Dows up! The economy is back on track.
Posted January 24th, 2008 by aaronday
output
http://en.wikipedia.org/w... N
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And the Tooth Fairy is on her way
Just put a molar under your pillow.
Even the Easter Bunny knows this is more systemic (and global!) than that.
Just don't bet your farm...
Ira J. Madsen
Springfield, Mo
If you think that we have any say so what-so-ever....
or any effect at all on this stock market and what is happening right now, just read this article:
http://www.financialsense...
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"It is useless for sheep to pass a resolution in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion." William Randolph Inge
tell me if this is off track
Is the fed's plan is to short the dollar with interest cuts, so they can use the printing presses and buy up publicly traded companies on the way down for the cost of ink and paper, so to speak?
Just wait till the Iranian
Just wait till the Iranian Oil Bourse goes live in February. Watch as the dollars come pouring back into the US.
Nope
the fact that the Dow is up does not mean the economy is out of (possible) recession in any way. It is simply up for short term - still down for the month/year (January normally a very good month) because of the big surprise cut in interest rates of 0,75 point, prelimenray. Now the market is expecteing another 50 basis point at the Fed meeting on the 30th. This will cause the Dow to be up for a few weeks, till the realities of the crisis and next shoe to drop, the high oil price and the low dollar will bring the Dow crashing down again. It is going to be very volatile because of the Fed decision. EU countries will not lower interest rates (to combat inflation. Low growth and high inflation is a recipe for disaster, as Paul and many economists and gurus like Jim Rogers and Marc Faber (both are supporting RP) have pointed out. This will prove Paul's point and will work in his favour in later primaries and at the convention in any case.
I think he was being
I think he was being sarcastic...
Love the sarcasm - great wiki find
Multiple choice question - Why did the market end "up" today?
A - Plunge Protection Team (see the wiki link) is a scheme to manipulate U.S. stock markets in the event of a market crash by using government funds to buy stocks, or other instruments such as stock index futures.
B - Could also have been due to the $19B Saudi cash infusion
C - Could also have been a technical trip wire event (programmed "buys" when the DOW drops to a certain level - usually 10% drop)
D - All of the above
they jammed the shorts
it happens down here all the time. it doesnt take a ton of money to buy the futures and drive the cash market.
fascinating
I saw the wiki link and thought I would pass it along. Does anybody have more information on the PPT?
How can *they* hit the buy orders all at once? How does this work?
some links:
http://www.telegraph.co.u...
http://www.washingtonpost...
Wish more could buy
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ramsey was saying the same shit at 400
there have been 3 times it has been a great investment the great depression the 70's and now. the monetary authorities creat the demand for gold when they screw up so he's right but now is not the time to be right since 2000 no investment has done better so i dont care about yesterdays returns only about tomorrows and its golds turn. 1929 market didnt recover loses till 1945 and 1968 loses didnt recover till the early 80's so there are times that stockmarkets go throught periods of deflation. the next 10 years will be the commodities boom and gold as a currency will also benefit.
BUT DAVE RAMSEY SAYS...
Dave Ramsey, who I respect a lot, says that GOLD isn't a great investment. He says historically it's only kept barely even with inflation, at about 4%. Here's a quote:
"In the book, Stocks for the Long Run, Jeremy Segall has a graph that shows what would have happened to a single dollar invested in gold, bonds and stocks since 1801.
One dollar invested in bonds in 1801 would yield $13,975 today.
One dollar invested in stocks in 1801 would be worth $8.8 million today.
One dollar invested in gold in 1801 would be worth $14 today."
He doesn't advise buying any gold. Read more here for yourself:
http://www.daveramsey.com...
Or LISTEN:
http://a1611.g.akamai.net...
And have you ever noticed that ALL the people on tv and radio that are advising we all buy gold are ALL SELLING GOLD? They have an ulterior motive.
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"It is useless for sheep to pass a resolution in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion." William Randolph Inge
I'm happy with gold!
I don't know who Dave is, but what I DO know is that my gold coins (philharmonics) have made me 40% in less than two years! Hell, they've gone up 8% since January 1st.
I'm reeel good with gold.
Ira J. Madsen
Springfield, Mo
8.8 million?
