Cherokee Vote
Posted April 20th, 2008 by Devon_Saunders
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I was requested to post this for some asking... questions about the Native American voters, specifically Cherokee.
First off, I can't really get into a history lesson in this post... it'd take another forum to fill. For quick reference, here is a listing of RECOGNIZED tribes...
The first rule of thumb in approaching Native American cultures is that you're dealing with a near infinity of cultures that are as diverse from one another as the remainder of human cultures. One cannot possibly hope to even come close to understanding the world view of even a small fraction of these cultures, so you must keep on your guard that you not treat any Native American culture or any Native American language as applicable to all other Native American cultures.
The number of Native American languages still being spoken numbers around 2000, of which two hundred or so are spoken in North America, 300-400 are spoken in Central America, and a mind-numbing 1400-1500 are still spoken in South America. No-one is smart enough even to understand the rudiments of a representative sample of these languages!
This is why I'm so not going to get into it, or the history of the Native Americans and other Americans. Another reason is the bias issue. Think about it this way... as Ron Paul supporters, you have seen at least 6 months of what the media can do to someone. We've had the same bias going for 500 years or so, since the Spaniards.
I was requested to post specifically on talking to a Cherokee about Ron Paul. Now, I live in Cherokee Territory and have close ties there, have elected officials there in the family, etc.. so I feel I can respond to the question with a little bit of knowledge. Keep in mind that this is for a Cherokee that is at least a little culturally active... votes in our elections at least, etc.
First off, they need to be interested in American politics in the first place. We are a sovereign nation, after all.. so technically we are not a part of the US, except where bound by treaty to be so. So there is a smaller portion that will not give a rat's @ss about what America is doing... in fact, they kinda hope y'all kill each other off so we can get back to what we were doing. Let's get to the larger portion.
FACT: I have never personally met, heard of, even considered the thought that a Cherokee would vote for McCain, unless they are totally cut off from thier heritage. McCain, because of his involvement in the Bureau of Indian Affairs is considered Machtando... loosly translated, the foe, or a devil. So no worries about that...lol.
Obama? Nope... we can smell BS a mile off.
Hillary is an odd problem, however. One of the best Chiefs the Cherokee has had in a long time was a woman.. Wilma Mankiller.
So some are leaning that way because of the gender vote.
In reality, I talk to a WHOLE lot of Native Americans in a lot of tribes.. I am culturally active. I'd go with a rough estimate of 80%ish that are Ron Paul supporters. There are roughly 3 million of us in the US of A.
So, with this background, your pros and cons of talking about Ron Paul to a Cherokee...
Keep away from health care. It is an industry to the Cherokee.. it is also Federally funded.
Push gambling rights, of course.. it accounted for 20% or so of our $350,000,000 budget last year.
Constitution Constitution Constitution... any Native American in ANY Tribe that has dealt with Indian politics at all knows more about the American Constitution than most Americans.. same with Robert's Rules. Most Tribes have thier own constitution.. it is usually tied to the American Constitution and Robert's Rules. To do anything political in Indian politics, you must know both Constitutions and Robert's rules front and back.. becuase you will be challenged in a heartbeat on either three. Civil liberties are a HUGE issues with the Cherokee.
The Economy? Big Yes. Talk about the Fed and the IRS? Jump on it... the Cherokee have not trusted the government since its inception, so any thoughts that it would do bad things are expected. Trail of Tears comes to mind here as a quick example.
Hot Buttons.. read up on the Lakota. Read up on the Delaware Tribe and the Cherokee... that has been in Supreme court for over 100 years and is still ongoing. The Cherokee have been bringing cases to the US Supreme Court for almost 200 years.
And of course know your subject matter....
It was stated on another thread that someone was interested in learning the Cherokee language....
You can start there, but like all things online, it's a lot better to find someone that speaks it as well. Which usually means going to Cherokee Territory... ;)
Hope this post helped on the Cherokee Question.
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All people should have unalienable rights.
Just for everyone's information it is the U.S. government that restricts Native American tribes from establishing rules for who may become recognized as a member. Although tribes can set their own standards. Many of us prefer not to be part of a tribe because in truth we become tagged property of the U.S. government just like those outside of the tribe.
to all those who are NATIVE AMERICAN AND HAVE TIES TO...
your reservations ....if you know of anyone who is Native American that might be able to be convinced to become a delegate for Ron Paul please post here... The Native Americans are a very powerful and truthful people...they have a very strong will, and these are the type of people we need as delegates.
HERE ARE THE REMAINING STATES(see below)-----look over you contact lists ...who do you know that might be able to become convinced to run as a delegate for their state....If you need help in convincing them or presenting a case to them for this please post or email me at contact@coasttocoastmoneybomb.com
I may be able to assist you in presenting the case as to why they should go for it...
