China topic censored here.
Hi freedom lovers.
I believe one of the key tenets of Dr Paul's campaign is the issue of freedom.
But I guess enough of you believe that includes the freedom to silence anybody that you don't agree with.
We had an interesting thread running for about 5 hours that was discussing America's relationship with China; and how that related to Dr Paul's policies. There were about 50 posts.
Some people were writing from their experiences in the country others drew their information from other sources.
Very little profanity. Quite a few in depth opinions.
Then gone.
WTF.
Some people here sure don't practise what they preach.
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Yeah,
I was talking to someone from Panama today and the guy told me China owns the Panama Canal! What the hell!
They want to spend USD
China is getting very nervous about their huge reserves of USD.
They are very aware that a dollar crash is likely and want to spend them before they devalue even more.
How dare they stop propping up the US dollar.
Commies!!!
iF THEY WOULD STOP GIVING US $ WE COULD END THE WAR
BUT THEY WONT BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THEM F-ING COMMIES ARE BUYING OUR COUNTRY OUT FROM UNDER US AT AN EXPONENTIAL RATE FOR PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR IT IS CALLED A FIRESALE AND GEORGEWBUSH IS DOING IT AGAIN JUST LIKE THE SAVINGS AND LOAN DEAL A HUGE SCAM ! BOY I CANT WAIT TO SEE HIS NEXT SCAM ? Gold Oil Drugs is who they worship!
Let's nuke em
That would teach the Commies not to give us $.
Who do the think they are? Giving us $!!
They deserve everything they get.
THEY ARE F-ING COMMUNISTS WHATS TO LIKE? F EM
I CARE THAT YOU WILLFULLY IGNORANT PEOPLE WILL NOT STOP KILLING AMERICA BY BUYING POISON GOOD FROM A COUNTRY THAT HAS NO HUMAN RIGHTS THEY PUT LEAD PAINT IN OUR CHILDRENS TOYS THEY HAVE THE MOBILE DEATH TRUCKS CONCENTRATION CAMPS ORGAN THIEF RINGS RUN BY THE GOVERNMENT OR WHAT EVER THEY CALL THEMSELFS?THEY ARE THE WORST COUNTRY IN TERMS OF MURDERING NEXT TO THE USA THE PRC HAS KILLED THE 2ND MOST PEOPLE EVER IN HISTORY AS A WHOLE NEXT TO THE USA (INDIANS!) WE MAKE HITLER LOOK LIKE AN ANGEL! WE MUST SEE THE TRUTH OR WE CAN NOT MOVE ON ALL THE STAGED WARS BY THE BANKERS!
CHINA,USA,UN,WTO,AND THE WAY IT LOOKS LIKE OPEC AS OF LATELY?ARE ALL GETTING THE ORDERS FROM THE NEW WORLD ORDER AKA THE BANKERS AKA THE CROWN AKA 13 FAMILIES AKA THE ILLUMINATTI AKA THE ROBBER BARONS AKA THE
****************************R O T H S C H I L D S ******************************
Right on Bro
Everything you say is true.
But you forgot about psyops.
They are putting microchips in everybodys pet so that they can read your mind!!!
i lived in china for 5 years
No one ever censored my email. We send stuff to china by email all the time now.
There were some websites I could not access.
Some were blocked on the US side because the USA govt
blocked some IP addresses.
I am sorry my other post is gone now.
I dont think I could repeat it.
China v America on Human Rights
Here are two viewpoints.
US Department of State's 2006 Country Reports on Human Rights Practices
World
http://www.state.gov/g/dr...
China in particular
http://www.state.gov/g/dr...
China's State Council : The Human Rights Record of the United States in 2006
http://www.globalresearch...
I don't think RP misunderstands China...
He's never called them an enemy (that I can recall), but I have heard him say a number of times that they are a threat to us, in that we support their economy more than our own and they are financially way better off than us. So much so, that they have financed our illegal occupation of Iraq and they have bailed out many companies that are suffering from the monetary problems this war has caused for our dollar. I think he's right on the money.
RP's take on China is fine.
