UPDATED***When is the time to use our second amendment rights against tyranny? Curious***
Posted March 5th, 2008 by Americandodo
output
When do we say enough is enough? I tell you what, with all I see on MSM, I am about ready to say enough is enough. However, I am not a mindless trigger happy idiot, (so I will not "jump the gun" no pun intended,) but when do we push back? We keep getting pushed and pushed, but when did our founding fathers intend us to use our second amendment rights to fight tyranny? How bad must it get? I mean if something is not changed, then will we be to late? I really just want your input on this. I want us to put our heads together, and brainstorm what our forefathers intended on second amendment rights. I almost feel that we should have acted sooner, but then again, ???? Gunfire does not have to ring out to prove a point, but a massive show of arms can make quite a statement.
Let me know how you feel, and don't worry, I am not some psycho who is gonna go shooting people at random, I am just wanting to know if people at least think about this stuff as I do?
*updated*
I just put this post up here for shock value more than anything. If you can understand my intent, then you will know I am not for shooting people. I just wanted to know how our forefathers intended this sort of thing to be handled? I am not looking to form a mob, I do not want violence at all! Peaceful ways need to be tried first.....but let us not be weak if the peaceful ways do not work. I just wanted to know more than anything..............Is America still land of the free, and home of the brave?
Thanks for all the great comments!!! I believe most of us agree on this issue, and if/ when the time comes (I hope it never comes) we are ready to stand, and protect freedom at all cost. I hope to reply to some comments soon, I have been super busy pulling double shifts where I work...........Anyhow, I thank you, and God bless you all!!!
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To paraphrase one of our forefathers...
you use the second amendment when they try to take it away. Not before.
When they come to get your guns, for example.
To all below: Guns don't work in the long run anyway
Fortune Favors the Bold
He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.
Very true!!!
Yes, violence solves nothing in the long run. We must try to be heard first, and in only a last resort, and I mean last resort, should we protect ourselves through use of arms. However, I will always feel better knowing I have that freedom to bear arms if needed.
Well,
what sucks is that I think DC has a zero gun policy or something like that. So they are prepared, and plus, to arrest or take in a politician is unlikely, they have immunity like you wouldn't believe. I'd say it would be easier to address the politicians outside there work area and announce to them to ship up or ship out!!!! Julius Caesar was killed by the Senators of Rome when he didn't perform to there standards, we should have a system to remove politicians when they ignore the people they are elected to represent. Come on people, the first revolution was started because of taxes, which were nothing compared to the taxes we pay today, so.............I wonder why we haven't done anything as a nation to fix our crooked representatives!
as soon as you can design a bullet
to reach 50,000+ feet, otherwise, the gps-computer guided bunker buster will eat you up, and that's a fact...:-) Let's try the old fashioned way and swing congress and the Senate our way first.
How? First of all, become a delegate. It aint over till the fat lady sings, so don't give up on RP and or the Revolution...
Secondly, check the voting records of your congressman and Senators. If they do not line up with the Constitution, have them recalled or impeached, or possible class action lawsuit against them. Also, anyone you know who has such great influence in politics and foreign policy such as David Rockerfeller, who is against our national sovereignty, get an arrest warrant for (treason)...
Third, work with those such as Jim Forsythe (NH), Murray Sabrin (NJ), Richard Percefull (HUGE RP fan in AR-filed today to run against Dem. Sen. Mark Pryor) and BJ Larsen (NC) who are running on the RP Constitutional platform and find others to run as well. Help FUND THEM! Lastly, but most certainly not least, the revolution should not decrease; it should INcrease. Put your weapon away, grab some material, and go out canvassing. Try handing out Aaron Russos video like "Freedom to Fascism", etc.. If you're already doing these things, great! Keep up the great work.
For peace, liberty, and prosperity!
G'night...
The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, self-appointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny. James Madison
I'm all for...
I'm all for, and actively involved in, getting as many Ron Paul Republicans into office as possible.
But, at the same time, I entertain no deception that the same people who are all for genocide of millions of people, torture and demolishing habeas corpus are going to allow ANY of us to vote our way out of even a wet paper bag.
The Congress critters and elite families and corporations who are sucking our wealth away using the alphabet soup of federal agencies are not just going to say "Oh, ok... we will let you have your wealth back now since you spoke up. We thought you didn't care."
Ain't gonna happen.
