 |
 |
Standoff emerges at polygamist ranch in Texas,,,(MUST BE another piece of property wanted for the trans texas corridor)
Posted April 6th, 2008 by doctor011
output
ELDORADO, Texas - Sect leaders at a polygamist compound in West Texas refused Saturday to let authorities search a temple for a teenage girl whose report of abuse led to the raid, and authorities said they were preparing "for the worst." WACO 2 ? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...
Bookmark/Search this post with:
Watch this
http://www.huffingtonpost...
Does LDS raids set new precident
for how government says you will practice religion?
I only say this because the supposed girl who called in to say she was raped hasn't appeared.
They did this to a guy in Washington State about 15 yrs ago only to find out it was a prank or a lie. He ended up suing the authorities for practically saying he was guilty until proven innocent.
Davy C Rockett
http://www.thelibertypost...
http://screamfreedom.blog...
http://liberty-central.bl...
Its been 4 days has big brother made its case
hear they found a page out of a medical book ,,,,about poison how to treat,,,,If it was not so vulgar it would be laughable.
Yeah, I have a poison control sticker on my fridge
I wonder if I will be investigated
With four children in my home, I like to know about treating poison ingestion, because kids get into the weirdest things. I guess that makes me a criminal, too.
Its not right
its not
On the Abrams Report (MSNBC)
On the Abrams Report (MSNBC) They are reporting that the sheriff is under fire because they had an informant in this compound for FOUR YEARS!! It took them four years and a phone call from somebody allegedly inside the group (instead of a report of a crime from their informant) for them to act?? Something stinks about that. (9:37 EST 4/10)
Why most suicide bombers are Muslim....
Ten Politically Incorrect Truths About Human Nature
Why most suicide bombers are Muslim, beautiful people have more daughters, humans are naturally polygamous, sexual harassment isn't sexist, and blonds are more attractive.
By: Alan S. Miller Ph.D., Satoshi Kanazawa Ph.D.
http://psychologytoday.co...
Not politcally correct.... but interesting...
2. Humans are naturally polygamous
3.Most women benefit from polygyny, while most men benefit from monogamy
4.Most suicide bombers are Muslim
The rest are surprising as well.....
By the way, I made it as an alt-Delegate in Texas... so did another of my friends... this was not reported in any newspaper because we are still stealth until the convention.
Polygamous societies
always fall apart due to increased male-on-male violence and rivalry.
Monogamy is an old agreement between men to share women equally. Monogamy is the bedrock of Western Civilization and brought a high degree of peace, population stability and the right conditions for the accumulation of capital. Without monogamy, the generation that wrote the Constitution would not have been so willing to live and let live.
If you think polygamy is just another form of personal liberty and that a male should be allowed to impregnate as many females as he wants, then you should be prepared to live in a society without human rights. Polygamy is what the animals do - might makes right.
America today is much less monogamous (divorce, out-of-wedlock birth, go-it-alone single mothers, selective breeding, etc.) and we are becoming a cesspool.
Sorry
Polygamous societies always fall apart due to increased male-on-male violence and rivalry.
Can you point out an instance please?
As a Native American, we seemed not to have that problem for.. oh... 10,000 years or so.
Our society fell apart with the introduction of monogamous Europeans...lol.
Agree
But we're in the minority here. If you disagree with polygamy, you are labeled rude and accused of telling others how to run their lives. Never mind that I feel the same way about their responses! I was happy to see your post.
Actually, that's not completely true
There are many polygamists societies all around the world. Many arabic nations allow polygamy, as do African nations. The excess males usually die through wars, or hunting. Polygamy was so common among the Mormons in the early days in part because of the difficulty of the pioneering life. If you look at islamic society, it also does not really interfere with the accumulation of wealth or capitalism. The main thing that seem to happen is that there becomes an entrenched class system.
The problem that you mention in america (its become a cesspool, with which I agree) I believe is more about the lack of commitment to family, rather than a soft polygamy. I blame the state for providing to much of a security blanket - they will take care of your elderly parents, your illigitimate kids, and your pregnant girlfriends. So why care.
I would never be a polygamist (too many women around all the time) but I don't think that family oriented commited polygamists are a danger to society (or to me) - as long as they support themselves.
Yes, men do die quicker in polygmous societies.
You just proved my point. And, it can be argued that Muslim countries are now more monogamous than we are. If you want to witness polygamy just visit any American city.
Are you for real?
So according to your comments, I gather that you feel the following two scenarios are practically synonymous:
Scenario One ("from any American city"):
A man has multiple girlfriends on whom he can call at anytime to provide sexual favors. There are even slang terms thrown around for these women, for whom he has absolutely no respect; they're just sources of sexual gratification for him. Sometimes, he impregnates them, then abandons them, and they either abort their children or they get welfare from the government. Such men then continue this process with other women who are willing to be used as objects, hoping they find themselves a good one in the bunch eventually. The girlfriends repeat the same process with multiple men over the years, eventually having a brood of children, all from different daddies, none of whom pay child support or have any active role in either the woman's or the children's lives. Some of these men are even married, leaving their wife at home, while she wonders what (or who) he's doing at any given time. These cheating husbands bring home STDs they share with the wife, before deciding that the wife and 2 kids are not nearly as exciting as the hot little blonde girl at work. Rather, rinse, repeat.
Scenario Two (from Mormon Fundamentalist communities, including the FLDS, and others):
Women willingly choose to share their husband with other women, and they have a big family where all the parents contribute in child rearing, financially, and by helping one another out. Divorce is very rare and abandonment virtually unheard of. Women take care of their sister-wives' children to allow said sister-wives to pursue education, work outside the home, travel, etc. The man's wives always know who he is sleeping with, as he does not do as many American men do and cheat on his wives with a mistress unknown to his family. Because of this, the polygamist wives never fear hubby bringing home an STD. They never fear he will abandon them for a new pretty young thing he met in a bar. They never fear their children will become fatherless because, like many american dads, he decides chasing after hot young things is more important than raising his children. The polygamist father is present for his children's birthdays, events, he plays sports with them, teaches them, gives them meaningful work around the home or family business or farm.
Now, CedarMill, do you really mean to tell me that both of these scenarios of "polygamy" are equivalent?
You forgot about the sons
of these polygamists. Do they emigrate to a monogamous country to find wives?
(The difference between your scenarios is that the latter will lead to organized conflict.)
UM
I doubt that either of my sons are going to emigrate to another country to find a wife. Thier girlfriends think thier parent's relationship ~cool~, actually...lol.
I also don't see either of them fighting each other to extinction to find a wife. To be honest, America is so full of losers like you that they can pretty much pick and choose. They are productive males that have a brain in thier heads. In reguards to your genetic theory on your other thread that you can no longer respond in, they are ahead of the race.
It all evens out
Some men, even from polygamous communities, don't want necessarily want more than one wife. Some women convert into the various fundamentalist churches. Some men marry outside the church. In over 150 years of Mormon fundamentalism there has been no uprising of males who can't find wives. Don't you think if this was a problem that it would have manifested itself by now?
So therefore your OPINION should be enforced on all others???
I am unaware of male-on-male violence among Mormon fundamentalists. And from what I know, a lot of females are converting TO the religion, so it must attract them for some reason.
The thing to remember here is that the Mormon fundamentalists are not out to convert the entire world to their religion. They absolutely do not advocate the practice of polygamy in the world at large. They do however see it as a tenet, a commandment from their God, to live according to his laws, and wish to be left alone to follow the dictates of the conscience to live their religion. And that is a freedom that any liberty-loving person should support.
If the FLDS or other Mormon fundamentalists were trying to tell the rest of the world how to live, that would be one thing. You, on the other hand are trying to tell others how to live, which is inconsistent with liberty and justice for all.
Your last point is completely ridiculous. The FLDS are not practicing divorce on a wide scale, they definitely don't practice out of wedlock births or even premarital sex, they don't advocate single motherhood, they don't advocate selective breeding. Instead, they believe that FAMILIES ARE ETERNAL and they want strong families, of loving parents and children. Their entire system is built around the FAMILY. Not any of the problems you describe.
They seemed to be doing just fine, until a few bad apples rose to the top of the heap, which is what is drawing all of this attention from the state. But the entire FLDS or any other group of Mormon fundamentalists (the FLDS are just one Mormon church) are not child abusers, not engaged in marrying teenagers, or otherwise doing anything weird.
If all you did was listen to the mainstream media, you might think this. But I, and several others on the DailyPaul, know better, for we know people within these groups, and we have seen them to have well-behaved, courteous, intelligent, children. We have seen how they have happy families and homes. But you are willing to forget about all of that just because you think it is your right to tell others how to live.
But, since you are into collectivism and telling other people how they should run their lives, I won't bother wasting much time responding to you.
Happy families...
This thread began because of the business going on at the ranch in Texas. If adults want polygamy, that should be their choice. However, what do we know about the children at this ranch? It is unconscionable to force a young girl entering puberty to begin breeding.
So true
No one should ever be forced or coerced. If that happened, then there should be ramifications for those involved in denying anyone their free will. Free agency is the name of the game, especially in Mormonism, which prizes the doctrine of free will. Anyone depriving another of free will is not a very good Mormon, let alone a very good person in general.
Monogamy
isn't about peering into your bedroom - that's how the Catholic Church got it wrong and created a backlash.
As for liberty and justice for all, are you prepared to let clones become citizens? Should scientists be allowed to create human/animal hybrids and ask that they become citizens? Should we give citizenship to anchor babies?
Creating children with multiple women is not an acceptable way to make new citizens.
Creating children with
Creating children with multiple women is not an acceptable way to make new citizens.
Says who? You? I don't happen to think it's ideal myself, but it's not something the government or the church needs to get involved with.
Agreed, Jen!
I find many lifestyle choices to be less than ideal, and I would never choose them. Some lifestyle choices I might even think are morally objectionable according to my personal moral code, based on my religion, my culture, and the way I was raised.
I myself am a monogamous heterosexual and always have been. But I would hate it if the government told me I *had* to be a certain way. No government should have that much authority. If we give them that much, where do we draw the line (see previous post of mine for other possible government regulations we could have)?
Absolutely, Alaskaron
Absolutely, Alaskaron ....
Obviously, I would never condone abuse or coercion of anybody, child or adult. That goes without saying. But beyond that, who are we to decide what is morally just or unjust? Keep the government out of my bedroom.
Fortunately
there is not an ancient tradition, backed up by scripture, for cloning, human/animal hybrids, or anchor babies.
However, 85% of world societies have or do practice polygamy, including many of the societies of our European forebears, Native Americans, and others including the more obvious and well-known such as Africans, Asians, and Middle Eastern societies, including historic Judaism.
Find me an ancient precedent for human cloning and then we'll chat some more.
Do you also believe the government should get to approve who you marry? You can apply to the government and hope they feel your choice is suitable? Maybe the government could just start arranging marriages for everyone, that way citizens are produced only in an "acceptable" way? Who would elect the U.S. Federal Marriage Czar, or would they be appointed? Should said marriage czar also regulate specifically which sexual acts married persons can engage in? Or the frequency thereof? Should said Marriage Czar also decide when, how many, or even if a couple should have children, that way we have only an acceptable number of new citizens?
Your statist tendencies scare me.
There is nothing wrong with promoting monogamous hetero relationships as your favorite sort, but you should not expect the government to do this. It is not their place. And as a free country, you must be prepared to realize that some people might not have the same preference you do, and you will have to learn to live with that. Otherwise, we would need not only a Federal Marriage Czar, but also an official State Religion and State-appointed Priests to keep everyone in line with your ideas of the only way to be "acceptable".
No, I mean "monogamy" in the original sense.
"No children with more than one person."
Two people who sleep together exclusively and don't want children is not really monogamy. It's a lifestyle.
You can do what you want in your own bedroom, so don't bring out that red herring.
The origional sense?
MONOGAMY - A marriage contracted between one man and one woman, in exclusion of all the rest of mankind; it is used in opposition to bigamy and polygamy. The state of having only one husband or one wife at one time.
It's a relationship.. it has nothing to do with children, so don't throw in that red herring.
Edited
Double post... had a mouse hiccup.. ;)
Elect Ron Paul
Violating our constitution has become standard procedure in Washington D.C. Burning live children is ""not legal"" under our constitution. http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Educating your own children the way you want or the way your religion wants (because you want them to) is legal under the constitution.
Why do we have incompetents or bad people in Washington D.C.??
Why do the people in Washington D.C. just continue to do more harm to this country and our freedom ..... election after .... election no matter who is in office ??
Answer http://www.youtube.com/wa...
I am starting to think they
want to have a spring blood sacrifice to their devil god. Maybe, I've watched to many Youtube this stuff is getting to me.
Its no surprise to me that...
they "couldnt find the actual young girl who called" Of course not, There was no young girl who called! Thats just the LIE/excuse they used to initiate this and take action. Truth is Lost! Lies rule every level of government and public service. Only elect sincere candidates to ANY level of office.
she is hiding
In the pile of Sadam's weapons of mass destruction.
with good old Osama?
Dr. Paul cured my apathy
LOL! Hilarious.
I guess we need half a million troops to go look for her, since all of the Texas Lawmen couldn't find her!
sad but true
sad but true.
------------------------------------------------
"RON PAUL SUPPORTER SINCE 1997"
RON PAUL 2008 / RE-ELECT 2012
Another good article, at a Texas Justice blog
http://gritsforbreakfast....
"Increasingly I'm coming to think that the case against the Eldorado polygamist compound may be a setup job. Certainly the warrants used to sweep into the compound and remove more than 400 children by force seem inadequate, and the church will ask a court today to quash them."
Good read.
Sorry for all the posts, but this one has really got my blood boiling.
AGREED
agreed
Texas Law Enforcement Named the Wrong Man in Warrants!
This whole thing is botched up from the beginning! They went in on false pretenses, naming the WRONG MAN in their search and arrest warrants. And we trust them to do ANYTHING right at all, when they don't even have a freakin clue who they are looking for?
FLDS *OPPONENTS* note that the man they are looking for, the husband of the 16 year old, IS ACTUALLY IN HIS 30s, not his 50s, as law enforcement claimed. Ooops! Not so sensational anymore, is it?????
OOOPPS!!!!!! See what happens when the state has too much power? They round up families, tear children from their parents, and all in the name of looking for a guy who's known to be in Arizona.
Oh isn't the police state WONDERFUL! I am SO glad they are always looking out for us!
Ron
Article from SLTrib.com begins here:
http://www.sltrib.com/por...
Texas authorities named the wrong man in search and arrest warrants used to enter the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado and begin questioning FLDS children, two opponents of the sect said Tuesday.
The warrant issued Thursday evening named 50-year-old Dale Barlow, alleging he had married and impregnated a 16-year-old girl. Officials, who later sought a second search warrant, have removed 419 children.
But Joni Holm, who has helped children leave the FLDS, said the teenager who called officials on March 29 and 30 and claimed she was abused is married to a different, younger man. The girl's husband is in his late 30s, is related to Dale Barlow, shares his surname and has a similar sounding first name, Holm said.
"I know they're looking into the wrong one," Holm said.
Tela Mange, a spokeswoman for the Texas Department of Public Safety, on Tuesday said police were continuing to serve warrants and attempt to locate "the person that we are looking for."
When asked if that person was still Dale Barlow, she said, "As far as I know."
But Flora Jessop, who left the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints at age 16 and now helps others do the same, also said the wrong man was named in the initial warrants.
Texas authorities have made no effort to apprehend Dale Barlow at his address in Colorado City, Ariz. He reported to his Arizona probation officer on Friday - less than 24 hours after the raid began - to tell the officer he was under investigation.
His probation officer has said Dale Barlow claimed to not know the teenager making the abuse accusations. Later Friday, Arizona authorities questioned him and searched his home.
The Salt Lake Tribune, which generally does not name alleged victims of sexual abuse, and other media outlets have not published the girl's name.
But Holm said the girl's identity, and the correct identity of her husband, is "common knowledge" in Colorado City, Ariz., and Hildale, Utah, where the sect has traditionally been based.
The Tribune is not naming the man identified by Holm as the girl's husband because he has not been named as a suspect or in court filings.
Holm, who is married to a former FLDS member, said she has spoken with people who know the teenager. She thinks Texas officials confused the two Barlows.
She believes it is possible the teenager did not know her husband's correct age and told authorities he is about 50. Also, she noted, Dale Barlow has a 2007 conviction in Arizona for criminal charges related to marrying and impregnating a different 16-year-old girl, which may have contributed to confusion.
The first warrant identified Dale Barlow by name and his birth date. The copy on file in court does not list the name of the investigator who petitioned for it.
A second and more expanded warrant, signed Sunday night, was based on observations and evidence found by law enforcement and child services workers inside the compound, according to court documents.
ncarlisle@sltrib.com
---
* BROOKE ADAMS contributed to this report.
i knew it
oh man, i knew it would turn out something like this.
"First they came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."
- Pastor Martin Niemoeller -
------------------------------------------------
"RON PAUL SUPPORTER SINCE 1997"
RON PAUL 2008 / RE-ELECT 2012
Do these sound like freaks and abusers to you?
http://blogs.sltrib.com/p...
The people are singing
The Dallas Morning News spoke to an unnamed law officer who was at YFZ Ranch as investigators swept the compound owned by the FLDS Sect.
The source described women being loaded onto buses that carried them away from the ranch. They sang, the newspaper said, to calm their children. The song? ''Sweet Spirit of Prayer.''
It's original title is ''Sweet Hour of Prayer'' and its hymn used by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You can hear it here .
As he did with many LDS songs, Warren Jeffs changes the title and some verses of the song to ''Sweet Spirit of Prayer.''
Why? Because prayer shouldn't be confined to an hour, an FLDS woman told me this morning.
The woman's family was able to speak to a brother at the YFZ Ranch in the early days of the raid. The brother told his family that as law officers entered their home, his children began to sing the ''songs of Zion'' -- not a particular song, but various hymns.
By singing, the people are making a statement. Members of this sect were forewarned in 1953 that Arizona authorities planned to raid their community, then known as Short Creek. It lies at the Utah/Arizona border and today is known as Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz. They set up lookouts on Berry Knoll, who ignited dynamite sticks to announce a long line of vehicles making its way to the community at 4 a.m. on July 26.
The people gathered around a flag pole at the schoolhouse and they sang ''God Bless America'' as officers arrived.
The woman spotted another, younger brother in one of our photos of a group of teens playing soccer at Fort Concho. He is 17, she said, and is married to a woman his own age. They have one child and she is due to give birth in August.
In a brief phone call made to family in the past few days, her brother began to cry. He said he has seen his wife across the grassy field at the compound but hasn't been able to speak with her.
= =
"Texas Law Enforcement: Tearing Apart Families Since 2008"
This is Nothing
BUT CONTROL. Do you think that they care about children being abused? NO. They care about getting to use force and the big show of arms they get to put on. Look at Waco, THEY SAID that children were being sexually molested and that people were being held against thier will inside, well what happened? THEY KILLED THE KIDS and almost EVERYBODY ELSE inside the compound. They KILLED INNOCENT WOMEN AND CHILDREN. They brought TANKS and ran over peoples vehicles and killed thier livestock in AMERICA !!!! HOME OF THE FREE !!! Gee that would really make me want to come out and surrender peacefully huh? See, they dont want people living free and they sure dont want a group of people large enough to fight back against tyranny. Welcome to nazi land. It would have been so much easier to just send some female case workers in to talk to the children and teenage girls? Where the hell is this supposed girl who called in? This is such BS. Just a little reminder for all us slaves, dont get outta line or live outside the norm or big brother will come and get you.
HOW WE CAN HELP! This is great. Get your kids involved too!
Some really nice people are working to help out in this case. Anyone who can, should attempt to get involved. This is a really easy way we can show support for some people whose rights are being violated. Let's show them that the "outside world" is not all opposed to them, that there are people who CARE and who will not stand idly by and watch civil rights abuses without acting!
Below is a letter I received just a few minutes ago:
= = = =
Dear Friends,
I'm sure many of you are aware of the current situation in Texas where 416 children have been removed from their homes and put into state custody. This has caused many great concern as we can imagine the fear and trauma these children and families must be experiencing. Many have asked, "What can we do?" We have some ideas and are asking for your help.
The Principle Voices Coalition is an organization committed to educate the public of what polygamy is and is not, committed to advocate for the polygamous communities and families in need of help, and committed to the welfare of our children and future generations. In response to the current situation, we have organize action in four different areas. 1) Legal 2) Media/PR 3) Political, and last but not least 4) Humanitarian efforts.
We want to make it very clear that we DO NOT support or condone underage marriages. We DO NOT condone child abuse in any form. And yet, we are very concerned about the welfare of these families and whether or not due process was followed to ensure them their constitutional rights. It is these areas we are focusing our efforts.
Here is where you can really make an immediate difference. We would like to send letters of encouragement and support to the women and children in Texas, letting them know that people care about them and are praying for them. We would like to have 2000 letters of support ready to send down, along with care packages, ready by FRIDAY (April 11) when a group of coalition members will travel down to Texas to help with the situation.
You and your children both can write letters! Here's an example to help you get started...
Dear Friend, I am 11 years old and am writing to let you know that our family is thinking about you and praying for you. I'm sure the last few days haven't been the best ever for you -- but I wanted to let you know that a lot of people care, including me. My name is Mercy. My favorite color is green, and I like to play the piano. My favorite subject in school is spelling. What is your favorite color? I hope you will write back. Sincerely, (name and address)
Please fold the letter and on the outside write "11 year old girl", "mother", "5 year old boy" or whatever age/gender the letter is addressed to. If you are able, please include a self addressed stamped envelope for them to reply. We would also like to include notepads and writing utensils. If you are able to include them, we would really appreciate it. However, the letters are the most important thing, and so we ask that you take some time today to write them and get them to the nearest coalition member so that we can have them in time to deliver on Friday.
Along with the letters, we would like to deliver care packages. We are asking for donations for the care packages. Small donations add up, even $5 makes a difference, and larger donations are always welcome too. If you have some great items to include that will be culturally sensitive, we appreciate your input.
ANOTHER IMPORTANT WAY YOU CAN HELP is to share this information with others. Spread the word, and lets overwhelm them with love and support during this time.
There are many additional ways to help, including...
1) Contact your legislators and congressmen and let them know your concern over the situation. You can find contact information by going to www.utah.gov/government/l... and also www.utah.gov/government/c...
2) If you are willing to talk with the media, please contact Joe Darger at 801-641-9788 or Mary Batchelor at 801-580-1999
3) If you are willing to help with a "phone tree" to quickly spread information, contact Rachel Jessop at 801-446-1381
4) If you are interested in how you can make a difference in our political and legal efforts and if you would like to be involved in future efforts in any way, contact Joe at 801-641-9788
THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP AND SUPPORT!
Coalition Committee Members
Independents:
Mary Batchelor 801-580-1999
Joe Darger 801-641-9788
Val Darger 801-250-0719
Anne Wilde 801-558-9434
Christine Brown 801-891-9802
Rachel Jessop 801-446-1381
David Dye 801-228-8512
Centennial Park: Linda Chatwin 550-5076
Colorado City: Ross/Lori Chatwin 435-467-8039
Nielsen/Naylor/Blackmore: Steve Nielsen 809-7186
Davis County Coop: Heidi Foster 801-637-1805 or Carlene Cannon 801-792-7421
just remember all the lies
just remember all the lies the government told about david koresh! don't beleive anything you here from law enforcement or the government!
as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD
Interesting comment from another site
This was posted in the forums of the SLTrib.com site. I think it is an excellent piece, worth consideration. I cannot believe that Ron Paul supporters are so opposed to personal liberty just because they find the subject of that liberty personally objectionable. We should be rallying behind the oppressed, whomever they may be, because majority (mob) rule can only be bad for us all, for we are ALL part of some minority or another.
Anyway, here's the post from SLtrib.com:
peterthomas: 4/8/2008 6:23:00 PM -2
Are your children safe from being seized by the
government?
Honestly, think about it. There has been a massive
raid by Texas government officials upon a religious
group called the FLDS (Fundamentalist Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter Day Saints). This raid is all based
entirely on an *unverified* phone call claiming abuse
of an individual on the YFZ Ranch. Upon this single
*unverified* phone call concerning 1 person, the
government has gone in and with *no evidence
whatsoever* they have seized over 400 women and
children and immediately torn them from their homes
and turned custody over to the state *before anything
was proven*. I thought that in America we are innocent
until proven guilty? They have stripped them of all
their rights including taking away their cell phones
and shutting off all forms of communications for them
to get help. This is all in the name of "protecting
the children", but read further.
The women and children did not want to leave the
ranch. The women and children that were so-called
"rescued" are now being held against their will by the
state, and do not appear to appreciate the state
officials tearing them from their homes. The media and
officials are hiding the fact that the women and
children do not like the so-called "government rescue"
at all. They were forced into being "rescued".
Here are some quotes from a Texas woman (not FLDS)
who was helping the state take care of the women and
children:
"The children were extremely well behaved. Everyone
was polite. Everyone was nice, but they wanted to go
home. None of the girls at any age had a blemish on
their face..." Did you hear that, they wanted to go
home! There are no signs of any abuse in any of the
400 women and children whatsoever. Do you think you
could randomly choose 400 women and children from
homes within the US anywhere and find no blemishes of
any kind on any of them? To me, this indicates that
the FLDS men take extremely good care of the women and
children. The quotes named are in videos recorded on
CNN.
When officials arrived to take away the children,
the officers were heavily armed, but the FLDS carried
no weapons. Their temple is sacred, but the officials
forced their way into the temple and stole sacred
church records and things that are extremely holy and
sacred to the FLDS. Many news reporters have stated
that the FLDS have never been violent at all to them.
If that is the case, why do they accuse them of being
abusive people?
This is religious persecution by government and is
targeted directly at the FLDS faith. Note: the buses
that they hauled the women and children away in were
labeled "First Baptist Church"...this is disturbing.
I did a little research and found some very
interesting information. At the time the FLDS group
moved into Texas, their marriage practices, however
odd and contrary to other religions, were still more
or less within the bounds of Texas law. In September,
2005, a couple years following their move into the
state, the Texas legislature passed a law modifying
the marriage code. See
http://www.legis.state.tx...
Have a good look at article 4 of this amendment.
Nearly all the modifications attack directly at the
FLDS faith. Are these people really law breakers, or
has the state of Texas violated the first amendment in
enacting a law specifically against their religion?
"First Amendment: Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging
the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right
of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition
the government for a redress of grievances."
The polygamous hate groups will parade a few heart
breaking stories to the media to justify persecuting
polygamous groups. Remember, there are heart breaking
stories in monogamy, and in every other religion
committing sex crimes. Shall we brand as bad the whole
because of a single bad incident?
Think about it honestly. If you want to know what
real abuse is, go search on any internet video site,
like MSN Video, YouTube, etc. and type "teen beating".
Then I ask you, do the pictures and videos in those
"teen beating" videos compare in any way to the
pictures of the FLDS women and children? NO! They
found no blemishes on *any* of the 400 FLDS women and
children at all.
It does not matter who you are, or what religion
you are part of, stand up for your rights and freedom!
Don't just give in to the lies being broadcast about
these things, if you do, your rights are at stake! If
you want the truth, earnestly seek and ye shall find.
With government abuse like this, you and your children
are not safe!
------------------------------------
It almost sounds as if the
It almost sounds as if the women and children were kidnapped by whatever law enforcement took them away.
It's even more interesting that US military over in Iraq stay away from the mosques but law enforcement inside of the US are willing to raid churches on our own soil...
yeah
but what about the rights of these children.
You missed the part where it said there were no signs of abuse?
n/m
No abuse?
What about young girls having babies with men old enough to be their grandfather/great-grandfather. Might not be abuse to you but it is to me.
The legal age of marriage in Texas is 16
In Utah until just last year, it was 14.
They were obeying the law.
Now maybe you don't like that law, but the fact is they were obeying the law with respect to marriageable age.
And, as it turns out, the young woman's husband is only in his 30s.
Just thinking of people I know from my neighborhood, workplace, and other random acquaintances, I can think of half a dozen women or more who are married to or life partners with a man who is more than old enough to be their father, and about three who are married to or life-partners with men old enough to be their grandfathers (by that, I mean at least 32 years older). As it turns out, I know plenty people in my town in Alaska married to older men, way older than this young woman's husband is to her.
Should there be a law against this? Would that not be discriminatory?
I agree that is sickening,
I agree that is sickening, but is it illegal? I don't know the answer to that question myself. If what they are doing is not illegal then either the law should be changed or they should be left alone.
well put
The news blackout,,,,,,is letting people print this tripe and not the truth . I am my brothers keeper,,,,,,,,,,,if its not me who will stand up !!!!!! Nobody has to draw the line ,,,,,,FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTION AND OBAY THE LAWS thats all that is nessasary. There are provisions to take care of child endargerment . And this is not it