Why Dr. Paul can not do a recount?
Posted January 10th, 2008 by 2bright
output
I thought about this for quite some time, and to tell you the truth, I wanted a recount when I first started hearing about the voter fraud!
But realize this, If Dr. Paul does a recount, his message is dead in the water!
Oh they will want to talk to him then, everyone will want to talk to him, about the recount and nothing else. His message becomes secondary and he knows this!
Please give this man the assumption that he has as much sense as you or me. He has seen how these things work.
Allow him to stay on point and not to get distracted! Don't bring up the word recount anymore. It is a dead issue and now that I have thought about it for a day, I see what he already knew.
It's like it just hit me in the head. Dr. Paul we understand you are having a recount in NH, how is that going. Dr. Paul then proceeds to try to talk about the issues and they just steer him back to the recount!
He then is off message. Dr. Paul realize that millions do not know what he stands for and he will not be distracted from his message.
That comes from wisdom and we need to start either trusting this man or go vote for a lunatic like McCain!
Come on people, in the words of that soldier, let's get real!
Believe that this man is well aware of what is at stake and realize he has been through the most intense fight of his life and he knows why they are doing this but he also knows that he is going to get his message out about Freedom!
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Actually
What really needs to happen and should have from the beginning so we would not be talking about this now, is a 100% Exit Poll done for the sake of every candidate by a coalition of third Parties or just one of the other Parties. The Democrats and Republicans run our polls, so to audit them The Constitution Party needs to do a simple, free, easy 100% Exit Poll now in all future states not connected in any way with a candidate.
His message should come first.
It would be nice if a recount was possible but if it only improves his position from 5th to 4th why bother. This would be a distraction from his message and he might alienate voters who might otherwise vote for him. It is still early.
We each need to rally those close to us to the message of Dr. Paul.
"This would be a
"This would be a distraction"
Possible voter fraud a distraction? Logically, how do you think we even stand a chance with 0 momentum coming out of NH and the real possibility of voter fraud?
I
Get Some Other Candidate to Ask for Recount
What if another candidate would cooperate? We can help the Granny's raise the money for recount and then give it to another candidate who can request the recount. What about Kucinich? He is a friend of Dr Paul's.....or Bill Richardson who is dropping out of race anyway...maybe he is already out. Don't think Obama is going to do anything about a recount and probably has reasons for NOT wanting to do it.
Reasons for doing a recount could be just to "verify" the accurateness of the Diebold machines since everyone knows they are highly suspect.
Time is not on our side....think the recount demand has to be made by Friday and doubt we have any "contacts" in any other campaign anyway. But it could have been a way to get the recount without Dr Paul's name being attached to it.
well said
This is exactly what we should be doing. Ron Paul is a conduit for our Movement. He is not "THE" movement. Our goal is to have him lead us to the degree that we establish a critical mass. He is a smart man and we trust him implicitly to do the right thing. If he believe that a recount is not in our best interests then it is not and lets get to work about Super Tuesday.
I would love to see a
I would love to see a RECOUNT, but one of the Individuals running in the election MUST be willing to ask and pay for it.. Read the Reg:
New Hampshire Election Statutes
State or Presidential Primary Recounts
660:7 Application. Any person for whom a vote was cast for any nomination of any party at a state or presidential primary may apply for a recount. The application shall be made in writing to the secretary of state and shall be submitted no later than the Friday after the primary for a recount of all ballots cast for such nomination. Each candidate requesting a recount shall pay the secretary of state fees as provided in RSA 660:2.
660:8 Notice of Conduct. Notice shall be given and the recount shall be conducted as provided for in RSA 660:4 and 660:5.
660:9 Declaration of Result, State Primary. If the recount after a state primary election shall show that some candidate other than the one declared nominated upon the original canvass of votes has the greatest number of votes cast for the nomination, such candidate shall be declared nominated and shall be placed upon the official ballot at the following election unless appeal is taken to the ballot law commission in accordance with RSA 665:6, I, I. If the person who applied for the recount was thereby shown to be the one chosen as the candidate of the party, the person shall also have any fee paid returned.