Americans got up in the face of the British soldiers. We didn't fire or attempt to start violence. Eventually though, in Boston, the British finally fired and killed 5 of us. The Revolution thus began.
Attempting to get Ron Paul Republicans into government through elections is our "getting up in their faces". One day they WILL fire...
When
When you are ready to die...you are no match for anyone.....this isn't 1776
I'm ready to die if it means
I'm ready to die if it means Freedom or not for my son and other present and future human beings.
=)
Then
Round up your pea shooter and go attack a tank...by the way, if we weren't free this website would not exist
Yea...
... I guess the French Underground were total idiots also.
"Resistance to tyranny is futile. Surrender now!"
*rolls eyes*
Updated my post, thanks everyone!!!
Thanks for the great comments folks!!!
We find ourselves in a very
We find ourselves in a very sad situation friends. I feel like I am in some type of nightmare that I can not wake from. I am so unsure about my job and my freedom. All I ever wanted in life was to be left alone to make a honest living for my family. I wonder if I am going to have to move out of country to feed my family. I will be buying arms real soon and I don't count the 3.57's I have for home defense. The best defense against tyranny is a rifle which I will be looking into various models to defend my family. As of now I am looking into a springfield M1A which is considered one of the best rifles ever made. I will be stock piling ammo because You never know I might have to hunt to feed my family. This is a sad situation and makes me want to cry almost ...... As far as the answer goes I think the time of testing will be when the men in black rush into my house to confiscate fire arms. I seriously don't know what to do but when the depression comes people will be stealing left and right and I think I will have to defend myself and my family fuck the gun laws. I guess the man that breaks into my house will be burried in the back yard.
This is PSY-OP stuff! Don't fall for it!
Folks, please recognize the forums are beginning to have subjects that are trying to find out the following:
1. Are you armed?
2. Where are you?
3. What event will "push you into violence"?
4. How will you respond to "this threat" or "that threat"?
ETC, ETC.
Look, you are being data-mined. It's very clear (and I know something about this). So, stop going along with it
Shut your mouth, don't say anything that will put RP supporters in bad light.
Its best to recognize a forum that has nothing to do with RP and just stay off it. This crap is ramping up here and on other places. I wonder what the hurry is? You should too.
PSY-OP stuff
I agree with what you say!! I'm a grand mother of 9 and all I'm arm'd with is my love for them. (and some! of my constitutinal rights) I have my Gov Rep's on speed dial, and there emails saved in my favorites. They here form me AT LEAST once a week!!!!
actually, i thought that too, but it's not
Fortune Favors the Bold
see the beginning of the thread. The poster and i discussed this point.
Every single Ron Paul
Every single Ron Paul supporter is in their list regardless of discussions about the 2nd amendment and the right to bear arms.
Whether we've discussed guns or not Ron Paul supporters will be the first to be questioned and rounded up.
Dr. Paul has looked them in the eye and pointed at them saying "I mean to tear down your system that allows you to steal the People's wealth and lie to them and take away their freedoms!"
Any supporter of ANY of the Bill of Rights is their enemy already!
"Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, George Mason, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton, shut your mouths, don't say anything that will put Independence supporters in a bad light."
The only way to stay off their list is to be a total compliant slave. I'm not going to cede my Right to speech to them in order to save my rights. It doesn't work. It only confirms ones slavery.
When they come to take the rest of our Rights away, if I all I have is a rock, I AM going to throw it at them. If nobody else is willing to throw their rocks at Them then I will STILL throw my rock just as damn hard as I can. And I hope They are listening to me, right now.
The "hurry" is that Bush has signed presidential directives that utterly eliminate every last item in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution for such "trivial" events as economic downturns and natural disasters. We are literally on the very edge of IMMINENT THREAT to ALL of our Rights....
No worries.
The awakening IS happening! Each and every one of us is educating our family and friends. It's like a virus, just not as fast.
The awareness that has happened in the past year is remarkable - and it's an international awakening! Stay the course, but be prepared for calamities by stocking up on food, silver coin, candles, batteries, gasoline, etc. Stay positive, but in a good Scout sort of way!
