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The Lesson of Eliot Spitzer

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Public figures sometimes fall hard and fast, and nobody has faller harder or faster than Eliot Spitzer.

He was riding high one day, and bouncing off the pavement the next. It happens often; but it politics it gets the spotlight.

A similar fall from grace occurred with Teddy Kennedy, when Mary Jo Kopechne drowned in Kennedy's car after it went off a bridge on Martha's Vinyard. This was 1969. It took 24 hours for Kennedy to come forward and then gave a lame response. Much slack was cut for him because he had lost his brother Bobby the previous year and of course Jack in 1963. But his career never reached the heights many had envisioned; the ghost of Mary Jo (and her parents) haunt him to this day.

Senator Larry Craig was caught... well, you know. He didn't resign, but he's a pariah in the senate and probably will not be re-elected. His reputation is forever tarnished - if, for nothing else, not fessing up and telling the truth.

The point is, politicians get caught breaking the law, or die, or are found culpable of a grave lapse in judgment. They fall fast and hit the ground hard.

None of us can know what will be revealed about the remaining candidates; whether some fresh dirt will bring one of them down; or if the candidate will meet with an accident or foul play.

That's a very good reason to continue to support Ron Paul. In an age of uncertainty, sticking with the cleanest, least volatile - and targetable - candidate makes good sense.

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The Truth Behind the Spitzer Fiasco

I just read the blog about the "Lesson of Eliot Spitzer" and although the message is indeed a fine one of unity - it drags Spitzer further through the mud. I thought it important for people - especially RP supporters to understand what really happened to Spitzer.

Greg Palast is one of my favorite journalists. He's thorough, bare bones, no fluff or slight-of-hand old fashioned kind of reporter with courage and conviction. I invite you to visit his site: www.GregPalast.com

In the interest of truth, Greg wrote the following:

March 14th, 2008

The $200 billion bail-out for predator banks and Spitzer charges are intimately linked.

While New York Governor Eliot Spitzer was paying an 'escort' $4,300 in a hotel room in Washington, just down the road, George Bush's new Federal Reserve Board Chairman, Ben Bernanke, was secretly handing over $200 billion in a tryst with mortgage bank industry speculators.

Both acts were wanton, wicked and lewd. But there's a BIG difference. The Governor was using his own checkbook. Bush's man Bernanke was using ours.

This week, Bernanke's Fed, for the first time in its history, loaned a selected coterie of banks one-fifth of a trillion dollars to guarantee these banks' mortgage-backed junk bonds. The deluge of public loot was an eye-popping windfall to the very banking predators who have brought two million families to the brink of foreclosure.

Up until Wednesday, there was one single, lonely politician who stood in the way of this creepy little assignation at the bankers' bordello: Eliot Spitzer.

Who are they kidding? Spitzer's lynching and the bankers' enriching are intimately tied.

How? Follow the money.

The press has swallowed Wall Street's line that millions of US families are about to lose their homes because they bought homes they couldn't afford or took loans too big for their wallets. Ba-LON-ey. That's blaming the victim.

Here's what happened. Since the Bush regime came to power, a new species of loan became the norm, the 'sub-prime' mortgage and it's variants including loans with teeny "introductory" interest rates. From out of nowhere, a company called 'Countrywide' became America's top mortgage lender, accounting for one in five home loans, a large chunk of these 'sub-prime.'

Here's how it worked: The Grinning Family, with US average household income, gets a $200,000 mortgage at 4% for two years. Their $955 a month payment is 25% of their income. No problem. Their banker promises them a new mortgage, again at the cheap rate, in two years. But in two years, the promise ain't worth a can of spam and the Grinnings are told to scram - because their house is now worth less than the mortgage. Now, the mortgage hits 9% or $1,609 plus fees to recover the "discount" they had for two years. Suddenly, payments equal 42% to 50% of pre-tax income. Grinnings moved into their Toyota.

Now, what kind of American is 'sub-prime.' Guess. No peeking. Here's a hint: 73% of HIGH INCOME Black and Hispanic borrowers were given sub-prime loans versus 17% of similar-income Whites. Dark-skinned borrowers aren't stupid - they had no choice. They were 'steered' as it's called in the mortgage sharking business.

'Steering,' sub-prime loans with usurious kickers, fake inducements to over-borrow, called 'fraudulent conveyance' or 'predatory lending' under US law, were almost completely forbidden in the olden days (Clinton Administration and earlier) by federal regulators and state laws as nothing more than fancy loan-sharking.

But when the Bush regime took over, Countrywide and its banking brethren were told to party hardy - it was OK now to steer'm, fake'm, charge'm and take'm.

