Founding Fathers: Christian Quotes
Posted February 8th, 2008 by ZMAN70
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John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]
John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798
"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson
"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817] |
.......click here to see this quote in its context and to see John Adams' quotes taken OUT of context!
Samuel Adams: | Portrait of Sam Adams | Powerpoint presentation on John, John Quincy, and Sam Adams
“ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]
“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.” [October 4, 1790]
John Quincy Adams:
• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.
“The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61
Elias Boudinot: | Portrait of Elias Boudinot
“ Be religiously careful in our choice of all public officers . . . and judge of the tree by its fruits.”
Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]
Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]
In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."
In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."
Alexander Hamilton:
• Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Constitution formed under Christianity.
“The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.”
On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”
"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]
"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.
"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"
Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
• This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.”
—The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry
“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
“The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed.”
John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.
“Whether our religion permits Christians to vote for infidel rulers is a question which merits more consideration than it seems yet to have generally received either from the clergy or the laity. It appears to me that what the prophet said to Jehoshaphat about his attachment to Ahab ["Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?" 2 Chronicles 19:2] affords a salutary lesson.” [The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, 1794-1826, Henry P. Johnston, editor (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1893), Vol. IV, p.365]
Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”
"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]
Samuel Johnston:
• “It is apprehended that Jews, Mahometans (Muslims), pagans, etc., may be elected to high offices under the government of the United States. Those who are Mahometans, or any others who are not professors of the Christian religion, can never be elected to the office of President or other high office, [unless] first the people of America lay aside the Christian religion altogether, it may happen. Should this unfortunately take place, the people will choose such men as think as they do themselves.
[Elliot’s Debates, Vol. IV, pp 198-199, Governor Samuel Johnston, July 30, 1788 at the North Carolina Ratifying Convention]
James Madison
“ We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.”
“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]
• I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare the unsatisfactoriness [of temportal enjoyments] by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way.
Letter by Madison to William Bradford (September 25, 1773)
• In 1812, President Madison signed a federal bill which economically aided the Bible Society of Philadelphia in its goal of the mass distribution of the Bible.
“ An Act for the relief of the Bible Society of Philadelphia” Approved February 2, 1813 by Congress
“It is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.”
• A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest, while we are building ideal monuments of renown and bliss here, we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven. [Letter by Madison to William Bradford [urging him to make sure of his own salvation] November 9, 1772]
At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king;
He will save us.”
[Baron Charles Montesquieu, wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government
See also: pp.241-242 in Teaching and Learning America’s Christian History: The Principle approach by Rosalie Slater]
James McHenry – Signer of the Constitution
Public utility pleads most forcibly for the general distribution of the Holy Scriptures. The doctrine they preach, the obligations they impose, the punishment they threaten, the rewards they promise, the stamp and image of divinity they bear, which produces a conviction of their truths, can alone secure to society, order and peace, and to our courts of justice and constitutions of government, purity, stability and usefulness. In vain, without the Bible, we increase penal laws and draw entrenchments around our institutions. Bibles are strong entrenchments. Where they abound, men cannot pursue wicked courses, and at the same time enjoy quiet conscience.
Jedediah Morse:
"To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them."
John Peter Gabriel Muhlenberg
In a sermon delivered to his Virginia congregation on Jan. 21, 1776, he preached from Ecclesiastes 3.
Arriving at verse 8, which declares that there is a time of war and a time of peace, Muhlenberg noted that this surely was not the time of peace; this was the time of war. Concluding with a prayer, and while standing in full view of the congregation, he removed his clerical robes to reveal that beneath them he was wearing the uniform of an officer in the Continental army! He marched to the back of the church; ordered the drum to beat for recruits and over three hundred men joined him, becoming the Eighth Virginia Brigade. John Peter Muhlenberg finished the Revolution as a Major-General, having been at Valley Forge and having participated in the battles of Brandywine, Germantown, Monmouth, Stonypoint, and Yorktown.
Thomas Paine:
“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”
“ The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.” “The Existence of God--1810”
Benjamin Rush:
• “I lament that we waste so much time and money in punishing crimes and take so little pains to prevent them…we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government; that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible; for this Divine Book, above all others, constitutes the soul of republicanism.” “By withholding the knowledge of [the Scriptures] from children, we deprive ourselves of the best means of awakening moral sensibility in their minds.” [Letter written (1790’s) in Defense of the Bible in all schools in America]
• “Christianity is the only true and perfect religion.”