I can tell you this, I am 62
I can tell you this, I am 62 years old and just made my first of 3 or 4 gun purchases. In my excursions into this new field of gun ownership, both online, going to gun shows and gun shops in Florida, I find that the gun business is in hyperdrive. Shows are packed. Concealed Carry classes are overflowing. The housing bubble may have burst, but if you're in the gun industry, you're making money hand over fist. I couldn't be happier. What happened in England, Australia and other places has to be shown for the farse that it is. Take away the citizens guns and the crime rate goes up. I support any effort to get guns into the hands of every law abiding citizen. We have to stand together on this or we will be standing together in FEMA camps wondering where our republic went. Join the NRA. Join the GOA. Contribute to those engaged in the battle. It's about to get worse, not better in November.
Just GOA...
... NRA is a bunch of gun-grabber commiez.
>;-)
What Distinguishes Us From the Enemy (NWO)
We DO believe in the rule of law. We DO NOT believe in "pre-emptive" war. The Zionists (most of whom are NOT Jewish) are playing out REVELATION for us. However, our situation is similar to New Testament times. Remember the Zealots? They brought about destruction of the second temple and a scattering of the Israelites, just the opposite of their intent, I'm sure. Violence is a response when all else fails and only when one's life is imminentally threated. Most importantly, violence is a RESPONSE, NOT a SOLUTION.
This (From James Madison) Seems To Apply Here
Vote RON PAUL 2008
_______________
A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained in arms, is the best most natural defense of a free country.
-- James Madison, 4th U.S. President, Father of the U.S. Constitution
Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.
-- James Madison, 4th U.S. President, Father of the U.S. Constitution
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
-- James Madison, 4th U.S. President, Father of the U.S. Constitution
And this [from me]:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
I don't own a gun,
but I have a friend who has a basement full of them. I've shot most of them.
We need to set up a strategy. First point is communication. Electricity can be shut down. The only way to communicate is through CB radios.
Go out and buy a handheld. Channel 22 in the event of Nationwide Lockdown.
Hey ... I love your posts!
You should post mini survival segments!
We watch Survivor Man a lot in our house. Got a survival DVD this week.
Saturday Survival Show Starring Svens Son
Saturdays at Seven, Set your Set to Station Sixteen
Cut the head of the snake
As I stated in another thread.
There seems to be a do nothing or kill mentality.
By the time you feel you should start shooting .. it's all over already.
Be wary those who proport violence.
Instead, the mid ground.
If organised it would make the better sense.
A small military/police contingent.
Lawyers. Judges. Jury.
Start pulling off the street from as high up the chain.
1 by 1
Into a peoples court. Try them for their criminal activities.
Jail.
TV hosts. Politicians. Legals.
This is the only real option I see for truly taking back the country.
People lie because they can. They cheat because they can.
There is no punishment. The system is rigged. Re-rig the system.
Do it legally.
You said....
"Be wary those who proport violence"
Yes, yes... I am already wary of the Neocons.
=)
not yet
For now, we do our best to deal with things Peacefully.
We march.
We rally.
We put up signs.
We petition.
We go on strike.
We educate fellow citizens
...but we do not use force until they start shooting first.
When they start shooting us and forcibly inserting things into our bodies...then we continue to stop them with the least necesary force, which *could* be use of arms.
Besides, now is the time to celebrate-we have them running scared.
Now is the time to push our message of Peace, not take to arms.
I know that things are very heated and very scary, but we cannot let our fear affect our judgement.
Just keep doing what you have been doing and everything will be allright.
When they come to your house
and ask for your guns. Even though you haven't done anything to harm another individual.
I don't know when the right
I don't know when the right time is and I honestly hope that it never comes to that. Hopefully our nation will heal via our revolution without the need for violence. Ron Paul says that this is a peaceful revolution and I believe him.
But, believe it or not, a revolt against tyranny in government has happened before in our country - approximately 60 years ago. It was called the Battle of Athens. You can read some brief details about it at http://en.wikipedia.org/w... or some very detailed information at http://www.constitution.o...
Basically, the citizens of Athens, Tennessee, were being grossly mistreated and the events unfolded when somebody in the government appeared to be trying to rig the votes (or something like that). Many WWII veterans and others had it out with the local corrupt government, eventually replacing that corrupt government with a new one. From what I read, though, it was quite a gun battle and went on for a bit of time.
Gun Control Planned In The Spring Of 2009
The History of Gun Control throughout the World, says it all.
Our Congress has already prepared Gun Control Bills to be submitted for approval in the spring of 2009 and the votes to stop it from passing will just not be there. Our own Government will be doing this to protect us, as Governments did throughout history.
The following are a few examples of this history:
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to
1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were
Rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5
Million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
Exterminated.