But there was this annoying party-pooper. The Attorney General of New York, Eliot Spitzer, who sued these guys to a fare-thee-well. Or tried to. Instead of regulating the banks that had run amok, Bush's regulators went on the warpath against Spitzer and states attempting to stop predatory practices. Making an unprecedented use of the legal power of "federal pre-emption," Bush-bots ordered the states to NOT enforce their consumer protection laws.

Indeed, the feds actually filed a lawsuit to block Spitzer's investigation of ugly racial mortgage steering. Bush's banking buddies were especially steamed that Spitzer hammered bank practices across the nation using New York State laws.

Spitzer not only took on Countrywide, he took on their predatory enablers in the investment banking community. Behind Countrywide was the Mother Shark, its funder and now owner, Bank of America. Others joined the sharkfest: Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch and Citigroup's Citibank made mortgage usury their major profit centers. They did this through a bit of financial legerdemain called "securitization."

What that means is that they took a bunch of junk mortgages, like the Grinnings, loans about to go down the toilet and re-packaged them into "tranches" of bonds which were stamped "AAA" - top grade - by bond rating agencies. These gold-painted turds were sold as sparkling safe investments to US school district pension funds and town governments in Finland (really).

When the housing bubble burst and the paint flaked off, investors were left with the poop and the bankers were left with bonuses. Countrywide's top man, Angelo Mozilo, will 'earn' a $77 million buy-out bonus this year on top of the $656 million - over half a billion dollars - he pulled in from 1998 through 2007.

But there were rumblings that the party would soon be over. Angry regulators, burned investors and the weight of millions of homes about to be boarded up were causing the sharks to sink. Countrywide's stock was down 50%, and Citigroup was off 38%, not pleasing to the Gulf sheiks who now control its biggest share blocks.

Then, on Wednesday of this week, the unthinkable happened. Carlyle Capital went bankrupt. Who? That's Carlyle as in Carlyle Group. James Baker, Senior Counsel. Notable partners, former and past: George Bush, the Bin Laden family and more dictators, potentates, pirates and presidents than you can count.The Fed had to act. Bernanke opened the vault and dumped $200 billion on the poor little suffering bankers. They got the public treasure - and got to keep the Grinning's house. There was no 'quid' of a foreclosure moratorium for the 'pro quo' of public bail-out. Not one family was saved - but not one banker was left behind.

Every mortgage sharking operation shot up in value. Mozilo's Countrywide stock rose 17% in one day. The Citi sheiks saw their company's stock rise $10 billion in an afternoon.

And that very same day the bail-out was decided - what a coinkydink! - the man called, 'The Sheriff of Wall Street' was cuffed. Spitzer was silenced.
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Do I believe the banks called Justice and said, "Take him down today!" Naw, that's not how the system works. But the big players knew that unless Spitzer was taken out, he would create enough ruckus to spoil the party. Headlines in the financial press - one was "Wall Street Declares War on Spitzer" - made clear to Bush's enforcers at Justice who their number one target should be. And it wasn't Bin Laden.

It was the night of February 13 when Spitzer made the bone-headed choice to order take-out in his Washington Hotel room. He had just finished signing these words for the Washington Post about predatory loans:

"Not only did the Bush administration do nothing to protect consumers, it embarked on an aggressive and unprecedented campaign to prevent states from protecting their residents from the very problems to which he federal government was turning a blind eye." You can read Spitzer's letter in its entirety here:

http://www.washingtonpost...

Bush, said Spitzer right in the headline, was the "Predator Lenders' Partner in Crime." The President, said Spitzer, was a fugitive from justice. And Spitzer was in Washington to launch a campaign to take on the Bush regime and the biggest financial powers on the planet.

Spitzer wrote, "When history tells the story of the subprime lending crisis and recounts its devastating effects on the lives of so many innocent homeowners the Bush administration will not be judged favorably."

But now, the Administration can rest assured that this love story - of Bush and his bankers - will not be told by history at all - now that the Sheriff of Wall Street has fallen on his own gun.

A note on "Prosecutorial Indiscretion."

Back in the day when I was an investigator of racketeers for government, the federal prosecutor I was assisting was deciding whether to launch a case based on his negotiations for airtime with 60 Minutes. I'm not allowed to tell you the prosecutor's name, but I want to mention he was recently seen shouting, "Florida is Rudi country! Florida is Rudi country!"

Not all crimes lead to federal bust or even public exposure. It's up to something called "prosecutorial discretion."

Funny thing, this 'discretion.' For example, Senator David Vitter, Republican of Louisiana, paid Washington DC prostitutes to put him diapers (ewww!), yet the Senator was not exposed by the US prosecutors busting the pimp-ring that pampered him.

Naming and shaming and ruining Spitzer - rarely done in these cases - was made at the 'discretion' of Bush's Justice Department.

Or maybe we should say, 'indiscretion.'