• “If moral precepts alone could have reformed mankind, the mission of the Son of God into our world would have been unnecessary.”
"Let the children who are sent to those schools be taught to read and write and above all, let both sexes be carefully instructed in the principles and obligations of the Christian religion. This is the most essential part of education”
Letters of Benjamin Rush, "To the citizens of Philadelphia: A Plan for Free Schools", March 28, 1787
Justice Joseph Story:
“ I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. . . There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.”
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]
“ Infidels and pagans were banished from the halls of justice as unworthy of credit.” [Life and letters of Joseph Story, Vol. II 1851, pp. 8-9.]
“ At the time of the adoption of the constitution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration [i.e., the First Amendment], the general, if not the universal sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship.”
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]
Noah Webster:
“ The duties of men are summarily comprised in the Ten Commandments, consisting of two tables; one comprehending the duties which we owe immediately to God-the other, the duties we owe to our fellow men.”
“In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.”
[Source: 1828, in the preface to his American Dictionary of the English Language]
Let it be impressed on your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers just men who will rule in the fear of God [Exodus 18:21]. . . . If the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted . . . If our government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the Divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws. [Noah Webster, The History of the United States (New Haven: Durrie and Peck, 1832), pp. 336-337, 49]
“All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.” [Noah Webster. History. p. 339]
“The Bible was America’s basic textbook
in all fields.” [Noah Webster. Our Christian Heritage p.5]
“Education is useless without the Bible” [Noah Webster. Our Christian Heritage p.5 ]
George Washington:
Farewell Address: The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion" ...and later: "...reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..."
“ It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”
“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.” [speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779]
"To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian" [May 2, 1778, at Valley Forge]
During his inauguration, Washington took the oath as prescribed by the Constitution but added several religious components to that official ceremony. Before taking his oath of office, he summoned a Bible on which to take the oath, added the words “So help me God!” to the end of the oath, then leaned over and kissed the Bible.
Nelly Custis-Lewis (Washington’s adopted daughter):
Is it necessary that any one should [ask], “Did General Washington avow himself to be a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country."
“ O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father; I acknowledge and confess my guilt in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on Thee for pardon and forgiveness of my sins, but so coldly and carelessly that my prayers are become my sin, and they stand in need of pardon.”
“ I have sinned against heaven and before Thee in thought, word, and deed. I have contemned Thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to have done and committing what I ought not. I have rebelled against the light, despising Thy mercies and judgment, and broken my vows and promise. I have neglected the better things. My iniquities are multiplied and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing and desire to be vile in my own eyes as I have rendered myself vile in Thine. I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior Jesus Christ who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me.”
[George Washington; from a 24 page authentic handwritten manuscript book dated April 21-23, 1752
William J. Johnson George Washington, the Christian (New York: The Abingdon Press, New York & Cincinnati, 1919), pp. 24-35.]
"Although guided by our excellent Constitution in the discharge of official duties, and actuated, through the whole course of my public life, solely by a wish to promote the best interests of our country; yet, without the beneficial interposition of the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, we could not have reached the distinguished situation which we have attained with such unprecedented rapidity. To HIM, therefore, should we bow with gratitude and reverence, and endeavor to merit a continuance of HIS special favors". [1797 letter to John Adams]
James Wilson:
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution
Supreme Court Justice appointed by George Washington
Spoke 168 times during the Constitutional Convention
"Christianity is part of the common law"
[Sources: James Wilson, Course of Lectures [vol 3, p.122]; and quoted in Updegraph v. The Commonwealth, 11 Serg, & R. 393, 403 (1824).]
________________________________________________________________________
Public Institutions
Liberty Bell Inscription:
“ Proclaim liberty throughout the land and to all the inhabitants thereof” [Leviticus 25:10]
Proposals for the seal of the United States of America
• “Moses lifting his wand and dividing the Red Sea” –Ben Franklin
• “The children of Israel in the wilderness, led by a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night.” --Thomas Jefferson
On July 4, 1776, Congress appointed Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams "to bring in a device for a seal for the United States of America." Franklin's proposal adapted the biblical story of the parting of the Red Sea. Jefferson first recommended the "Children of Israel in the Wilderness, led by a Cloud by Day, and a Pillar of Fire by night. . . ." He then embraced Franklin's proposal and rewrote it
Jefferson's revision of Franklin's proposal was presented by the committee to Congress on August 20, 1776.