------------------------------
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a
Total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves
Were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million
Political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
Exterminated
------------------------------
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981,
100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
Exterminated.
------------------------------
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000
Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and
Exterminated.
------------------------------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one
Million educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded
Up and exterminated.
-----------------------------
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century
Because of gun control: 56 million.
------------------------------
It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced
By new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by
Their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more
Than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:
List of 7 items:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent Australia-wide,
Assaults are up 8.6 percent Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes,
44 percent)!
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.
Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the
Criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in
Armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in
The past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey
Is unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of
The ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how
Public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense
Was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns
The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.
You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians
Disseminating this information.
Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes,
Gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!
The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.
With guns, we are 'citizens'.
Without them, we are 'subjects'.
During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they
Knew most Americans were ARMED!
Nice lemme just save that
Nice lemme just save that with a little copy-n-paste!
great post steve!
great post steve!
"During WWII the Japanese
"During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they
Knew most Americans were ARMED!"
Isn't that the same reason why Germany didn't invade Switzerland during WWII? In fact, here is an excerpt from http://www.davekopel.com/...
---quote---
The reason that Switzerland was too difficult to invade—in contrast to all the other nations which Hitler conquered in a matter of weeks—was the Swiss militia system. Unlike all the other nations of Europe, which relied on a standing army, Switzerland was (and still is) defended by a universal militia. Every man was trained in war, had his rifle at home, was encouraged to practice frequently, and could be mobilized almost instantly. The Swiss militiaman was under orders to fight to the last bullet, and after that, with his bayonet, and after that, with his bare hands. Rather than having to defeat an army, Hitler would have had to defeat a whole people.
---end quote---
Thank You Guys - These Are All Good Replies, May I Add....
Thank you guys for the great follow-up replies.
Just want to add a couple of interesting comments about the Switzerland Military. Unless something has changed recently every natral born male at the age of 18-21 must spend 18 months in the Army and in general, upon release from active duty they are given one of the latest fully automated rifle's supplied by their armory or a snipers rife, as well as all of the necessary "fall-out-gear", communications equipment and ammunition to be a stand-alone solider in case of an attack on their country. In addition, by law they must maintain that equipment in good working order, located in a quickly accessable location within their home and participate periodically in fall-out drills, as well as spend time at their firing ranges in order to requalify and remain certified. If they loose their certification they can be re-draft for up to a six month period.
One other item that is very interesting is that the military have hidden their nummerous bunkers throughout the country side and mountain slopes by placing artificial tree stumps, boulders and farm animals on top, as well as other look-alike artificial cammo. So if while visiting Switzerland if you stop along the road to take a leak in what you think is an old out-house, you might want to double check it first or you might be peeing down the barrel of an automatic mortar.
Note, that most of these bunkers include automatic mortars and other heavy equipment. They have also buried explosives and mines that are electronically activated.
What I find that is the most obvious and telling outcome of all of this effort and personal responsibility, is that Switzerland has one of the the lowest crime rates in the World and they are almost totally free of all gangs, drug dealers and school shootings.
Yes... this is interesting..
Yes... this is interesting.. the german officers knew because of the terrain that it would be guerrilla war that they could not win.. hitler told swiss who had a 500,000 man army that they will invade with 1,000,000 men.. the swiss replied... no problem we'll just have to shoot twice!!!!
In regards to the right to
In regards to the right to keep and bear arms in the United States, on March 18th the Supreme Court is scheduled to hear the oral arguments regarding the case "District of Columbia v. Heller" and is expected to publish their decision in summer of 2008. Anyone not familiar with this case should read up on it at http://en.wikipedia.org/w...
This is a very important case in regards to the second amendment. Fortunately there are at least 31 States which are in favor of the respondent (meaning they are in favor of the second amendment, basically, and our right to keep and bear arms.). These 31 States filed some sort of legal brief stating their opposition to the petitioners and their support for the respondent. You can view that brief at http://www.gurapossessky....
In addition to that, the State of Montana has filed some type of legal document stating that an unfavorable decision in this case would violate its compact with the United States. Basically, they are saying that the United States would be in breach of contract. I don't believe this is stated anywhere, but it seems that Montana is possibly considering a secession due to breach of contract if the Supreme Court rules in favor of the petitioner (D.C.). More details of this at http://www.reason.com/blo...
This message has been
This thread has been flagged, you people are advocating treason.
Kind of like a few guys that got together
and had the cajones to put their name on the Declaration of Independence?
