No Evidence of a Conspiracy?
Posted January 21st, 2008 by pchanson
output
Hi, I've been mostly lurking here and have never really started a major forum topic. I have, however, made various comments here and there over these last few months and generally enjoy the Daily Paul. I made a post earlier today in a topic in which the originator was bemoaning "Conspiracies." From what you will read below, you'll see that the response I made took a great deal of time to write. I came back later and found the entire thread deleted. We need to be more careful about things like that because I certainly could have spent that time doing something that would have been more useful. Not to say that what I wrote wasn't useful (because I feel it was informative and necessary), but after deletion, it became time wasted. Just a thought. With all that said, and with the blind luck that it was cached in another browser window I had open, I can re-post it an let the readers of Daily Paul read it and judge for themselves whether it is informative and useful.
To start with (puts on tinfoil hat), when it comes to the conspiracy FACT that there are people working to bring about world government, and someone telling me or anyone else that one who believes in this conspiracy shouldn’t be involved in the Ron Paul campaign or speak out about it, I take offense. This is such a well documented fact by now that it’s no longer really in any dispute. Anybody who does dispute it either has their head in the sand (which makes their butt a target), are afraid to admit it because of fear of ridicule from the globalists, are cahoots with the globalists or are they are just plain ignorant. There is literally mountains of evidence spewed from the Pratt House which is the home of the Council on Foreign Relations or CFR for short, which backs up this claim. Some of the most damning of which can be found right in their quarterly publication, “Foreign Affairs” and other various publications authored by the Council. Here are some examples:
“Obviously, there is going to be no peace or prosperity for mankind so long as it remains divided into 50 or 60 independent states… the real problem today is that of world government.” (Foreign Affairs Dec. 1922)
“The sovereignty fetish is still so strong in the public mind, that there would appear to be little chance of winning popular assent to American membership in anything approaching a super-state organization. Much will depend on the kind of approach which is used in further popular education.” (”American Public Opinion and Postwar Security Commitments” New York: CFR, 1944)
And the one that really got my blood boiling and started me on this campaign to shine the light of day on these globaloney cockroaches in the CFR:
“We are witnessing an outbreak of shortsighted nationalism that seems oblivious to the economic, political and moral implications of interdependence… In short, the house of world order will have to be built from the bottom up rather than the top down… an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece , will accomplish much more than the old fashioned frontal assault.” (Richard N. Gardner “The Hard Road to World Order” in Foreign Affairs April 1974) I actually have a copy of this article. Had to print it from microfilm because I just couldn’t believe that a GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL (he served in some capacity or another in both the Kennedy and Carter administrations) would write such a thing. It is tantamount to treason.
Then there is this, from the horses mouth again, Admiral Chester A Ward former Judge Advocate General of the U.S.Navy who was also a member of the council for over 20 years until he finally had enough good sense to leave and become a very vocal critic. Ward stated the CFR has a goal of “submergence of U.S. Sovereignty and national independence into an all-powerful one-world government… this lust to surrender the sovereignty and independence of the United States is pervasive throughout most of the membership…In the entire CFR lexicon, there is no term of revulsion carrying a meaning so deep as ‘America First.’” (Phylis Schlafly and Chester Ward,”Kissinger on the Couch” New Rochell, New York: Arlington House, pp 144-150)
And we must not forget about the Reese committee report. The committee stated that the CFR was: “in essence an agency of the United States government.” and it’s “productions are not objective but are directed overwhelmingly at promoting the globalist concept.” (Report, Special House Comittee to Investigate Tax-Exempt Foundations, 1954, pp 176-177)
All of the above was just a small sampling of the explosive revelations found in James Perloff’s “The Shadows of Power” (Western Islands 1988). This book, in my opinion is THE best source for information on the push for global government and the role of the CFR in moving this agenda forward. Although it is an older publication, it is unrivaled still to this day as the definitive expose` on the CFR. I urge all to read this work, but I must also issue this warning: If one wishes to keep the “rose colored glasses” on and go along their merry way and you do not wish to see the roadsigns along the way that lead to the destruction of our freedoms, then this book is not for you. It will totally change the way you view the world. It’s like the red pill, blue pill thing in the movie “The Matrix.” Life for me was much simpler prior to reading “The Shadows of Power” but I have no regrets over reading it. If you do read it, please note its’ painstaking documentation. This is no opinion piece, it is an assemblage of cold hard facts of which I have just skimmed the surface here. There are over 300 footnotes documenting less than 170 pages of actual text. Link to book (read the reviews):
http://www.amazon.com/Sha...
Here's another little tidbit to share on here from the horse's mouth. That is this quote from david rockefellers (I refuse to capitalize this traitors name out of a lack of respect for the man) memoirs:
“For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” - From “Memoirs” Random House 2002 (p.405). link to book:
http://www.amazon.com/Dav...
From "Tragedy and Hope" written By Bill Clinton's professor at Georgetown, Carroll Quigley (p. 950) writes:
"There does exist, and has existed for a generation, an international Anglophile network which operates, to some extent, in the way the radical Right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Group has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, of any other groups, and frequently does so. I know of the operations of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960's, to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it...but in general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known."