Another popular proposal to the Great Seal of the United States was:
" Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God"; with Pharoah's army drowning in the Red Sea
The three branches of the U.S. Government: Judicial, Legislative, Executive
• At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge,
the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king;
He will save us.”
Article 22 of the constitution of Delaware (1776)
Required all officers, besides taking an oath of allegiance, to make and subscribe to the following declaration:
• "I, [name], do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration."
New York Spectator. August 23, 1831
“ The court of common pleas of Chester county, [New York] rejected a witness who declared his disbelief in the existence of God. The presiding judge remarked that he had not before been aware that there was a man living who did not believe in the existence of God; that this belief constituted the sanction of all testimony in a court of justice: and that he knew of no cause in a Christian country where a witness had been permitted to testify without such belief.
New England Primer:
Used in public and private schools from 1690 to 1900 second only to the Bible
Some of its contents:
A song of praise to God
Prayers in Jesus’ name
The famous Bible alphabet
Shorter Catechism of faith in Christ
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Their is a big difference between faith
and religion.
Yes, we are founded on the 10 commandments and law of G-d or natures G-d. But not on any one specific interepretation. AKA Religion.
It is this kind of reasoning that put William Penn on trial for his life for preaching something other than the official state doctrine. What "Christianity" has taught has changed with every generation. It used to be the Christian thing to do to burn witches.
We are founded on the "Unalienable Rights given by the G-d of Nature and Natures G-d." Not the God of any specific "religion", or sect. This is secretarianism and what the problem is in Iraq. It is collectivism, facism, and socialism all wrapped up neetly in a appearance of morality. Those who think they are given right to rule by God are capable of great evils in Gods name. Their integrity is unassailable and self righteousness without limits because they have been "endorsed by G-d" in their rule and power over other men. It is religious tyranny.
I love the bible and the principles in it. It is a great source of wisdom, insight and metaphorical and practical truth. But, it is also a tool that can be used for deciption, control and tyranny.
The argument that because a portion (40%-60%) of the founders were followers of Jeus the non-sequitor jump to America was founded solely on Christianity is false. It was founded on what Christianity has in common with Judism and even Islam. The 10 commandments.
The majority of the founders were Unitarians who denied the existence of hell , the authority of the book of revelation and other doctrines and some were diest or worshipers of the "god of nature". what you would call wiccans. http://dim.com/~randl/fou...
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)
Embarrassingly Stupid Americans -- One in Five Believes Sun Revolves Around Earth
http://articles.mercola.c...
One Woman's Astonishing Experiment With Aspartame
A picture is worth a thousand words -- see the effects of this deadly neurotoxin for yourself!
http://articles.mercola.c...
Biblical Principles, not religion
The principal theme throughout the Bible is the theme of liberty of conscience and free will. God is loving man but wants him to love Him of His own free will. The whole idea is liberty of conscience, not coercion but example makes changes. Ron Paul's example influences others, not coercion. That is always what he says, lead by example not force.
The founders of the Constitution took the Biblical principles and put them into the Constitution. They all believed in God (Thomas Paine was not a founder but an influencer of thought) and the principles of the 10 commandments, primarily the last six. The last six commandments are man's duty to man and enforcing those is very libertarian in thinking. Whatever a man does about God is between him and God and whatever he does behind closed doors is his business; but how a man treats his fellow man is another thing.
When you study the lives of people like John Adams (I am listening to his book by David McCullough right now) you will find them men of character overall. They aren't dishonest, cowardly, unfaithful people. They do the right thing no matter how uncomfortable it is. They were all raised on the Bible and how it taught these principles. Today we are not raised on anything except 'whatever feels good, do it.' Now look at the mess we are in. Ron Paul was raised with Bibilical principles and look at his wonderful example. He does not force anything on anyone and there are no skeletons in his closet. That is a true Christian, not the fake ones that keep throwing their religion in our faces and demanding we go along with their program.
Anyway, I hope we can all understand the difference between the wonderful principles upon which this country was founded and the artificial, coercive, judgmental religion that people promote as Christianity.
Healthnuttie for Ron Paul
This know also...for their folly shall be manifest unto all men.
2Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
This is what links are for...