He probably hasn't called them an enemy. Before the "Does RP Misunderstand China?" thread was deleted there were many interesting posts. One of them had a link to RP's speeches and I read in depth his position on China. Just what you'd expect from him: insightful, compassionate, reasoned, clear.
IMHO We only support their economy to the extent that we buy the products they offer to sell us.
As a nation China is better off than the US in some ways but not in others. Their standard of living and average income is still way below the US. They don't have the same legal protections for their individual citizens, but most people are pretty happy and the government and police are usually very light handed.
They are very protective of their currency and are hesitant to throw it open to the vagaries of the international money markets. This meant that they were not set back like Thailand and Indonesia by the Asian meltdown, back around 1999 I think.
So they pegged their money (it is called RMB - renminbi - or CNY - Chinese yuan - they are the same) to the US Dollar.
By tradition and nature Chinese are savers. So as they set about to get rich they saved a lot of money, and they saved it in USD. You can't just leave them in a room or a bank account so they bought Tbills and other US government bonds. This is a very conservative investment strategy.
So they didn't directly fund the Iraq war. They were just cautiously investing their savings.
For the last couple of years many people have been predicting a crash for the USD. This presents a serious problem for the Chinese because they have most of their national savings in USD. The trouble was they had so many Dollars that, if they started selling them, other countries would join in and cause a run on the dollar that would seriously hurt the value of China's savings.
So they started another strategy. They decided to gently start buying assets with the money before it lost value. This could be presented to the world as a policy change rather than a loss in confidence in the dollar.
Another problem popped up. America effectively said "Your dollars are no good here" and refused to let them buy companies and resources in the US for "security" reasons.
They haven't actively bailed out companies as an angel investor, they just want to spend down their dollars while they still retain some value.
Up until early last year the Fed Reserve would publish regular reports of how much new money they printed. When they stopped publishing that figure the Chinese knew for sure they had to devise a strategy to get out of the USD quickly
China is using diplomacy and financial skills to secure its energy needs. It is proving far more effective than than America's war strategy. But there is much less personal money in that peaceful strategy for China's leaders than there is for Bush, Cheney and Co in America's war strategy.
I suspect that China's top leaders are much more interested in the welfare of China and its people than George and his cronies are interested in America's.
Ron Paul as president would be excellent for America and good for China too.
they chinese censor
the chinese censor everything, my friend lives there and they read her emails before she can and they even delete things out of it....maybe they are watching
**That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them
how long ago?
ive been here awhile tonight and havent seen it.
ron paul 2008
Flagged off about 8 hrs ago
8 hours
It seems pretty lame that
It seems pretty lame that they would do that. How can we preach freedom but not practice it ourselves. It sounds more like a Bush ploy!
safariman
You misused the term, "free market". You should have said, "free trade".
These are not synonyms. The free market moves through the Invisible Hand, billions of unregulated free-will individual transactions. Free trade, however, is engineered, by government. That's two orders of magnitude different, even before you consider the fascist aspect of corporations.
Hopefully you've since read the post from realistUSMC and realized the error of your way.
-0-
LawfulGov.Org
Your Nexus to the Freedom Movement
More than likely your thread
More than likely your thread on China made any kind of sense at all, had valid points, was relatively civil in nature and got some people to start thinking.
It probably had something that could help promote RP, or at the least get people to consider things they had never thought of before.
That's why it is gone. It's a common occurrance here lately.
CF -- that's partially true
but John kept posting additional threads having to do with Ron Paul's supposed misunderstanding of China or labelling China as an enemy. It seemed to me he's been pressing the point for some reason I don't understand. In fact, he at one point stated he found a speech or paper from RP describing his view of China. JH then stated he agreed with it 100%, but still kept pressing this issue. It became like beating a dead horse, and for what purpose?
However, I participated in the discussion and had no interest or desire to flag it. There were legitimate points to be made. The threads were indeed disposed of through flagging.
I agree with you that the only way this flagging system would really work, if necessary at all, would be to assign a threshold of flags at which point a moderator looks at it and decides a course of action. I also agree with you that too many "false flags" should entail loss of privileges to those individuals.
