an angry mob
If yer gonna be an angry mob how bout just use yer own name. Does that particular incident have any verifiable meetup origination contactable through the site ? I dont know how all the groups are but my local group is organized respectful and inspiring. We would first like to avoid the less pleasant kind of revolution, That being said if there really is that angry of a crowd maybe it would be in everyones best interest to remain FAIR and Respectful. If they succeed in fraud and manipulation that obviously not everyone is buying. Theres going to be alot of angry people. Im sure news people like to go out in public occasionally. And we would like a fair election. If anyone knows those people or anyone whose suggesting doing something similar please use common sense and consider yourselves representatives of the Dr.
I respectfully disagree with
I respectfully disagree with you. Hannity provoked that group it wasn't the other way around. If you don't think Hannity didn't planned that, then you are very naive.
If it was a group of ordinary Americans standing there out and just as outraged at the establishment and Faux News, even if they never heard of Ron Paul, I bet they would have acted the exact same. Most people agree with the fact that Hannity is a scumbag and deserves this treatment everywhere he goes.
Only you....
Only you can be responsible for how you behave or react. It doesn't really matter what Sean Hannity did to provoke this group. I understand your frustration/disappointment/anger at the media disrepect shown to our candidate and his supporters, however the behavior that follows just gave the media further reason to paint all Ron Paul supporters as aggressive, angry, ill mannered boors.
I am really not trying to reign in anyone's individual freedom, but rather caution you to carefully consider the consequences of your actions. I was watching Frank Luntz this weekend, and he gave a message to Ron Paul supporters that we are tarnishing our candidate and driving potential voters away. Please don't make me agree with Frank Luntz.
For Liberty!
Becky Blauvelt
Formerly known as Hestia
You miss the point
Of course Hannity provoked them. Possibly deliberately. And like a bunch of dumb animals they did exactly what he wanted them to do! No wonder some reports say that he was smiling as he went into the building. He'd gotten his 30 second "HERE'S PROOF that Ron Paul supporters are barbarians!" video clip. Folks: let's wise up and quit handing ammunition to our enemies.
I agree.
I knew that those things would hurt us.
When will these political noobs (and let's not beat around the bush, most of them really are new at this political thing) realize that this is POLITICS and not high school or college.
Our job as the grassroots campaigners is to get our man elected. These people need to realize that perception is reality in the mind of the voter. If a New Hampshire voter was undecided on his way to the election booth, he or she could very well have decided the were not going to become associated with a rowdy and seemingly anarchist crowd. You and I know that the crowd was relatively peaceful and would not have become incited to violence, but the average voter on the outside looking in does not. This is how they perceive things, and you people that condone this childish crap need to wake up to that fact or realize that we will lose the election that way!
Then you same people like to cite "blowback" over and over again. Well, I agree, but the blowback will be on US, not THEM if this continues! Hannity did not suffer by the screaming cussing mob following him, WE did! Hannity will be co-hosting his TV show and broadcasting on the radio no matter who wins in November, so let's be civil here or else suffer the consequences.
Hannity didn't suffer
Hannity didn't suffer because he has no conscience. That doesn't mean we should let him off the hook.
forget
Hannity and think about the female he was with, what did she do to Ron Paul ??
Then don't let him off the
Then don't let him off the hook. But angry mobs make ALL of us look bad. Moderate voters do not like angry mobs and those who are undecided will not associate with angry mobs.
The way you beat them is with FACTUAL DEBATE, not yelling and cussing. It's that simple. Again, this is not high school, this is politics.
Hannity is a scumbag. He is
Hannity is a scumbag. He is free to be a scumbag and we are free to be angry and express our opinions of him. This is supposedly a free country, at least for now. If you're not outrage at what people like Hannity are doing to America, with all due respect, you are a fool. You can freely choose to express your outrage quietly, in secret, or you can choose to scream at the top of your lungs.