...I know that I've posted this twenty times at least, but here it is again:
Ignorance seems to run rampant on the DP, especially when religion is brought up. This nation was NEVER a christian nation. The founders made this nation a secular nation, to protect the citizens from the state. Christians always seem to equate good behavior with christianity, thus assuming that before christianity there was no good behavior or decency in the world. The golden rule predates christianity by a thousand years or better, and has nothing to do with christianity. In fact, the pilgrims to this country had a far different belief or faith than todays christians have. Many founders were not christians. The reason the creator was so important to the founders, is because it took power from man and gave it to a creator. Our freedoms exist because the creator exists. Take away the creator(evolution), and you simultaneously take away our rights. Period. If a specific religion can be tied to the creator, then our enemies can simply take away that particular religion, thus taking away the creator, thus taking away our rights. For instance, if christianity is tied to the creator in the constitution, and the rockefellers(who own the dead sea scrolls) came out tomorrow and said the scrolls prove that Jesus was not a real person, then the rockefellers would have instantly ended our freedoms. Are you beginning to get it? I hope so. Read about the founders before speaking for them.
"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism."
-George Washington
BRAVO!
Well put ron paul bot.
We can all say what needs to be done, but who here lead by example today?
My Brother
I am a Diest. I am not Christian in the sense I've been taught a Christian is. I'm a Christian in the sense that God will have more sons and Jesus (or whatever my brothers name was) and I can become one. Mohammed was a profit. We are all the same. We are one. Samuel warned them.
"Walls are stronger than the men that defend them."
Ghengis Khan
Where do I start?
How about line by line?
Ignorance seems to run rampant on the DP, especially when religion is brought up.
Translation: Religious people, particularly Christians are ignorant.<
This nation was NEVER a Christian nation.
Actually, I agree with you, technically
The founders made this nation a secular nation, to protect the citizens from the state.
Yes, but it was based on values and character that is readily identifiable with true Christianity... not to say you have to be a Christian to have good values or character... hardly. I won't deny that non-Christians, agnostics or atheists are capable of being virtuous and moral people if you don't exclude the teachings of Christ or Christian virtue from the influence in the culture and personal lives of our Founding Fathers. Yes they were not interested in a Theocracy, but they did not divorce themselves of their faith (those that did have faith in Christ) when they built this country... Don't forget, congress shall make no law establishing OR prohibiting the free exercise of religion... Hardly a endorsement of a Secular state, just one free of becoming a Theocracy... there is quite a difference
Christians always seem to equate good behavior with Christianity, thus assuming that before Christianity there was no good behavior or decency in the world.
This Christian never said that! However, I would equate all 'good' as ultimately coming from God, no matter who does the good or for what purpose. I've know too many Christians to foolishly claim that Christians are good (too often, including myself) and too many horrendous things have been done in the name of Christianity. However, if that bad behavior cannot be traced back to the teachings of Christ, why not condemn the act and not the actor's stated hero? I can claim to agree with Dr Paul, but if I support the Iraq war and openly state we should attack Iran and then get going on the NAU... you can see how that doesn't reflect the "teachings" of RP... not that it may not reflect poorly on him because of my "allegiance"
The golden rule predates Christianity by a thousand years or better, and has nothing to do with Christianity.
The golden rule is NOT in the bible, at least not like you seem to think. What is in the bible is "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind... and your neighbor as yourself." The "Golden" part of that is pointless without the GOD part.
Want Proof? What if I am a masochist? I enjoy being awaken from a sound sleep and beaten with a baseball bat. does the golden rule I should not "Do unto others as I would have them do unto me?" Plug the "Love the Lord your God" part back in and the Love and Devotion to the Lord makes this event silly.
In fact, the pilgrims to this country had a far different belief or faith than today's Christians have.
True, but that is a sad commentary on today's Christians... NOT on Christianity. Don't judge the validity of a religion or a Philosophy by those who fail to uphold it.
Many founders were not Christians.
True. And many founders were. Again, I'm not saying only Christians can be moral if you aren't saying only non Christians could build a country like this... kind of silly both ways if you ask me.
The reason the creator was so important to the founders, is because it took power from man and gave it to a creator.
So are you denying there is a creator? Or are you merely saying the Founders just made one up to cover up the fact that they really thought they were so much better than anyone else and the only ones able to make the rules for this new country? Or did they just "Use" an already existing God, or perhaps the myth of one, to complete their ruse?
Our freedoms exist because the creator exists.
I agree, so does Dr Paul. We have liberty because we are all created by God and gifted with certain inalienable rights... again, did the founders just use God because it was useful to their cause?
Take away the creator(evolution), and you simultaneously take away our rights. Period.
