Citizen Mccain's Panama Problem
There have been some posts on this topic already, but they are incomplete and the Mccain campaign, Wikipedia, and other sources have weaseled around it with a reference to a 1790 act of Congress defining foreign-born children of US citizens as natural-born, thus meeting to requirements to run for President.
I started digging into the Act of Congress that Mccain's campaign said got him around this (5th Congress, March 26th 1790), but found that this act was repealed by the same Congress, January 29th, 1795, RE-defining such children as just American citizens (not natural-born, as required for Pres. by the Constitution), and that this act was re-repealed April 14th, 1802 by the 6th Congress, keeping the same definition of foreign-born US citizens.
Unless someone can show me something I've missed (and I can find nothing anywhere referring to ANY other defense on this issue as of yet), Mccain is NOT a natural-born citizen of the United States and according to all applicable laws I've found, is NOT eligible to run for President. Links to these Acts of Congress:
What do you all think, and who do we take this to?
output
FULL ANALYSIS Thread on this with references
Please go to this Daily Paul thread on the FULL ANALYSIS of the Panamanchurian Candidate:
http://www.dailypaul.com/...
In a nutshell ('cause McInsane's a nut):
1) John McCain is a natural born Panamanian because
2) Panama was under lease by the USA as per the Teddy Roosevelt signed treaty ($10 Million in gold coin up front and $250k of same per year); NO PART of Panama or Canal Zone was ever ceded to US, and the Carter '77 treaty acknowledged it's sovereignty, so Panama always OUTSIDE of the USA.
3) Per US State Department regulations, children born on US Military Bases ARE NOT automatic citizens (prevents pregnant enemy combatants from giving birth to anchor babies),
4) the 1952 INA act naturalized John McCain (age 16) due to him being born in the Canal Zone. NOTE: This only made him a US citizen
5) The 14th Amendment clearly specifies TWO types of US citizens: "born in" or "naturalized in" the United States. These are mutually exclusive.
If you are not OUTRAGED, you're not paying attention!
Isn't this a black/white issue? If it says natural-born and he
Isn't this a black/white issue? If it says natural-born and he is NOT natural-born, is he therefore ineligible and should it not be exposed?
I'm confused obviously =(
__________________________
*** God bless Ron Paul ***
* Ron Paul For President *
Actually,
you are not confused at all. I think it really is that simple.
From this article:
http://www.opednews.com/m...
Some will attempt to argue the point that U.S. military bases are under the jurisdiction of the United States and the fourteenth amendment mentions that. The fourteenth amendment states, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." The word "and" means "as well as" being born in the United States. Being born only under the jurisdiction of the United States, as some misguided military people would like to imagine, is not good enough. Some would like to believe that because the "United States" has a Status of Forces Agreement with a foreign government that military bases are somehow "sovereign" U.S. territory. If you murder a Panamanian citizen in Oregon you will be arrested by Oregon police, go through the Oregon courts and be imprisoned in Oregon, and now some other state maybe, but still within the U.S. If you murder a Panamanian citizen on a U.S. military base in Panama you will be arrested by Panamanian police, go through the Panamanian courts and be imprisoned in Panama. So much for "sovereignty."
At the top of the article it also states:
It's a common misunderstanding that the [Panama Canal] zone was a U.S. territory - in fact, the U.S. had lease rights, but not territorial rights.
You people are missing the
You people are missing the point of his post.
There is a clear difference between a US citizen and a natural born US citizen.
I will try and get some calrity for everyone but from what i have seen thus far the poster may have a point that we should exercise.
"Naturalized" means APPLIED for citizenship
It's not about whether Congress defines "citizen" or not. Congress defines EVERY citizenship. Ron Paul wants to say that children of illegal immigrants are NOT citizens.
Somebody who was a citizen by virtue of their birth (such as because their parents were US citizens or they were born on US soil) is a natural-born citizen.
Somebody who has to apply later in life for citizenship because they immigrated to the US from another country is a naturalized citizen.
The end.
This is a distraction that makes RP look bad.
