American Soldiers in Iraq Laying Down Their Arms?

I know many in the military (and many former military) -- and a friend of mine used to counsel veterans for a living at the VA hospital nearby.

Overcoming the "delusions" of all the patriotic indoctrination (which HE called "BS" and he was retired military himself) was one of the primary problems he encountered in getting veterans to overcome the burdens on their return to "civilian" society. Many of them are greatly BOTHERED by the overly-patriotic sentiments that people constantly shove down their throats. It isolates them and insulates them from the hard realities of leaving one type of society to another. Leaving the military is NOT simply the equivalent of changing from one "job" to another.

And the admissions of the primary motivations for entering that "noble service" often have to be brought down to domestic reality from the high-flying fanciful glorifications and shown to the veteran as the utterly fallacious pretense that they are -- only then can many put their military experiences behind (and here we are often talking about combat veterans) them and move on to productive lives with their families.

At the root, the primary motivations are almost always a desire to gain independence, or to gain respect from parents, grandparents, to "prove" themselves, to uphold a family tradition, to earn college money, to learn a "career-skill" (the latter two both normally quite fraudulent in final result if not original intent on the part of th recruiter) -- and then of course, there is that most vain of reasons, to impress a girl or guy.

This is not arrogance, but documented FACT and is well-known to people who work with veterans, especially combat veterans.

The standard line -- what soldiers and sailors and marines are SUPPOSED to say "to serve my country" -- is B.S. and most already know it in their hearts regardless of whether they will admit it openly.

And a lot are NOT so self-deluded and indoctrinated as you might think -- this is the SHELL that they believe they are required to show to the citizens -- just as most citizens believe that it is so desired by the soldier or veteran. It is simply another one of the many "games" people play with each other.

Of course I do not KNOW the specific motivations behind any man's actions or choices -- virtually ALL of us have mixed motives for just about everything we do. We work in part because we like our jobs, but also in part because we have coworkers we like working with, but also to provide food, shelter and comforts for our family.

But the man to constantly tells his kids that the ONLY reason he works his job is because THEY were born and he has to feed, clothe, house them... is a rather warped and dishonest individual.

IMHO, the same would be true of any soldier who TRULY BELIEVED and constantly emphasized that he ONLY joined to "Serve his country" and to "protect citizens" -- such a creature, devoid of other motivations, other commitments, other relationships with individuals... would likely be considered to be rather warped by virtually everyone else in the military. It would only be citizens who have no military experience who would by into that line. And every veteran I can think of that I know would consider it ridiculous except as part of "the game" and the "face."

Well, of course it would be irresponsible for any soldier to lay down his arms "on the battlefield". That would, as you say, endanger one's fellow soldiers. There is, however, a way to do it in a way that would not endanger other soldiers... as in, when the mission is over and the unit has returned to base. At that point, in my humble opinion, any soldier should have the option of bowing out, and then the commanders can decide how to proceed safely with the next mission. Unfortunately, our system offers no way out (unlike any other job). Service is voluntary... only up until you actually start serving.

By the way, the fact the military exists and is highly trained most definitely provides protection for the people of our country.

Yes in an entirely theoretical sense -- but it also severely encumbers and DAMAGES our country as well.

Again as Dr. Paul so eloquently emphasizes the level of taxation necessary to support the current (insane) level of military as it exists essentially makes indentured servants of every able-bodied worker in this country -- as the root cause of a "need" for revenue, it lays claim to a blasphemous portion of the fruits of the labor of every man's hands, mind, and will.

Consider -- even God only demands a tithe -- one TENTH of the fruits of labor of men (and some scholars interpret that it is not a 1/10 of all the fruits as many current preachers suggest, but rather 1/10 of the INCREASE or PROFIT only). But the government of the United States regularly lays claim to 1/3, 1/2 and on occasion in the past even 2/3 or 3/4 of ALL the fruits of the labors and mind of the citizens in the country... and what is that if not a form of enslavement?

And this is done to protect my freedom? But freedom from what I ask? Freedom from one oppressor so that I may be subject to another?

A line from "The Patriot" springs to mind, where Gibsons character states: "Why should I trade one tyrant three thousand miles away for three thousand tyrants one mile away? An elected legeslator can trample a man's rights as easily as a King can.

So this "freedom" you are protecting for me... are you so certain that THAT in fact is what you are doing? Are you not equally protecting the men and powers and establishment that has actually placed the bonds upon my hands, the parasite that continually and unceasingly sucks the life-blood from my company? Moreso than protecting any "freedom" are you not also sustaining and upholding the very system that lays an ever-increasing and forever un-payable lien upon my home, which continually taxes my assets, and perpetually threatens my very freedom of movement and life if I do not regularly supply it with "voluntary" payments as if I were some serf beholden to a feudal lord.

Indeed did not such "Lords" justify such payments as their due compensation for the "protection" of their "subjects" -- and how exactly is this different, other than in titles and phrases, from the actions of our current government in regard to it's citizens?

Indeed, it does NOT bear up under such close scrutiny or examination. Only by being "whitewashed" with such words as "voluntary" and "freedom" and "democracy" and such do we deceive ourselves into believing us to be "free." But to be truly "free" would mean that I would be "free" to do with my own as it pleases me. Should I desire to knock down my house and erect a new one, were I truly "free" then I should not need to request permission in the form of a "permit" to do either. Likewise, once I have paid for my home, and I truly OWN it rather than merely being a lessee or renter, then why should it be under a continual annual threat of loss if I do not pay my yearly "rent" to my feudal lord and master?

Am I truly that much more free than the serf of yesteryear? Certainly I am surrounded by more technology and gadgets... but am I any freer?

I am not so certain that this "freedom" you are so busily and expensively providing for me is truly the thing that it is named.

Indeed, I am not so certain that what you are a part of is not merely an over-glorified "Racket" of protection (as Gen Smedley Butler called it).

BTW, Thanks for not taking offense at my previous post. It is refreshing, gives me hope for the future, and I am duly impressed! (Most active military become extremely upset when I reject and upbraid them about their brand of requested obesience from me. I am afraid that I have burst many a delusional bubble as it was once so rudely burst for me many years ago by an older veteran.)

The fact that we serve protects american freedom. Where we serve is not my decision, it is ours as a whole through the political process. See my other post above...