To give you an idea of why all the secrecy, here's an excerpt from a 1991 issue of the Hilaire duBerrier Report (also reported elsewhere in the French press):
"[rockefeller] told his listeners: 'We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine, and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years....It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during these years....The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers ... is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in the past centuries.'"
david rockefeller, to an audience at a bilderberger conference in the early 1990's.
Some may say at this point, “This is all ancient history.” And to that I say, go do a google search on the NAU and the SPP to find out what the Council has been up to in more recent times. There is even an official website for the SPP. Robert Pastor (a CFR member of course) is leading the way on this. They are passing it off as an economic cooperation of sorts between Canada, The U.S. and Mexico. These globaloney clowns have a strategy and that strategy is: “economic unity before political unity.” Doubt me? Check how the EU was formed. It started out as the “European Common Market” (economic union). It is now the “European Union” (political union). The nations of Europe have surrendered their sovereignty to a body in Brussels. Shameful. We are seeing the beginnings of that here with the SPP. Mark my words, you may call me crazy now, but in a few short years, you’ll remember what was written here and you will then be calling me correct.
How does all this apply to Ron Paul? Every stance the man takes, is akin to poking his thumb into the eyes of david rockefeller and his globalony crowd. Therefore, we will continue to be shunned in the press (which is controlled by them through interconnections between the CFR and high level media types, which I can also prove). Our saving grace is forums like these and the internet itself. But if we are to attack the "root" of the problem, then the FACTS as I have provided above must be known by the forces of good (that is us).
Thanks for your attention.
Sincerely,
Paul C. Hanson
Bookmark/Search this post with:
935 False Statements = LIES
Vote RON PAUL 2008
____________
Talk about 'proof' of fostering conspiracy // Well, here's proof of it. Only thing is -- look at who it's coming from:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
These LIES have been serious enough to cause this:
http://www.inthesetimes.c...
(and one more for good measure)
http://www.martinfrost.ws...
Good Post
I too have had posts deleted. Erasing the conspiracy stuff isn't right. People need to get informed on these things. It is fact now. These things are going on. Lets not forget freedom is a new thing, 200 years old. Tyranny is ancient 5,000 BC. Tyranny is in our blood, always has been, read a history book. The elite have always conspired to control the masses and always will. It is our job to fight the elite power structures that inevitably arise.
And another thing the conspiracy theorist are a big reason this movement is where it is, the conspiracy people know what the agenda is and want to stop it, a highly motivated group. The conspiracy people know how important the contitution is. Has it ever accured to you that maybe the paranoid people are the ones with the ability to see whats coming.
MONEY BOMB BOSTON!!!
MONEY BOMB BOSTON!!!
*************************************************************************************
How about this week, money bomb Boston Ron Paul meetup #68 so Joe and JC can send the necessary letters and make the necessary phone calls to win Massachusetts everyone (HQ has NOT funded MA at all)!!
If you want to help send this around, try giving a Shout! to various Ron Paul Meetup members individually, especially those we never hear from. Probably they are not reading their group mail but would read an individual email. They might give when asked personally. So start emailing people, if you have nothing else pressing to do this evening...
FREEDOM FOR MASSACHUSETTS WILL NOT BE WON WITHOUT STRENUOUS, JOYOUS EFFORT!!!
Donate for mailings to voters (postage) - http://ronpaul.meetup.com...
Donate for an ad in the Boston Globe - http://ronpaul.meetup.com...
Segue (Segway)
Is this a conspiracy redress? Think not.
Vote RON PAUL 2008
sounds about right.
sounds about right.
To H-DADDY // With All Due Respect
Vote RON PAUL 2008
____________
Let me show you how I came to conclusions about 9/11; and now about YOU, sir. I simply and quietly watched and listened and thought about what I had seen and what I was being told >> and when the matter was raised in question by some (truly very smart people) as being contradicatory to all that >> I went and checked things out for myself.
The nonsense of the official version is overwhelming. See it that way or not -- that's your call to make. I will respect that about you but at the same time I will disagree with what you have to say in this regard.
Some things make sense; but in the case of the official story -- a hell of a lot of it doesn't. Most of it doesn't. I mean -- it doesn't even come close. And that itself means something important. Too many contradictions, waaaay too many 'odd ball things' to just nod and agree and take for face value. That's not the way I am, some people are happy being that, but not me. Not a lot of us, in fact.
Look, sir, you can argue until you are blue in the face but there is no way any of the official version of events that day holds a drop of water. Not a drop. It's about as far-fetched a story as one can imagine and yet there are those out there that choose to believe it -- and the truth be told -- probably believe still in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny in some cases. None of it's true, and it doesn't take someone such as yourself (who happens to have a friend that works across the street from the Pentagon that claims to have actually seen the airplane crash into the building -- ) // because I simply don't believe any of it. Common sense and not you and not your friend tells me that there was no airplane. And besides that even MSM (CNN's Jamie McIntyre) by his own words and 'close up inspection' intially reported no signs of an airplane crash to us; he tried to change his story years later, but that's to be expected considering everything else that has come to transpire regarding the lies of 9/11:
ORIGINAL VERSION
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
BLATANT CONTRADICTION
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
There's just simply no way to accept that a huge B757 crashed there, be it a recently reinforced wall (the west wall) of the Pentagon or anywhere near there; whatever it was left a round hole that only the nose of a B757 might have fit inside, that, and left no airplane debris scattered -- inside or outside of the buiulding. A few planted fragments here and there but nothing with a serial number on it to link it positively to the B757 in question. In fact that same can be said for all FOUR alledged hijacked airplanes in use that day. Your friend says what he 'thinks' he saw and you can report that 'hear say' evidence of the same all the is day long -- it means nothing compared to common sense seeing it entirely for what it was. Or in this case -- what it wasn't. It wasn't an airplane; not the one the government has allowed us to believe did the damage. They certainly haven't submitted any PROOF of such a happening, now have they.