Although
there are lots of reasons why a person should never vote for McCain; maybe this is how we can beat a RIGGED election?
Or maybe this is utter fantasy
This is distracting us from the real mission of defeating his policies.
He was a citizen at the MOMENT of his birth. Thus he's a natural-born citizen. The end.
There's nothing more there. That's all it takes to be President.
Somebody who applied for citizenship later in life (Arnold Schwarzenegger) is NOT eligible.
Somebody who was a citizen at the MOMENT of his birth (John McCain) is eligible.
You are being intentionally dense if you can't see the difference, and distracting this website away from the REAL issues.
this is what i know,
I have a friend who once worked at an embassy. From what he told me, it is considered, U.S. soil and that is why they defend it with there lives. That is why if you get in trouble in another country people tend to go to there embassy to get away from there laws and get diplomatic immunity. So, technically, he is still a U.S. citizen.
The Panama Canal zone was
The Panama Canal zone was not an embassy. It was not even a territory. The Panama Canal zone was a lease agreement. Just wanted to point that out.
already solved this one
he is considered naturalized from the two citizens parents...old case...someone brought up this line many, many weeks ago.
Naturalized and natural-born
Naturalized and natural-born are two separate paths toward citizenship. The Constitution mandates that only natural-born citizens are eligible to be the President or Vice-President.
You need to read the whole
You need to read the whole post. They got around this with the 1790 act, but that act was repealed. He's just a citizen, not natural-born according to congress 1795 and 1802. Please double-check my work, but I can't find anything to the contrary unless there was some new law passed since then.
citizenship
Thank you Praetorius, please stay on this.I'm quite sure you are correct.There are many other facts that support your position. Don't let the naysayers prevail.
I was born in another country. I am now a citizen.
Can I be president of the United States?
"He who exercises government by means of his virtue may be compared to the north polar star, which keeps its place and all the stars turn towards it." Confucius
No,
because you are not "natural born", not born in one of the (united) States.
A Naturalized citizen and a Natural-Born citizen are two different things.
A territory is not a State. A ship is not a State. A canal zone or a naval base are not States - therefore not one of these united States.
I've gone over this and over this as well - I can't find any interepretation of Article II Section 1 that allows McCain to be president, except that Naturalization Act of 1790, which was repealed.
Yes
If your parents were American.. I'm the same deal... dual-national. That didn't stop me from seving in the USAF.. didn't stop me from holding a TS/SCI/SBI clearance...
It's a fight between the rule of law and the color of law.. so is a non-issue for McCain.
You're a citizen under these
You're a citizen under these acts of congress, then, but not natural-born
EVERY citizen is a citizen by virtue of an act of Congress
You are NOT automatically a citizen under the Constitution just because you were born on US soil. Ron Paul wants to REPEAL the act of Congress that makes citizens out of the children of illegal immigrants born on US soil.
Congress writes EVERY citizenship law.
There's not some separate definition of citizenship in the Constitution. If Congress says that everyone born to military members is a citizen at birth then all children of military members will be NATURAL-BORN citizens.
You are reading way too much into this. Get some sunlight.
Citizen
Slapshot if what you say is true (congress writes EVERY citizenship law ),why did congress have to get the states permission for the 14th amend. I believe the constition gives congress legislative jurisdiction over naturalization not over citizenship.
Not to get too sidetracked but ...
I did some research online about the 14th amendment. It's original intent was only to grant U.S. citizenship to legal citizens of territories when they joined the United States as a state. It was not to grant citizenship to children born in the United States to parents that were not legal citizens. Apparently the courts mucked things up again by interpreting the 14th amendment to grant citizenship to those born in the U.S. toparents who are illegal aliens.
Keep this going
There has to be a way to get rid of this guy.
Petty
Fighting over technicalities like this is just petty, and does not serve the cause of liberty even if you succeed. It only serves to show others how you're just another unprincipled win-at-any-cost animal.
Let's just say...
... if Dr.Paul was born in Panama he would have been ruled out of he campaign from day one by the GOP Politburo. Nothing petty about this...