Sharehouse, a Canadian stock board I also participate in, has the same sort of function for reporting spammers or offensive language and such. As a flagger, I am graded on whether they agree with me or not and if my rating becomes negative, I am suspended for a period of time.
So, the entire issue of John Haigh's China threads is a bit of this and a bit of that. Haigh is pushing this subject to hard, yet his threads were incorrectly deleted.
My take, anyway.
Why I pushed it
Before last night I was mostly a lurker here. I came to this forum a couple of times a day to update myself on all things related to Dr Paul.
Then yesterday I ran across an article on another site with an analysis of Romney's withdrawl speech that pointed out how dangerous he is and why we shouldn't feel that he is retreating to private life and can be forgotten.
I started my first ever new topic with a link to the speech analysis and the subject line "never give up."
Before I posted it I added a PS about China-US relations.
Here is the text:
"PS. Don't buy into the mainstream media hoax that China is your enemy and the people are horribly repressed.
It has some egregious excesses in its recent past, but nowadays most people enjoy considerably more personal freedom than Americans do at home.
In fact the recent economic boom here has been caused by the government following a line very similar to that suggested by Ron Paul. It has largely gotten out of peoples' lives. Small government - minimum inteference - very little corporate welfare - low taxes for ordinary people.
Top international creditor nation: China.
Top international debtor nation: America.
Champion nation at imprisoning its own people: America. Over 700/100,000. (Russia comes in a distant second)
China is in the middle of the pack along with countries like Canada, Australia and France with about 120/100,000.
In terms of progress, China is whipping America's ass. And it is largely because many of its policies come from the Ron Paul playbook.
Paulites - RESTORE AMERICA. NEVER GIVE UP!"
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I came back a while later to see if there were any comments. I was wondering if other people thought Romney was an ongoing threat. The guy makes my skin crawl. I'll never forget the video footage of him and the wheelchair bound guy who needs medical marihuana.
One comment:
"China is runnign the numbers on there people's bruised backs! Not because of Ron Paul-omics."
It could have been straight from the mouth of Bill O'Rielly!
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I replied:
"Why do you say that?
On February 12th, 2008 John_Haigh says:
Have you been there recently?
Or are you getting your information from the same place people got (or didn't get) their information about Dr Paul; the MSM.
We all know how clever it is to believe them, don't we?"
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I believe that a large proportion of Paulites are independent-thinking, moral and personally-influential people. I am also apalled by the widely held view in America that China is an evil rogue state and a natural enemy and threat to America and World Peace.
In an attempt to generate more interest, I provocatively edited the subject line of my post to read, "Is Dr Paul wrong about China?"
Minutes later it had disappeared.
I was stunned. So I posted another topic with a similar headline. I then set myself the task of replying to comments I disagreed with.
That thread generated quite a lot of comments, some very good information and some original analysis. Then it disappeared.
I think flagging it was an act of vandalism. I also think it is useful to shine some light on the nature of US-China relations.
I sent an email to Michael Nystrom, the site's founder, but got an automatically generated reply that the site had now become too big for him to read or answer his emails. Fair enough.
Many Americans have bought the MSM story that China is a dangerous, evil, Commie empire with plans for world domination through military means.
Enough book burners visit this site to ensure that there can't be a sustained discussion and investigation of that belief.
I presume that by posting this reply I have ensured that this thread will also soon disappear.
WTF is foul language.
WTF is foul language.
It's how chickens talk.
___________________________
There's no sheep here, there's wolves here, questioning our nation's government.
Former United States Marine
Patriot
For Ron Paul
That'd be fowl language, silly
Don't make me peck out another response.
Please tell me, why are you here?
I can understand your concern about Chinese and Islamic motives.
I think I'm patriotic, but again, so do most people.
I do think that in the long run, all nations have to live within their means. Neither Ron Paul nor I think we're doing it now. I don't think you can defy the law of gravity forever.
I've read Sun Tzu too, and Confucius. They make a lot of good sense.
Aren't most of us challenging some aspect of our nation's current behavior? Isn't that why we have debates and elections?