DONALD RUMSFELDeven admitted the same in a slip of the tongue while speaking to a group. Some have tried to excuse this by telling us what he really meant to say was ... etc., etc. Well what he said was basically 'missile' that hit the Pentagon. See this for yourself:
http://www.democrats.com/...
***extract***
Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the MISSILE to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center.
-- Donald Rumsfeld, former Secretary of Defense, The Pentagon
You can keep on talking but you're just spinning your wheels inside an official story version of 9/11 that is nothing more than just that -- A STORY.
I truly don't mean to come across as arrogant (or worse) relaying these thoughts and I certainly don't mean to disrespect you and your opinion, but it comes a time when I just get tired of trying to argue 'the world is not flat' and others want to tell me it is -- because they see it that way.
You have a nice day.
A lovely lecture but I
don't see why you are directing it at me. I am certainly entitled to have my own opinions. I dismiss the conspiracy theories when they are based on what I consider to be incorrect ideas. I have never expressed that others should not hold their own ideas about 9/11. Feel free. Indeed, I am highly suspicious of what happened with WT7 and, like you, I find there to be many holes in the "official" version of events.
Because I like the name H-DADDY
Vote RON PAUL 2008
____________
That's why I addressed that 'lecture' in your direction. I know you're not the only person that will read and respond -- but with YOUR active comments in this thread it seemed only appropriate to be looking in your direction when speaking. Smile. Just my way of trying to relay some thought on the subject. My turn to shut up for awhile.
Next.
Fair enough!
I always read your comments because they are always clearly stated and thought provoking. Keep 'em coming!
Excellent post Paul!
I have read Shadows of Power along with many other books that point out the same group of Insiders. As some have pointed out in this thread it is no longer a conspiracy, since it is much more out in the open now. As one great man put it, They will be running naked for the finish line and that maybe our last chance to beat them. That chance is now! Educate yourself on the enemy. We are in a fight for this country and you must know who your enemy is and what their tactics are to beat them. This movement cannot end whether Dr. Paul wins the presidency or not. We have to keep in contact and organize (because I assure you they are organized) to win over or vote in new congressional reps that understand the limited and enumerated powers in the constitution. Education is the key, and we can win over the hearts and minds of our fellow Americans. We only need more pullers at the oars, oh ya and organization!
Thanks
P.S. (personal opinion) Nine eleven was not that different than Pearl Harbor or the sinking of the Lusitania, these were all events that got us into wars. Starting out conversations with these events are not going to help educate the masses, at least it never worked for me.
Liberty is in your hands, use it before it's gone
Tired of the NeoCons getting away with their crimes?
A very rare movement, let's just call it your
government representatives actually DOING something about it is occurring.
Over 200,000 signed the original Wexler impeach petition,
don't let it end here. The only way to kill the snake is to get it
out in the open and cut off its head.
Go Here: http://asknadler2impeach....
Stop the GOP from blocking Cheney impeachment hearings trying to move forward in Congress.
You do have a voice, use it.
Please help us spread the word.
Thanks Paul...That was good
Thanks Paul...That was good reading. I checked your references and they stand by themselves. Hopefully others will do the same.
I see what you are saying....but.
I don't think you are the judge of who should or who shouldn't support Paul. At this point we need all of the help we can get. As true as you think a conspiracy is, it turns people off. I know this from experience. You should see the look on my wife's face when I talk about fluoride poisoning. Just chill and save the talk of NWO for other more appropriate outlets. Most sheeple will just run to whoever tells them everything is ok. We know its not, but now is not time to alienate.
Got it?
Good.
Nor do I think you should be the one to decide...
Here's why {from my previous answers on this thread):
"The fact of the matter is however, that people coming here NEED to be fully informed of everything that is going on, including the sovereignty issue. Ron Paul talks about it all the time so the topic is quite germane to this campaign. Deletion of this thread, if it remains "reasoned and accurate", is akin to cutting off ones own nose to spite ones face. I hope our merry troop of flaggers and censors realize this and leave it the h e double hockey sticks alone."
I would also add the following from some of my other posts in this thread:
"There isn't 1 in 500 Americans that can even name the CFR (it used to be 1 in 1000 so some progress there) and yet no less than 9 of those schmucks were running for president (both parties included). This fact alone, that 9 running are CFR and not 1 in 500 can name the group, should ring alarm bells across the country all by itself. If more were aware, they would be able to easily determine that something was amiss and those 9 losers would be out in the street and Ron Paul would be our next president."
