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John McCain was born August 29, 1936 in Panama

"No person except a natural born citizen shall be eligible to the office of President"
John McCain was born August 29, 1936 in Panama

by Francis Steffan
AmericanVoiceRadio.net

John McCain was born August 29, 1936 in the Panama Canal Zone, to two U.S. citizens. It's a common misunderstanding that the zone was a U.S. territory - in fact, the U.S. had lease rights, but not territorial rights.

The US Constitution states, "No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States."

No law or court ruling has ever established the precise definition of a natural born citizen. It is generally agreed that a natural born citizen of the United States is any person born in one of the 50 states or the District of Columbia.

John McCain's father "Jack" was born in Council Bluffs, Iowa. McCain graduated from the United States Naval Academy in 1931. Like his father and son, he graduated near the bottom of his class. He married Roberta Wright, a wealthy oil heiress, on January 21, 1933, in Caesar's Bar, Tijuana, Mexico. During WW II he commanded the submarine Gunnel at Operation Torch. After the end of the war, he was assigned to the Office of the Chief of Naval Personnel until 1948. He assumed command of Submarine Division 71 in the Pacific the next year. In 1950, he was assigned to a series of posts at The Pentagon. He spent the 1960s in a series of commands in the Atlantic, becoming Commander in Chief, U.S. Naval Forces in Europe in 1967 and 1968. Admiral McCain directed an investigation into the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty and he wanted the investigation done in less than a week even though the court’s president, Rear Admiral Isaac Kidd, said that it would take 6 months to conduct properly. Admiral McCain also wouldn’t permit Admiral Kidd to travel to Israel or to contact any potential Israeli witnesses. In fact, the written affidavits of 60 witnesses from the Liberty itself who were hospitalized at the time of the restricted inquiry, were also excluded from the final report and not considered as part of the evidentiary record. The investigation was completed in just ten days. The National Archives in College Park, Maryland includes in its files on casualties from the Liberty copies of the original telegrams the Navy sent out to family members. The telegrams which called the attack accidental, were sent out June 9, the day before the Navy court of inquiry convened .
When Senator McCain was asked to reopen and conduct a proper investigation into the USS Liberty's attack he stated that he wasn’t going to do anything about it because the “matter was thoroughly reviewed.”

Senator McCain also collaborated with ultra liberal Senator Ted Kennedy to attempt to provide amnesty to nearly 40 million illegal aliens, mostly Mexican.

When the Constitution was established, the United States government did not have a empire builder foreign policy. The United States military was for defensive purposes only. As a matter of fact, the U.S. is not to have a "standing Army" and all the documents evidencing the intent of the authors of the Constitution, warned against becoming involved in foreign entanglements. The U.S. had zero foreign based military forces and certainly did not approve of, envision, or condone having babies and raising families on foreign based U.S. military installations. The intent of the authors of the Constitution is exactly opposite the policy twentieth century U.S. government has pursued.

The Constitution of the United States, Article 1, Section 8, vests in Congress the power "to establish an uniform rule of naturalization." "Naturalization" is NOT synonymous with "Natural Born Citizen."
In order to come to a Constitutional definition of "Natural Born Citizen," one must look to the common meaning and understanding of the phrase at the time it was written.

The Constitution has been called a "living document" by liberal progressives who think they know better than the authors of the Constitution and want what they want with disregard for The Supreme Law of the Land. In one way, and one way only, is the Constitution a living document. The authors of the Constitution gave a specific process to add to or subtract from the Constitution and that is by amendment. The Supreme Court, the U.S. Congress nor the President of the United States are granted the authority to define or change the Constitution in any way, they only have an obligation and duty to obey it.

There were no foreign based US military forces at the writing of the U.S. Constitution, therefore, it is impossible that the intent of the Constitution was to have babies born to civilian wives of military personnel be considered "Natural Born Citizens." The only authority the government may lawfully exercise, through the U.S. Congress, is to declare these children to be "naturalized Citizens" at birth based upon the U.S. , Congress's authority "establish an uniform rule of Naturalization." I must reiterate, not the U.S. Congress, the U.S. Supreme Court nor the President of the United States is "authorized" to define or change the meaning, definition, or intent of "Natural Born Citizen" as prescribed by the authors of the Constitution.

The original "intent" and therefore meaning and definition of "Natural Born Citizen" is one free white man being delivered through natural progression of a pregnancy, born within the geographical boundaries of one of the several States of the union, and later the District of Columbia. This is very clear and simple and what it means is born HERE.