So, if I, or other posters here are chickens? sheep? and if you want to fight soon? OK, I understand. I don't agree! But surely any other candidate will get you into a fight before Ron Paul.
What are you doing here?
Tidbit on China
Why am I the only one that remembers the story not so many years back about China's continuation of war with America by non-military means?
Here's a little snippet from some reading you might find interesting:
The Beijing government understands this with such clarity that one can only admire the intellectual integrity of Chinese strategic thinking. Confronted with integrated, well-designed challenges from China in the economic, financial, diplomatic and — least important for now — military spheres, our response, to the extent that we may claim one, has been piecemeal, intermittent, inept and weak. Brilliantly, the Chinese have managed to harness the greed of influential elements within our own business community to prevent the implementation of policies by Washington that might reduce China's artificial trade advantages and limit our own self-inflicted vulnerabilities. By allowing a relative handful of American corporations to grow rich, the Chinese have paralyzed our government's ability to defend our workers, our industries and our economy. We have reached the point where lobbying veers into treason.
The Chinese view our relationship as a war conducted through nonmilitary means. Under such advantageous economic conditions, they are perfectly happy to refrain from shooting.
Defense contractors, as well as desperate generals and admirals, warn of a military confrontation with China. But why on earth would China want one when Beijing is gaining all it needs through far less painful means? Certainly, countries have a way of blundering into war — but China would much prefer to avoid a violent conflict with the U.S. Why fight us, when we make a gift of all that Beijing seeks through our tolerance for rigged exchange rates, our acceptance of the dumping of manufactured products, our refusal to live up to our rhetoric about human rights, our rejection of serious policies to protect our intellectual property and copyrights — and our outright gifts of technology?
This is the Sun Tzu that we cite so glibly yet fail to understand.
The Islamist threat is even fiercer — far fiercer — than China when it comes to exploiting policy as a continuation of war with other means. Saudi Arabia, for example, has engaged in a merciless religious war against the West for more than three decades, yet it has not only done so while convincing our national leaders, Republican and Democrat, that we're "friends," but has managed to gain the protection of America's military on the cheap, even as it refuses meaningful cooperation with our forces. To preserve the profits of a handful of multinational oil companies, we protect a repellent, throwback regime that willfully created Osama bin Laden and his ilk. In country after country, I personally witnessed how Saudi money is used to spread anti-Western hatred (and to divide local societies), while America's taxpayers fund a military prostituted to the defense of the degenerate House of Saud.
If you could muster the attention span to read all that, click here for the whole thing.
http://www.armedforcesjou...
___________________________
There's no sheep here, there's wolves here, questioning our nation's government.
Former United States Marine
Patriot
For Ron Paul
Problem With China
is that they have ulterior motives. They want conquest. They will eschew the profit motive for a future opportunity to conquer. They are not doing things for their economic benefit, they are doing things to bring us down. They don't care if their citizens suffer to accomplish their goals. They use them for slave labor now, and force them to kill their babies. They are not motivated by normal economic and human motivations. They are more difficult to deal with than normal countries, even those with different types of governments.
Granted, we created the China that exists today with our actions since WWII. We created them and have sustained them with money and technology. Now we are letting them be our banker. But how they got where they're at no longer matters.What matters is what do we do about it now? They are fully intent on destroying us economically or militarily, with the complicity of our current traitorous gov't.
A policy on non-intervention will eventually be best for a country just concerned with themselves (like Iraq), but it won't work against a country like China.
Ulterior motives?
China is big, rich, and powerful.
They are an economic competitor as well as a current supporter. I think we can only expect more of the same.
Lots disagree with their family planning policy. But with a slow growing population, they're getting rich faster, and giving the children they have more love and education. It also reduces the number of young people (still huge) which should somewhat diminish their desire to go to war.
Can't we just find common ground and get along? And compete only in the sense of free market?
It seems to me that our economic irresponsibility, and our wastage of national resources can destroy us economically. That will diminish us militarily. You can hardly blame that on China.
Of course that will leave them in the cat bird seat. And you'll hardly be able to intervene.