"It for that reason and that reason alone that I made my post. To inform. To create that groundswell this great Republic so desperately needs. Every little bit helps. My hope is that all who read it will print it out and show 10 or 20 friends. Because even though it is somewhat in the open now, some people just need to be slapped across the face with the facts to be able to actually see it."
"In my opinion, those last 2 paragraphs right there, if implemented would achieve the goal we (yourself included, or so you state) are all seeking. You may have your methods and I have mine. Your method, if it does not fully inform, leaves the citizens ripe for another plucking of their freedoms by this diabolical bunch of globalony clowns, mine however does not. How about we leave it up to the members of daily paul to decide hmmm?"
Got it??
Good.
Paul
Terriers
Please, please this is 'fueling' the unfair kook-nutjob image. I know it is a subject close to many folks hearts but it is also non-partisan too.
So before any attacks come Ron Paul for Presidents' way from the MSM I'd like to point out that there is a list on www.patriotsquestion911.c... where there is a group of non politically motivated citizens asking for re-investigation outside politics. Ta.
Thanks Paul
Thank you for a thoughtful post. Sorry that the last time you posted it it got "pulled" the author of any post can take a post down if he wants to, so maybe you just shamed him into taking it down with your well thought out response. I do think that whats really going on in government at the top bares little resemblance to what we are told goes on, that is true at any organization, but in government if there is a policy shift towards a world government, then as voters we need to know about it. So again Thanks and I will check out The Shadows of Power per your recommendation.
Now to the 9/11 Turthers out there that have taken over this post, I have always wanted to talk to one of you. I live in the DC area so most of the people around here actually saw the plane sitting is the side of the pentagon. National Airport is five miles away so some people who might be hard to fool too. What do you guys think that was? There are people I know that saw the plane flying. What are you guys saying that it was some kind of dummy plane and an explosion and they did this without anyone knowing about it. Look at a map there's freeways all around the Pentagon, its not out in a field somewhere, it's down town in Arlington. Please explain to me the alternative that makes more sense than the accepted story, and I will believe your story. Simple as that. Thanks.
Did they see the plane hit the Pentagon?
Or did they just see a plane flying around above it? I've looked at the pictures of the Pentagon after the attack and I must say, there is no plane there and it looks like it was hit by a missile.
There are also whitnesses who say they saw a military helicopter circle the Pentagon before the attack. What do you say to those people? They think the helicopter fired a missile and landed quickly while there were other planes in the sky.
What about the fligh path of the airliner that "hit" the building. Pilots have agreed that it is not possible for the plane to have made such a drastic turn at high speed. Furthermore, there was no plane at the crash site. No plane in Shanksville either.
The alternative is that the Trillions of dollars missing from the Pentagon on September 10th weren't "missing" at all. They were used to pay for September 11th.
My question to you is this - How could the attacks have happened at all? We shoot planes out of the sky when they are hijacked and get anywhere near the Whitehouse or the Pentagon. They had anti-aircraft weapons ready before the attacks. We scramble jets when planes deviate from their courses after 10 minutes. Yet on Sept. 11 2001, we allowed THREE(!?) hijacked planes to hit targets in the highest profile, most well protected airspace in the country. NORAD was confused by all the "drills" going on with fake planes on the radar screens all day... and the Pentagon says that the drills actually "enhanced" their ability to protect the country? I don't think so.
Please explain to me how the official story makes any sense at all.
btw: When skyscrapers fall down, they fall to the side like a tree. It's called the path of least resisance. The rest of the building is known as the path of most resistance. Thats why have to blow skyscrapers up to get them to collapse and jet fuel only burns at 700 degrees. Otherwise they wouldn't have to spend so much time and money to demolish buildings because they could just dump a bunch of jet fuel in there to burn it down cheaply if it actually worked that way.
Im not trying to start a fight but,
Please stay with me for a little longer.
first go here to see a video of a plane hitting a wall at 500 per hour.
http://video.google.com/v...
Then lets look at a map of the pentagon
http://maps.google.com/ma...
How do you think that a helicopter hovers above the pentagon and fires a missile at the building then zooms away with out anyone seeing it happen after the explosion. There are like 500,000 people around the Pentagon at any given time. Not to mention, wouldn't the government do this at night when it would be a thousands times easier, and no one would be killed. A lot of people around here lost friends in that attack.
Last I want you to picture a building burning. No wait a building with many floors taken out and a huge jet burning on several of the floors, its that big. Then i want you to remember that jet fuel may burn at 700 the temp can get hotter because like a blanket the building keeps the heat in. Building a building like a pot with a lid. Also you don't have to melt the steel you just have to weaken it, and the floors above will fall straight down. Because one side is not strong enough to support the whole weight of the building above long enough to push it to the side.
I understand that you are thinking that you are on to the biggest lie in the world and that its really important to believe, but you have to look again. We all have got to watch when we are being led to a point of view with emotion instead of fact. Like the Al Gore movie he uses all emotion when making his points. I see that a lot with the truther type videos, and it should put your guards up. People only do this when they don't have facts to rely on.
I know people are going to give me hell for this...
... but I have to respond to your post. I'll be short, but I'll give you a bunch of links.