I don't think the Constitution is a technicality
I don't think the Constitution is a technicality - get real the law is the law and its never went to the Supreme Court but I can assure you it will if McCain was to win over Hillary or Obama.
Ever heard of obeying
the rule of law? If this is accurate, then he needs to be fully exposed.
Please help me make sure
Please help me make sure it's accurate and that there's not anything else that came later that I'm missing. Thanks!
It's been around forever, but is a non-issue
For instance, I was born in Canada, two American parents, they were non-military. I'm an American citizen (technically dual-national). I've a daughter born in Germany (dual-national) who is a citizen.. born of two American citizens. I would love for it to be different, but look at the spirit of the law... if two Amercans lived on the moon and bred, a child is born.. is the child Lunar or American?... American, of course.. you can't take the American out of the parents.. ;P~
See my above responses and
See my above responses and the acts of congress, I'm not able to find any way around this. Citizen, yes. Natural-born and eligible? No
Ok. Now what?
What are you going to do with the information. It has been proven that the 16th and 17th admendments were not properly ratified, but yet nothing is done to change it. Even RP talks about repealing the 16th amendment which isn't even legally part of the constitution.
Already emailed the
Already emailed the Washington Post in response to an old article of theirs in which the Mccain team referenced the repealed 1790 act in his defense
Ha ha slapshot is a McCain supporter
Ha ha slapshot is a McCain supporter, I have watched his posts anytime you dog McCain he replies.
Actually I do think McCain will have a problem with this issue if he were to win a general election against Hillary or Obama.
OH BOY...I think I'll email
OH BOY...I think I'll email Hillary and Obama RIGHT NOW to see what they think!
This has been brought up countless times
And thoroughly refuted as fantasy each and every time.
He was born to TWO U.S. citizen parents. Thus, he was a citizen the moment he was born. Natural-born citizen. The end.
That's all there is to it.
The rule is so that people like Arnold Schwarzenegger, who applied for citizenship later in life, can't be President. It has NOTHING to do with John McCain.
This is just daydreaming. It'd be nice, but it's just not the case.
I don't believe this is "thoroughly refuted"
If it were all fantasy why do US military personnel that were born in Panama overwhelmingly believe that they can never be President? Here are 3 quotes from different 'zonians'
"When we were growing up, those (like me) born in the former American Canal Zone always thought none of us could be President for this very reason."
"I was born in the Panama Canal Zone in Gorgas Hospital (US Army). As I understand the law, the fact that I was born outside of the US makes me ineligible to serve as the Commander in Chief."
"Not only is he not a natural born US citizen as required by the Constitution. But, under Panamanian law, he is a Citizen of Panama and thus hold dual citizenship which is exactly what the founding fathers where trying to avoid."
I think maybe this law should be changed now in our day of easy travel, however it hasn't been. An inconvenient law is still a law. If it is no longer relevant to our life today, it should be changed----not simply ignored.
Slapshot...look at the links
Slapshot...look at the links for the reports of Congress. They repealed the act defining the children of citizens as naturally-born. He's just a citizen, like Ahnold. Nothing more. UNLESS there's something I've missed, which is why I'm asking people to check my work AND POST REFERENCES so we can be sure of the truth
From the original Washington Post article, if it clarifies
"But is he constitutionally qualified to become president? McCain was indeed born in the Canal Zone, and Article II of the Constitution plainly states that "no person except a natural born Citizen... shall be eligible to the Office of President."
Article II of the Constitution (FindLaw Internet Legal Resources)
Some might define the term "natural-born citizen" as one who was born on United States soil. But the First Congress, on March 26, 1790, approved an act that declared, "The children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural-born citizens of the United States." That would seem to include McCain, whose parents were both citizens and whose father was a Navy officer stationed at the U.S. naval base in Panama at the time of John's birth in 1936. "
The act they reference was repealed by the two following acts. What have I missed? If Mccain's eligible, why isn't Arnold since they're both only CITIZENS, and not naturally-born according to these acts? Please clarify with verifiable information and not just repetition or disregarding the acts clarifying this