************
Greg Palast, former investigator of financial fraud, is the author of the New York Times bestsellers Armed Madhouse and The Best Democracy Money Can Buy.
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Hear The Palast Report weekly on Air America Radio's Clout.
http://www.airamerica.com...

the importance of humility for the victory of liberty

Dear tz,

Thank you for your truly beautiful post! It is only our ability to work together, especially when we disagree on particulars, and when we can be firm in expressing disagreement with someone's IDEAS, while being courteous and thoughful with the individual with whom we disagree, that Ron Paul, and the rest of us, can have any chances to win!

Keep up the good work!

PEACE AND FREEDOM!!
David K. Meller

unreal

if us reg americans were even close to doing what these warmongers do, wed be called an enemy cabatant!
http://nymegaphone.com/no...

The Greatest Libertarian Virtue

In the movie Excalibur, there is a scene where Arthur asks Merlin "What is the greatest attribute of a knight?". After trying to evade the question, Merlin became very cold and serious and replied "Truth". "Because when you lie, you murder some part of the world". Those who want freedom must always put truth first, but there is one virtue that comes ahead of truth.

It is in the title of a book by Hayek. "The Fatal Conceit". Pride blinds us to the truth, so we cannot know the truth unless we have the humility to accept it even if it destroys our most cherished beliefs and opinions. Neo-Cons said we would be greeted with cheers, parades, and flowers for invading. Instead we broke the seal on a pandora's box of rivalries. Socialsists and regulators often have their ideas of what businesses should do or that passing some law will fix everything instead of creating a situation where the side-effects are far worse. But they didn't intend them? It doesn't matter.

Mises and Hayek - and Ron Paul - recognize that people can be rational and irrational. Reasonable and unreasonable. And emotion is a stronger force than logic. That free will can be used for evil as well as good, and as with the socialist and neo-con, they may will the good end, but will use evil methods and only get bad results. Whatever is proposed politically or economically must take real human beings in the real world.

The revolution continues. A lot can happen in the months between now and the convention. If I asked back in 2007 who the Governor of New York would be in April 2008? The revolution will be won or lost by the humble precinct delegate helping his friend become county delegate. By small contributions. And by thousands of other small acts. God favors the prepared. In the American Revolution, it was perseverance that gained victory.

Ron Paul is the leader because he doesn't lead in any manner recognizable to the elite. He uses the word "we" all the time, but it is not the royal we, but the humble we. We will get what we deserve - what we are willing to work for.

And there are people who are against the war or big government who seem to have all the hubris of the neo-cons. I keep reading an article or two on how Ron Paul or his campagn should have done this, or ran this kind of ad, or spend money on something else. All these people never ran a successful campaign. It is the 20/20 hindsight the neo-cons are saying about the war, if it was only fought this way or that, it would have turned out differently.

This even applies to many of the deepest supporters of Liberty. I could point out the dozens of libertarian proposals as to how to run defense, privatization, or even complete plans for how things could work without any state. They all sound like Stalinesque 5-year plans more than anything else. If we only adoped their libertarian idea (instead of the socialist or neo-con idea) all will be wonderful and perfect. A centrally planned anarchy. I wish I was only joking.

We are given this moment in history, this humble man, and this opportunity to start to reclaim our liberty. My original post said it would be only the start of a difficult journey even if we already had the nomination and even if he was in the White House.

But that is what makes Ron Paul different from not only the Neo-Cons, the central economic planners, and the "I've got the key to Utopia" libertarians (some, but not all Randians/Objectivists, Rothbardians - who in this are the antithesis to Mises, and Regime libertarians). He doesn't know. He isn't able. And he says so. He only knows that the 95% of the things the government is busied with is an actual evil, but like many evils it would prefer murder-suicide to ending its reign, so it must be carefully dismantled like a bomb with a complex trigger.

Go back and listen to Ron Paul. He doesn't say "I will fix it", he says we must work together to dismantle leviathan without hurting anyone". He never said he could deliver a quick-fix or instant gratification. Why should the revolution be different? We can do some things at the speed of the internet, but we are building a cathredal for perpetual liberty but cathedrals take generations.

Ron Paul understands. He sees the truth. Because he is humble. That anything so valuable as liberty is more valuable than gold. That it is going to be a long hard fight, but one that will be worth it.

Join the revolution - not on your terms but on his. Say you don't know. Do the little, humble things. Humble yourself and exhalt liberty. At your county convention. At your meeting. At the national rally. For the local congressman who is a Paulite more than a republican or democrat. Persuade one person at a time - on their terms, not yours. This must be a conversion, not a persuasion. Not the arrogant "I'm smarter than you", but with "Did you know there is one congressman who has not taken a junket or his congressional pension, or any pay increase...". "Wouldn't you prefer someone honorable to someone who cheats, even occasionaly in your favor?".