I hope Paulists are thinking of a less interventionist foreign policy, and more strength at home.
Can't we just find common ground and get along?
We could, they won't. That's the problem. They are not just an economic competitor, they have stated America is their main enemy and several of their military leaders have openly spoken of preparing for a military conquest.
We're mistaken if we think everybody else has pure, normal motives. Some governments are evil.
Your previous post
seemed fine to me. I posted a response.
Apparently we have some book burners in the house.
Thanks for letting me know
I thought this was a great thread. It was a chance to show that China is doing well largely by virtue of good economic freedom. And to clear up misconceptions of people mostly steeped in MSM through no fault of their own.
It made clear that RP was the kind of President who would prevent problems with China.
I saw nothing detrimental in the post.
If we censor this, we're worse than MSM, and I'm going to tune out of this website.
It was censored twice
I don't think we should leave the forum. It's a great tool for rallying support and discussing tactics.
Perhaps it should go to moderators.
Someone else suggested giving members a flag limit so that they can't get stuff censored too often.
BTW safariman, a very accurate summary of the deleted thread
I'm glad to have a forum, but...
If it's not malicious, or anti Paul it should not be deleted.
Aren't we supposed to be Libertarians? Believers in less government and more liberty? Censorship is the opposite.
I agree with you...
and I think you should read my post on Trolling and Flagging... oh but they got it deleted too.
So, we must contact Manny and tell him this is becomming a Personality Cult where Ron Paul can do no wrong, nor can the Campaign, nor can the Revolution.
The bottomline is Manny needs to delete the automatic Flagging Feature.
Treg
I AGREE!! I'm sick of the PaulBOTS who refuse a reasoned debate
For example, when some of us warned that the MLK money bomb was too divisive on many grounds - they all shot us down as "Trolls". Well, guess who was right?
And now, with this march on Washington - my post was totally positive, yet critical based on FACTS - too many people on the West Coast just CANNOT get to DC - for time and money reasons.
But, for pointing this out I am a "Troll" and anyone who will not go "Doesn't really support Paul - because there is NO excuse - EVERYONE can afford to get there."
This lacks total logic. The fact is not everyone can - even if they DO want to.
Mark my words - the Washington March will BOMB! Yet, if we March in EVERY state on one day we'd get TONS of press from the local media (because the DC media will ignore us).
I may be a vegetarian, but I'll defend to the death my right to eat pork!
dude, you have to watch your
dude, you have to watch your attitude and stop hating on the doctor. somebody delete this thread...it's blasphemy.
flag it too.
You know those muslim
You know those muslim clerics in Saudi Arabia that go around in shopping malls and other public places and beat people with special sticks if they are being "worldly".
You remind me of them.
=)
You know...Chill...
No Flagging, ... blasphemy ? Write 10 paragraphs why its blasphemy....prove your point or stop the flagging and name calling.
LMAO!
And I'm not even sure I was supposed to?... :O)
The saddest thing
is that there were quite a few arguements and counter arguements on a subject where most people have been grossly misinformed by the MSM.
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There wasn't any real criticism of Dr Paul, his policies or his views.
The clincher both times was mentioning that America is the world's largest debtor nation and China has the world's largest foreign reserves.
Plus America is the world champ at imprisoning its own people: over 700/100,000 (Russia comes a distant second) While China is in the middle of the pack with Canada, France and Australia with about 120/100,000.
I should apologise. I guess that is offensive to red blooded, "My Country Right or Wrong" Americans.
Within minutes of posting that info the topic was gone.
That's a broad generalization
If it was active for five hours, it would seem to prove the opposite. Anyway, it isn't fair.
IMissLiberty
How does it work?
Do you know what the criteria are for a topic being deleted here?
Is it number of Flagged As Offensive; or is there a moderator.
Some of the posts were about Kool Aid drinkers. Is that a reference to Jonesian style followers who can't bear to read anything that regards "The Great Leader" as being less than omniscient? North Korea is like that.
One interesting thing was that some posters gave references to sites that increased my already enormous respect for Ron Paul.
7 flags needed...
...to delete.