I hate to ruin anyones idealist view of their Federal government, but main difference between the our government and the former Sino-Soviet bloc is the Sino-Soviet bloc would shoot at their protestors, here they just ignore you. Money, however, talks in both worlds.
People "march on the capitol" all the time. What does it do? Nothing. Not a single thing. Hell, Congress can't even see you from where the National Park Service makes you all go.
Just ask the Peace and Freedom Now and those other groups. They march on the capitol about every four months and they only thing they do is waste my tax dollars having to set up police barricades and cause more traffic. You wonder why Senators and Representatives don't like you? It's because you're seen as a waste of their time; money plays.
Maybe, instead, if you created a lobbying organization and started throwing money around and "buying" Congressional positions, you'd get the results you wanted. C'mon, Ron Paul supporters raised $20 Million in a single quarter -$20 Million towards a lobbying organization is a lot of walking around money and you can get Congressmen to "see the light".
It's much easier to catch flies with honey than with vinegar. Buy your Congressman, that's how DC works. The rest are just annoyances.
would probably make much more of an impression at their state capitols. What would be cool is if we all did it all across the country on the same day. Pick a couple of huge issues we all agree on so the message isn't diluted, notify the media, and show up loud, proud, and ANGRY!
I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God
What happens when the enemy of the Constitution IS THE PRESIDENT? Does one still "obey the orders of the President"?
Have you considered this conundrum, Retrocon? I'm just curious about your thoughts.
I once had a discussion with my son (82nd Airborne, MI) about how the military would react if the populace had finally had enough and rose up to throw off the corrupt government. It was an interesting conversation. I'm sure he occasionally has reason to worry about his mother;)
Key phrase in this context is "I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same (the Constitution)"
It doesn't say the same about the President, specifically to remove the President from obtaining the true faith and allegiance the Constitution gets in the oath.
...the phrase that matters most is "and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice"
We are ordered not to wear our uniforms to political rallies by regulation. Not sure how it would play out if military in uniform decided to rally for the Constitution of the United States vs. a specific candidate. Those might be semantics that would work to prevent demotion or other punishments.
The Retrocon
Hope for America, Ron Paul for President in 2008!
I think it is a great idea. I am one of hose people that have never seen any McCain supporters although I have been to three debates in Florida, and I have never seen any signs or anything that would convince me that he is really winning this election. In my opinion you can recount the vote all you want, until I see affidavits of real people, I will believe the machines were rigged. It can not be done as easily in caucuses but Romney had peopled paid off to help him in that part of the process, like when he stuffed the straw polls ballots and was caught on film. . Why don't we have a mass DC rally, where all the candidates bring their support, like a shoot out at the OK Corral? McCaine can't bring living, breathing bodies, his supporters are rigged computer tallies. Lets March on Washington and see who has the real support of the people!
When we are spread out doing different things to help Dr. Paul get convention delegates we are nearly impossible to pin down and stop.
When we all gather together and set up one place and one time "they" can discredit us.
Do you honestly think the media would give us a fair shake?
They might just twist it against us.
We need to become delegates. Or help someone else become a delegate. Give them some dough so they can get to the party convention etc.
I think the sentiment of the march is beautiful, but, our effort is clearly defined now. Be a delegate or find one and help. It really isn't in the hands of the media now.
If you have been studying the posts here and at RPF you will find that a TV ad means very little to the delegate process. What I am concluding, and I may be wrong, is that a "big media splash" really won't help win at the convention in Minneapolis.
We all became to "media vote count centric" in our thinking. We are now "delegate count centric" as this is how we control our destiny.
I just hate to think what the media and the powers that be would try to do to screw us up at a big rally.
Fox news will not be at my primary polling place. I WILL BE. Lastly, my state will have a covention that will define the delegates for Minneapolis.
If it's not too inconvenient, fix a time and day(s) of the week and a location and start a peaceful march by yourself or with a couple of your friends. Be consistent. More and more will join and it will eventually become huge.
Rolling Thunder
On February 10th, 2008 Perry911 says:
a Vets group organized a march on Washington last year and had 1/2 million motor bikes ride to the Capital, the co- founder John Holland is a Ron Paul supporter. The Vets do not like McCain, can we join forces for this years event? Imagine Ron addressing over 1 million Patriots at the Monument.