May 6 - Indiana--57 open,
North Carolina--69(semi-open)
May 13 - Nebraska--33,
West Virginia--30
May 20 - Kentucky--45 closed,
Oregon--30 closed
May 27 - Idaho--32 open
June 3 - Montana--25 close/caucus,
New Mexico--32 closed
South Dakota--27 closed
My tribe doesn't recognize me.
I don't have enough "pure blood" and I might try to steal some of their government cheese.
My ancestors would be disgusted.
___________
Lisa C.
www.women4ronpaul.com
do you have less than 1/8 th?
of your tribes blood? I think that is the federal amount you need in order to be part of the tribe legally...
...any way ... do you have contacts or do you know of anyone that has a bit of clout in any tribe? (I'm sure you are either a delegate or for some reason it didn't happen) If so what state from above are they located in?
That is the problem -- government.
I am a direct female descendant of a Cherokee woman. I want nothing from the tribe or the government. To hell with their blood quantum. My female line has been Cherokee longer than it has had any "white blood". I know who/what I am and so do my grandmothers.
___________
Lisa C.
www.women4ronpaul.com
this means your 1/2 cherokee, and your tribe wont recognize you?
WOW.... thats rough. Do you know of anyone in any of the states above that might want to become a delegate? or that would be worth the push on convincing them to become a delegate.... (or even a precinct leader at this point)
sometimes when you go for a leader and show them the value of this ....they can/will persuade many nationwide to follow....and more important vote for ROB PAUL
is there no one????
There are millions of NA in America.... there must be at least one person on the site, that know someone.....
bump
any comments??
bump... these type posts are
bump... these type posts are so important! thanks
Seeing the phrase
Seeing the phrase 'the Cherokee Vote' alone is worth it. I have never seen that phrase before in my life.
"I am culturally active. I'd go with a rough estimate of 80%ish that are Ron Paul supporters. There are roughly 3 million of us in the US of A."
That is GOOD news. Good luck and thanks.
About the gambling..
You do realize that if gambling were simply legalized, then the tribes lose their major advantage in that market, right?
Now, they'd be very well positioned to expand their operations, but there will be those who are fine with the status quo.
-jcr
That has been brought up in discussion here in the Territory..
Everyone feels that any loss made in casino profits will be more than offset in gains in civil liberties issues.
For instance, there was a law passed in 1949 that does not allow Native Americans to gather in any significant numbers with alcohol and weapons present, on public or PRIVATE property.
We now call it 49ing.. it is the REAL activities that happen when you attend a powwow and the public goes home. Hand gambling, campfire dances (call it our version of the dating game), etc. This is not technically legal now. With the exception of alcohol being there, this is a part of our culture.
There are plenty of other examples.. that was just the first one that came to mind.
devon....can you or have you done any public speaking at your ..
tribe. or council meetings, etc..on any topics??The reason I ask is that if you have an audience that will/can listen to you....do you think you have the ability to motivate people to come out strong for voting for Ron Paul??
I KNOW most if not all either don't participate in politics, or if they do they probably hate mccain...(if they don't they would if they read this article see link)
http://www.acsa2000.net/c...
IF YOU COULD SPEAK, AT ANY LARGE GATHERING BEFORE YOUR PRIMARY OR THE PRIMARY IN ANY OF THESE REMAINING STATES YOU MIGHT GET YOUR LOCAL NEWSPAPER TO WRITE AN ARTICLE ON IT....thereby generating some free press.....I don't know exactly what state your in, but I assume its in or around A reservation......
If you online please let me know...
I think your heart and mind are in this movement to the end.....
Pros and Cons
This is true, but weigh that against the respect Ron Paul demonstrates for their inalienable rights, and I think the benefits well outweigh that argument, especially since any change there will come from Congress, not the President.
IMissLiberty
This is perfectly good information for what I am seeking! thanks
I do have one question for you. Is there some type of newspaper,magazine, newsletter or website. that communicates to all the tribes? If some one were to run ads in a central type paper that would reach all of them (as they are spread out) how could you do that? Is it just better to advertise in each local paper?
Just wondering if you know
A lot use this...
http://www.nativetimes.co...
Most tribes will have thier own newspaper or website as well, of course.
Want to check out Native American music? Gathering of Nations is online...
http://www.gatheringofnat...
It is also a decent way to spread the word.
Very informative post
but I am wondering why some of the tribes here in California that have casinos on their reservations are not listed. Some would be the Chumash, Pala, Rincon. Also, there is the La Jolla, no casino. What is the determining factor of recognition? Also, although the revenue is staggering from the casinos, do alot of the tribes resist the negative element that comes with it. When I travel through these reservation areas I see the same level of poverty that was there before, and wonder if like everything else there is corruption as to who is benefiting from these funds. If you are a resident on a reservation are you totally sovereign from all federal and state laws? I know these are general questions not to do with your tribe, but am curious, and would love to understand more.