Sure express your rage...
in private or in public at the top of your lungs. One way may motivate you to HELP Ron Paul, the second way may well HURT him. Which do you want? Your choice--but those of us to are trying to get Dr. Paul elected are going to be might ticked off at you if you choose the second since you will be a traitor to his cause--giving aid and comfort to his enemies.
I read this post and????
Can somebody give me all of the facts before I comment...I read all of the posts, and the author of this threads post but I still don't understand what happened? They threw snowballs at Hannity?? Talk to me..th un-informed!
I thought it was hilarious!
Please lighten up! It was the funniest thing I’ve seen in a long time.
Did you know that the American Revolutionaries tarred and feathered our enemies! Please,... a snowball and yelling isn’t anything! All you cry babies should go back to sleep. Those Ron Paul College kids had just been told that Ron Paul was being excluded from the Fox debates. Then they see that jerk Hannity walking around, with that famous stupid little smug look on his face, what the heck did you think would happen?
Now get over it, lighten up, and get back to work everyone. We have a country and a Republic to win back. Be sure and become a Precinct Leader for Ron Paul!
God Bless Ron Paul!
God Save the Republic!
Did you know the American Revolutionaries...
Did you know the American Revolutionaries who started a snowball fight against the British soldiers died in the Boston Massacre?
Actions have consequences....think carefully before you act.
For Liberty!
Becky Blauvelt
formerly known as Hestia
I rest my case. Ron Paul
I rest my case.
Ron Paul Ya'll
Wrong for several reasons.
The time and place was wrong..Second he had some woman with him who we scared the hell out of and didn't do anything to Dr Paul or his supporters
I totally agree. It seems
I totally agree. It seems there are some very immature people in this movement. Some of them you can't tell anything. They know it all. They profess to support Dr. Paul and love Dr. Paul, but when doing these things, they reflect very badly on him.
This kind of behavior has been very damaging. So has the use of four letter words and such all over Ron Paul forums. This also reflects badly on Dr. Paul. When someone is curious, visits a forum, and sees the terrible language some use, they back right out.
I'm thankful not all Paul supporters act like this.
Ron Paul Ya'll
Please
Listen to this poster and do not mess up at the Fox debate
The Bill Clinton story is a fraud
The Clinton story on MSNBC was plagerized from an article written in the spoof. It never happened.
I noticed this yesterday. Below is the email exchange between the writer and myself:
From: Tim Sharpe [mailto:myhat2u@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 7:46 AM
To: Wendy Terry
Subject: Re: Bill Clinton to Ron Paul supporters: "You're nuts"
Thanks. I'm thinking of suing them. I may settle out of court if they agree to start reporting on Ron Paul.
Wendy Terry wrote:
Hillarious article!
FYI: It looks like someone at NBC is plagerizing you. You might want to check it out:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill to Paul supporters: 'You’re nuts'
Posted: Monday, January 07, 2008 4:13 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: 2008, Clinton, Paul
From NBC/NJ’s Mike Memoli
KEENE, NH -- Several Ron Paul supporters shadowed a much larger Clinton entourage as Bill Clinton greeted supporters downtown. The former president later called them "nuts."
During his third stop of the day, the former president posed for pictures and shook hands as he strolled down Main Street on this unseasonably warm Primary Eve day. Across the street, a few Paul supporters shouted his name.
Eventually, Clinton stopped outside a bakery, offered some remarks, and took questions. As he was answering one on Iraq, one of the Paul backers interrupted and shouted that the Sept. 11 attacks were an inside job, and that the U.S. didn’t need to be in Iraq and Afghanistan.
When he dropped an F-bomb, the crowd booed. Clinton, who had tried to talk over the man, gave up.
"You wanna know what I think?” Clinton said. “You guys who think 9/11 was an inside job are crazy as hell. My wife was the senator from New York when that happened. I was down at Ground Zero. I saw the victims' families. You're nuts."
http://firstread.msnbc.ms...
"...it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security..."