YEAH CHESSIENUT!!!
AWESOME reply!!! You said it like a true patriot!
fucking retard!!!! 2nd
fucking retard!!!!
2nd amendment right is not treasonous but our god given right!!!!
treason ?
To defend yourself against tyranny is not treasonous, If the government does something to you that is illegal you have every right to defend yourself.
treason
And I quote "If this be treason, make the most of it." Patrick Henry.
you sir are an idiot!
you sir are an idiot!
PROOF!!! show it to me. Then
PROOF!!! show it to me. Then take a big step back and look at your own government and tell me i'm the hypocrit.
Apologize if you've read this on another thread
but I feel it to be pertinent.
Modern culture demonizes such acts, even though they are technically proper. The mass brainwashing of our society makes this difficult to bring off. We need to wake more Americans up first. And then, such violence will not be necessary, because the people will have rediscovered their individual soveriegnty and act accordingly.
'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'
Good Point....
thanks
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Do not fire unless fired upon is my rule. But also if they come and kick in my door. Or if I am forced to bare witness to complete atrocity.
It is a matter of pain
When the pain from your slavery outweighs by a significant margin the pain from fighting, people will take the risk of civil disorder.
This happened in 1861 (contrary to popular belief the "Civil War" was a tariff war, not a war to free the slaves) but those taking the risk lost.
Oil was discovered in this time frame and the exploitation of oil and natural gas afterwards drove a huge expansion of the economic pie. Even though government used the force of law to grant a larger portion of the expanding pie to the privileged few, the masses still enjoyed an improvement in living standard, so rebelling against the rigged economy was not worth the risk.
Everything will change in a few years as oil production falls without any adequate substitute, and the economy contracts significantly. The early effects are already visible at the gas pump as growing demand outstrips current supply. Essentially the industrial age will come to a quick end over just a decade or two after oil production begins to decline. The implications are huge, especially for oil importing countries like the USA (60% if the oil we use is imported) since exporting nations will take reduced production out of their exports first, keeping what they need for domestic consumption.
I am not talking about a depression like the 1930's, although we may see that first as a result of the breakdown of the now teetering debt based monetary system. I am talking about something much, much larger, where survival is the primary issue and carrying the burden of anything but small government will be intolerable. I suppose this grotesque federal government and equally obtrusive state counterparts could simply voluntarily become shadows of their former selves, but this is unlikely, so I suppose the desire of those in power to continue the plunder and control will come into direct conflict with the desire of the rest of us to survive. I am guessing that pressure will build between now and roughly 2020, and somewhere along the line the pressure will become to much.
Unlike the civil conflict beginning in 1776, this will not be ideologically driven, but rather survival driven, so freedom will not necessarily be a result. It is just as possible that we will jump out of the frying pan into the fire and end up with even more oppressive government in our effort to rid ourselves of the present blight.
Not a good future to say the least, but then we are all victims or beneficiaries of the historical position of the dates of our births, and each of us could not have ever been other than when we are.
Yes about cheap oil
I think you are right that things will change a lot because of oil prices.
But you say "...the desire of those in power to continue the plunder and control will come into direct conflict with the desire of the rest of us to survive"
I don't know about that. I think a lot of people will feel that society's remaining 'producers' have a moral obligation to support them. If that won't work, then they will demand some kind of collectivist/cooperative solution to the poverty/scarcity. This is far worse. You can kiss most of your freedom goodbye then. If there isn't the money to pay for social security then I think this will almost certainly be trialled at least. I hope that won't happen and that most people will want to take care of themselves as best they can.
HERE IS WHAT WE COULD DO AND NEED TO DO!!!
It isn't the government as much as it is the media....PICTURE BOTH OF THESE SCENARIOS AND THEN TELL ME WHICH WOULD CREATE MORE RESULTS----
A) we march en mass(say 100,000 people) upon cnn, nbc, abc, cbs, etc. with our guns(legal) and signs telling THEM TO TELL THE F****ING TRUTH ABOUT RON PAUL.....(OR PICK ANOTHER SUBJECT...JUST TELL THE TRUTH) they are getting more and more blatant with the lies they feed the masses, and that in essence means no free press....
B) we march en mass(say 100,000 or so)upon the government (ie federal government) with signs and guns (showing our guns) telling them to follow the constitution, etc(pick a subject) and hope that they listen....
YOU pick ....which is more effective..