660:9-a Declaration of Result, Presidential Primary. If the recount after a presidential primary election shall show that the applying candidate qualified under RSA 659:93 for at least one more delegate than the original count indicated or that such candidate did qualify for federal election funding, such candidate shall receive such funding or shall be apportioned delegates to the national party convention in accordance with RSA 659:93 unless appeal is taken to the ballot law commission in accordance with RSA 665:6, I. If the person who applied for the recount was thereby shown to be entitled to federal funding or at least one more delegate under RSA 659:93, the person shall also have any fee paid returned.
The Granny's, you or I cannot submit. So, WHO is going to SUBMIT the request? Hunter? Kucinich?
Tim
Active/Reserves/Retired
Join the
Military for Ron Paul meet-up Group
http://ronpaul.meetup.com...
look at the delegates up for grabs
http://politics.nytimes.c...
New Hampshire was only 12. We have less than a month until Mega-monster Tuesday that has 1,081. As much as I hate to walk away, we have to stay focussed on the delegates. South Carolina has 24 and Florida 57. Think about what really matters here.
Joe Average American must hear what Ron Paul stands for not how he maybe lost 31 votes in a State that doesn't really matter.
"Joe Average American must
"Joe Average American must hear what Ron Paul stands for"
Truth.. honesty.. integrity. Exactly! This is why is recount is so important.
No Delegates from NH?
I heard last night that because NH moved up their primary the National GOP penalized them by taking all their delegates. This means McCain won nothing and Paul lost nothing. Whats the point of a recount. Can anyone verify this?
N. H is supposed to be the
N. H. is supposed to be the first in the Nation period. I dont think this is true. Wyoming was penalized and lost 1/2.
The reason for a recount would be to check for anomolies between actual votes cast and the potential corruption of the Dibold systems. This is why I want a recount, but a candidate must submit the request.
Tim
Active/Reserves/Retired
Join the
Military for Ron Paul meet-up Group
http://ronpaul.meetup.com...
Let's face it
There are no fair elections anymore, in this country and most places in the world. In 2000, when it became completely transparent that the outcomes of elections are predetermined, I expected some kind of armed uprising or mass demonstration against the entire electoral process. I didn't participate in that election, but I assumed those who take voting seriously would demand accountability regardless if their candidate benefited or not. I never expected that Ron Paul would have any chance of actually winning this election. Not because people wouldn't vote for him, but because those votes wouldn't be counted. To those of you who thought he could win, and are anguishing now, I feel sorry for you and wonder where you have been the past 8 years. Our job is not, in reality, to get Ron Paul elected. Because as George Stephanopoulis said, that ain't gonna happen. Our job is to get a critical mass of people interested in the message, so that the lengths that are needed to suppress the movement are so undeniable, that nobody will be able to doubt the systematic fraud that is taking place. So far, we are succeeding. We are really kicking ass and making it exceedingly difficult for the establishment to maintain its cover. But the fact of what went down in NH, especially to Obama, just shows that the empire has really upped the ante. Push for recount? I say yes, although we've already been tarred as kooks and conspiracy nuts. It would be helpful if Obama's supporters got a little skeptical, but we all know they are sheep and if they were looking deeply they'd be support Paul in the first place.
And your proof is where?
"In 2000, when it became completely transparent that the outcomes of elections are predetermined....we've already been tarred as kooks and conspiracy nuts."
Thamk you for making your point!
Here's your proof, jack@ss
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
get a clue.
Wow nice language
You kiss your mom with that mouth?
Sorry, your no lawyer (Yes I am), that is not proof.
Every recount in 2000 never gave Gore the victory. None.
You conspiracy folks aare the dark side of the RP campaign and frankly I wish you could find another candidate that agrees with all your copnspiracies.