And start acting like Ron Paul. Never give an inch on principle, but as part of that, reject the pomps and cheats, and things you don't need from Government. Let your life be an example of liberty - for it will be. Ron Paul is the greatest leader because he leads by example. He won't demand you change your personal life but has been married for 51 years. He won't demand you change lifestyle, but he takes care of himself. He won't go along with the crowd. We should all follow his example.

thank you very much for taking the time to write that

The supreme good is like water,
which nourishes all things without trying to.
It is content with the low places that people disdain.
Thus it is like the Tao.

In dwelling, live close to the ground.
In thinking, keep to the simple.
In conflict, be fair and generous.
In governing, don't try to control.
In work, do what you enjoy.
In family life, be completely present.

When you are content to be simply yourself
and don't compare or compete,
everybody will respect you.

May we all exemplify this wisdom like Ron Paul.

Thank you for this post!

These are very insightful.

Please, people, read each one and THINK.

Where did you find this list or is it original? I love it!

Ron Paul's comments

See Ron Paul's comments on the House floor on March 13th, 2008, regarding the Spitzer scandal (link below).

He basically shames the surveillance society created by the globalists.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/42585

"We don't have to start a brand new revolution...All we have to do is restore the original Constitution." -Ron Paul

why???

The news media and believability are always questionable. ........ Remember the movie Wag the Dog. ........... I always wonder what is going on when something is being blown up in the news? ....... It is like the kid in school that does something, and to avoid getting caught calls attention to something else. ........... It is like the bank robber gang causing something to happen in one part of the city (........ like a wreck, or fire or something) ...... that gets a lot of police and media attention ......... and then on the other side of town the main group of robbers rob the bank without trouble because all the cops are on the other side of town..........
..........................................................................................................
It is like having 20 candidates running for president and only one supporting the constitution.
Or like the media only giving coverage to those that .....the super rich want elected, because they know it will reward them with not only money spent for campaign advertising the candidates, but with money spent advertising the products that are owned by the super rich.
Company's like drug company's, oil company's, banking and investment houses, by Wall Street, & the military industrial complex, etc, etc, & by those that profit by socialized medicine, & inflation.
If we had honest fair media coverage of Ron Paul like we have had coverage of say Obama, or Hillary, or McCain.
.........................................................................................................
Ron Paul would be far and away the front runner and .......... ""the ONLY reason" ........ he is not the front runner is most people know very little about him except that the media has called him a fringe candidate and have said he has no real supporters.
........................................................................................................
The media does have a Ron Paul campaign and it is called the silent treatment. If the public does not see him he does not exist.
........................................................................................................
Millions of dollars were donated to him because people looked him up on the internet, not because the media gave him coverage.
The donations came because the public rallied around him as the only honest and trust worthy candidate.
.........................................................................................................
That is why he raised (we donated) almost 20 million dollars in the 4th quarter of 2007.
.......................................................................................................
After he received that money the media completely blacked out his name as well as his rally's and speeches. People have been wanting to vote for a man they could trust all of their lives and that man is Dr. Ron Paul.

Agree!

I agree with JerryB9105! That is why finding out if this assertion ala "whatdoesitmean.com" is true or not. Who knows anything about this writer, Sorcha Faal? Anyone? Buehler?

Notwithstanding what Spitzer may or may not have done, if he really was beginning to investigate Silverstein, that speaks volumes! My fingers are crossed that we will hear more about this...

And remember--weeks after the disaster at the WTC, the men working "the pile" appear on videotape communicating to their team members that they're getting "ready to pull Building 6." Pull Building 6...And down came the remains of Building 6...Yeah, Silverstein meant "pull the firefighters" from WTC 7. Uh, huh.

Sorcha Faal

I have some emails here informing me that this lady is not who she claims she is..

one excerpt of a post says:
There is no such person as “Sorcha Faal, Russian academic” “Sorcha Faal” is actually David Booth, an American computer programmer “Sorcha” is alleged to be a Russian academic but there is absolutely no record of anyone with such a name in Russian academia.

Anyone interested in having this forwarded, please send me an email.

It pays off to be vigilant as to what information can be taken on board as factual or dis information.

Anyone knows more about David Booth?

Wow! That Doesn't Happen Often -- Somebody Agreeing W/Me ;-)

Vote RON PAUL 2008
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But since you mentioned building 6, here's a short clip that says pretty much the same thing:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...

