Vermont Secession
Posted January 16th, 2008 by OurPlan
output
Looks like some of us may have a place to go after all. Ron Paul for president of Vermont!
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Nukes a must!
The only state (if you believe the fed still recognizes the concept of states) that could actually leave the USA would have to have a like minded governor with the launch codes and ability to aim them at D.C. for whatever nukes are kept in that state.
Let's face it. It's not happening.
Ending the Fed and allowing states to coin their own money still remains the only viable option to save the US from the NWO.
THE THIRD NORTH AMERICAN SECESSIONIST CONVENTION...
was held this past weekend in Manchester, New Hampshire. I attended this event and was very impressed with the diversity of the group. Here are a few links that I want to share with all of you here on the DP.
The Middlebury Institute
http://middleburyinstitut...
Alaskan Independence Party Vindicated
Northern Exposure on CNN: Dexter Clark
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Vermont Commons; Voices Of Independence
http://www.vtcommons.org/
The Hawaii Supreme Court ruled that the State cannot sell ceded lands...
http://bigfiles90.angelfi...
Independent Long Island
http://www.ilination.net/...
United Republic of Texas
http://www.texas.freecoun...
OSS.NET: Robert David Steele
http://www.oss.net/extra/...
The Fourth N. American Secessionist Convention...
will take place next year in state of Texas, probably in Nov. 09. So stay in touch with some of these sites I posted on Nov. 16
I wish I had known about the
I wish I had known about the event!! I live near Manchester, NH and would have definitely attended if I had known about it. Feels like a missed opportunity, although, I hope the meeting was genuinely productive.
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"Live free or die: Death is not the worst of evils." -- General John Stark.
the second vermont republic
Fortune Favors the Bold
is nothing new. they have been working on it since at least 2006. My understanding is that the movement is already past the peak of its popularity. Apparently the fact that they were supported by the League of the South turned off alot of the hippie supporters.
It needs to be a multi-state effort if it is going to work
It would be great if Washington, Oregon, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, North and South Dakota all banded together and seceded. I would be on my way to any one of those states!
Possibly. Another option is
Possibly. Another option is for one of them to secede first, and as a result of demonstrating how superior the free life is, the rest eventually follow.
Getting a majority in WA and OR to champion secession will certainly take some convincing. At least unless they are willing to split themselves down the middle of the Cascades.
For any of the others, if a secession movement starts looking like it might get serious traction, my guess is it would draw in secession advocates from the neighboring states, and perhaps scare away internal unionists, until the population is sufficiently polarized to favor secession in at least one state. And from then on, it's pure gravy....
This is great!
Well said, valid arguments - SC needs to do the same...she did it before, she can do it again!
"When all government, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the Center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated." – Thomas Jefferson
Hey SC
NC here wanting to go with you...Wish the rest of the state would
WAKE UP
Freedom is another way to God...A corrupt government is a straight way to hell.
Rightful liberty is
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law', because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. – Thomas Jefferson
THE FEDERAL RESERVE - Americas OVERLORD
It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.
— Samuel Adams
Ooh! I love that Jefferson quote!
That's exactly how I've always felt.
http://groups.yahoo.com/g...
The Republic of South
The Republic of South Carolina was a far different State then, she has lost so much of her courage, so much of her sense of self and the purpose of Statehood. If only we could bombard Fort Sumter again.
http://www.1776solution.b...
I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. Barry Goldwater
You also have to remember
You also have to remember that Vermont was the first State to elect a Socialist to the Senate, I believe it was last year....not sure how Liberty, Individual Freedom and Free-Market economics would fly in a State that would go as far as electing a Socialist.
http://www.1776solution.b...
I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. Barry Goldwater
Far as I can tell...
...there are about 534 socialists in Congress, but only one admits it openly.
----
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
Yep...thats
Yep...thats true....LOL
http://www.1776solution.b...
I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. Barry Goldwater
I doubt it would be
I doubt it would be libertarian at all, but we should still welcome it as a first falling domino.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
If the people of Vermont
If the people of Vermont want to be Socialists that is their business. If they were too secede I would support them 100%. I would never go there, unless they were attacked by the Federal Gov.
If we just had politicians
If we just had politicians with the backbone to reject federal money, we could ignore their mandates and all their other BS. Until we can tell them to take their money and shove it, we are their slaves, bought and paid for.
Pat
BOHICA!!
Remember... the RP Army is WORLDWIDE
Freedom is not just popular here.
Just look at the meet-up groups that formed in other countries worldwide. We are not alone. If there ever is a secession, we could fill any state will massive numbers if we invite our brothers and sisters in arms from around the globe.