Not sure what you are getting at, but I think I agree... not that evolution (Macro, not micro) has a leg to stand on.
If a specific religion can be tied to the creator, then our enemies can simply take away that particular religion, thus taking away the creator, thus taking away our rights.
Never worked for the enemies of the Jews
For instance, if Christianity is tied to the creator in the constitution, and the Rockefellers(who own the dead sea scrolls) came out tomorrow and said the scrolls prove that Jesus was not a real person, then the Rockefellers would have instantly ended our freedoms.
That is only after making the rather monstrous assumption that anything COULD be shown by anyone to prove anything like that. Please keep this discussion in the realm of reasonableness.
Are you beginning to get it? I hope so.
No, I think you have witnessed more than a few hypocrites masquerading as Christians and telling you that you have to be as "good as them". you reject them (as do I) but then make a poor decision to judge the message by its very flawed messenger. To quote Dr Paul again: "I have my shortcomings and faults, but the message doesn't."
Read about the founders before speaking for them.
Pardon my boldness, but this is good advise... and it applies to Christianity as well. Again, I don't judge atheists or agnostics as evil or simply "not as good" as me or anyone else, it has nothing to do with values and how people behave. If we agree with that, I would ask you to return the favor and not put Christianity in a category that only unlearned, superstitious and irrational types lean on for some sort of comfort or because of personal guilt. I love these discussions, let's just keep it on a even playing field and try to create more light that heat. OK?
“Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it.” - George Bernard Shaw
wants are unlimited, means are scarce...
WOW! I thought that this thread was dead.
Ha ha ha ha! Uhhhhh...thanks for agreeing with me? It's obvious, to me, that you are trying to say that I'm wrong by saying that I'm right. Weird huh? Anyhow, I said:
"Christians always seem to equate good behavior with Christianity, thus assuming that before Christianity there was no good behavior or decency in the world."
......and then you said:
"This Christian never said that!"
Really? In the previous comment, before this comment, you said:
"Yes, but it was based on values and character that is readily identifiable with true Christianity... not to say you have to be a Christian to have good values or character... hardly. I won't deny that non-Christians, agnostics or atheists are capable of being virtuous and moral people if you don't exclude the teachings of Christ or Christian virtue from the influence in the culture and personal lives of our Founding Fathers."
So, you proved my point and YES, you did say that. Just now! Ha ha ha ha ha! You remind me of the clintons. Your entire post is rubbish and false...or maybe I simply don't undertand "TRUE CHRISTIANITY" I know by your post that you have no idea where christianity comes from or what the doctrine is. The christian religion celebrates pagan events and their deities. A common excuse is that earlier christians were slaughtered and forced to hide their celebrations of christ, so they celebrated on a pagan holiday. Hmmmm. What is the real birth date of Christ? What day did GOD rest on? How about Easter? As I said before:
"Ignorance seems to run rampant on the DP, especially when religion is brought up."
"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism."
-George Washington
From my POV
Wyowill addressed your response. You on the other hand never addressed his original post. As you said you just reposted something again. At least address his original post and tell us where he is wrong.
From my POV...
...I did address the original post. I simply showed the hypocrisy and left it at that. I'm not saying that anyone is wrong...only pointing out what the truth is. One may believe what they wish. Besides, who am I to say that you're beliefs are wrong. If one posts something as "fact" and it is not true, then I will point it out. Simple.
"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism."
-George Washington
The Colonies and of their Christian Paradigm
In the general condition of the Colonies and of their Christian paradigm, inhabitants in their quest for a Constitutional document that was looked upon with skepticism for its dearth of reference to Christ, the Framers upon occasion spoke to Christianity generally, for their purpose was to attract the citizenry to the philosophy of liberty.
But privately and even publicly, the prevailing religion of the Framers was Deism; the religion of the Age of Enlightenment. That is not remotely disputed by the body of evidence and it is our good fortune that the twin tyrannies of government and religion were separated by these prescient men, or the Balkanization of the United States of America would have unfolded much sooner than it has…
thanks for telling us what they ment and not what
they said
Don't Need this Stuff Here
Most of the founding fathers may have been Christian - Just as most people in this country are Christian today. They were although intelligent enough to realize that Religion has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH GOVERNMENT. Since I have a certain level of respect for all Ron Paul supporters, I am not going to say too much against religious organizations. And No, I am not an atheist - I just don't believe I need an organization to tell me how to live my life and to collect more taxes on what I earn.