Beside the point
Whether the outcome would have changed or not is beside the point. The fact is that there WAS PROVEN FRAUD.
Diebold Voting Machines Are Cans Of Worms W/O Lids
Look and learn:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Vote RON PAUL 2008
Let's face it
double post my bad
Sorry...
I donated hard earned money to this campaign. That money was spent to get the word out to as many people as possible so that they would vote for Dr. Paul. Now we clearly have seen fraud transpire and we are going to walk away from it like nothing ever happened?
Proof:
http://ronrox.com/paulsta...
Now McCain is getting a ton of attention from MSM for his performance in NH, while a 3rd place finish from Dr. Paul would have launched this campaign into overdrive.
If an investigation doesn't happen right now, this will happen over and over again from here on out. It's time to put the foot down and lay down the law. Fraud needs to be exposed for what it is. If it is not, then all of my hard work and money is simply an act of futility in a rigged system.
If Dr. Paul doesn't step up to the plate for me now, I don't think can continue to step up to the plate for him.
NO!
We are faced with 48 more cases of potential fraud.
We will take a series of steps to prevent future fraud and A RECOUNT IS ONE OF THEM.
This is a mountain to climb and we must do EVERYTHING to assure we get the delegates we need to succeed.
Appearances? WE ARE TELLING THEM TO GO RIGHT AHEAD AND SCREW US!!!
This has to do with sticking up for yourself and sends a far more coherent and and defensible message than "Oh well....I guess it is OK...I don't want to look like a whiner."
Bull sh%$. WE WANT TO WIN.
God helps those who help themselves.
The potential cheats in voting processes throughout the United States must be warned that they might be caught and criminally charged.
What the heck do you think the fraud laws or for anyway?
Is a recount that off-message? Here's how I would spin it:
1. Dr. Paul didn't begin the process, individuals in the grassroots did.
2. They raised money for a recount on their own, no encouragement from the campaign.
3. There appear to be several irregularities. The campaign doesn't know how serious it is, or if it would have made any difference in the outcome.
4. But the sentiment of the individuals who want the recount and raised money for a recount is the same one that underlies much of the dissatisfaction that you read about in the polls: distrust of government.
5. People feel they are being manipulated and in some sense they are:
Misinformation about why we invaded Iraq--the WMD
Misinformation about the legality of the war without Congressional approval
Misinformation about the precarious nature of the economy
Misinformation about why the dollar is loving value
Misinformation about the viability of social security
Misinformation about the necessity of the Patriot Act and loss of rights
Misinformation about the security of the computer counting of votes
This isn't new. It's been brewing for at least eight years in the national consciousness. Let's investigate. What's the excuse they give us for snooping on us: If you don't have anything to hide, you shouldn't worry.
You all are making very compelling arguments!
Ron Paul for President!!!
You want my vote on a recount? All you have to do is convince Dr. Paul to do it and I am in!
God bless every person who posted a comment on this thread and believe me when I say this, There have been some very compelling arguments for a recount!
I just want to wait and hear what Dr. Paul says first!
Thank you all again and have a great day!
Losing value, not loving value
The dollar is losing value. Evidently the folks who print the dollars don't love value very much.
Sorry for the typo. That is all.
I like this angle
Its important that RP does not look like a sore loser.
Why another recount thread?
Distractions? Are you kidding me?
Nystrom has already set a thread up for this topic on the homepage. I posted my lengthy comments on this topic there.
Bottom line, IT IS OUR RIGHT to demand a recount!
maybe, but is it smart
:-)
correction
It is not your right to demand a recount. It is Ron Paul's right to demand a recount. Ron Paul is a man of integrity. I trust him to make the right decision.
I just wanted to remind everyone
what a whiner Gore was in 2000. That whole event left a bad taste in my mouth. That said I do believe we need to diligent in doing everything we can to ensure that all votes are counted in future primaries. But complaining about 12 delegates in NH is no way to continue on with a national campaign. Remember, there are over 2000 Republican delegates to be had. And there is, as of yet, no clear leader. At this point, its time to move on.