I'm no expert but it seems to me that making reference to PULL on the same day that the WTC was in total shambles, saying PULL as if it was an easy option in view of other alternatives -- really doesn't address the necessary time and energy and resources NECESSARY to prepare 'in advance' a building for demolition // it takes time in other words. And certainly not to be done as quickly as old Mr SILVERSTEIN would suggest saying we decided to PULL IT and then watched the building collapse. Takes days of planning and days for actual installation of cutting devices, explosives charges, etc. If you think this not to be the case, then look here at what Controlled Demolitions Inc (CDI) a world class demo-company has to tell us about a building they personally rigged for demolition (the nations then tallest department store):

J.L. Hudson Department Store - Detroit, Michigan
10/24/1998

http://www.controlled-dem...
***extract***
In 24 days, CDI's 12 person loading crew placed 4,118 separate charges in 1,100 locations on 9 levels of the structure. Over 36,000 ft. of detonating cord and 4,512 non-electric delay devices were installed in CDI's implosion initiation system. As the implosion required the detonation of a total of 2,728 lb. of explosives.
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Now linking all this with SPITZER would prove very interesting, indeed.

Eliot Spitzer

Eliot Spitzer's escapades gives the media a titilating story that certainly eclipses Larry Sinclair's tale of crack,cocaine and homosexual limousine romps with trilateral commision founder Zbigniew Brzezinski's fair haired boy, Barrack Husein Obama, no pun intended.
It looks to me that Eliot was chosen to fall on his sword for the cause by his unsactioned meddling in wall street affairs.

Pretty damn fascinating

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I love stuff like this, even if it's alleged. It's always interesting to hear the dirt about powerful people being rather common after all.

A propos of nothing. Decades ago, the Soviet government tried to get dirt on Alexsandr Solgenitsyn, the famous Russian writer. They tried everything: bribes, hookers, set-ups, video from hidden cameras, you name it. He walked away from every one, much to their dismay. When I read this I did a little dance: thank God there is one inscrutable person who cannot be corrupted no how, no way.

My Thoughts Are When Someone Speaks - Ya Might Wanna Listen

Vote RON PAUL 2008
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(as to this thread's internal claim of Spitzer investigating Silverstein) --

What I find absolutely amazing is that here is a man (LARRY SILVERSTEIN) who truthfully 'legally' did nothing wrong in taking out an insurance policy (be it a surprising 100 year lease with settlement protection that included terrorist attacks) on a very well-known NYC building complex, i.e., the WTC site, known to have multiple construction matters requiring major BIG TIME renovation needs; regardless, a 'legal' transaction that mounted into the MILLIONS of $$ extending his interest from a single building he already had private association with at the site (WTC7) with 'sudden' interest seeking to encompass ALL the remaining site, i.e., ALL the 'other' WTC buildings -- and this major BIG TIME $$ transaction happening within only a couple of months of the disaster that would strike there and destroy ALL those buildings there; the destruction pretty much 'contained' inside a neat little box there //

-- Nothing 'legally' wrong in him doing that -- but questionable for sure, and convenient for sure (him not having to 'pay out' all the 'fix up' cost, considering), and very 'oddly' coincidential the timing of it all; but certainly nothing anyone can go to jail over, not exactly.

But then on top of this terrible disaster to DEMAND 'double' insurance payments (the same mounting into the BILLIONS of $$) because the 'terrorist' activity which 'HE VIEWED' as two separate incidents of terror involved 'TWO' separate airplane incidents -- it all seems a bit hokey to me. Seems a bit over-greedy to me.

-- And doing the math // Three buildings resulting in TOTAL collapse; yet only TWO planes. Amazing isn't the right word, is it. ALL the 'other' damaged WTC buildings had to be 'pulled' down .

Legal is one thing; and timing is one thing; but greed is yet another, and I believe GREED speaks to this man's integrity from the very beginning.

Some say this to be nothing more than a smart business deal for a man doing what he knows best -- business. And yet in that interview he (SILVERSTEIN) gave (after the fact) he did state quite clearly that the WTC7 had to be 'pulled' for reasons that make absolutely no sense to anyone that would look closely at the reason he gave; that, and the actual happening of the building's collapse in the first place. "Never before in history ... steel-framed building ... etc., etc"
-- (you've heard it all before) --

But we are told to believe that history and common sense mean nothing // which is pure bullshit // because WTC7 came down in what can only be described as a perfectly controlled process. Check out these links and see for yourself:

WTC7 collapse:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
http://www.youtube.com/wa...

LARRY SILVERSTEIN admission:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...

This crime remains unsolved (the 19 Arabs being nothing but an obvious blatant diversion); and this guy (SILVERSTEIN) is deeply connected and deeply involved --

All that has to be done is PROVE IT. Which seems to be the single continuing problem here, if only because our own goverment (involved as they were) sees no reason to properly investigate this crime of the century -- after all, why would they?

-- Bunch of damn greedy, blood-thirsty gangsters!

The Real Lesson

http://www.lewrockwell.co...
http://www.lewrockwell.co...
http://www.lewrockwell.co...
http://www.lewrockwell.co...
http://www.lewrockwell.co...