I be curious to know which company it was wherein a measly one dollar investment would be worth several million today. I wouldn't have thought they were selling stocks way back then. I'd bet also that my 1799 ten dollar gold piece is worth a little more than $140. Stocks and bonds are just paper and can become worthless overnight.. A little hard for that to happen to gold.
"Selling stocks WAY BACK THEN?"
If you are VERY curious just contact Dave or the author of that quote from Dave's site. And are you kidding? You "wouldn't have thought they were selling stocks way back then?" Are you serious? Here's one link to stock market history on WIKI that dates stock markets back about 1,000 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...
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"It is useless for sheep to pass a resolution in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion." William Randolph Inge
Many believe gold is not an
Many believe gold is not an investment but simply a better store of value than a currency that is constantly being devalued by its government. At the present time I view gold and silver as more of an insurance policy for when the word out right rejects petrodollar hegemony.
When your government prints money, buy gold. Hint, that 75 basis point rate cut is a clue that they will be printing lots of money in the near future.
The folks you mention are selling gold because that is their business. They make their money on volume and the spread. Do you believe the grocery store has ulterior motives because it sells milk? Why doesn't it hold all of its milk indefinitely.
What irks me about Ramsey is that he dismisses the Fed's hand in the boom bust cycle. I seriously question his understanding of our current monetary system. Remember, more than anything he teaches simple math, simple life priorities and simple discipline, not much else, and like Huckabee he throws a lot of bible into the discussion.
Also, today, he rambles on about how he is fiscally conservative and tends to vote Republican, Libertarian even, and goes on and on about how he just wants a candidate who will be out of his pockets and out of his business. He all but says he wants Ron Paul, but will never say it.
I don't think he is the man of principle he thinks himself to be.
Maybe not the grocery store, but certainly the DAIRY...
I definately believe that those peddling gold have an ulterior motive. You compared that to the "grocery store selling milk". Well that's not comparing apples to apples. How about the American Dairy Association selling dairy? THEY make all kinds of claims about the wonders of milk. They will never say apple juice is a better "investment" for your health.
So that argument doesn't hold milk, er water, my friend.
And unless you are some kind of Wall Street tycoon, Dave's advice is the best advice for YOU. It is REAL WORLD. You can watch all of the conspiracy videos like the Money Masters you like, but it's following DAVE'S advice that will make a REAL DIFFERENCE in your own life.
And buying gold, as an investment or hedge or what-ever you call it, isn't a good idea for the "average joe" like you and me, pure and simple. It's barely better than just putting your money in a standard savings account. Actually potentially worse. Here's a graph of golds WILD FLUCTUATIONS in just the past few decades:
http://www.lenntech.com/p...
You do what you want. Following Dave's "simplistic" advice hasn't done anything buy improve my or anyone else's financial situtation.
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"It is useless for sheep to pass a resolution in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion." William Randolph Inge
LOL
guess you are being sarcastic, huh?
i was buying gold and silver stocks all day
i have the best portfolio in the office for 5 years i have been buying only gold and silver for 5 years the other broker called me a kook like ron paul but now they beg me to make picks for them all day long. gold is going to 2300 at least this is the inflation adjusted price of 1980 it willget there in a couple of years.
Might be sooner
The way the goofy Fed boys are trashing the dollar (to prevent a short-term market freak out), it might not take that long.
Bernake needs to have a long talk with Dr. Paul.
Ira J. Madsen
Springfield, Mo
Not!
right,
Watch freedomtofascism.com
Stock Market is not an indication of the Economy
The state of the economy is based on a basket of factors--the price of the Dow is not one of them. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...
wont last
The market is due to correct. What good is cutting rates if everyone's in debt and no one has any credit? DUH.
I love the smell of freshly printed $$ in the morning
Better spent them greenbacks while the ink's still wet! (and they are still worth something)
The Chinese and other US creditors did it today.
They bought themselves some more US banks-stock.
Run Ron, Run.
Life's 2 short 4 mistakes
Saudi Arabia gave temporary fix...
At 9:15 AM yesterday, the Saudi Arabian government transferred 19 billion dollars into the Bank of America.
usndoc1964 says Saudi Arabia gave temporary fix....