First off, I don't know that it was a helicopter but there were people who reported seeing one, that's all. As for your video, it doesn't show a jet airliner with big jet engines or even the aftermath of the impact caused by the small jet that is featured. And the map, it doesn't give alot of detail so I recommend you check out this link. It has pictures of the pentagon.
http://www.911lies.org/fu...
"Wouldn't the government do this at night when it would be a thousands times easier, and no one would be killed?"
Yeah, but then you wouln't have the video to broadcast all day long on the day and during the months and years following the attack. Over and over and over. More importantly is the fact that if nobody died, nobody would care. The name of this game is "trauma based mind control." Nobody liked the WTCs anyway. They were full of asbestos, loosing tenants and money on a regular basis and were too expensive to either maintain or demolish. Most people don't know how empty they were.
Again. There would be no War on Terror if nobody had died on 911. There would be no Patriot Act (I or II), Millitary Commisions ACT, PDD51 or "threat levels" to convince us to go to war. No war in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, etc. No Terror (except for anything else the CIA, MI6 or Mossad would have done.) No War.
Now for the rest of my response, I'll let empirical evidence combined with expert testimony take over. I'll tell you the same thing I tell everybody else. If you don't take the time to look at this stuff, then ask yourself if you really care to find out if it is true or not. If your answer is no, then stop talking about it because you will only be waisting the time of legitimately concerned individuals who have your best interest in mind. Otherwise, read on and welcome.
Thank you for taking the subject seriously.
(September 11th Revisited is the best video in this collection, but I recommend going in order and taking your time.)
Short Introduction Videos
Here is a video of a Steel Framed sky scraper that burned down.
ht tp://youtube. com/watch?v=th2bnG_7UyY&mode=related&search=
and after it burned.
ht tp://youtube. com/watch?v=_ywScL2dJKM
Here is building 7. Dan Rather reporting.
ht tp://youtube. com/watch?v=tr6_WRPZjIM
Lead NIST Engeneer John Gross, Head of the NIST Report.
ht tp://www.youtube. com/watch?v=gLJ_1-qMujE
Molten metal pouring from South Tower.
ht tp://youtube. com/watch?v=9_isa-nfb6Y
and
ht tp://youtube. com/watch?v=1I0e7T48fAg
and
ht tp://video.google. com/videoplay?docid=-8564772103237441151&q=cameraplanet+9%2F11
Thermite Demonstration.
ht tp://youtube. com/watch?v=WrCWLpRc1yM&mode=related&search=
A musical montage, for fun and reflection.
ht tp://www.youtube. com/watch?v=x7xyd_IRgGs
Lectures and Analysis
*September 11th Revisited* - Analysis and video coverage of the collapses. Very good.
ht tp://video.google. com/videoplay?docid=4488542891415681105&hl=en
Dr Steven Jones 2006 Lecture.
Short Version, to the point
ht tp://video.google. com/videoplay?docid=4884818450327382904&q=steven+jones
Full version of 2006 lecture here.
ht tp://video.google. com/videoplay?docid=-2205940254635302539&q=steven+jones
Prof. David Ray Griffin
ht tp://ww w.youtube. com/watch?v=Gxorz4jWDMY
There are updated Steven Jones and David Ray Griffin lectures available with expanded information.
Loose Change Final Cut is also very good.
To DORIAN
Vote RON PAUL 2008
____________
Very well stated, sir. All of it.
I only add that this entire matter of the Pentagon could easily be resolved if only the FBI would release the myriad of video taped evidence they so quickly acquired.
That stuff they did reluctantly release (and a joke it was, it could very well have been a pizza delivery boy on a bicycle for all we saw in that clip) -- has only added fuel to the vast theories, all the more so. A simple matter that could but isn't being made available by the very folks that certainly want this to remain hidden from the people.
A MIND GAME -- FIND THE BOEING
(use the arrow)
http://www.asile.org/cito...
_________________________________________________
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
-- Henry A. Kissinger
I isnt a
Conspiracy - I know that the main reason that the media has treated Ron the way they have is because of the fact that his platform and message come against the plans for NAFTA and the ultimate goal of Internationalism.
Because I was raised a Christian, we have been taught since we were little that there would one day be a one world government, so although the current events did not surprise me, it made me realize how much closer we were to that becoming a reality, when I had absolutely no idea!
I dont know why some people call these things "conspiracy" even at the CNN dabates the dude did the same thing, and Dr. Paul clearly said that there was no conspiracy, but a battle of ideologies.
Previously known as DCALIFANO
Having studied a little about law enforcement...
... and even read and watched my share of crime stories, there is one thing that really bothers me about 9/11. The one thing the movies and real detectives always say is preserve the evidence. This is paramount. Protect, record, document and above all, maintain a reliable chain of custody regarding all evidence. How many times over the last year have people been exonerated from crimes due to evidence which has been kept in some dusty storeroom for 20 years. Yet much of the evidence has been systematically destroyed from 9/11. 9/11 was the largest mass murder to have ever occurred on American soil. That alone means it will be studied for decades, and possibly centuries. So why destroy the evidence? Regarding conspiracies, parents conspire to raise children, and school officials conspire to educate the uninformed, and corporations conspire to sell a product etc.
No more lurking. This was a
No more lurking. This was a great thoughtful article. We need more like this on different topics. Can't wait to read your next article.