Ahhhhh.... but I dream...
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
After the devestating results
of this election and the dire outlooks it brings for the rest of the world I do reconsider the Free State idea.
Fellowship of the White Rose
Here's what's wrong with the Free State Project concept.
WITHOUT truly criticizing founder Jason Sorens, who I think means well.
I was in the Free State Project pretty much throughout its history right up until the point, after selection of New Hampshire, when they politely asked everyone who wasn't moving to Hampshire to leave. So I left, along with many others who had been pulling for Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho.
For those who are just now learning about it, the project proposes to move 20,000 libertarians to one state with a population below one million, where their concentrated numbers will supposedly "take over" the political culture of the state.
In my opinion, it suffers from two fatal errors:
1. It has no political platform, meaning no point of focus. It proposes a convergence of "liberty oriented" people and "libertarians" to effect change.
This is a problem, because:
-If you ask Rush Limbaugh, Barack Obama, and George W. Bush if they believe in liberty, they will each answer "yes".
-If you ask Camille Paglia, Bill Maher, Neal Boortz, and Alan Greenspan if they are libertarians, they will each answer "yes".
No focus means no sights on the rifle, so to speak. (A problem this movement has as well--although we at least have Ron Paul to lead by example.)
The FSP has no one to lead and no defining platform. This ensures that interactions will almost certainly be social experiences with lots of what I call "cocktail weiner libertarian" talk, instead of focused action. When I posted on the FSP Forums, there was constant argument, hem-haw, and squabble over "what is and isn't libertarian". With the faithful who moved there, I'm guessing there may be less squabbling and more Beer 'n' Pretzels chatter, but little more forward movement, I would suspect.
2. The second problem I will sum up quickly: There is a reason border states of Canada---and all the FSP finalist states were touching or relatively close to Canada---have low populations:
Because most of the jobs are further south, and it's harder to make a living in the far northern US. There's not as much economic base in New Hampshire or Vermont as in North Carolina or Florida. There aren't as many jobs in Wyoming as there are in Oklahoma or Alabama. These northern tier states have thin populations for a reason. Because it's hard to make a living there.
Such a project would actually do better to propose moving 40,000 people, or 60,000, to a southern or western state with a stronger economy, instead of sending 20,000 intrepid souls to a scenic enclave dependent largely on agriculture and tourism. More members would be able to relocate because they would be able to get jobs.
According to what I've heard, only 450 people have relocated to the Free State Project, which is equivalent to a very small town in Texas. It would be very easy, by comparison, to get 45,000 libertarians to move to Texas. The economy will support people there, and there are jobs.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Open up the markets and you will get your jobs
Manufacturing bases and other numerous jobs would flock to a truly free-market state. But I definitely agree with you on your post. I hate when socialists like Paglia and Maher call themselves libertarians but then endorse HUGE government obama. It doesn't make any sense and it taints the movement.
"Greater than the force of mighty armies is the power of an idea whose time has come"
- Victor Hugo
good points
Fortune Favors the Bold
the definition of liberty is a big thing, and indeed, problematic even here.
I think the the Free State
I think the the Free State Project was a great idea back then, but getting people to move for political, not immediate economic, reasons during a massive boom, is hard. When free money has everybody promoted and compensated way beyond their natural 'station' just where they're at, it's hard to get them to move to where they have to start lower on the rungs.
As economic outlooks, and NH real estate, return to normalcy, maybe we'll see some pickup.
Also, I think voting for one state up front was a mistake. If you look at the actual tallies, the reason NH won, was because the western states' votes were all split evenly amongst at least MT, WY, ID, with some for the Dakotas and AK.
I feel that by promoting moving to any one of the finalists, the number of people actually committing to moving to NH would not have dropped much, while many more would have committed to move to one of the other states. This would have helped the whole movement maintain forward momentum currently lacking.
As well, we would then have freedom fighters in many state legislatures. And also, if patriots in one state should turn out to be getting closer to real traction, those who chose another state, could easily have moved again.
But please, I urge anyone who is considering moving anyway to look at the list of FSP finalists, and read the rationale for why these were chosen, before making their decision. There are more than enough patriots around to form majorities in at least one, likely a few state legislatures, and in many more local ones, if we banded together. And then, as outsiders start seeing how much better free people live, we might just start educating them by example.
But aren't states like SD, ND, AK too big?
How do they compare population wise to NH? Doesn't the state with the tiniest population have the largest chance of success?