When Spoofs are Picked Up
....by major networks as factual news, PFK's can get on talk shows tell lies and cause negative groundswells, and great organizations against voter fraud check DP individual posts for ammo....well, says a lot about our society. No wonder we are in such a mess.
We do not even need "plants" to divert us....we do it ourselves. Meanwhile we have a debate tonight, desperately need precinct leaders and grassroot organization, need campagn $$ to be competitive on Super Tuesday, etc....and the economy has crashed and the Iran situation heats up after a fabricated story complete with mechanical sounding voices sounding like school yard bullies.
99.9% of Paul supporters are very nice
You are posting as if there are Ron Paul supporters all over the country doing embarrassing things, I see no sign of this.
There have been two well publicized incidents that were indeed embarrassing, but there is no trend toward aggressive and foolish behavior.
Posting these types of comments may only add to the perception that Ron Paul supporters are a bunch of radical losers who need to be constantly admonished.
Better off focusing on the positive thing Paul supporters can do than obsessing over the mistakes of a very few.
Please take this in the positive spirit it is meant to be.
These people may be agent provocateurs...
These people may be agent provocateurs who are hired to do this. It is a very common tactic of the powerful enemies we are fighting. You have to know the r3volution has been infiltrated to some degree. Just something to keep in mind.
This is America
I believe that in America we have the right to talk and sometimes yell. Fox news must fear us in order to respect us. That damn simple
Unfortunately
The 01% are showing up at nationally televised events and it reflects on all of us
Once you go violent SR 1959 will kick in and you'll be in Gitmo
This is a revolution of the mind
just chill
-----------------DO YOU REALLY WANT RON TO WIN------------------
Ron needs more than just money. Send this strategy to mail@ronpaul2008.com and also to press@ronpaul2008.com if these ideas make sense to you
www.dailypaul.com/node/14...
Give it up
This is two three day old news, give it a rest.
Snowballs now or bloody
Snowballs now or bloody revolt in the streets later, which would you prefer?
Neither.
I prefer Ron Paul to win. Snowballs especially are not condusive to that.
Hopefully
Supporters will behave at the Fox debate
While I would personally
While I would personally like to have been there, the better thing to do to an O'brian or a Hannity in the future would be for all Ron Paul supporters to get on their knees and worship them as if they are "god like".
Some Of What You Say Is Correct -- But
Sure, some of you what you bring up -- I too agree with. Violence isn't right // that said -- maybe we (or somebody) should go tell GWB that -- writing that got me to thinking about Iraq and Afghanistan and soon to be Iran, etc., etc. Certainly a lot of violence being dished out there.
But then again, we shouldn't turn away in fear either. And we shouldn't excuse the truly bad that would have us as followers in their image and not leaders of truth and justice. Promise not to let this go astray, me saying that.
I realize that some people will set the stage for reaction, they do this by their words, their body language, their very presence // doesn't make it right if/when we throw the first punch in anger back. But then again we shouldn't turn away in fear either // said that already didn't I. Sorry.
Some people are real jerks (jerks first class, and proud of it) those are the kind of people that oftentimes will provoke a situation and do so knowing it will make them look clean as the driven snow while the one provoked comes across as the bad guy. I suppose we do have to watch what we say and how we act (react) // that's what keeps us a civilized society -- but at the same time we shouldn't turn away in fear either // slipped out saying that again.
Some things really and truly aren't that big a deal either, others just like to make us think it is. The MSM seems skilled at doing this very well.
Our voice needs to be heard, the MSM (the folks just working there and doing their job -- sure) // we rely on them for fairness in giving our voice equal (balanced) air time -- but it doesn't work out that way. Might be why some feel the need to SHOUT from the background -- they've come to understand the playing field isn't fair.
My rambling thoughts on the subject.