I have one on inflation and the fed...
Wrote it in 1994 -1995. A version of it was published in a small paper here in Oregon. I tried to get it to post here a long time ago, but A crucial table demonstrating the feds inflation won't stay aligned properly. Need help, possibly from a html expert. It's also about 3 times as long as this one.
Paul.
The HTML is a snap!
Just use the HTML tag:
<code>
YOUR TABLE HERE
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In the comment field when you post it. It should line up nicely after that.
Thanks!
I'll give it a shot.
Paul.
I think any person has a right to believe or not believe
If you want to know the truth about anything you need to research. I think it is important when you research to remember that there is a goodly amount of disinformation out there on any touchy subjects.
Putting out disinformation has been proven, over the centuries as a method for people in control to maintain control. 95% truth wrapped up with 5% lies is their method. It is their method because it works.
I am not a truther. I think that movement has been fully infiltrated and discredited. Really, they just scream at each other and fight for their own theories. I must say that this fact alone indicates they might be onto something. The flack gets heavier when you get close to the target.
As far as steel and scientists I really don't give a sh%$. I don't care about hijackers and jet fuel and missiles I just care about what I saw that afternoon.
I have lived in cities and have been in lots of great big skyscrapers. That WTC 7 was a relatively new, well constructed, 47 story building. Now as I asked all of you I researched engineering and physics relative to this subject I studied demolition approaches and whys and hows.
The issue I have with that entire day is WTC7. In order for a building to fall down like WTC7 did something had to happen.. "Fires" "damage" "fuel tanks" etc do not begin to explain that collapse behavior.
Folks, to make a structure like WTC7 fall in it's own foot print, stuff has to happen. Buildings do NOT fall that way unless the "fall" is engineered.
The building had 40+ support columns. They are robust and are what the core structure derives support from. The NIST has never said anything to indicate they know what happened to WTC7. 6 years and nothing. if someone tells you the collapse of WTC7 has been explained that is an incorrect statement.
If someone tells you that this tenant was located in this building and that tenant was located there etc..I don't care. I want to know this:
How did 40 of WTC7's support columns fail simultaneously?
You know the guy giving some long assed answer is jiving you.
Great big steel beams supporting 100,000+ tons decided to check out all at once. Not one at a time. Not ten at a a time, which would have resulted in the building tipping over and wiping out 6 other buildings. No sir, all those columns just decided to quit all at once. I don't care what Silverstein said. I don't care about Cheney, I don't l care about the iIlumina... whatever you want to call them. You explain what happened to the columns in that building and I will be AOK . Just make sure you research it before you do because of this
A hundred government contracted phyiscists and metallurgists and engineers and big shot fancy schmancy smart guys have spent 6 years trying to come up with a way to explain this WTC 7 sh%$ and they ain't. Ask the NIST today what happened to WTC7? You get crickets.
Can we get Dr. Paul elected and leave this crap for Alex Jones? He lives on this sh%$ and we're cutting into his gig..
Damn I Was With You Completely Until You Said That Last Para
Vote RON PAUL 2008
I found this link to be very imformative!
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
This Video Has Been Removed Due To Terms Of Use Violation
I see this [subject] alot. I might be a paranoid, but seemed to start immediately after Google purchased YouTube.
?
Vote RON PAUL 2008
"Steel Melting"... not the right question...
The actual question should be what temp does tempered steel lose its temper... Annealed steel...which is what it would be after 30min in a 1400+ degree fire is dramatically less stiff and strong than proper heat treated steel...
BTW...I am a 20yr+ Racing Engineer...and a Commercial Pilot/Flight Instructor...
As such I have HUGE questions about the Pentagon hit...that is the one we should focus on...easier to prove...
Why was there only one hole in the wall...WHERE ARE THE ENGINES??
A Rolls-Royce RB-211 (the engine usually installed on a B-757) weighs nearly 14,000 lbs...it is made mostly of Titanium and Inconel (an ultra-high temp "super-stainless steel) They would absolutely not have "disintegrated" on impact or in the fire...especially as the normal operating range of temps for this engine are well above open air fire temps.
Where is the reciept for salvage metals for these engines? Thats rather expensive stuff! I could live for a year or more on just the salvage value of the titanium.....!
In Liberty,
Dave Goree CFII
Teaching Flying...and talking Ron Paul...and Liberty!
Good Points Mr. Engineer
Vote RON PAUL 2008
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I too question the Pentagon -- the recently reinforced west wall, the round hole, the failure to prove without a doubt that the airplane in question was the cause of the damage (no serial numbered item ever recovered), and the refusal to release video of the alledged airplane strike in the first place. That and also VP Cheney's remarks as reported by former Transportation Secretary Norman Minetta, etc.
I question those things at the Pentagon SO I MUST QUESTION all I believe I know or have come to know -- about everything 9/11 related. You can focus but that doesn not make any other matter any less important. One lie is sufficient to cause the entire story to fall apart. And there are truly many lies that have already been called into question.
NORMAN MINETA TESTIMONY TO 9/11 COMMISSION (they -- not too surprisingly -- never used it):
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Did you
check out the link below? The official black box data from flight AA77 as released by the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) shows the data stopping a second before impact time, on a different trajectory and course than the official account (it couldn't have hit the light poles), and too high to have hit the Pentagon. This is US government's own data !