I've thought about all of this. I swear, when/if things get ugly, our vets, because of the honor they will always have will have to be the ones the news media cannot avoid. Most of us are nothing to the media, but a group of vets rolling in would definately get some attention. And what kind of soldier would stand up to one who went before them knowing that they are truthfully in the wrong? I know they have orders, but there too, they would have to turn around and join.
I'll march on Washington, but only if active duty United States Marines, backed by their oath to defend our Constitution, lead the way.
Let those in power try to invoke their "protest pens" and "free speech zones." Bush may have a well equipped army of Loyalist enforcers, but I'll stand behind a Constitutional Marine any day.
...are you willing to march behind other members of the military? ;) You do realize that we are not able to march in uniform, wear our uniforms in support of any candidate, or state that we are XX from XX service supporting Ron Paul in public? I'm more than willing to march in civvies. Anything else would probably not be taken well, and at worse could appear to be something like a coup. I will march in civvies, declaring that I am active duty military without specifying anything else. This is what I swore:
I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the "lawful command of his superior officer," 891.ART.91 (2), the "lawful order of a warrant officer", 892.ART.92 (1) the "lawful general order", 892.ART.92 (2) "lawful order". In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.
The Retrocon
Hope for America, Ron Paul for President in 2008!
(No slight intended for the other branches of the service. I chose the Marines for sake of brevity.)
We would not be marching for "a" candidate, but for the "only" candidate lawfully respecting our Constitutional principles.
And I would insist the respective uniforms of those leading the march be proudly worn. If I can't stand behind someone in a US uniform bravely defending the ideals of this country, then it's time I start viewing the uniform as simply a symbol of taking orders, a shallow symbol coveted by all dictators throughout history.
I'd like to believe soldiers in the country that gave birth to the idea of government for "the people," rather than for "the rulers," would stand heads above the rest.
...but the semantics of that argument ("We would not be marching for "a" candidate, but for the "only" candidate lawfully respecting our Constitutional principles) would not save me from the heap of trouble that would bury me (and by default, my family).
That being said, any other active military or lawyers with experience in this type of thing have any advice?
The Retrocon
Hope for America, Ron Paul for President in 2008!
There's always an aura of hostility that surrounds party conventions. I think that we should stay away from both conventions and do it on a different day in Washington and in simultaneous cities, in silence.
Lets deliver our tax filings in person, April 15th Washington DC
Where Liberty is, There is my Country - Ben Franklin
i dream of it everyday.
i dream of it everyday.
still hoping it will be inauguration day.
Re:
Great idea!
I have proposed a unison of
I have proposed a unison of meetups within each state to join together forming hopefully thousands to join in one city and march in that state ..
I will try it for new york but i shall be posting this on the national meetup group
Uh.
I hate to ruin anyones idealist view of their Federal government, but main difference between the our government and the former Sino-Soviet bloc is the Sino-Soviet bloc would shoot at their protestors, here they just ignore you. Money, however, talks in both worlds.
People "march on the capitol" all the time. What does it do? Nothing. Not a single thing. Hell, Congress can't even see you from where the National Park Service makes you all go.
Just ask the Peace and Freedom Now and those other groups. They march on the capitol about every four months and they only thing they do is waste my tax dollars having to set up police barricades and cause more traffic. You wonder why Senators and Representatives don't like you? It's because you're seen as a waste of their time; money plays.
Maybe, instead, if you created a lobbying organization and started throwing money around and "buying" Congressional positions, you'd get the results you wanted. C'mon, Ron Paul supporters raised $20 Million in a single quarter -$20 Million towards a lobbying organization is a lot of walking around money and you can get Congressmen to "see the light".
It's much easier to catch flies with honey than with vinegar. Buy your Congressman, that's how DC works. The rest are just annoyances.
Loud, angry crowds
would probably make much more of an impression at their state capitols. What would be cool is if we all did it all across the country on the same day. Pick a couple of huge issues we all agree on so the message isn't diluted, notify the media, and show up loud, proud, and ANGRY!
What happens if...
...we all spontaneously arrive and start walking to the steps of Congress, with copies of the Constitution?
If we don't ask for permission, and it is spontaneous, wouldn't that get some coverage?
The Retrocon
Hope for America, Ron Paul for President in 2008!