Not if you consider that
Not if you consider that fewer people will find jobs there.
Actually South Dakota was a FSP finalist. I thought it was one of the better choices.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Again...
... Any State that did not have the intelligence and courage to vote for their own freedom in the republican primary is going to secede. All this talk of secession is ridiculous. The .05 percent of the US population that still believes in freedom is not going to prevail against the pussies that inhabit the US. Stop already.
In many small states' GOP
In many small states' GOP primaries, RP got a lot more that 0.05% of the vote. Look at MT and ND.
Also, there are many people who have reservations about the federal govt that is not necessarily RP supporters. In VT per article, some of the most vocal secessionists sound like they are closer to socialists, whose main gripe is with the federales' current fascination with empire building.
The majority of Vermonters are coming at it from the other end
They are wanting to secede so they can have a more efficient, peaceful, socialist state. They want to be free to have their own style of socialism, read up on the politics of Vermont and read in this article who is pushing for it.
They are on the other end of the line from what is supposed to be republican thought.
What percentage of the folks living in the colonies fought in the revolution?
Thank you Dr. Paul for making me act on what I already knew was right.
Exactly!
There was an article on the website of the Vermont Seccesionists proposing that Bernie Sanders could be Vermont's president. Ack!
Lol
jeez...
I feel the fear of Federal
I feel the fear of Federal military clampdown on a contemporary seceding state is way overblown. The problem with letting the South secede in 1860 was Northern states' industry was highly dependent on raw materials produced in the South, which the South could just as easily sell to England. So it was of paramount importance for the North to keep the South under its umbrella.
With, say, VT today, or NH, MT, WY, ID or something, I simply can't see any federal politician wanting the bloodshed on their hands for so little gain. AK might be a bit different, due to their abundance of natural resources as well as strategically important location, just like the South had back then.
TX and other big, economically 'important' states like CA, MA, NY would likely have more trouble as well.
My feeling is if VT seceded with a solid local majority in favor, the self appointed 'cognoscenti' in DC would sit back and snicker, while waiting for them to come to their senses and realize how much better off they would be in the union.
A problem would be, even in a free VT, the US would be able to effectively 'Veto' a lot of legislation, as they could argue it put US citizens at risk. So, even a seceded VT would likely have to tread carefully wrt banking privacy, drug legalization and how far they were willing to take their support for both the 1st and 2nd.
"I feel the fear of Federal
"I feel the fear of Federal military clampdown on a contemporary seceding state is way overblown. "
It's massively overblown. They would have to be crazy to try a military response on the soil of this country.
Want to know why? Because it would make terrorism here something real, instead of a false flag. It would also draw much more attention to Lincoln and the sham of the "civil war" as commonly preached by historians, and they obviously are 'touchy' about the idea of discussing that in a public debate. (Remember Tim Russert's interview with Ron Paul?) The cult of Lincoln is a very important large brick in the castle wall of statist American "democracy".
The bad news: Neocons are crazy. So if something like this happened, the logical time to do it would be during a Democratic Administration, that is less OBVIOUSLY oppressive, in a military context.
Like..during Mr. Obama's administration.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Except for one detail...
...they revoked posse commitatus recently.
In the absence of that, a military response on our soil is not only possible, but likely and accepted. Hence the recent stuff on the brigade at Ft. Bragg (?) for "domestic security".
People haven't figured out that posse commitatus also prevented a federal military putdown of peaceful secession. It didn't exist in 1861, and look what happened then...
I fully agree with that.
I fully agree with that. During a neocon administration, a seceding state would be 'unpatriotic, and a terrorist safe haven.' During a democratic one, it would just be a bunch of 'stupid, religious, reactionary rednecks who don't understand how much better off they would be if they just listened to their Ivy educated overlords in DC.'
Besides, on a practical matter, it's much easier to get the gun guys riled up to secede during a democratic administration, while the pot guys aren't likely to get riled up enough to take action regardless.
As things get worse under
As things get worse under Obama, we will start hearing a lot of secession talk, especially if he's foolish enough to go after gun controls.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
I can see the feds drawing Canada into it
I can already hear the propaganda about how Canada is working to steal territory from a Sovereign United States, blah, blah. They wouldn't attack Vermont straight out they would make it bigger first.
Thank you Dr. Paul for making me act on what I already knew was right.
Dumb quote from the article -
"It doesn't make economic sense, it doesn't make political sense, it doesn't make historical sense. Other than that, it's a good idea," said Paul Gillies, a lawyer and Vermont historian.