Why not just isolate a few precincts to scrutinize
It's too impracticle to do a Statewide recount...........pick a few, and see if that turns up anything.......I'm not sure what we're looking for, maybe 1 delegate, or 2............I'd blow it off and concentrate on correcting Ron Paul's campaign stategy. It's going to look kind of petty, if you don't find anything wrong. Fred's not wanting a recount, nor is Rudy. Nor is Huckabee. Can an election be rigged Statewide against 1 particular candidate? If that's so, every Ron Paul voter needs to submit his/her vote in writing as a protest.........That alone may drive attention to the problem. I can't imagine any Paul supporter having a problem with that.
On the OTHER side of the coin...
As much as I hate to admit it and post this (will get blasted for sure), our momentum has stalled in NH... we did not show good and people are talking about Ron Pauls electability...
People say *He got 10% of the vote almost!!* and proceed to say if 10% of the population likes his message, is spreading etc...
Remember Ron Paul got 10% of the REPUBLICAN vote... probably 3% of the OVERALL vote in NH.... DUH>>> not good!
and ANOTHER fifth place showing, when I think it could have been fourth... showing again momentum...
Its critical that *if* he did better than fifth place and *did* beat Ghouliani, that it is revealed to the public...
thats my take on the situation, but it seems my point-of-view is mute anyway but I have this HORRIBLE SINKING feeling that the campaign is not GOING TO QUESTION... this election.
Considering they can say *two* counties have been mis-represented, I think there is enough reason to point fingers... Also I dont believe that Obama lost to Clinton... anyway I have a feeling RP's electibility is going to be compromised after this election. (I am speaking what I see is a point, so no I am not a troll but stating something that I feel is pretty obvious)
What happens to the money
What happens to the money you are donating to the granny warriors if the campaign does not call for a recount. Are you going to return the money?
Anyone who donates to this before we know if Dr. Paul will ask for a recount is stupid. A fool and his money are quickly parted.
Send it to the campaign or the blimp!
We need to continue forward, never looking back and always getting smarter and wiser to their tactics!
We will not be denied the right to put the message of freedom out there in front of the public!
Freedom is contagious and everyone wants some!
You're right
But what we can do is push HARD for paper ballots in future primaries. Machines don't work, they're open to the fix and very few trust them. That would be the best use of our energies given the recount push would pull Dr Paul and us off message.
'Trust but verify'. Can't do that with machines
I agree
It will hurt us to demand a recount, but that does not mean we can't work for fair counting in future
Asking for a recount will paint Dr. Paul as a whiner. Do any of you guys remember 2000? Whether or not actually won the election he looked like a total pansy.
In order to win the war, sometimes you have to deal with a few lost battles. NH was won of the battles. Lets work for fair and open ballot counting in future primaries and stop sweating over 12 measly delegates (remember there are over 2000 delegates to be had).
I agree with you 1000%
Ron Paul for President!!!
We need to make them aware that we know what happened in NH and it is not going to go unchecked.
At the right time we will revisit this issue!
We also need more people to donate their services to be there at the polls when the votes are being counted!
Thank you for your post!
It's The Little Things That Count
Here's a story for you (I'll make it quick) //
For the lack of a nail -- a horse shoe was lost.
For the lack of a shoe -- the horse was lost.
For the lack of a horse -- the rider was lost.
For the lack of a rider -- the lance was lost.
For the lack of a lance -- the battle was lost.
All battles are important // never 'allow' one to be lost. Don't give up -- easily; thinking otherwise it could all be over sooner than expected...
Vote RON PAUL 2008
Was that the only lance in the battle?
Or, was that the only battle in the war? We need to focus on the big picture here. The sad thing is that dailypaul is being overwhelmed by discussion concerning the recount. There is no discussion on how to win South Carolina, Nevada, and Michigan. Can't you see, we are being derailed?