Other pilots
have questions as well. Press Release re: AA77 FDR:
http://h1.ripway.com/rewi...
I know nothing about the temp at which steel melts
but I have seen a guy with a hammer bend horseshoes using little more than charcoal & a bellows. Don't know anything about the temp jet fuel "burns in open air", but the jet-fuel fire had plenty of combustible stuff to burn in the 45 minutes or so before anything collapsed, along with the wind (bellows) up there.
Regarding post way below about towers falling "straight down", watch the videos some more and you will see some tilt.
Sorry, don't buy the conspiracy theory at all. Not at all. Zip. Sometimes, really terrible things are done by really awful people. 9/11 was one of those times, and there's no "conspiracy" behind it.
But You See BELIEVN -- You Should Know
Vote RON PAUL 2008
_____________
Saying what you say -- as if poor little me, I don't know these complicated things -- then go on to say what it is you do know about horseshoes being bent into shape. Strange how you link the two -- suppose because metal is involved. Well, whatever (??), the fact that you admit you know NOTHING isn't something I would boast about because it is SOMETHING you should know about; especially considering what it is we are discussing here -- a very important subject of lies and more lies and deaths and more deaths because of those lies. Amazing, it truly is.
Been nearly 7 years now after the fact // How long does something basic but truly important like this take for you to normally find out? -- especially since it seems one of the major selling points (fire and steel and stresses) of the official narrative, and that (the truth) should be important to all of us citizens of this land we love. I believe it should be understood thoroughly by everyone THEN PERHAPS the guilty (those awful people you mention) wouldn't be so comfortable thinking we will believe anything they tell us, in this regard and other matters. Like WMD for example.
This is going out on a limb here -- But you are aware are you not that you have chosen to believe a conspiracy? The one our government has told us to be the truth: i.e., that's a conspiracy, all that stuff about the 19 Arabs that hated our freedoms, the 'paper' passport that survived the WTC fireball in view of the ultimate destruction of nearly all but the steel -- and speaking of which -- the steel that was quickly gathered up from the crime scene and shipped away (that steel) the same steel and criminal action they don't want to talk much about these days. And never have.
You believe in horseshoes -- and that the truth seekers are the ones fabricating a conspiracy here; the truth is you believe in a conspiracy (the official narrative that has little to no proof about it) and don't even seem to realize you do. Sad.
I don´t believe in
I don´t believe in conspiracies, so there must have been only 1 hijacker
LOL
Ha ha ha ha -- funny!
Vote RON PAUL 2008
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I just posted something in another thread where I brought attention to one of GIULIANI's supporters, a short little guy w/eyeglasses standing on stage behind GIULIANI while he smiles and struts and stretches as he speaks to the audience.
-- That short little guy is TED OLSEN --
And this is what we should all remember about TED OLSEN -- former US Solicitor General:
http://www.vialls.com/lie...
***extract***
Addressing the Supreme Court of the United States of America, US Solicitor General Theodore Olson said it is "easy to imagine an infinite number of situations . . . where government officials might quite legitimately have reasons to give false information out."
He thinks there is a never-ending 'forever-long' list of reasons when it's okay to LIE.
This is a guy that supports GIULIANI, obviously.
You might want to see what it was TED OLSEN had to say (lie--??) about his now deceased wife (BARBARA OLSEN) who was an alledged passenger aboard the alledged airplane that struck our Pentagon. You'll have to look it up yourself // Do a Google search.
Ron Paul Knows (Read Between The Lines)
Vote RON PAUL 2008
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This short video clip show he knows and once in control will do what must be (needs to be) done to set the record straight.
First things first -- He needs to be the guy in control:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
jerry excellent point.. my
jerry excellent point.. my thoughts exactly.. once he is in the whitehouse, lots of government secrets can come tumbling down!
To PHOOBAR // If It Quacks Like A Duck, Looks Like A Duck, etc.
Vote RON PAUL 2008
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Here's what I think of your insistent denial -- You wouldn't know shit from shinola even if you got it between your toes.
You read that article with quotes from WILLIAM RODRIGUEZ, you watch the short clip, and you comment that it only adds more questions than it does provide answers // You're hopeless.
And that's okay because you being hopeless doesn't change a thing when it comes to the truth and/or lies of 9/11. Mr Rodriguez was there, he's telling us what HE SAW & WHAT HE HEARD but you find it not enough. The man said he witnessed a tremendous explosion in the basement and then seconds later became aware of something (??) hitting the building many floors above -- And all that does is give you a passing thought as if it meant nothing. That below ground explosion coming before the Boeing struck (if it was a Boeing) seems very important to me considering what transpired later.
You are aware, I hope, that in one case it took nearly TWO HOURS for a tower to collapse; in the other it took nearly ONE HOUR. Not something that happened just because an airplane struck and things caught on fire. Most of that fire was in the form of a tremendous fireball that burned outside the buildings, the fuel being consumed there and not inside the structure. See it for yourself in the various videos.
Further research (oops there's that nasty word again) reveals that many others (fire fighters/rescue workers/etc) heard and saw what can only best be described as explosions moments before the buildings total collapse -- I suppose that would mean little to someone such as yourself, someone who simply will not accept the sad truth of it all.