Vote RON PAUL 2008
Please
"You guys are damaging our state's reputation of being a place where political hopefuls of all stripes can come and state their case without being hasseled on the sidewalks and in the diners by rowdy thugs. When you mess with our first-in-the-nation primary we are apt to retaliate at the ballot box." --
You guys did a pretty good job of this yourselves. Retaliate at ballot box or at counting of ballots boxes?
The Cost
of air time on TV 100,000
The cost to win a Presidential election 100,000,000
Sean Hannity being chased by an angry mob
PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who knows it may have gotten Ron Paul in tonights debate
Even Ron Paul said it looks like they were having fun when interviewed by Medusa Mitchell. This is politics people . Some throw mud we throw snowballs.
NO
Not when they are carrying Ron Paul signs..The price was lost votes and delegates
Nope
Ask Al Gore, and John Kerry what taking the High road did for this country, our Electoral process, and our freedoms.
A Nationally unknown Congressman who is the anthema of the Party establishment getting the 4th most votes so far, in a very young Primary, was an unbelievable feat before now.
What would have happened if those angry villagers never threw the Tea in the harbor?
You'd be eating crumpet, and having a spot of tea.
And be potentially
in the EU- PU
Al Gore & John Kerry lost because
Al Gore & John Kerry lost in part because they managed to be even less charismatic than Dubya to ordinary people who respond to how something is said rather than "what" is being said. Except for Huckabee, all of the Republicans, especially Ron, are doing that now.
There were a lot of other reasons, too, but there's no point in a flame war over them. After all, Gore actually won the overall popular vote, despite the efforts of Team-Jeb-Bush.
Refer to all the MSM drool over the impassioned but nearly content-free Obama victory speech to see how this works.
Ask yourself
How many delegates do we have..One less than Hunter and he's barely visable....If we do as poorly in Michigan as projected the forum to get out our message shrinks..And with each poor showing in the remaining primaries, our voice becomes even softer
Vote fraud will always be around
We must be vigilant. This is how the establishment will try to kill the campaign. We've got to double, no triple, our efforts. How about "nothing is off the table now", eh? I can play politics too.
ROFL
We seem to have dueling threads going here....I say Zero delegates makes this the sane one
anger is not courage
The "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore" crowd does not represent me. I'm a few years past adolescent puberty.
Consider me part of the "I'm not affraid of boogeymen, so don't strip my countrymen of their rights on my behalf" crowd. I'm not mad, I'm just not affraid....
...and I don't want to be feared.
If you're not angry, that's just sad
Your freedoms are being taken and those in power are conspiring against you. I cannot believe this willful ignorace. Anger is the only reasonable reaction to what is happening to the American people.
Follow Dr. Paul's Example
The point that must be lost is that we are each ambassadors for the movement and for Dr. Paul. Ask yourself always: "Would Dr. Paul behave as you behave? Would he condone such treatment of Sean Hannity?" I think not, even though Dr. Paul dislikes all that Hannity represents, as do I.
Hannity smiles at the end
Of every Ron Paul Interview. He also has friends throughout all of talk radio--including potential Ron Paul allies like the Neal Boortz crowd.
I saw the the "Book Signing" confrontation and Hannity smiled and literally went "tongue and cheek" once the Ron Paul card was passed. The face changed when the infowars stuff was passed right afterwords. When a person carries a Ron Paul sign, they are not just representing Paul. They are representing ME. I've got a sign just like it in my yard. And that's the bug that opposition teams are using to split the RON PAUL movement. Look, I understand there is overlap, but these are two separate and distinct movements.
For starters, one is looking to identify who's to blame. The other is looking for solutions and who's to have responsibilty for implementing them. Forget if the country club is secret or in the open. We DON'T NEED to start talking Secret Societies to make an average person feel mad or helpess. They feel defeated enough by their mortgage broker and "suggested" ritalin prescription by their kid's school administrator
And a person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still.
SOLUTION SELLS. If someone is looking to blame, please go for a different sign than Ron Paul's when doing it. If throwing Snowballs or getting arrested...ask the other sign's permission first.