If we go forward with a recount, it will only get worse!
Ron Paul for President!!!
This is my point that I was trying to make, yet in your short paragraph you did so much better than me!
Thank you for your insightful comments!
You Have A Good Story About Peas
You sound intelligent and I'm sure you mean what you say as regards this thread you created. However at the same time your choice of words (subject line above) clearly indicates a negativity by saying in essence 'why we can't' do //
That seems to me to go in complete hand-in-hand agreement with saying something like 'why we can't' win // when we should be more positive in our thinking, saying 'why we will' win.
If voter fraud is there -- fraud is the key word -- not simple mistakes -- but fraud // Hey, that's an entire another issue.
Anyone willing to accept fraud speaks for something other than what I have in my heart and mind. Surely this is not what you mean.
Of course the risk of coming across as a weak candidate would surely be the case if we turned over that rock and SCREAMED bloody-murder at the thing crawling there -- and that thing was a earth worm. But if is reared its ugly head and it was in fact a rattle snake, ready to sink its wide open mouth and all that dripping venom into the side of our fleshy cheek // then that'd be entirely another matter in my way of thinking.
For clarification:
earth worm = a few honest mistakes (no big deal to get upset over)
rattle snake = voter fraud (better get upset over or suffer the consequences)
Vote RON PAUL 2008
I am grateful for you insightful post!
Ron Paul for President!!!
I do agree and am upset over this voter fraud thing! I believe it to be intentional and have no delusion's on what we are facing.
If I have not expressed myself correctly then I apologize for that. I do believe we will prevail.
If I can just leave one thought it would be this, what ever and I do mean what ever Dr. Paul decides to do, I am there with him.
My point was that we need to trust Dr. Paul will make the right decision and not leave, if he does not make the decision that we want!
If anyone does not believe that I support Dr. Paul, then let me tell you now as one who has a 5 month old baby girl that her future is paramount to me.
I believe without Dr. Paul that this Country is headed for ruin and unless we can give him our unbridled support then he can not make the decisions that he needs to make!
Again than you for your comments!
Well You're Entirely Welcome -- Thank You
Vote RON PAUL 2008
______________
But let me express what this forum is up against -- SOMEONE (??) flagged that post you address of mine and apparently considered it not appropriate for forum consumption.
Imagine that.
You take care of that 5 month old child // I have six grandchildren that I am concerned about (personally) // I sure don't want them being sent to some far away land to fight in a war that's only true purpose is to line the pockets of the greedy and corrupt (that's how I view any concept related to seeking a NWO and what's happening in the world today).
-- I'm prior military (retired Master Sergeant, US Army) with 26-years active duty service // a volunteer many years ago for duty in Vietnam (even extended my tour there) // Turns out that war was ALSO based upon lies and as a result over 50-thousand brave soldiers met their untimely demise // that's over 50-thousand brave American citizens -- plus the other side numbered in the MILLION -- all dying for a lie.
I woke to the TRUTH only very recently and // a lie is a lie is a lie. It's best we all learn this.
A war may at some future time be necessary, our only recourse, but a lie and war (in my mind) just don't fit together nicely.
Let's vote RON PAUL in office (got to make sure first of all that fraud isn't the issue and stumbling block) and by doing that we will in the process make damn sure that any war we need fight is a war that needs fighting.
My continuing thoughts on the subject.
Recognize SUBVERSION When You See It, People
Those wanting to DENY Dr. Paul a Recount, for whatever LAME BRAIN reason, are SUBVERTS -- Plain and Simple.
Thank you for comments!
Ron Paul for President!!!
I apologize if I have not made myself perfectly clear on this issue! Should Dr. Paul decide to go forward with this recount, I am behind him, beside him and in front of him on this matter.
But should he decide against it, then the same thing applies.