WARNING! If I get some ridiculus B.S. responses to this post, all bets are off and there may need to be a can of antireligious whoopass opened.
Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You, But What Your Country Is Doing To You.
The Only Thing We Have To Fear, Is Government Itself.
Technically,
You can't seperate "government" from religion. If god is to be in your life, you can't be governed by man or the ways of man. It is your choice to be "Secular" which places the vanity of (man, you) yourself, and your wicked heart in control of your future. The heart (natural heart) of man is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9
Thus saith the Lord; cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord. Jeremiah 17:5 God never force anyone, but there are always concequences for any nation who becomes SECULAR. You are the center of your universe, you make your decisions alone, you are in total control, right? I'd rather base my decisions on what god has asked me to do and that's my choice.
I believe this nation is in the position it is in because of the growing numbers of people who have decided that there is no god, or that he is so loving and accepting, we can just live any way WE choose to. Wrong. IMO...................
Actually, the Muslims realize that you can't have a group of wicked men govern you because it goes agianst what their "Alah" expects of them. They will defend their beliefs TO THE DEATH! Chrisitans are suppose to have the same dedication, but most today DON'T.
Come out of her....... Christians are not suppose to heed to any laws that contradidct what the Lord requires of them.........This life is but the blink of an eye compared to eternity
Agreed! All this is
Agreed! All this is 1,349,516% irrelevant! Can we PLEASE stay off religious topics here? What good is going to come of it?
If you dont like it let the thread die
dissenting posts are free bumps
For those who care this a great troll squashing book
The Christian Life and Character of the
Civil Institutions of the United States
By Benjamin F. Morris
It will essentially eat up the opposition. The people who claim to be after truth but only cherry pick out the stuff that supports their view while glazing over the ocean of information that supports the contrary.
Glazing on the cake.
Read some Carl Sagan. It's funny how a religion becomes myth when a new religion steps in to take it's place.
We can all say what needs to be done, but who here lead by example today?
Founders non Christian Quotes.
I am a christian but you can't burry your head in the sand that most founders were diest not Christians.
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine, pp. 8,9 (Republished 1984, Prometheus Books, Buffalo, NY)
George Washington, the first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion. When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment. On his deathbed, Washinton uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance.
From:
George Washington and Religion by Paul F. Boller Jr., pp. 16, 87, 88, 108, 113, 121, 127 (1963, Southern Methodist University Press, Dallas, TX)
John Adams, the country's second president, was drawn to the study of law but faced pressure from his father to become a clergyman. He wrote that he found among the lawyers 'noble and gallant achievments" but among the clergy, the "pretended sanctity of some absolute dunces". Late in life he wrote: "Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"
It was during Adam's administration that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."
From:
The Character of John Adams by Peter Shaw, pp. 17 (1976, North Carolina Press, Chapel Hill, NC) Quoting a letter by JA to Charles Cushing Oct 19, 1756, and John Adams, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by James Peabody, p. 403 (1973, Newsweek, New York NY) Quoting letter by JA to Jefferson April 19, 1817, and in reference to the treaty, Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 311 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June, 1814.
Thomas Jefferson, third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac" and wrote:
The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."
Thomas Jefferson, an Intimate History by Fawn M. Brodie, p. 453 (1974, W.W) Norton and Co. Inc. New York, NY) Quoting a letter by TJ to Alexander Smyth Jan 17, 1825, and Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 246 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to John Adams, July 5, 1814.
James Madison, fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
From:
The Madisons by Virginia Moore, P. 43 (1979, McGraw-Hill Co. New York, NY) quoting a letter by JM to William Bradford April 1, 1774, and James Madison, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Joseph Gardner, p. 93, (1974, Newsweek, New York, NY) Quoting Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments by JM, June 1785.
Ethan Allen, whose capture of Fort Ticonderoga while commanding the Green Mountain Boys helped inspire Congress and the country to pursue the War of Independence, said, "That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words." In the same book, Allen noted that he was generally "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian." When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised "to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God." Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those "written in the great book of nature."
From:
Religion of the American Enlightenment by G. Adolph Koch, p. 40 (1968, Thomas Crowell Co., New York, NY.) quoting preface and p. 352 of Reason, the Only Oracle of Man and A Sense of History compiled by American Heritage Press Inc., p. 103 (1985, American Heritage Press, Inc., New York, NY.)