Have fun in jail
You get arrested. The DC Metro Riot Control Squad that is on standby comes in, sprays you down with tear gas, and loads you all onto buses.
doesnt talking about it negate the spontenanity.
ron paul 2008
Catch 22
Retrocon sights his military oath:
I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God
What happens when the enemy of the Constitution IS THE PRESIDENT? Does one still "obey the orders of the President"?
Have you considered this conundrum, Retrocon? I'm just curious about your thoughts.
i think this is where we are at.
ron paul 2008
Of course I have!
This is something that I think about every day.
The Retrocon
Hope for America, Ron Paul for President in 2008!
No doubt.
I once had a discussion with my son (82nd Airborne, MI) about how the military would react if the populace had finally had enough and rose up to throw off the corrupt government. It was an interesting conversation. I'm sure he occasionally has reason to worry about his mother;)
Allow me.. Key phrase in
Allow me..
Key phrase in this context is "I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same (the Constitution)"
It doesn't say the same about the President, specifically to remove the President from obtaining the true faith and allegiance the Constitution gets in the oath.
CF
Actually...
...the phrase that matters most is "and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice"
We are ordered not to wear our uniforms to political rallies by regulation. Not sure how it would play out if military in uniform decided to rally for the Constitution of the United States vs. a specific candidate. Those might be semantics that would work to prevent demotion or other punishments.
The Retrocon
Hope for America, Ron Paul for President in 2008!
Well deduced, Watson.
Well deduced, Watson.
It would have to be a massive amount...
...of people in uniform. Retirees, veterans, etc. Maybe by sheer dint of numbers we could avoid being singled out and punished so easily?
The Retrocon
Hope for America, Ron Paul for President in 2008!
March on Washington
I think it is a great idea. I am one of hose people that have never seen any McCain supporters although I have been to three debates in Florida, and I have never seen any signs or anything that would convince me that he is really winning this election. In my opinion you can recount the vote all you want, until I see affidavits of real people, I will believe the machines were rigged. It can not be done as easily in caucuses but Romney had peopled paid off to help him in that part of the process, like when he stuffed the straw polls ballots and was caught on film. . Why don't we have a mass DC rally, where all the candidates bring their support, like a shoot out at the OK Corral? McCaine can't bring living, breathing bodies, his supporters are rigged computer tallies. Lets March on Washington and see who has the real support of the people!
Revolution March (April 2008)
http://www.revolutionmarc...
The answer is yes:)
Expect to feel much better - watch this video:
http://youtube.com/watch?...
--------------------------
Conscious Co Creation Now
APRIL 15th
Forget about going to the post office, let's MEETUP in DC!
Where Liberty is, There is my Country - Ben Franklin
You may be right, but,
When we are spread out doing different things to help Dr. Paul get convention delegates we are nearly impossible to pin down and stop.
When we all gather together and set up one place and one time "they" can discredit us.
Do you honestly think the media would give us a fair shake?
They might just twist it against us.
We need to become delegates. Or help someone else become a delegate. Give them some dough so they can get to the party convention etc.
I think the sentiment of the march is beautiful, but, our effort is clearly defined now. Be a delegate or find one and help. It really isn't in the hands of the media now.
If you have been studying the posts here and at RPF you will find that a TV ad means very little to the delegate process. What I am concluding, and I may be wrong, is that a "big media splash" really won't help win at the convention in Minneapolis.
We all became to "media vote count centric" in our thinking. We are now "delegate count centric" as this is how we control our destiny.
I just hate to think what the media and the powers that be would try to do to screw us up at a big rally.
Fox news will not be at my primary polling place. I WILL BE. Lastly, my state will have a covention that will define the delegates for Minneapolis.
That is where the bills will be paid.
Go ahead and start already.
If it's not too inconvenient, fix a time and day(s) of the week and a location and start a peaceful march by yourself or with a couple of your friends. Be consistent. More and more will join and it will eventually become huge.
Good Luck! I will also start my own.
Rolling Thunder
Rolling Thunder
On February 10th, 2008 Perry911 says:
a Vets group organized a march on Washington last year and had 1/2 million motor bikes ride to the Capital, the co- founder John Holland is a Ron Paul supporter. The Vets do not like McCain, can we join forces for this years event? Imagine Ron addressing over 1 million Patriots at the Monument.