______________________
*** God bless Ron Paul ***
* Ron Paul For President *
Hawkiye, what you're
Hawkiye, what you're suggesting will lead to secession, actually. That's why I maintain sooner or later, Montana will secede..unless the invasion of yuppie refugees from California alters the political landscape.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
One State is all it will take to start it.
It is strange times indeed when the socialist and the libertarians can see eye to eye on the empire being to big. I would really like to see just one State go through with it. Didn't Oklahoma declare sovereignty last summer sometime? Something the legislature did, but I can't recall what exactly?
I like Vermont already I started reading this guys blog last year, really smart guy and his home schooled, home worked family. They raise hogs on pasture.
http://sugarmtnfarm.com/b...
Thank you Dr. Paul for making me act on what I already knew was right.
This is part of an e mail I
This is part of an e mail I received last week from my state rep, Jason Murphey:
"During the last session of the Oklahoma Legislature the House of
Representatives voted to support House Joint Resolution 1089 by a 92-3
margin. HJR 1089 sought to reassert Oklahoma's sovereignty under the
Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, and, according to the
resolution's language, is "serving notice to the federal government to
cease and desist certain mandates."
The Tenth Amendment states, "The powers not delegated to the United
States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are
reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."
The author of the legislation stated, "The more we stand by and watch
the federal government get involved in areas where it has no legal
authority, we kill the Constitution a little at a time. The last few
decades, the Constitution has been hanging by a thread."
While this resolution passed with the strong bi-partisan support of
the Oklahoma House it appears to have failed to receive a hearing in
the Oklahoma Senate. This year, with a new more conservative
leadership in the Oklahoma Senate I am hopeful that legislation such
as HJR 1089 will receive a fair hearing."
The Oklahoma Resolution.
STATE OF OKLAHOMA
2nd Session of the 51st Legislature (2008)
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION 1089
By: Key
AS INTRODUCED
A Joint Resolution claiming sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the
Constitution of the United States over certain powers; serving notice to
The federal government to cease and desist certain mandates; and
Directing distribution.
WHEREAS, the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States
Reads as follows:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor
Prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively,
Or to the people."; and
WHEREAS, the Tenth Amendment defines the total scope of federal power as
Being that specifically granted by the Constitution of the United States
And no more; and
WHEREAS, the scope of power defined by the Tenth Amendment means that
The federal government was created by the states specifically to be an
Agent of the states; and
WHEREAS, today, in 2008, the states are demonstrably treated as agents
Of the federal government; and
WHEREAS, many federal mandates are directly in violation of the Tenth
Amendment to the Constitution of the United States; and
WHEREAS, the United States Supreme Court has ruled in New York v. United
States, 112 S. Ct. 2408 (1992), that Congress may not simply commandeer
The legislative and regulatory processes of the states; and
WHEREAS, a number of proposals from previous administrations and some
Now pending from the present administration and from Congress may
Further violate the Constitution of the United States.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND THE
SENATE OF THE 2ND SESSION OF THE 51ST OKLAHOMA LEGISLATURE:
THAT the State of Oklahoma hereby claims sovereignty under the Tenth
Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over all powers not
Otherwise enumerated and granted to the federal government by the
Constitution of the United States.
THAT this serves as Notice and Demand to the federal government, as our
Agent, to cease and desist, effective immediately, mandates that are
Beyond the scope of these constitutionally delegated powers.
THAT a copy of this resolution be distributed to the President of the
United States, the President of the United States Senate, the Speaker of
The United States House of Representatives, the Speaker of the House and
The President of the Senate of each state's legislature of the United
States of America, and each member of the Oklahoma Congressional Delegation.
http://www.ok-safe.com/fi...
http://www.okhouse.gov/51...
Thanks that's it
Thank you Dr. Paul for making me act on what I already knew was right.
Ya Right...
...A state that didn't even have the courage to vote for their own freedom in the republican primary is going to secede....Please sell it elsewhere.
The best secession
would be for Washington DC to secede from the rest of the country and leave us the hell alone.
+1
...
Good point
Thank you Dr. Paul for making me act on what I already knew was right.
Secession is not necessary
Secession is not necessary all you need to do is get control of your state house and stand up to the feds using states rights. It will never happen in Vermont to many liberals and secession seems to radical to the majority.
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Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken
Get Prepared!
Not even that.
All it really takes is the county sheriffs to start throwing feds in the county jails for violating state and county laws, jurisdiction infringements, and such.
But that won't happen either, since county sheriffs are way too dependent on federal Crime Omnibus Bill pork.
Digg
Digg deep: http://digg.com/politics/...
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"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi