China and the economy
Posted March 29th, 2008 by Adam0980
output
I was just wondering about China and the economy, especially in relation to oil prices. I don't know much about China's own economy but I have always taken the notion that China will eventually fall apart economically as their political infrastructure is in conflict with their economic infrastructure. Is this a safe assumption or should we believe China is a real concern and is going to continue to grow and grow? Any thoughts? I would be interested to know anything insightful on the subject.
Bookmark/Search this post with:
- Login to post comments
There is an emerging middle
There is an emerging middle class in many countries, including China. Middle class people consume more. This huge emerging middle class is putting an incredible amount of pressure on limited resources. Eventually there might not be enough to go around... at least not enough to go around at current prices.
middle class
And very few could be considered middle class. communism is so successful that As of 10:03 PM EST, 34,481,291 people have submitted statements withdrawing from the Chinese Communist Party or its affiliated organizations. ................ Wu said that the persecution of Falun Gong was very serious in Sichuan province. ... Organ Harvesting in China's Labor Camps http://en.epochtimes.com/...
China 'Still Executing Prisoners for Organs'
Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:20:00 PM
The killing of persecuted groups in Chinese military hospitals so that their organs may be harvested for sale may still be continuing, a former politician who investigated the issue said.
.....
To his knowledge, a female practitioner, the wife of a middle-rank member of the communist cadre, often went to local district public areas, such as Joyful Harvest, to distribute Falun Gong truth-clarifying materials and called on people to withdraw from the communist party. She was sent to the labor camp twice. In November 2007, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) arrested her and sentenced her to five years in prison....... I don't agree with the suppression of Falun Gong. Falun Gong improves one's physical health. What is bad about it? But the CCP just can't tolerate it." ...... Cruel Torture in Prison
Wu also mentioned that ..................... because he exposed the head of the local county as practicing favoritism in elections, .................. retaliation was severe. ............... He was sent to the third prison in Sichuan province for nine years.............. During that time, he was cruelly tortured many times, including ............ being hand and foot cuffed, ......... placed in solitary jail, ............. forced to sit in a water-filled jail cell, ........... frequent beatings, ........and starvation. ...
Wu's friend advised him to escape quickly. After careful consideration, believing that people in mainland China would continue to suffer from the CCP's persecution, Wu made the decision to seek democracy and freedom, and therefore sought political asylum in Taiwan.
Wu emphasized, .............. "This time, I want to expose their tyranny and the persecution I suffered over the years. .............. Now they want to further persecute me for three more years. I can't stay in mainland China anymore. I request political asylum." .... "I am renouncing evil for good, seeking democracy and freedom. But if I can't gain freedom in a democratic and free country, there is no way they can explain this … repatriating me back to the mainland is a crime."
middle class
The only way to rise above the poverty level is to Join the communist party and that does not asure you of anything. ........... http://en.epochtimes.com/... .................. Sujiatun is merely one of 36 concentration camps for Falun Gong in China
By an individual who identifies himself as a veteran military doctor
Special to The Epoch Times
Mar 31, 2006
Falun Gong practitioners reenact a scene of organ-harvesting in a parade in New York City (The Epoch Times)
[Editors' Note: This report is a compilation of information provided by an individual who identifies himself as a veteran military doctor in Shenyang military zone in Shenyang, Liaoning province, China. The Epoch Times has only added headings. The Epoch Times encourages more people to give us inside information about Sujiatun Concentration Camp or other similar camps imprisoning Falun Gong practitioners. The Epoch Times will be discreet and careful about your personal safety.]
I am a senior military doctor in the logistics service in the army in Shenyang military zone. For safety's sake, I will not disclose my identity for now. The reports from outside China about Sujiatun Concentration Camp imprisoning Falun Gong practitioners are true, although some of the details are incorrect. The so-called underground Sujiatun Concentration Camp does exist. Organ harvesting is routine there. It is also a common practice to cremate dead or even living Falun Gong practitioners.
Ashes Given to Families Came from Animals or Other Bodies in the Crematorium
As many state regulations have stipulated, the top level of each provincial government has the authority to establish "recycling organizations" to process felons in the military zone under its jurisdiction. This practice is warranted by a legal document that the Chinese Communist Party's Central Military Commission established as early as 1962. This practice has never stopped to this day. According to the regulations in the document, death-penalty prisoners and felons may be processed according to the development needs of the state or of socialism. During the Great Cultural Revolution, the most extreme way to process these prisoners was to use their bodies for food. The second-most extreme way was to use them as slave labor for engineering or production work.
After a 1984 amendment, it became legal to harvest organs from felons. The police and judicial departments perform organ harvesting on living prisoners before cremating their bodies. Sometimes, they will injure the prisoners in a show execution before they perform organ harvesting on the injured prisoners. They then cremate their bodies.