In the Fourteenth Amendment the eligible group allowed Citizenship was expanded from free white men to "All persons." This would have been better stated “all people” to avoid the bogus recognition of a corporation being a "person.” This would have been better as it would have clarified the meaning as intended, which is having rights of people but lacking any of the liabilities. One cannot imprison a corporation, but that is for a later article.

The Fourteenth Amendment, Section 1 actually defines "natural born citizen" by stating, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
One’s wishes of what one feels things should be must yield to facts of law and one must accept the way things are according to the law until such time one is able to change the law.

There are two types of Citizenship in the United States, Natural Born and Naturalized. The fourteenth amendment defines "Natural Born Citizen" as persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof. It goes on to explain that there exists a dual Citizenship that includes the United States and of the State in which on lives. This in itself serves to demonstrate that Natural Born Citizen being born in the United States means within one of the several united States of America.

People may feel that it is not right that John McCain is not eligible to be President of the United States of America, however, this is a fact of law. "No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President. There are two types of Citizenship in the United States "Natural Born" and "Naturalized." Congress has authority to make rules as to how to become a "naturalized citizen." There is no such authority granted to Congress, the Court, or the President to define "Natural Born Citizen."

Given the fact the United States official and long term military enclaves presence within foreign nations was not authorized and in fact was cautioned against by the authors of the founding documents of this nation including but not limited to the Constitution it is not only unlikely but impossible that the authors intended anyone born outside the several States of the United States, for any reason, to be considered "Natural Born Citizens" of the United States. This position and fact is second witnessed and verified by the fourteenth amendment, section 1 where it states clearly the two forms of United States Citizenship and defines Natural Born Citizen as "all persons born...in the United States...".

Some will attempt to argue the point that U.S. military bases are under the jurisdiction of the United States and the fourteenth amendment mentions that. The fourteenth amendment states, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." The word "and" means "as well as" being born in the United States. Being born only under the jurisdiction of the United States, as some misguided military people would like to imagine, is not good enough. Some would like to believe that because the "United States" has a Status of Forces Agreement with a foreign government that military bases are somehow "sovereign" U.S. territory. If you murder a Panamanian citizen in Oregon you will be arrested by Oregon police, go through the Oregon courts and be imprisoned in Oregon, and now some other state maybe, but still within the U.S. If you murder a Panamanian citizen on a U.S. military base in Panama you will be arrested by Panamanian police, go through the Panamanian courts and be imprisoned in Panama. So much for "sovereignty."

All this discussion is nothing more than hot air and a waste of time that is off point. The point is that one cannot build a viable position on a non-existent foundation. In this case the foundation is the Constitution and the intent of the authors, NOT Status of Forces Agreements and worthless arguments by military men who would like to have babies on foreign soil, calling them natural born Citizens and have them run for President some day.

The authors of the U.S. founding documents counseled against becoming entangled in foreign wars. They also had a distinct distaste for colonial empire building. So now we are to believe that it was their intent to designate the prodigy, born on foreign soil, of the American centurion colonizing for the empire as a Natural Born Citizen?

The fourteenth amendment states "born or naturalized in the United States," that is IN the United States. At the time of the writing of the Constitution it was properly written as united States of America as the word “united” was describing the condition of the States not a proper name of a thing. The Congress can direct that persons may be "Naturalized" "in" the United States to mean embassies, military bases or wherever else they decide. That is what they are authorized to do. However, they are NOT authorized to redefine what "Natural Born Citizen" means. It means what it meant to the authors of the Constitution. The US did not have foreign military bases at the time the Constitution was authored. Therefore "born on a US military base in a foreign country" is NOT what they meant by "Natural Born Citizen."

The intention of the authors of the Constitution was that no person born outside the geographical boundaries of the several States of the United States of America be eligible to hold the office of President of the United States of America. Animus ad se omne jus ducit - It is to the intention that all law applies. Animus moninis est anima scripti - The intention of the party is the soul of the instrument. 3 Bulstr 67 - Maxims of Law from Bouvier's 1856 Law Dictionary.

There are consequences to disregarding the Constitution and the intent of the authors of our founding documents. There are consequences to following a course of empire building by military might. There are consequences to being born on foreign soil as a son or daughter of a centurion of that empire building military. You are not Constitutionally eligible to be President of the United States of America.

You may think it's not fair. You may feel it's not right. You may think because military and government "experts" tell you a military base in a foreign country is actually the United States that it's okay for John McCain to hold the office of President of the United States. You are nevertheless wrong and so are they, no matter how long they have told the falsehood and believed in error. communis error no facit just - A common error does not make law. -Maxims of Law from Bouvier's 1856 Law Dictionary.