Benjamin Franklin, delegate to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, said:
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble." He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian.
From:
Benjamin Franklin, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Thomas Fleming, p. 404, (1972, Newsweek, New York, NY) quoting letter by BF to Exra Stiles March 9, 1790.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Speaking of the independence of the first 13 States, H.G. Wells in his Outline of History, says:
"It was a Western European civilization that had broken free from the last traces of Empire and Christendom; and it had not a vestige of monarchy left, and no State Religion... The absence of any binding religious tie is especially noteworthy. It had a number of forms of Christianity, its spirit was indubitably Christian; but, as a State document of 1796 expicity declared: 'The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.'"
The words "In God We Trust" were not consistently on all U.S. currency until 1956, during the McCarthy Hysteria.
The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers
http://dim.com/~randl/fou...
Ok...
Some Founding Fathers were Christian, some were Deist, some were whatever, it doesn't matter. The fact is they drafted The US Constitution and gave us all religious freedom and didn't force their own beliefs onto anyone. We have the freedom to follow our own conscience.
What's the point of that Delaware state constitution religious test? Do you approve of a religous test? Because the US Constitution strictly prohibits it in Article VI Section III. You are sounding dangerously close to a theocrat if you ask me.
Ok, I've actually read some of those quotes now. These are probably from David Barton and other liars for Jesus. Madison never said that about the ten commandments. Also, having Thomas Paine in there is just laughable? Ever read The Age of Reason? The whole thing is dedicated to criticizing Christianity plus that quote is fabricated and was supposedly said in 1810...too bad he was already dead.
lol
lolz
wawawawa, only my quotes are good
Another thing
I guarantee that people that think like the OP have never actually read Madison's or Jefferson's writings. I have a collection of both in nice hardcover versions. You can't read them and then see these quotes and even come close to believing they actually said them. Madison was trying to get rid of the congressional chaplain when he was president. He didn't think it was right to have him paid with taxes because that would violate people's religous freedom that had to pay those taxes and didn't agree with the religous view of the chaplain. Jefferson took his bible and took out all of the supernatural elements because he didnt'' believe in them.
Please educate yourself before you embarrass yourself with posts like the OP. You just come across as ignorant.
some of my favorite quotes
to many atheists look down on Christians
I Hear Ya Jeff........
I've never seen so many atheists give their support to a born-again Christian....lol
I bet you have of them don't even know that Ron Paul is a born again Christian.
I am a Christian
But I can't stand theocrats and in this in your face self-righteous condescension. Ron Paul is truly a great man and Christian. He tries to set a good example by living his faith instead of rubbing it in everyone's face. If only more were like him.
This is all well and good...
Let's group people together then.. we've Christians here that like this kinda stuff, muslims that probably don't, athiests that are used to it by now, pagans that find it offensive... the list goes on.
I had thought one of the major selling points of what Ron Paul speaks about is that freedom of religion means freedom of ALL religions.
So why it's well and good that you can quote this, I can give you just as many if not more that will prove the other side of the coin. And none of that really matters.
Let's not start up yet again with the splinter posts, please.
Agreed
This is pointless and time could be better spent campaigning for RP.
Now Wondering
What the point of this post is?
Quit the campaign for Jesus and start campaigning for Ron Paul
The proper place for this discussion is on a Christian website. Not here.
Sorry Doc.....
Someone gets to put a thread up titled Founding Fathers: Christians, Atheists or Deists. But I can't put up a thread citing Christian quotes from the Founding Fathers?
Hmmm....we're at a site called DailyPaul. The site is for Ron Paul supporters. The person we support, Ron Paul, is a born again Christian. Ron Paul, the born again Christian, is the defender of the Constitution creadted by our Founding Fathers........
There's nothing wrong with this topic being posted on this forum.
Not disputing your right
You do have the right to free speech, I agree. I also have the right to voice my dissent. It seems like the site has become more and more evangelical over the last couple of days and I am just tired of these not-so-subtle promotional attempts for a religon. We need to focus on what we have in common... i.e. freedom, liberty, and Dr. Ron Paul!
Thanks for the quotes,
Thanks for the quotes, Zman70.
I agree. Its interesting to
I agree. Its interesting to see these quotes as well as the "Founding Fathers: Christians, Atheists or Deists?" quotes
i like it
but could i get the cliff notes?
succinct is more effective
Rhonda
Those were only SOME of the quotes. I only copied and pasted part of the web page...lol
Sorry for the length