YEAH!!!
I've thought about all of this. I swear, when/if things get ugly, our vets, because of the honor they will always have will have to be the ones the news media cannot avoid. Most of us are nothing to the media, but a group of vets rolling in would definately get some attention. And what kind of soldier would stand up to one who went before them knowing that they are truthfully in the wrong? I know they have orders, but there too, they would have to turn around and join.
I agree with a massive silent march...but
I think it would be great to have just one person at a time reciting the Constitution-all of it. And then let I signs do the talking for us.
I love the idea of a silent march
MUCH more effective than chanting and shouting. Remember Ghandi?
There should be simultaneous marches in larger cities the same day and hour for those who cannot make it to DC
It could even be a march against the Iraq war, with Ron Paul supporters organizing it.
Are you kidding?
My fondest dream is that hundreds of thousands of us show up at the steps of our state capitals and DC with pitchforks and torches:)
Pitchforks and torches -
Pitchforks and torches - that must be after they finally get rid of the 2nd Amendment (without following the Constitution, of course).
OK
you got me there;)
I'll stand behind the Marines
I'll march on Washington, but only if active duty United States Marines, backed by their oath to defend our Constitution, lead the way.
Let those in power try to invoke their "protest pens" and "free speech zones." Bush may have a well equipped army of Loyalist enforcers, but I'll stand behind a Constitutional Marine any day.
Well....
...are you willing to march behind other members of the military? ;) You do realize that we are not able to march in uniform, wear our uniforms in support of any candidate, or state that we are XX from XX service supporting Ron Paul in public? I'm more than willing to march in civvies. Anything else would probably not be taken well, and at worse could appear to be something like a coup. I will march in civvies, declaring that I am active duty military without specifying anything else. This is what I swore:
I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the "lawful command of his superior officer," 891.ART.91 (2), the "lawful order of a warrant officer", 892.ART.92 (1) the "lawful general order", 892.ART.92 (2) "lawful order". In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ. The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.
The Retrocon
Hope for America, Ron Paul for President in 2008!
march for the Constitution, march in uniform
(No slight intended for the other branches of the service. I chose the Marines for sake of brevity.)
We would not be marching for "a" candidate, but for the "only" candidate lawfully respecting our Constitutional principles.
And I would insist the respective uniforms of those leading the march be proudly worn. If I can't stand behind someone in a US uniform bravely defending the ideals of this country, then it's time I start viewing the uniform as simply a symbol of taking orders, a shallow symbol coveted by all dictators throughout history.
I'd like to believe soldiers in the country that gave birth to the idea of government for "the people," rather than for "the rulers," would stand heads above the rest.
I appreciate what you are saying...
...but the semantics of that argument ("We would not be marching for "a" candidate, but for the "only" candidate lawfully respecting our Constitutional principles) would not save me from the heap of trouble that would bury me (and by default, my family).
That being said, any other active military or lawyers with experience in this type of thing have any advice?
The Retrocon
Hope for America, Ron Paul for President in 2008!
LOOK at the AMAZING TURNOUT in ATLANTA
And their participation in the MLK parade!!! There are hundreds of them and they even had a float made of the BLIMP.
If all of us, from every meet-up, could go to DC and do this?? Imagine!
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Previously known as DCALIFANO
What about an enormous march
in St. Paul the day of the convention !?
Uh, I don't know
There's always an aura of hostility that surrounds party conventions. I think that we should stay away from both conventions and do it on a different day in Washington and in simultaneous cities, in silence.
http://www.ronpaulmarch.com/
http://www.ronpaulmarch.com/
The Marine who wrote To all of you From all of Me
mentioned an episode of V when they all gathered and just stood there silently - one huge mass force where SILENCE spoke UNITY -
Just imagine if thousands of us decended upon the capitol and just stood there as if to say "WE KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON AND WE WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK"
Maybe some signs or something - But I whether we speak or stand silent I think if this could be organized it would be great. I would go.
Previously known as DCALIFANO
We should all wear Ron Paul
We should all wear Ron Paul masks instead of Guy Fawkes masks ^.^ Can you imagine a silent army of Ron Pauls marching on Washington?
we should all wear those masks everywhere we go
scare people