He was an evil man and a hypocrite. He fought using evil oppressive laws as a prosecutor and his downfall came through the same types of laws.

Spitzer's problem

stems from the fact that he threatened to go up against the banks, when the banks are in chaos.

Great Point

It's not over til its over.

The Sheriff of Wall Street is hit and the Stock Market Surges...

Facts is facts so don't shoot the messenger. This is well worth the 15 minute listen:
http://www.gregpalast.com...

here is another lesson, among many others

don't mess with Wall Street unless you are prepared to take on the federal government from any angle. At least he had the good sense and grace to resign. Prediction: You have not seen the end of Eliot Spitzer.

I'm from NYC and, like many

I'm from NYC and, like many I'm sure, I am truly saddened by this relevation. Many may disagree here, but he seemed like a real good guy. I mean I always did have a suspicion that something may be amiss because the way he related to people sometimes seemed to hint at underlying things. But all in all he seemed like a good guy. The enormity of how dysfunctional Albany is is just insane. It's pathetic and he would have been a great figure to rattle the cages. It is just so sad. I hope Patterson can do some real damage but my first instinct is it will not be anything grand. He will do a good job but probably not really change Albany. He will probably gets things done but not fix problems. I hope I'm wrong and things really do change.

Sources for the Spitzer Silverstein probe

I linked to whatdoesitmean.com, read the article and the writer provides no sources for the assertion that Spitzer had just begun to investigate Silverstein. That would be very, very interesting indeed, if true. What I do know to be true is that Spitzer leased office space from a Silverstein property in lower Manhattan during his campaign for governor.

Again, if this is true, this is has tremendous implications--Silverstein of the now-famous quote regarding the six-second WTC 7 collapse and I paraphase: "...terrible loss of life, so we decided to 'pull it' and we watched the building collapse."

Sources??

By the way, this quote by

By the way, this quote by Silverstein I think is so taken advantage of. Do you really think that if its collapse was deliberate like that, Silverstein would simply say "pull it" so matter of factly? That is crazy talk. I love how whatever happens, whether it's secrecy or the opposite, conspiracy theorists take advantage of the whole spectrum and only look through their narrow viewpoint.

Self-Edit // Relocated Posting

Vote RON PAUL 2008

so its crazy

to take a man at his word? and you have to be a conspiracy theorist to so "twist" a man's words as to actually listen to what he says? To paraphrase if I may, I love whatever happens that "right thinking" people take advantage of the whole spectrum and only look through their narrow viewpoint. I don't know exactly what happened that day. But you don't either.

In this case, your "conspiracy theorist" has a form of evidence and you have...well, a theory about how conspirators would act or speak...so just who is the conspiracy theorist now?

Dude, believe me I am the

Dude, believe me I am the first to admit I don't know exactly what happened in that situation or any other situation I was not personally involved with. I can't know by the fact that I wasn't involved. Yes, I was simply commenting on how people analyze and critique what was said. For all I know, it could have been a slip. I am simply saying though that people who want something to be perceive situations to fulfill that want. That is all.

And my analyzing him speaking and saying something and considering the context is not some sort of conspiracy theory. It is simply intelligently analyzing his behavior with full knowledge that that is all it is and nothing more.

I totally agree

but we ALL do that...we all perceive according to our prejudices. We are human. My personal thought is that the more we (me, especially) try to intelligently analyze things, the more we tend toward, or need to guard against, being unwitting victims of our own prejudices.

I thought my last paragraph was pretty good, lol. You had to intelligently consider how a conspirator might act and compare it to the way Silverstein acted. Therefore you had to have a theory of conspirators...conspiracy theory.

Seems like you are working pretty hard to find a way to not listen to what the man said...it could have been a slip? Could have, no doubt. Anyway, I dont intend to argue. Thanks for the friendly response.

Adam0980?

Do you have something meaninful to contribute here?

I could easily see

I could easily see Silverstein as thinking nothing of it. If WTC7 was pulled, who knows what the motivations might have been. To him, it may not have been that big of a deal, and he may very well have said it "matter of factly" in that case. What seems like a major slip up to us would be no big deal to someone who is capable of such evil.

What really makes his statement suspect is the fact that it took him two years to respond after he initially made it. Two years. When he finally did respond, he said that "pull it" meant to pull out the firefighters... Only trouble is, there was no one in the building at the time. How much do we need this kind of thing to be rubbed in our faces before we do something about it?

If that is true, that is odd

If that is true, that is odd (the time of response)? However, again, it just doesn't make sense. If you are doing something that requires the utmost secrecy, one would assume the people involved would follow by acting with the highest level of secrecy. What about the fact that he was saying that in the context of how damaged the building was and saying with a certain level of discontent? It is just irrational this type of thinking. It's picking and choosing to support a particular argument.