Since 1992, such a practice has become public. Due to the development of many related businesses, human bodies have become profitable raw materials. Living human beings, as well as dead bodies, have become industrial raw materials.
Many crematoriums in China do not actually cremate the bodies after they receive them. Instead, these bodies are transferred elsewhere through secret tunnels. In many cases, the ashes given to the families of executed prisoners came from animals or from other people's bodies. Some of the bodies given to the families were even ancient Chinese people or victims of WWII. The actual bodies are sold at high prices to many different types of state-owned factories as raw materials for different products via many different channels. Nearly all the large crematoriums in China are engaged in such underground businesses.
The Hospital in Sujiatun Is Only One of 36 Similar Concentration Camps All Over China
The Chinese Communist Party has openly declared Falun Gong to be the "class enemies," turning Falun Gong practitioners into the target of its most severe suppression. In other words, the Chinese Communist Party has declared Falun Gong practitioners to be felons. The so-called hospitals in Sujiatun are but one of 36 similar concentration camps all over China. At present, the majority of detained Falun Gong practitioners are in prisons, forced labor camps, and detention centers. They are transferred elsewhere on a large scale only when special occasions call for it. Heilongjiang, Jilin, and Liaoning provinces imprison the largest number of Falun Gong practitioners. The concentration camp in Jiutai Area, Jilin Province is the 5th-largest camp imprisoning Falun Gong practitioners in China. This camp alone detains over 14,000 Falun Gong practitioners.
Jilin Concentration Camp, Codenamed 672-S, Imprisons over 120,000 People
Based on information I have access to, the largest concentration camp is in Jilin Province. This concentration camp, codenamed 672-S, imprisons over 120,000 people. A large number of Falun Gong practitioners, felons, and prisoners of conscience from all over China are there, but I do not know its address.
More Than 10,000 People Detained in Sujiatun Concentration Camp in Early 2005
In the so-called underground concentration camp of the Sujiatun District Hospital, there were indeed over 10,000 people kept there in early 2005, but at the present time, the number of detainees there is maintained at 600-750. Many detainees have been transferred to other concentration camps.
5,000 People Can Be Transferred in 24 hours by Covert Rail Routes
It takes no more than a day to transfer 5,000 people in a closed freight train on a special route. I have witnessed a specially dispatched freight train transferring over 7,000 people in one trip from Tianjin to the Jilin area. It ran at night, guarded by the Chinese army. Everyone on the train was handcuffed to specially designed handrails on top of the ceiling like rotisserie chickens.
You Won't Find Any Evidence Even if You Enter Sujiatun to Investigate
It is useless to enter Sujiatun trying to investigate the concentration camp because it is easy to transfer several thousand people.
CCP's Top Ranks Name Falun Gong Practitioners "Class Enemies," Useful Only to Generate Income
One must understand that based on the latest decisions by the Chinese Communist Party's top level: The Chinese Communist Party's Central Committee agreed to treat Falun Gong practitioners as "class enemies" and to handle them in any economically beneficial manner without having to report to higher authorities. In other words, Falun Gong practitioners, like many actual felons in China, are no longer regarded as human beings, but as raw materials for commercial products. They have become commodities. ......... .........................................
One way of looking at it is
One way of looking at it is that the United States is very deep in debt, between 9 to 10 trillion dollars. China has lent the U.S. a great deal of that debt and continues to lend us money to the tune of approximately 2 billion dollars per day.
Simply from that point of view it looks to me as though China is in much better shape, at least financially, than the U.S.
The U.S. would probably be in BIG trouble if China ever decided to no longer lend us money.
Does democracy actually work?
It will only do what it says on the tin when the likes of Ron Paul are truly elected. Democracy is a myth perpretrated by bankers.
'I always think of all you canvassors and precinct leaders and delegates at the front line and caucuses.
Good luck out there &Thank you. You're a gift.
China's economy
Don't forget outsourced US and European production in China. It contributes hugely to China's economy and accounts for a lot of 'Chinese' exports. Can you name one original Chinese product? I can't.
China is a prison country
China is a prison country . see 1 minute excerpt video http://www.youtube.com/wa... China comunist members are resigning by the millions Over 34,475,149 People Renounce the CCP
China arresting people to transplant their eye's for paying customers that are blind in one or two eyes. http://en.epochtimes.com/...
Actually the USofA w/ Liberty & Justice for All
has the largest percentage of its people behind bars. Look it up.
Have you been to China lately? They must be doing something right.
They are headed upward. USofA spiralling downward.
Taiwanizers Mainland-bashing Epoch Times is a tabloid rag about as credible as the National Enquirer. [ "Giant Cat Terrorizes Neighborhood" "Brittney Spears is Dick Cheney's Love Child", etc.]
Liberty for all the common people. Justice for all the Lackeys and Robber Barons!
China is awakened
the earth will tremble.
Dont worry about China too much. China wants peace. They really dont want to fight and they hate war.
It is stupid for us to meddle in their internal affairs which includes rogue state Taiwan.
Milton Friedman
Milton Friedman's belief was that if you start introducing capitalism into a tyrannical political system, that eventually the tyranny will break down and political freedom will result.
That's was theory behind the free market reforms in Chile , which Friedman's students were behind. And it worked. Chile was under a fascist dictatorship at the time, and now the dictatorship is gone and it's one of the most prosperous countries down there now.
As far as China being a "real concern,' I"m not sure what your concern is. If you're hoping their economy doesn't grow, that's not rational. It's good for the U.S. economy for the Chinese economy to grow. We need trading partners. We need the Chinese to become wealthy so they can do business with us. Right now, they can't afford much. If the Chinese economy went down, ours would be harmed in the process. For example, the U.S. manufactures a lot of machines for automation. China is a large buyer of those due to the economic advancement. We don't want that to stop.
a good china??
Tainted Products from China ...... Japan Confirms High Levels of Pesticide in Chinese Dumplings .... FDA Says Contaminant in Some Baxter Heparin
Wednesday, March 05, 2008 6:53:00 PM .... FDA Says Contaminant in Some Baxter Heparin
Wednesday, March 05, 2008 6:53:00 PM ........
Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:45:00 PM
Test results have confirmed that high levels of the pesticide Methamidophos were contained in dumplings from China, ......... http://en.epochtimes.com/... ....... As of 5:03 PM EST, 34,475,571 people have submitted statements withdrawing from the Chinese Communist Party or its affiliated organizations ......
...... 300 thousand people have watched this video about the Chinese people and what has happened to them. http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Retrospect
We had many of the same issues happen to our nation during our industrial revolution at the beginning of the century.
The fact that these issues are coming to light is the first step in China getting rid of the problems. It is market forces that reduce lead in products and that enforce environmental standards. If no one cares about contaminants in the products they buy, the manufacturers will produce products with contaminants.
China is growing up, and there will be some growing pains - we had them as well.
I see. Good points.
I see. Good points. However, China I imagine is a little different in that its got a freakin billion people there. It will be a lot harder to streamline and unify the behavior of the country, especially when it is on such a global stage. They have to contend with domestic transitions as well as foreign perception. It's a little different. Chile is slice of bread of South America. It's not on the global stage like China is. But if they do progress towards overrunning tyranny, I will be happy for them.
As far as my "concern," I guess if any "concern" it would from the notion that China's development is helping push up the price at the pump. The transition on a national scale towards a different power source for mobilization is not really on the radar until at least a couple of years from now. So we will be stuck with oil for sometime, which I'm not necessarily against. In other words, what do we do? Gas prices will seem to stay around 3 bucks. i mean my instinct is once Bush is out and Clinton or Obama are in, prices will drop to a certain point simply because of the geopolitical implications. (Yeah, I don't seem them as the same as Bush.)
Also, frankly, I still wanna be the guy with the biggest um ya know pecker in the room. Our best parts as a country is far better then anything else out there and I still want that to be the case in perception as well.
Globalization
Globalization involves specialization. Each country is comparatively better at doing something than another country.
For example, coffee beans CAN be grown in the United States, but they grow much better in Colombia. Colombia therefore has a comparative advantage over us in the production of quality coffee.
We've been ingrained with the idea of "Buy American" for such a long time, that we've forgotten the fact that maybe it is in the best interests of all if some products were not made in America.
The Japanese introduced vehicles that were just as safe as American cars, and more fuel efficient. US manufacturers struggled and finally made comparable models. The competition made US cars better. US strength has been in our massive capitalization (using machines instead of direct labor), innovation and entrepreneurship.
Someone else might have a bigger pecker, but what does it matter if you can't get it up.
As for oil, as fuel prices, alternative fuels will be rediscovered. I personally hope that fuel prices rise quite a bit. Massive market forces like $8/gal gas would create such a demand for alternative fuels that the world would finally find a way to break itself from oil dependence.
OK
But, you can't have tunnel vision with economics. China's growth is of course putting pressure on gas prices. But, at the same time, it could be allowing us to have more money to spend on gas by providing low cost products to us. So the net effect of their economic development could be neutral or positive for us. I don't think the global expansion of capitalism and growth of other countries' economies is something to be worried about. Trade is mutually beneficial, on the net. Government restricting markets is what we should be worried about.
As far as wanting to have the "biggest pecker," China doesn't even begin to come close to the size and productivity of the U.S. economy, so you can relax there.