The position stated in this article is based only upon the Constitution and the intent of the authors of the founding documents of this nation. The only authority on this matter is the Constitution and the intent of the authors. Argumentum ab authoritate est fortissimum in lege - An argument drawn from authority is the strongest in law. Co. Litt. 254.-Maxims of Law from Bouvier's 1856 Law Dictionary.
If you don't like the law, by all means work to change it, however, until such time that it is changed John McCain III is not a natural born citizen and therefore not eligible to be President of the United States of America.

And;

"I do not question John McCain being a U.S. Citizen, a "citizen of the United States at birth" even. I just do not believe he is a "natural born citizen" - "where ONLY the natural act of one being born determines the status of ones citizenship with no additional stipulations" - and therefore he is not eligible to be President of the United States of America until such time the Constitution is amended to allow it."

"The article I wrote doesn’t suggest that John McCain isn’t a Citizen. However, the process of becoming a citizen for a child born abroad is, one of their parents Citizenship must be proven to be U.S. and the child’s birth must be registered with the U.S. consulate in that country. If this process is not followed that child will not be recognized as a U.S. Citizen.

There is no such requirement when born within one of the several States of the union. Parents do not have to prove anything. The requirement is found in Title 8 of the US code. The U.S. Congress has the authority to make rules concerning "Naturalization." What is described is a declaration of Citizenship, a form of regulated naturalization. The U.S. Congress has no authority in law or reason to "declare" anyone a "Natural Born Citizen," one either is or is not. If you are a "Natural Born Citizen" there would be no need for a "declaration" made by Congress through the U.S. Code.

Conversely, two completely foreign to the U.S. illegally present parents can have a baby in San Diego and that baby is a "Natural Born Citizen" of the United States. There is no Congressional conditions because they are only authorized to regulate "Naturalization" as they regulate, by requiring proof of a parents Citizenship and consular registration, the citizenship status of a baby born outside one of the several States of the Union.
I have no doubt that John McCain is a Citizen of the United States who has served this country, good or bad, for most of his life.
As far as I can tell a naturalized Citizen has all the rights and status as a natural born Citizen except for one, holding the office of President of the United States of America.

John McCain has plenty of positions and history that make him a very undesirable candidate for President however, this article was not meant to disparage his positions or history of bad behavior it simply points out he is not eligible to hold the office based upon his Citizenship status.
If people are not happy with the way the Constitution reads then they need to push for an amendment to change the things they don’t like."

Please no troll comments, just because I have not posted much does not mean I am trolling.

Thanks

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While I do enjoy these sorts of posts...

they are rather silly. The intent of that passage was to keep European royalty (read "wealthy effete snobs") from coming over here, setting up shop and establishing themselves as the new aristocracy of our nation. The Founders were attempting to ensure that individuals who rose to positions of political power were beholden to the United States, and only the United States. McCain, for all his flaws and stupidities, definitely fits that description.

The fact McCain was born in a foreign land and should therefore be disqualified is a bad argument to make. Even if you believe in the technical correctness of such an argument, you have to acknowledge that it would be perceived as a frivolous attack on McCain's (insert meaningless emotionally charged word here). If Paul brought something like this up then the MSM, the GOP, and all of the other camps would be all over him like a bunch of hobos on a ham sandwich. They would laugh and jeer at "crazy old" Ron Paul and his strict constitutionalists. They would cry "How dare they suggest that McCain, a decorated war hero who has sacrificed so much for this great nation, is unfit to hold office." By the time the dust had settled Joe Average would be left with a skewed opinion of us and our message, and be predisposed to simply tune us out.

Stick to the fights that aren't cosmetic, attack McCain on his blatant disregard for civil liberties, his laughable understanding of economics, and his staunch support for our draconian foreign policy.

Maybe you could fix your

Maybe you could fix your html so everything isn't in bold.

I Believe You Have Answered.....

all of your own arguments. Well done. Well written. Enough said.

Dr. Paul should question

Dr. Paul should question McCains citizenship in the debate. Wonder what McCain would say?

Thank You Very well done.

Thank You Very well done.

Not much more to say.

I believe this is possibly the most intelligently discussed topic I have seen so far this year.

The 14th Ammendment

didn't 'define' Natural Born Citizen. That is already addressed in the original Article 2. The 14th merely created a form of citizenship which never existed before. Citizens of the United States. Before, people were citizens of the several states due to their birth in one of the states. Congress could make a rule to allow the former slaves to be made citizens but many of the states would not comply. Therefore, this amendment was necessary.