Take a look at this extract (geared towards the twin towers and WTC7):
http://911research.wtc7.n...
[T]he collapses of WTC 1, 2, and 7 are the only examples of total progressive collapse of steel-framed structures in history.
That those collapses were gravity-driven despite showing all the common physical features of controlled demolitions. In the cases of the Twin Towers, those features included the following:
-- Radial symmetry: The Towers came straight down, blowing debris symmetricaly in all directions.
-- Rapid descent: The Towers came down just slightly slower than the rate of free-fall in a vacuum.
-- Demolition waves: The Towers were consumed by synchronized rows of confluent explosions.
-- Demolition squibs: The Towers exhibited high-velocity gas ejections well below the descending rubble.
-- Pulverization: The Towers' non-metallic components, such as their concrete floors, were pulverized into fine dust.
-- Totality: The Towers were destroyed totally, their steel skeletons shredded into short pieces, most less than 30 feet long.
All of these features are seen in conventional controlled demolitions. NONE HAVE EVER been observed in steel-framed buildings collapsing for any reason OTHER THAN controlled demolition.
___________
Not trying to force you but you might want to take valuable time and watch and listen to what DAVID RAY GRIFFIN has to say regarding the persistent questions of 9/11:
http://video.google.com/v...
David Ray Griffin - 911 Commission Report: Ommissions and Distortions
Google Video - 59 minutes
"You wouldn't know shit from
"You wouldn't know shit from shinola even if you got it between your toes."
I stopped reading at that point.
You are the epitome of the 9/11 Truther movement. I'll restrict my interest to legitimate sources of information, while ignoring nasty individuals like you, and the organizations that are comprised of others like you (i.e., the bulk of the movement).
----------
Liberty for Dummies
To: PHOOBAAR
Vote RON PAUL 2008
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Looks like you and I got off on the wrong foot, let me say once again my apologies. Perhaps we're bumping heads saying the same thing while thinking the other is trying to further hinder the 9/11 search for truth. I began thinking this way about you from your initial postings -- and that red Liberty for Dummies you display -- perhaps I have entirely misunderstood your passion on the subject of 9/11. Of course no one should JUMP to conclusions as regards 9/11; for goodness sake that would only lend itself to more confusion on the subject. I certainly haven't meant to do that.
Listen, PHOOBAAR, when I provided you with those earlier links to WILLIAM RODRIGUEZ, an actual on-site eyewitness of that day and what he has to tell us -- you seemed less than impressed and even argumentative regarding his valuable testimony. That's when I decided you to be a crank and a debunker of the truths // and we certainly have all encountered those folks, even many right here on the RON PAUL FORUM hard as that is to believe. I seriously thought you to be yet another and not worth time and effort in further discussion. Perhaps I've been wrong about you.
Now I say this because of those two links YOU in turn provided. Your 'legitimate sources' take us to two sites that I have come to also respect as honest and legitimate sources of material. Since that be the case -- I find you friend and not the enemy here.
I say let's allow this misunderstanding to pass as two in search of truth, two who have become openly frustrated with all the 9/11 lies, while both of us continue our individual efforts in helping spread the truth to those that will listen. Sorry for that earlier stupid opening. Hand --
You cannot ignore the
You cannot ignore the effects of thousands of gallons of superheated jet aircraft fuel. The fuel would tend to melt the steel structure in the center of the building, causing a collapse toward the center. There's nothing magical about it.
most of the fuel was
most of the fuel was vaporized or burned when the plane first hit the tower.. not enough to burn long enough to melt jack crap!
I can't ignore this thread anymore.
Who (individuals, organizations, countries) has gained the most from the events of 9/11/01 in terms of power & money? Who or which group cited the need for a 'Pearl Horbor type event' to advance their agenda, an agenda which was advanced greatly by the events of 9/11/01?
The simple fact of the matter is that we are routinely lied to and manipulated by our government. I don't know what happend on 9/11/01. We may never KNOW what happened. The facts that we do know indicate that something other than what our government claimed happened in the 9/11 Commission Report happened.
There are no facts that indicate our government did this to us. But there are plenty of facts that clearly show incompetence and deception.
As for jet fuel melting steel, do some reading on the melting temperature of steel used in constructing the WTC, and the temperature at which jet fuel burns in open air. If you think there was enough fuel to melt even one of the core columns of WTC 1 or 2 on a single aircraft, well, wow. I'm sorry you've bought the official story.
I have seen
old fashioned, unleaded gasoline melt a steel engine block into liquid.
When I was 16 my truck caught fire. I still have a hardened puddle of what used to be my engine to this day.
"Government is not the solutions. Government is the problem."
No need to actually melt the steel. Just heat it up
and it loses strength. Just like any other material.
Please think about it rationally
Go find the information on the relationship between the tensile strength of the steel used in the WTC buildings and the temperature of the steel. Compare the strength of that steel at ambient temps and after it is exposed to the heat of an open air jet fuel fire. Get back to me. Seriously. I want you to get past the lies you've been fed.
jeff... jet fuel is close to
jeff... jet fuel is close to being like diesel fuel.. it does not burn as hot and fast as gasoline