I am grateful for your comments and hope you realize that what ever Dr. Paul decides to do,that I am in complete agreement with him on this matter.
But should he decide to go another way then I too am with him!
Again thank you for your comments!
Are we talking to a bunch of retards?
I don't get it. Are those against the recount retarded? we cannot win if there is fraud. THIS CAMPAIGN IS OVER, DEAD. CAN"T YOU SEE? OH MY GOD, I wish i can shoot this so-called Ron Paul "supporters" who says fraud can happen, we get screwed out of a landslide victory in New Hampshire and we blame ourselves for not having enough people to votewatch there?
and we just sit around saying it is ok, as long as we get the message out, we should continue campaigning? WHAT IS WRONG WITH U? Can't u see, what is the use of campaigning then?
Do we need to shed the love in the revolution? We have been screwed big time in New Hampshire.
I am grateful for your passion!
Ron Paul for President!!!
The question I have is, do you trust Dr. Paul's judgment? It is easy to trust someone if the are doing what we think they should do. But to trust someone who goes against something we are convinced is right is a hard thing to do.
So I ask you, Do you trust Dr. Paul's decision to go forward? And if not, then point to me about a decision that he has been wrong about in the past.
I believe you to be a man of conviction and principles and I am sure when your pain subsides from this injustice that you will understand why he is doing what he is doing.
Thank you for supporting freedom and the return of a republic for this great Country!
So the Granny Warriors raise
So the Granny Warriors raise the $67,000 for a recount. WHO IS GOING TO SUBMIT THE APPLICATION??????? Ron Paul? No!!! Please tell me who is going to submit the application? Kucinich? Hunter?
Tim
Active/Reserves/Retired
Join the
Military for Ron Paul meet-up Group
http://ronpaul.meetup.com...
The Question Is..
Does his campaign staff tells him what's going on? That we, his supporters are certain that there was fraud in NH elections and THAT we are raising money to defray the recount expenses?
If not, somebody in one of his campaign stops, should respectfully ask him he is aware of what went on in NH and if his staff was informing him about it. And let him know about our concerns.
If Dr. Paul shrugs this off, I'm out. And I'm not voting period.
"He who exercises government by means of his virtue may be compared to the north polar star, which keeps its place and all the stars turn towards it." Confucius
To my friend and I say this from the bottom of my heart!
Ron Paul for President!!!
I completely understand your feelings on this and believe that your passion on this subject is matched be very few!
But I beg of you to say with us no matter what happens! I believe you would give your very life for this cause and ask you to believe in Dr. Paul's decision on this issue!
Trust is a hard thing to do, but without you and people like you, we will surely fail!
We need you to stand at the door of freedom and help us pry it open!
God bless you, because I believe you are a true patriot!
Foolish
Sorry to say this, but you are dead wrong! To not vote for Dr. Paul because he is moving on to SC or MI is foolish. I suppose that you never really supported him to begin with. Dr. Paul doesn't need wishy washy supporters like that anyway. Enjoy your prison planet. Peace.
P.S. I am all for the recount, in fact I think that we are screwed if we don't. However, my loyalty to Dr. Paul is NOT conditional. So FUCK THAT!
Dear sir, I understand your passion on this issue!
Ron Paul for President!!!
As a retired NCO who is a 100% service connected disable veteran, I probably look at things different than most people.
I am so profoundly appreciative of your comments and understand your passion for Dr. Paul! The injustices that was done to him is indeed great!
I so appreciate you insight on this issue and believe that you will be there with us at the finish line!
God bless you and keep you! I am proud that Dr. Paul has supporters like you and me who do so desperately want freedom to prevail!
I've been supporting Dr. Paul
longer than you know. Who are you? You've been on this thread a few minutes ago and you have guts to curse already? You have no idea how frustrating it is when the campaign does not even respond to queries. Do me a favor. Be quiet.
"He who exercises government by means of his virtue may be compared to the north polar star, which keeps its place and all the stars turn towards it." Confucius