Bump
Bump
You've hit a sore topic, but I'll go there..;)
There are unrecognized tribes... a ton of them. Some are legitimate tribes.. most are not. Some ~Tribes~ are being legally defined in California as disenfranchised Native Americans from other tribes that have gotten together.. I believe one in California boasts 4 members. Then there are the scammers. There are communities of non Native Americans that get together and push for Native American rights. They also get together for the sole purpose of making money...lol.
There are ~Native American~ tribes in Pennsylvania for instance that have no Indian blood at all... most are Dutch. However, they claim a shaman that can cure your ills, they have thier own religion, etc. They push for casino and taxation rights. It's kinda a mess.
Casinos are of course a means of making money, but they are not the only way. We promote Cherokee businesses, federal contracts... there is a whole section of the Cherokee that work grants, for instance. We also have oil money. If there is a major road over Indian Territory, you can almost bet that it is a turnpike.. ;)
The reservation issue... if you live on a reservation that belongs to a Tribe with a proper constitution, you are exempt from American law while on the reservation. They have thier own police force, jail, legal system, etc. The Civilized Tribes have thier own intertribal Supreme Court. Different, is it not? Keep in mind, most Tribal constitutions plainly state that thier constitution does not override the US constitution.... but we do not abide by the bill of rights on some reservations. We have our own.
And of course there are other rules that do not apply to certain Tribes. Hopi and I beleive Comanche are allowed to raise and harvest peyote anywhere.. not just on the reservations. The list goes on.. ;)
Thanks Devon
This is a whole lot more complex than I thought. To add to it there is one tribe, the Chumash that are fighting to anex more land to their reservation for the purpose expanding casinos. Well, anyway, if things don't get turned around maybe a tribe will adopt us, so we can be sovereign too, outside of our current corrupt government. I can only imagine what the majority of Native Americans think about the Real ID.
It actually gets more complex...
Tribes are also competing for casino rights. Building a casino is big business.. one Tribe will get bribes, kickbacks, political favors, etc, etc,etc if it is thought that they have a better chance of getting the right. Other casino builders then approach an opposing Tribe and do the same thing.
While this is all going on, the opposing Tribes usually have grudges against each other that extend back hundreds of years.
For instance, the Delaware Tribe is currently part of the Cherokee Tribe, for now, based on the latest court ruling. They were thier own nation 6 years ago. The Delaware have been fighting this for I think 160 years in the US court system.
We have our own corrupt politicians as well, but we usually deal with it better.. possibly because the sociopolitical structure is smaller. The Apache, for instance, didn't like one of thier Chiefs for screwing them over on a land deal. So they shot him and held an election. This wasn't something that happened in the wild west.. it was in the 60's.
It gets involved, to say the least.. ;)
Thanks for posting
very informative. My sister-inlaw found out a few years ago that she is part Native American from a tribe in Canada, Melmac (sp) I think she said. She goes to pow wows ,dances and makes dream catchers. I think it has been very good for her she seems very happy. Peace
I'm all about a good powwow.
Ask her about 49ing. See if she answers... ~chuckle~
Thanks Devon, I am sure you put some time
on that. I think I will also give her the links to the language too, as she was the one who wanted to learn the language. I will see her Wednesday, and I will let you know how it went. Now, I am going to tell my cousin, who is recently turned to Ron Paul (that took some doing), who has quite a few Lakota friends and a Blackfoot friend,about these people coming to Ron Paul too. Is there any links or non internet places for these people to hear about it from their own people? Oh, by the way, very off topic, you said you were Hopi, and I have been growing Hope Blue corn for years, and save the seed, because we are in a drought here, and have only water with a generator, so I figured it would do better, and it does. But I have been trying to find Hopi blue grey squash seeds. Any idea where I can find them? A few people grow it from some magazines I get, but their seed is always gone immediately. I figured the Hopi may have some for sale. Well , thanks again.
Glad I could help...
First off, Native American communication... yes, there are some that blog and such, but the lifeblood of the Tribes is our own meetings, formal and informal. The most information passed on is of course at powwows.. ;) Yes, we still have them all over the country every year.
http://www.powwows.com/
Is a good place to find the major ones.
My grandmother of all people has pale grey... I've no idea about blue grey ones... but will certainly ask!
Thanks, I will pass that info on
and it is pale grey I am looking for.
OK....
Gave Granny a call.. she is sending me a care package of pale grey squash, purple string bean and pink corn seeds. I'll give you a holler when they come in.
No charge on this one as we want our colors growing everywhere.. ;)
Oh, thank you so much.
Have been getting my Three sisters squash patch ready this week. I put in the word to my customer, and gave her the websites, she was excited, but too busy to discuss Ron Paul, but I am seeing her next week for a while, discussing the job I am doing for her, so I am bringing info about Ron Paul for her.