A very important note: citizenship via the 14th amendment is NOT the same as original citizenship. One should NEVER claim it. The bill of rights DOES NOT protect you. The Supreme Court has decided as such. Many people overlook a very important clause in that amendment: "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" people born in the 50 states are not subject to the jurisdiction of the nation - they are under the jurisdiction of their respective state of domicile. (unless they claim residency in another state and then are subject to that jurisdiction while residing there)

As a clearer illustration, the following territories would be under the jurisdiction of the United States:

District of Columbia
Puerto Rico
Guam
American Samoa
U.S. Virgin Islands
any other TERRITORY owned by the nation as a whole including military bases, ships, etc. NOT within the boundaries of any state.
Federally controlled lands within a state are under shared jurisdiction with that state.

Thus a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN as contemplated by the second article in the original constitution which has NOT been amended means ONLY people who are citizens by virtue of their birth in one of the several states according to the laws of that state. Congress has no power to define citizenship by birth within the states. They don't even have any immigration enforcement or law making powers. They only have the power to make a rule as to HOW one can become a citizen if they were not BORN a citizen. Which means that if someone wants to become a citizen of say Texas, then the procedures would be the same if they wanted to become a citizen of New York. But the question of if they become a citizen at all is entirely up to the respective state. And the passage and enforcement of laws dealing with immigrants in their state is entirely up to them - NOT CONGRESS. (Congress has such power only in the above mentioned territories - this is true of almost ALL legislation)

Conclusion - John S. McCain does not meet the qualifications to be President. Sorry dude.

Perhaps this speaks volumes

Perhaps this speaks volumes about McCain's illegal immigratrion policy?

Our forefathers knew what they were doing when they crafted the Constitution. We need to reinstate its application and assure ourselves, and our states, that the lawyers stop making a mess of it and that we the people are, once again, educated about our Constitutional Republic (Art. IV, sec.4). We are not a democracy and nowhere in the Constitution will you find the word at all.

This is the first time I've heard of

Mitt Romney's father having three wives. Why isn't THAT spewed through the airwaves 24/7???? Are they just saving that ammunition in case Romney wins the nomination? lmao

McCain is about American as Adolf Hitler. He lucked out and was born as an American overseas. McCain has so many skeletons in his closet that the Democrats will easily defeat him in the general election.

Our only chance is Ron Paul...but the Media monopoly controls all major media outlets in this nation and therefore can determine the outcome rather easily. By either reporting or not reporting things. "They Report, They Decide"

"It does not take a majority to prevail. But rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." ~Samuel Adams while plotting the Boston Tea Party.

Ahhhh...

It was not Mitt's father, it was Mitt's Great Grandfather. Every Mormon probably has a polygamist from back then...big deal

"It does not take a majority to prevail. But rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." ~Samuel Adams while plotting the Boston Tea Party.

...

Mitt Romney's father was

Mitt Romney's father was born in Mexico and ran for Prez in '68 against Nixon. This issue has already been examined in George Romney's case:

It is notable that while Romney was born in Mexico, he was still considered to be a viable and legal candidate to run for office. His Mormon father and his three wives fled to Mexico in 1886 but none of them ever relinquished their citizenship. While the Constitution does provide that a president must be a natural born citizen, the first Congress of the United States in 1790 passed legislation stating that "The children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond the sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens of the United States." Romney and his family fled Mexico in 1912 prior to the Mexican revolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...

Goldwater's status was also questionable as he was born in Arizona before it was annexed as a state.

We all know that federal

We all know that federal laws aren't always Constitutional and that applies to treaties that, effectively, amend the Constitution. Once in Washington, our so-called elected representatives behave more like the self-appointed and...anointed. Whether it is now, or 200 years ago, the effect that power has on people is unchanged.

The ONLY way to amend the Constitution is through the ratification process clearly established by the Constitution. 75% of the sovereign states need to approve ANYTHING that the feds approve that changes any aspect of the U.S. Constitution.

Much Like The 16th Amenment-- The Income Tax

Whereby the majority individual states did not have the 3/4 required vote of each states general assembly. And that allegedly passed. So much for abiding by The Supreme Law of the Land ( the Constitution ).

close your HTML tags!

... and maybe think about not putting your entire post in bold!

any one born on foreign soil

may not be declared Native born because they weren't born on Native soil which means they only could become natualized US citzens.

sorry that i didnt read your thread's long contents to post...

but SH**!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I share a birthday with JOHN MCCAIN!?? how could this happen!?!?! i already have it bad enough that MICHAEL JACKSON also was born aug 29th. thats like a double whammy of astrological failure! ugh im going to go plummet off a highrise now :(

Interesting Background Story, but...