Anyone in power is put

Anyone in power is put there, and can be taken down when they refuse to play ball. Spitzer was investigating the Wall St. Banks, the same banks the Fed is bailing out.

He was putting the squeeze on the bond rating services, starting to investigate how subprime paper worth 26 cents on the dollar got AAA ratings from Moody's, and S&P.

Notice the day after Spitzer bit it, the Fed loaned 200 billion and took this same paper as collateral, and it was rated AAA again.

I Mean -- $80,000 -- Is That Even Possible?

Vote RON PAUL 2008

Think about it

:-(

If we didn't have laws dictating what people can or can't do with their peepees we might actually get close to a society where people could be honest about themselves.

-0-

www.LawfulGov.Org
Your Nexus to the Freedom Movement

But Mr. Spitzer should not be prosecuting OTHERS

for the very offense he was committing. This is hypocrtical and hypocrites deserve no public office or public trust. Period. Whatever his "sin" may have been, if he was trying to get away with something that he was throwing the book at others for doing--which he had done, having shut down 4 major prostitution rings while he was AG--he should have been brought down.

The man was power hungry, full of himself. He was not a crusader for justice. He was a crusader for power, and was willing to prosecute anyone while doing the same deeds himself, which likely added to his illusion of himself as a powerful man, above the law.

The reality is that Mr. Spitzer could have flown to Nevada and legally engaged the services of a working girl, and he'd not have committed any legal offense. But he broke the laws that he was himself enforcing, and that is wrong in any case.

But What?

You missed the point.

There couldn't be such hypocrisy if those laws weren't there.

Moralist laws obviously don't work for the stated purpose, but they do serve very well as time-delay landmines. Everybody is a sinner, by one church's or another's definition, and will have done something "wrong" somewhere in his life while passing through the traps. So anybody can be taken down when he becomes a problem.

Anybone who thinks that the FBI just suddenly found out about a pleasure palace that's been around that long and frequented by so many powerful international hypocrites, is proactively stupid.

Anybody who thinks imposing religious prohibitions through the law rather than free-will discovery is going to work against nature is even dumber than that.

The real jokes here are (1) the moralists among us who vote for these vicious laws think it's their own idea, and (2) moralists don't see the blasphemy in trying to override God's trials!

Which is worse, hypocrisy or intentional ignorance?

-0-

www.LawfulGov.Org
Your Nexus to the Freedom Movement

REALLY NEED more HONEST politicians

That's what this country needs, according to Dr. Ron Paul. In a panelist interview in New Hampshire shortly before that primary, Dr. Paul was interviewed on the TV by representatives in New Hampshire.

It was a GREAT INTERVIEW....by the end of the interview, all were mesmerized by him and asked him, like a young, naive student to the great teacher...."What do we do now, what do you think we should do now??". As they looked at him quizzically, he said....

"You need to start voting in people who have more integrity."

And, THAT, my friends, is EXACTLY what the doctor ordered...

The problem is how do we do it...

My guess is that THOSE PEOPLE who CAN and are ABLE and have the TIME to do it, to get involved in their State legislatures and run for office like all the rest of them did----then, start promoting the more exciting and dynamic ones into CONGRESS or the SENATE.

I know....it's really hard to unseat a Congressman or a Senator, but things may get SO bad by then, that we would have a really good chance to win, and I'm talking within 4-8 years. If the country is reduced to her knees by then, well, we'll all be in trouble...

Hopefully, we can at least support THOSE PEOPLE who are going to fun for office...and who are endorsed by Dr. Paul, like the young Air Force pilot in New Hampshire...

Targeted?

Anytime the MSM goes ape-shit over a story, I instinctively start looking at all the things happening in the world that they AREN'T reporting on.

• Opposing the NAU bill HCM2003 gets stomped
• Wiretaps WITH IMMUNITY ready to pass the House
• Possible War w/ Iran
• Saddam had no link w/ Al Qaeda
• Bush Veto's Ban on Torture
• The Dollar is Tanking

Also it appears that the FBI had been sitting on this info for awhile.
Also it appears that Spitzer was about to start investigations into Silverstein, owner of the WTC and subsquent insurance fraud.

I'm just saying.
http://www.roncan.com

I agree with your points except for one

The internet alternative media has been touting potential Spitzer driven investigations into Silverstein.

Mr. Spitzer is a billionaire and is a member of the same clubs as Silverstein. He is one of "them." Spitzer's father and Silverstein were both NY real estate billionaires.

More importantly trying to make Spitzer a 9/11 martyr is JACK.

It amazes me that anyone could claim this man had any intention of investigating 9/11. He was the ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR THE STATE OF NEW YORK when 9/11 was perpetrated. The host of crimes committed before, during and after 9/11 in the city and boroughs of Manhattan would fill a phone book....9/11 martyr? No.