Oh, maybe that explains the arms deal. The tangled webs they weave.
Dead Cat Bounce
Need to watch it over a longer period of time. Down 1,000 points since the beginning of the year (haven't looked personally, but heard that on the news today). Bargain hunters--guess they were buying banks, of all things.
Fed is a one trick pony
For those of you who somehow think that the working group on the markets will let us go into a depression with out a fight you need to wake up. They will sacrifice the dollar to maintain order. They have to keep us all working and distracted so they can keep stealing from us. If they let the markets go down then we stop working and wake up and then they loose control.
That doesn't make sense to
That doesn't make sense to me. The Fed's power is based on the perceived value of the dollar, not the stock market. They are devaluing the dollar at the moment to prop up the market, probably under the assumption that global growth will take up the slack as it always has in the past. However, this time around we are in a totally different world, there is almost nobody left who is willing to take on more debt. Hyperinflation is on its way and on its heels global collapse. The Fed will love it when this happens though because the dollar will be the only asset worth having. The world will be on its knees begging.
BERNANKE BOUGHT HIMSELF 30 DAYS
we on the floor are not fooled. i have been on wallstreet for 25 years and old pro the rally happened at the very end of the day in the futures by the good old boys clan the ppt short for plunge protection team henry paulson to force the shorts to cover by hitting the buy orders all at once. i hope it goes higher i have some garbage to unload on anyone willing to take it at higher prices. market was deeply oversold and is due for a strong bounce but none the less 2008 is gonna be brutal for anyone who chooses to hang around.
facinating
I saw the wiki link and thought I would pass it along. Does anybody have more information on the PPT?
How can *they* hit the buy orders all at once? How does this work?
Where does the PPT operate from?
I trade on Bovespa, and our day was just brutal. I was stopped out of my position, the index was at -5.5% and precariously holding when just around our closing time Wall Street started to surge. I didn't buy but people were buying like crazy on aftermarket trading. Before today, I had escaped all previous opening gaps (including a horrible -6% gap on Monday) so I'm very cautious about buying.
Where do the ppt traders come from, and what size orders do they place? I'm totally shocked at what happened today. That rally scared the crap out of me.
I believe it is the New York
I believe it is the New York Fed which handles that.
facinating
I saw the wiki link and thought I would pass it along. Does anybody have more information on the PPT?
How can *they* hit the buy orders all at once? How does this work?
Its programmed..
and its spread around to some of the big brokerage houses
Plunge Protection Team - Trojan Horse?
I love this crap.
Ron Paul 2008 - Washington County Iowa Chair
Yea, until the next emergency
rate cut is needed to keep the economy afloat. I can't wait to get my $1600 refund back though...straight into my savings accounts.
$1600 dollar check
I can't wait to get my $1600 check. I hope they do this soon so I can donate it to the RP campaign, and the rest to those on libertycongress.org. I need to get rid of it quick as well since it will only be worth $1500 in a week.
Free and Brave
or Cradle to Grave
You can't have both
actually, buy Gold.
actually, buy Gold. Seriously. It's a bit better than donating to Paul. It puts his message into motion.
Gold and silver, my man.
Gold and silver, my man.
Seriously
how deep should one go into metals at this stage of the game? example scenario : Middle class without a "portfolio" (not invested in anything), owe 100,000 on house (fixed loan, about 1/2 of it's worth) and around 40k in credit cards etc.
not appropriate to give investment advice..but..
Remember gold is a store of value not a good investment. It works as a nice hedge against the dollar. Keep your investments where they are at but it you keep a cash savings turn some of it into gold coins.
It is fairly liquid and its lack of liquidity will make you think twice before you spend your savings!
Don't over think it. (I wouldn't jump into some investment scheme involving gold out of panic or greed.) The central banks could dump gold tomorrow to devalue it. So be prepared to hold long term which is ok because this is your cash savings account right?
There are gold investment threads on this site giving every other thought on the subject I am sure.
It was just another fear,
It was just another fear, uncertainty and doubt bubble. You can see that all the Armageddon hype that preceded the opening on Tuesday caused it to open low and go straight up. Like clockwork.
Yay!
*sarcasm*