A child born to U.S. Citizens is considered a natural-born citizen.

Congress cannot change the meaning

They may be considered natural-born and have the same standing as a natural born except for the holding the office of President of the United States.

This verbiage comes from the Naturalization Act of 1790. Congress, the President, nor the Courts can change the original intent of the Constitution.

Therefore the Act is either unconstitutional or inapplicable to Article II, Section I of the Constitution.

Must study and read very carefully when dealing with legalease.

Natural means Native in this context

A grade schooler can understand this!

Excellent...

An excellent posting, and I feel that I am back in my college political science class. In college, students would make postings such as yours and the class would debate them however, I cannot debate your posting. Your argument is logical and has merit. In my opinion, this could be a significant concern on John McCain's candidacy for the president of the United States. Your argument is questioning John McCain's qualification and eligibility as an elector's candidate according to the Constitution. Your argument demonstrates the same reasons why Arnold Schwarzenegger cannot run as a candidate for the presidential office.

Further

This is just further evidence that the Constitution, which Bush invoked last night, is no longer being followed or considered our law, etc.

But McCain signed the bill that would keep him from being President with the trauma from military service and their inability to own guns.

Well...

My own limited understanding of things is that with the 1977 Torrijos-Carter treaty, anyone born in the Panama Canal Zone (such as my father) was legally both a Panamanian and an American citizen. So I think he's fine. (Not for President, but at least for running. ;)

But wouldn't that treaty only apply....

to persons born after 1977?

how was it in 1936?

even if the Carter treaty made provisions allowing persons born in Panama to be considered "natural born" Americans, which I question, McCain was born in 1936. He predates such agreements.

So does my dad...

My father was also born in '36. I'm pretty sure this was retroactive for all people born in the Canal Zone. (Which no longer exists, by the way. It's now the Canal Area.)

Article I Section 9 Clause 3

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

ex post facto law - a law past after the fact but changing the status or circumstances after the event.

The states are similarly prohibited from passing such laws in Section 10.

There have been some judges who upheld such laws, but it is always done with legal hanky panky concerning the effects of the laws. The constitution is clear - NO such law shall be passed. There are no exceptions or qualifications as to certain types of such laws or what their effects might be.

meh ...its a reach

But theres definitely a Schwarzenegger joke in there...

Wow!

I got the point in the first paragraph. This kind of info just makes me mad cause its not gonna make a difference. Not when our current prez can commit war crimes etc. with no consequence.

Native Panamanian

McKeynes may well be eligible under the understanding of the term "natural born", as he is the spawn of American citizens who took up temporary residence abroad. To exclude him under such terms seems downright silly. One might just as well argue that an American delivered by cesarean section was not "natural born".

Viva Agora!
Professor Bernardo de la Paz
www.citizenduquesne.org

No

Did u read carefully?

natural born Citizen

I do read carefully, and I re-read constantly, but I still make mistakes. I may well be mistaken on this issue, as well, but the contested conclusion is just not clear to me. The Constitution restricts the Presidency to "natural born Citizen[s]", but neglects to define a natural birth.

Viva Agora!
Professor Bernardo de la Paz
www.citizenduquesne.org

Natural born

Read again. Congress does not have the power to define what the words in the Constitution mean, neither can the President or the courts, it is called original intent.

Can only be changed by amendment to the Constitution.

Congress only has the authority to set rules for naturalization. McCain was naturalized not natural born.

My son was born abroad

You go to the US Consulate and apply for a Certificate of Birth Abroad and a US Passport. US citizenship is no question. But you are not a "natural born" American not having been born on US soil. His birth certificate ought to show this clearly.

Completely separate, this whole post messes up my day----I was born on 29 August (not 1936) and now live in Panama! Ugh.

Holy smokes

That is long. But I'm gonna read it. Also, don't forget that they just passed a bill that states that a person who has been traumatized in war cannot own a gun. Mr. President is going to own the easiest gun to use of anyone on the face of the earth that can do more damage. He definitely seems totally shell shocked to me. I don't think he can be President after being a prisoner of war and then having to face whether to push the nuclear button. No, no, no. Now I am going to go read the rest of this.

Totally agree with this.

Totally agree with this. McCain should not have access to weapons. He is unstable. He seems like a robot. I think they programmed him recently to start smiling and act a little more spontaneously during interviews than he did in the recent past. Still, you can see the unstable robot glint in his beady eyes.

Better put ....

he was not born in the United States.

die bold

get it?