Thanks for the clarity

Now, if everyone would please dry their eyes and put their hankies back in their pockets ... Spitzer was low-life who probably spent most of his time trying to look good. He's a garden variety hypocrite ... not a nice person, from what I've learned about him.

Personally, I think if he was going to investigate Silverstein, it was probably to do a whitewash, though it wouldn't surprise me if Spitzer upset the wrong (powerful) person and they pulled the plug on him. These guys are just the legal Mafia and that's how they behave.

maybe this

Precisely

Spitzer was no crusader for truth, justice, and the American way. He was just a horny guy who liked expensive prostitutes and thought he could get away with doing the very things he prosecuted others for doing. He was the very definition of a member of the "greater than everyone else" privileged class, to whom no rules apply.

He is one of "them" and I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.

As to why the media reports this instead of NAU and devaluing the dollar? Well, that's easy: SEX SELLS, devalued dollars don't so much. The average American Jane or Joe is far more interested in who's blowing or screwing who, than they are in the weightier matters of public policy and economics. Jane and Joe Sixpack can understand easily what a sex story is about, while the rest goes over their heads.

Sex sells, pure and simple. If Jane and Joe Sixpack weren't watching the Spitzer scandal unfold on every channel that is chasing the story, they'd be watching E! TV or Entertainment Tonight or some other mindless drivel featuring Britney Spears' belly button, Paris Hilton's latest home video, or J-Lo's rear end; and NOT the McNeil-Lehrer News Hour.

Patriot Act....

Well, as much as I dislike his actions, I hardly believe these were terrorist hookers infiltrating the government by sleeping their way to the president. It disgusts me that they would discover his actions, and release them to the public using the patriot act as a cover.

A BLATANT AND FOUL ABUSE OF POWER!!! I'M BEGINNING TO HATE!

As much as I despise Spitzer

prostitution is not a federal crime because the constitution does not give the federal government the right to regulate it. Therefore, the FBI broke the law, violated several of Mr. Spitzers rights and is trampling on our constitution.

This is how they destroy the constittution. They get you to make an exception in the case of laws you morally agree with.

There was no common law crime or constituional crime.

Period.

Did you know that Spitzer

Did you know that Spitzer was investigating Larry Silverstein? Did you know that Silverstein is now in control of the Sears tower in Chicago? Does any of the current news make more sense now? Stay away from Chicago especially on pagan holidays.

No I Did Not Know This -- Link Please

Vote RON PAUL 2008

I got this in an email

I got this in an email yesterday. http://www.whatdoesitmean...

That's One Source -- Thanks. But Where's More Of The Same?

Vote RON PAUL 2008
__________
What gets me is how things like this (personal things like this) can explode and become a feeding frenzy for the MSM. It's on all their programs (shows) over and over -- for days. I remarked to my wife this morning -- "Wonder what else there is in the 'real' news that the media is keeping from us with all this Spitzer nonsense?"

They (MSM) seem to suddenly have a feeding frenzy each time there is something else we really need to be hearing about -- but the idiotic seems to take center stage and the other even if it is mentioned is only mentioned briefly.

Like for example:
-- The real news story about how (in a study from October 2006) claiming over 655-thousand Iraqi deaths (maybe even closer to over 1-million deaths) had resulted in Iraq (back then) as a result of both indirect and direct causes of our war there. Far more than any 30-thousand then being stated by GWB and crew. But that was mentioned in the early morning hours (once only) because the news was suddenly flooded (for days afterwards) with reports of that private airplane with the sports star that took a sharp left turn into a high-rise building in Manhattan, New York City; reminding everyone of the events of 9/11 all over again // airplane; NYC; sky-scraper; etc, etc. They (MSM) actually 'used' references to 9/11 to get our minds off of something that was supposed to be based upon 9/11 -- the war.

A Psyops! Every which way but loose, that.

-- This Spitzer story may be true but it also has the feel of a Psyops in action. Maybe there is truth in what Spitzer did, but so what -- that SILVERSTEIN investigation would be more important in my way of thinking. A Psyops? I wouldn't doubt it.

What better way to distract people

and divert their attention through a sex scandal of a high profile person?

This means that the powers in the shadow can do a few things which will elude the general attention of most.

Wonder what treaty, agreement, or plan will be pushed through whilst everyone, fired up by MSM, are trying to stay informed regarding Governor Spitzer's indiscretions.

Becoming more cynical by the day I am....

Sources?

Do you have any sources that back this up?

JOhn

Classic National Lampoon

Here's the classic National Lampoon on the Teddy Kennedy VW ad:
If Ted Kennedy drove a Volkswagen, he'd be President today.